Babylons Dread gets all the credit for this thread…or the blame. 
In descending order, off the top of my addled brain , the five worst books I ever bought.
Chosen But Free : Norm Geisler
When Dave Hunt writes a book full of half truths and out of context quotes, many aren't surprised.
When a real theologian with the credentials of Norm Geisler does so, we are.
Geisler took it upon himself to redefine 500 year old theological terms in an effort to try to make his case against reformed theology.
The result was a book that caused confusion among many and much consternation among his peers.
Alan Kurschner commented; Geisler’s Chosen But Free is a thoroughly inept work with myriads of straw men, vacuous assumptions, superficial–if any–interaction with Reformed works, muddled terminology, and eisegesis—all of which are documented in The Potter’s Freedom.
The good news is that James White wrote a great response to this that is a very helpful book, the aforementioned Potters Freedom.
Next, another shot across my theological bow that missed badly …
The Five Points of Calvinism : George Bryson
If you want to know what kind of grasp Bryson has on the subject watch his debate with James White on YouTube.
I'd move to Russia too.
George won't debate now and it would be nice if he'd do some real research before his next epistle.
Sadly, this misrepresentation of Reformed theology is widely read and accepted by many of Bryson's CC peers.
Just when I thought there was bottom to bad theology came this classic…
Classically awful…
What Love Is This?
A little more than three months before writing this half witted assault on Calvinism, Hunt told James White that he had never read any of the Reformers.
Never one to let facts or research get in the way of a smear campaign, Hunt published anyway. complete with endorsements from Chuck Smith and Tim LaHaye.
Here's the fount from which much evangelical sewage flows…
Systematic Theology: Charles Finney
The rape of evangelical doctrine and practice.
Despite this, he is a hero of the faith to many today.
Far from being a hero, he was a heretic.
and the worst book of all time…
Drum roll please…
New Age Bible Versions: Gail Riplinger
The grandmother of all the wacky, weird, smear jobs to follow from the "discernment ministries".
Honorable mention goes to Vance's "Dark Side of Calvinism", anything by Hal Lindsey and the "Left Behind" series.
Your turn…
From stirring the pot to jumping straight into the flame.
I would have to agree with you on all accounts, and also state that at one time, I wanted to be the second coming of Finney.
A great awakening comes to anyone who takes the time to compare Finney’s views to those of Immanuel Kant’s. You’d almost think they were the same people!
Christian Audio.com has an audio of the Augsburg, Westminster, and Heidelberg Confessions for free this month if its any consolation, and itunes has Concordia Seminary courses available now too.
1. Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend: This book was prominently on display in Christendom, a top seller and highly recommended among many Christian groups. It features not a single mention of the Holy Spirit in its 260 pages and refers to Paul’s listing of the Fruit of the Spirit in Gal. 5 as “the fruits of self-control”. Quite an aversion to the Holy Spirit for a “Christian” book. Bible context was used more sparingly than soap by employees before they return to work at Fridays. (’Waiter, there’s a fly in my soup!” Waiter: “He’s not alone.”)
2. The Joy Of Fellowship by Dwight Pentecost: His laughably bad conclusions on ‘a sin that leads unto death’ did however lead me to write a screenplay called “Terminal Grace”, in which I propose Arnold Schwarzenegger plays the Holy Spirit, hunting down and killing the Lord’s Chosen before the can commit a REALLY bad sin.
3. Chosen But Free, Geisler: His amalgamation of beliefs is a cop out to both sides, an all around sell out, aiming at everything and hitting nothing. I can’t believe Ravi Zacharias didn’t smack his friend Norm upside the noggin for the very faulty logic and procedure. I felt like Chevy Chase’s family arriving at a closed “Wally World”; disappointment, rage, then sadness, because I read that whole thing and I can never get that time back.
4. This one gets an asterisk because it has use, but I threw it many, many times and yelled at the book, though the book maintained a fine Christian witness and never yelled back at me: The King James Only Controversy by White. I’m more of a ‘give the Word meaning guy’, and having worked with many, many folks with staggering reading and comprehension issues, so I found several of White’s conclusions and decrees laughable, offensive and Papal.
“Forsooth, thou hast forsaken the glorious ministrations amongst thy palpitations and furies! Accursed, I am, and woe.” Aw shut it. I’ll try and stay downwind while you burn children’s pop-up Bibles, White.
I only got four, I’m sure there’s more, but these make my eyes twitch like Chief Inspector Dreyfuss.
Hey..what’s with this add that pops up on the right here about Herbert W. Armstrong …now there’s a theologian
Rob,
See, I knew this would be fun…
“Boundaries”, or more so the principles behind it, saved my life.
I won’t get into the gory details, but I thank God for it.
I think “The King James Only Controversy” is a classic…it’s become a standard textbook now in a lot of schools.
Why did you hate it?
linnea.
I am not sure I ever read a bad Christian book.
But just to be difficult, I will list the 10 most life-changing books I have ever read, all but one hot off the Calvary Chapel blacklist.
The Ultimate Intention
The Release of the Spirit
The Spiritual Man
Ask For the Ancient Paths
The Cloud of Unknowing
Little Flowers
The Throne Room Company
There Were Two Trees in the Garden
The Final Quest
Christian Theology (Millard Erickson)
Perhaps someone would like to list the 10 most life-changing medications they have been prescribed (also perhaps from the CC blacklist).
Woe unto you, blacklisters, because not only do you not enter in yourselves, but you prevent others….
Spink,
We’ll do the five best next …
I’ve never read a single one on your list, but that doesn’t surprise me.
Closest candidate for a bad Christian book:
Woran man sich halten kann
by Hans Kung
I am kinda with Knarfil Spink (is that you grendal?)
I don’t know if I read any bad one (I don’t know if I have read any bad non christian books) I have many that I put down before I was half way done.
One that would come close would be the first edition of John MacArthur’s ‘The Gospel According to Jesus’
MLD,
Why for?
I really liked that book…
Michael,
The 1st edition turned out to be an off the cuff response to Zane Hodges and the group. MacArthur came off like a Pharisee. It was a guide book to works righteousness.
The guys at The White Horse Inn (especially Michael Horton) got a hold of him and helped him to rewrite it.
Michael,
One weakness that Johnny Mac does have (and I do like his materials) is that he really has a confusion in separating Justification and Sanctification - usually us Lutherans are accused of this, but especially in his 1st edition.
MLD,
I think that is a valid criticism of Jonny Mac as well some other Reformed writers.
Luther is so radical on this point…and so right.
Although I used to purchase everything MacArthur wrote, I stopped because I feel MacArthur talks about grace but lacks the ability to show it. Great speaker and writer, yes….but there is more to the walk than words. Sorry Michael and all who hold him in higher regard, just my opinion.
Actually, I’ve taken it as valid criticism of my own teaching…I’ve far too often majored on the Law at the expense of the Gospel.
The Lutheran brethren here have been a great blessing to me.
Bob,
See above .
More worst books: Any of the books written by Jeff Godwin about Rock and Roll music.
Piney,
They were better than Jimmy Swaggarts.
Has anyone read Oral Roberts novel “Get Me Out of this Tower!”?
Bob,
It cost 8,000,000 over my book budget.
What I have to wonder is, how has the faith survived all these centuries before this proliferation of books, books and more books were available?
In my education lately about slavery in America, I have been hugely inspired and humbled by the astonishing testimonies, faith and trust of illiterate people who never even owned or could read a Bible! It’s an interesting contemplation to consider that until 50 years ago, most christian families were lucky to have even ONE copy of the scriptures amongst a household!
Sometimes I think perhaps our “much learning has made us mad” Acts 26:24 I know I’m a “bit” off kilter!
paigemom,
There may be more than a little truth to that…I’m a bit off myself.:-)
No “The Other Side of Calvinism” by Larry Vance? You thought GA’s book was a monstrosity. Vance’s is the ugly step-sister.
Fred
MacArthurite sycophant =-)
Fred,
It was honorable mention…it should’ve been higher just because that’s where Hunt got much of his material.
Ok I am in,
I mentioned this yesterday…
Robert Schuller… Self-Esteem:The New Reformation
I got it in the mail free and decided to give it a read…
THE HORROR… the title should have tipped me off…
It shows that he slept through the first reformation
I was incensed… I think I threw it away
Old Reformation Dread
Fred/Michael,
Who is GA?
Michael -
I’m not saying this to antagonize/poke fingers/or anything else…but the top three books on your list are all anti-Calvinism titles. Do they really comprise the majority of the 5 *worst* Christian books of all time?
Or did I misunderstand the question? Are you asking for the 5 Christian books we personally disliked the most - or the ones that have had the worst effect on Christianity?
These aren’t the 5 worst; they’re just several christian books that I think are incredibly, overwhelmingly dumb.
1. “The Maker’s Diet” by Jordan Rubin
It ticks me off that he’s using God and the Bible to con people out of money. It annoys me that people think what he writes has value merely because he gets a couple things right in the middle of a bunch of stupid advice. And it vexes me beyond measure that my own mom actually bought it and read it and took it seriously until I explained to her why it was a total obvious con job.
2. Anything by Janette Oke
I really don’t understand the point of christian romance novels. Romance novels in general are pathetic, pointless, maudlin tripe, but at least with secular romance novels you get a picture of a shirtless Fabio on the cover. Christian romance novels don’t even give you that.
3. “Dare To Discipline” and “The Strong-Willed Child” by James Dobson
I simply don’t understand why people take this man seriously. Beyond being filled with mediocre child-rearing advice mixed in with bits of obviously stupid and ill-advised advice, his books are surprisingly badly written. (Seriously, I’m not making that last part up. Before I read them, I seriously assumed that they’d be well written given that he has a PhD and is a best-selling author. But they aren’t. They’re very disordered and disjointed.)
4. The Left Behind Series
The books themselves are stupid enough, but it never ceases to amaze me that half the country is getting their theology from a bunch of badly written, totally unscholarly, pulp novels.
5. [This space reserved for any book Jackie Alnor might write]
Michael - I gotta say, I’m not sure of the point of this posting. It seems to me that it can really only serve to antagonize and divide, after everyone seemed to get along so well in the mental-health posting.
I mean, I could say, “Anything my Luther, Calvin, White, Piper, and Luther (just because) are all junk.” I might even mean it. How would that help anyone? It just seems kind of antagonistic.
BTW, I’ve only read one of the books you mentioned, it was required reading, and it didn’t phase me at all one way or another, so this isn’t based on the books you chose, just the point of the posting.
Ok this is sure to gain some reaction…
Hank Hannegraaff…. Counterfeit Revival…
It was scandalous, arrogant, pretentious… wait a minute I am describing the author… yes that too.
When Hank is in expose mode his methodology is horrid. He cuts and pastes to suit himself…
Oh and Michael… I do no think was Tom Stipe’s best moment… I think he got used.
Hank was on a vendetta on this one…
It colored my reading of his Apocalypse Code which I liked but found it to have the same arrogant, petulant, condescending tone
When you read his books you can just hear that forced religious voice.
it always…. slays me
Falling Backward Dread
Jessica,
Don’t sell these books short. They had good strong bindings - I used to whip all my kids with them in the late 70s early 80s. Good stuff
When Your Money Fails by Mary Stewart Relfe is my contribution to this list.
http://biblion.co.uk/books/7594785.html
666 was everywhere, in 1981, according to this book. Maybe when I’m doing my business I’ll pull my debit card out and look for the mark instead of reading the sports section
I think the purpose is we are naming the WORST that we have read.
I am sure worse books are written than I have read.
maybe not
Jessica,
I was referring to
3. “Dare To Discipline” and “The Strong-Willed Child” by James Dobson
LOL. I knew what you were talking about, MLD. Now, if somebody would only use them to whip James Dobson.
I love Jessica’s reviews … and agree with most of her choices.
Left Ahead Dread
***I love Jessica’s reviews … and agree with most of her choices.***
Huzzah! I love writing little curmudgeony lists of things I don’t like. I know…it’s a weird pleasure, but it’s my weird pleasure.
Corby,
Come on, this could be fun. Ya gotta admit that there is a lot of crap out there.
Even some of my favorite guys, when you see them in print want to make you go hide.
Today the biggest problem is that there are so few Christian publishers left - they have all been bought up by the bigguns’ as a marketing strategy.
The only good ones left are usually those associated with a denomination or a seminary. You may not like them or agree with them, but they at least stay true to their foundations and aren’t looking for mass appeal.
Lunch time and I am going to finish my latest book - “your best lunch NOW!”
Luther,
I am starting to think YOU ARE LUTHER.
Melanchthon Dread
Obviously that was for MLD,
See what I mean….
There’s very good reason for all of those Rick Joyner books to be banned.
I don’t have “There Were Two Trees…” in front of me, but if memory serves me correctly, page 76 clearly shows him bordering on Docetism.
Let’s not also forget his promotion of Bob Jones, who disgustingly refers to the Holy Spirit as “God’s sperm seed”.
1.) The Purpose driven life by Rick Warren
2.) The late, great, planet earth by Hal Lindsay
3.) The book of Mormon
4.) Harry Potter
5.) The forgotten Trinity by James White
Eric,
Banned from what?
They do not do that anymore….
CC Bookstore Dread
MLD - there is a lot of crap out there to be sure. However, if you all wish to alienate the non-reformed who participate in this forum by isolating books/authors who disagree with Reformed theology (be it eschatology, soteriology, or whatever), by all means continue. I don’t wear my feelings on my sleeves, but even I’m bugged by the pointless criticism of, “These books are so dumb.” when they may very well have been used of the Lord to bring people to Himself.
My point isn’t to shut people up, but to have them consider the usefulness of what is being said, as well as consider if saying such things are worth alienating people.
I am given many books to read; the only books I feel are fair game for this list are the ones I bought myself (self inflicted injury) and read completely.
If you haven’t found any terrible books, keep reading - don’t lose heart, the next one could be the one.
From the fiction list, Bob Larson’s “Abaddon”. Unholy Crap, Batman! I was with a guy who I told I liked the book ‘Angelwalk’ ’cause I thought it was interesting narrative perspective, but rife with contrary views of the non-fallen angelic host. There on the table in the bookstore is ‘Abaddon’, they marked it down to move it out. Yes, I shoulda known better right, Bob Larson. Listened to the friend, spend $3 thinking ‘how bad could it be?’
It was poop. The End.
When I go to the Christian bookstores I know the best books will always be towards the back. Where they hide the commentaries and theology books.
Re Corby’s last post…
I remember reading Chick tracts when I was a kid. In fact we’d read ‘em in church when we were supposed to be listening to the sermon. From what I’ve heard Jack Chick was a bit of a fundy, KJV-only oddball, but I tell you those little booklets were instrumental in my life at the time.
BrianD
I find it difficult to find anything but “fluff” in most Christian bookstores.
Corby,
Read more carefully.
1.) Lutherans are not reformed
2.) The book I offered as worst was a John MacArthur book.
Good discussion. I haven’t read most of them except for “There Were Two Trees in the Garden” (Rick Joyner, from Knarfil’s list) and I would categorize it as heretical. It’s basically dualism, casting “spirit” against “knowledge,” where “spirit” is a nice undefined whatever that Joyner reserves for himself to prophecy with and “knowledge” is anything the historic Church has ever confessed.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned “Your Best Life Now” (Joel Osteen), “A Generous Orthodoxy” (Brian McLaren), “The Purpose-Driven Life” (Rick Warren) or the Prayer of Jabez (Bruce Wilkinson). I guess that makes my five, doesn’t it?
Babylon’s Dread:
O.k., better phrasing would have been “good reason to be omitted” from Christan bookstores.
Considering Paul’s very “stern” words for Docestists, it would be wise to do so.
5 worst books:
1) Welcome is a good word - Gyo Fujikawa. The pictures are nice, but the dialogue …
2) Anything with Clifford in it.
3) Blues Clues books.
4) Any book that looks like it’s a Dr. Suess but it’s not.(PD Eastman)
5) Insert whatever I have read to her more than 5 nights in a row…
That’s been about the extent of the reading I get to do today…
OK, where are all of these Erics coming from
Eric
Eric T
Eric Hoffmann
Eric MLD
Look for these sequels:
“Right Behind”, a series of poorly written novels by the wives of Jenkins/LaHaye extolling the virtues of submissive women.
“Self-Steaming, the New Skin Care Reformation” by Robert Schuller.
“The Diet Makers” by Rubin Jordan, an expose’ of fraudulent nutritionists in the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
“Chosen, Sort of, But Free, Relatively” by Norman Geisler, in which he attempts to clarify his points on Reformed theology.
“What is This, Love?” by Dave Hunt. A new view of the Song of Solomon.
Papias -
Don’tcha be busting on my girl’s favorite two dogs!
I’m with you on the PD Eastman stuff. You think it’s going to be entertaining, but it’s just…not.
fil…too funny!
Bob, believe it or not I found several good books in Christian bookstores. Including some I have on my to-read pile: books by C.J. Mahaney, Josh Harris and Mark Dever.
Of course I have seen many books not worth spending one’s money on.
As far as the Left Behind books, theology aside, the 12 books and the Kids series are just as entertaining as an issue of Uncanny X-Men, Action Comics or Justice League of America.
a definite honorable mention:
“Counterfeit Revival” by Hank Hannegraff
Eric T already mentioned it, but
“A Generous Orthodoxy” by Brina McLaren
“The Relevant Church”, Edited by Jennifer Ashley
and……. sorry boys, but
“Second”, by L E Romaine……….. good content, written in the form of a rant.
oh and one one more for the honorable mention catagory.
“The God Chasers” by Tommy Tenney
When my daughter was about 12, we (She, her mom and myself) would read books out loud to each other at night. We started the Left Behind kids series. The first few volumes were interesting enough, but after that the writing became awful. Bad plot, but the actual writing seemed like the whole project must have been rushed. I think we stopped reading aroung book 5 or 6.
Dread, just read your above comment re: “Counterfeit Revival”..
The only part of that boo worth anything was the intro by Tom Stipe. He spoke with true authority.
FYI to all my beloved PPer’s, any post by an author whose name is an anagram of “Skip Franklin” was probably posted by me.
FYI also, my real name has been provided to Michael and a few others - I wish to be accountable for my words, but not easy to find.
Dread, thank you so much for mentioning Counterfeit Revival. I wanted to cite it as the worst book I have ever read, but as is well known I am a spineless coward.
Even if all of Hank’s points are correct and his insights accurate (and IMHO they are not), he does not present them fairly even while implying that he himself is trying to be objective. It is a horrible book.
For the record, people here are being too hard on Robert Schuller. He is a good man, even if the essence of his message is rejected by the Evangelical Inquisition that is so well represented here and elsewhere on the net.
Cent, I see that Counterfeit Revival has your support for inclusion in this discussion as well, gracias.
I have a marked-up copy in which I have tried to note text that is fundamentally unfair. For example, anyone that agrees with or supports those he seeks to discredit is a “devotee”, a term that certainly implies a mindless sycophancy.
Those he goes after are fair targets, but when it is not done fairly, it diminishes his cause.
Corby,
There are excellent volumes that are written in opposition to Reformed theology.
They are balanced and exegetical and even though I don’t agree with their conclusions, they have merit.
The three I mentioned aren’t worth serious consideration as anything but fire starters.
Great children’s book, fantastic exercise for public speaking:
“Fox in Socks” by Seuss.
My kids’ favorite: “I Had Trouble Getting to Solla Sollew” - should be required reading. I LOVE the ending. “. . . my troubles will have troubles with me . . .”
NotGhandi Murphy
Michael - in your opinion. I’m not defending them, I’m just saying.
Thank goodness that I haven’t read most of the Bad Books already mentioned.
Oh wait, I do own most of the Left Behind series. The first few books are OK, read one after another. But when you got caught up in the series, then got the new book, it was kind of a downer. That, and I thought it was going to end in the next book, then the next book, and so on, and so on.
Corby,
Not just in my opinion.
Do a quick Google search and you’ll find that even Arminian teachers were badly embarrassed by Hunt and Geisler.
I know what I believe and why I believe it… I’ve studied and read the books they rip misquotes from and it is the same as lying.
Hunt even tried to make a case that Spurgeon wasn’t a Calvinist….then damned us all to hell when he was done with that.
Great scholarship.
I forgot about the “God Chasers”…terrible book by a …never mind.
MLD:
This Eric came from the road to hell, saved by grace when I surrended to the Lord. Saved me from scars of two years in a Lutheran school as well.
Cent:
Tommy Tenney = a modalist. Good call.
I’ll agree on McLaren - add Pagitt and Jones as well.
All books written by Mike Warnke have got to be on the list somewhere as well as Johanna Michelson’s “The Beautiful side of Evil”
Steve,
“Johanna Michelson’s “The Beautiful side of Evil” - the book wasn’t as bad as listening to her go around and talk about it - for years!
Honestly, we don’t have enough space on PP to identify all the bad books that have been published over the years. I am sick when I go into a Christian bookstore and see the garbage, false doctrine, and heresy passed off as Christian.
Okay, now I’ll tell you how I really feel…
Finklip
Hey to tell the truth… I actually like much about Robert Schuller but that particular book was so bad… so humanistic… so sold out to a soulish theology that I just near went crazy when I read it.
I think Robert Schuller is a good man and a lover of God but he is no theologian… or at least he hid it well.
And for all the God-Chaser haters… ok I liked it… not for the theology but for the story of the split pulpit and the hysteria that ensued… or should I say manifestations.
I later heard Tommy and was a great deal less impressed he is an updated version of old-style Pentecostalism.
Ok now for another …
Marcus Borg … The Heart of Christianity: Rediscovering a Life of Faith
AAArgh… Borg is a rehashing of old-style (repeated modifier) liberalism… His book basically says that you can be a Christian if you redefine what that is and that you can believe in Christian doctrines because we have all matured to the point where we know that the language is meaningless and we can infuse words with ‘fresh new’ content. Get a barf bag when you hoist this cur it will have you horking fur balls.
Said Dread
What do you all think about a CC favorite, With Christ in the School of Prayer? If I understood Andrew Murray correctly, it seemed to me he was saying we could change God’s minds through our prayers and asked how many wars could have been averted if God’s people had only prayed harder. If I though I could change God’s mind by praying, I would immediately stop praying.
When I was a new Christian, I read Constance Cumbey’s “The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow”.
Oh Diane,
Do not get me started. All I know is God often gave Israel their request even to their peril… I do not think anyone knows the mind of God enough to say that we changed his mind….
But the language of scripture shows us that prayer does SOMETHING. It shows God living in dynamic relationship to his people… they ask him not to speak to them anymore…. he does it… they ask him for food other than manna … he give it… they ask not to go into the land… he lets them die in the wilderness… they ask for a king… he warns them that their king will abuse them… they say that is fine …he gives them Saul … a king after their own hearts.
Then look at the Revelation study…. the Saints appeal to God for justice… he tells them wait a little while… then when he blows the trumpets of judgment what happens… the censor of the prayers of the Saints is thrown to earth… and the Trumpets blast…. horror of horrors.
All I know is when God’s people pray… for good or ill God answers. So who cares about the question of changing God’s mind. It is unanswerable to us…. but for sure when we pray GOD ACTS…
Knowing Therefore the Terror of the Lord Dread
Hey, I work in a Christian bookstore, and every day myself and another theologically minded person who works there find some absolute shockers. I really don’t think its possible to limit myself to just 5, though my absolute worst find would be this one:
‘Jesus’ by Alan Norling. Basically the whole book was about how the Trinity is a lie, and what a wonderful fellow Arius was. I was thinking of actually buying a copy and sending it to Dr. White as proof that there are in fact books worse than Riplinger’s NABV. For example, it contained a ‘quote’ from Calvin calling the Trinity a ‘popish idol’ (anyone who has read the Institutes knows how hilarious that is).
I showed this book to one of the senior staff and he was like ‘yeah, so?’. But I showed it to the manager and was able to get it removed from all our stores around the country (Australia).
How about the “500″ or “5000″ worst Christian books?
There are plenty to choose from…
But right now, I’m too confused to think…mourning the official retirement of Brett Favre.
I’m stuck in denial mode…
Carry on!
Papias…
In a similar vein… I read Dave Hunt’s the Seduction of Christianity… and I knew Dave was ’special’
Where did I banish that book? I think it is holding up the leg of some couch somewhere in east Tennessee.
Hunted Dread
Lutheran,
Brett is my home boy…
Loved that guy. Saw him whip Florida State in the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville Fl.
My hair was dark and my 28 year old son was a kid.
I thought for sure he would stay till forty…
Good to see him go out in a flash of greatness rather than broken down and unable to walk.
A good ole boy from Kiln MS. … Funny thing is I just bought his jersey last week.
4 Dread
Tenney should have wrote “The Skirt Chasers” a topic he understood better…
Nathan,
Welcome!
It must be hard to work in a Christian bookstore and see people walk out with poison.
I’d last about 15 minutes…
Alright…I have a vague memory about a book written by a guy named Mike who later was exposed as a sham. Seems he claims to have gotten out of satan worship…does anybody else remember this gem?
Michael,
Is that true? Throw me a link if you have info. I did not know it. Anyway… you could not sling a dead cat in a bookstore without hitting Godchasingjunk… THAT was when I knew to chunk it.
God Fleeing Dread
Lutheran said, “But right now, I’m too confused to think…mourning the official retirement of Brett Favre. I’m stuck in denial mode…”
I got through the 5 stages of grief pretty quick on Tuesday.
Hang in there buddy, we still have Aaron Rogers! :0
BD,
I read a Hunt book once - or tried too.
I wonder if anyone is gonna name any CC books, or is that stirring the pot?
Michael…
I just had a really funny visual of you working the counter at the local Christian bookstore, and switching out Picirillis’ Grace, Faith, Free Will for Browns’ Scandalous Freedom under the register all stealth-like while trying not to break conversation or eye contact with the customer.
linnea
That was Mike Warnke.. The Satan Seller … I think
The worst Christian book I ever read was “The Elijah Task” by John Sanford. That was about the wackiest book I’ve ever read by a Christian author.
Honorable mention goes to “Crying Out” by Bill Gothard.
The very best Christian book I’ve ever read was on “The Freedom of the Will” by Jonathan Edwards. I wish everybody would read that book. It caused a Copernican revolution in my way of thinking.
Nobody have Missler on their list….?
Conspiracy Dread
Forgot all about Bill Gothard! Basic Youth Conflicts!!!!!! Anyone here attend? Opinions?
Bob
FLASHBACK!
I went 20 years ago!
All I remember about it was getting the notion that my not at fault newly divorced mother could never marry again.
Apparently, there may have been some misinformation somewhere in there….
Nomans
IMO, there was a lot of misinformation!!
BoSweat
byc…sat in the upper section of the arena in Seattle and screwed around (surprise) the whole time…drawing horribly dirty looks from devoted Gothardly people. The worst was the Finney-like response times at the end of each session where people would commit to another legalistic enslavement of religious manipulation…all with BG on big screen video. Horrid. Thanks for raking up that repressed memory.
Dang….
Its all coming back to me
Charts
Charts
So many charts…..
nomanz,
on my charts were cartoons, cartoons, cartoons…
flippantz
Dread,
Of course it’s true!
I can get in trouble for making stuff up.
Gothard
Umbrella
Music
Jack Hyles and Gothard ever in same room?
Chain of Command
Benevolent? Dictator
Red binder! RED BINDER!! REDDDD BINDERRRRRR!
No, Bob Sweat, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Hey, who tore my shirt? Why are all these papers off my desk and on the floor?
If you didn’t have enough of Bill back then, he’s still at it now!
http://billgothard.com/bill/
Nomans,
Foolinfilly
You’re right! After every session they would ask for a commitment…
Uggg
So many commitments!
~Nomanspledgeologist
Bill Gothard…
Basic Youth Conflicts
Advanced Conference
Pastor’s Conference
Bill’s demise was the divorce and remarriage issue and his endless diatribe against rock music.
Then again I still do not know what concupiscence is. I just knew it was real bad and you had to get rid of it.
I always came away from Bill Gothard meetings feeling worse than when I went… but I was somehow happy about feeling so bad… Until I decided to get off the roller coaster… and Bill got Left Behind.
Hammer n Chisel Dread
The Purpose Driven Life wasn’t all that great IMO. It was so southern baptist
Rob
I picked up the red Binder at a friend’s house. It didn’t take me long to see that no man could ever make me believe this garbage was Biblical!! Needless to say, I tour up my registration.
I much preferred all the music/cantata productions that proliferated in the late 70s - early 80s. Let’s talk about that or books again.
This other stuff is creepin’ me out, man.
‘Rise Again’ by Dallas Holm! Great stuff! “Twinkle” a kid’s musical - did I mention I played the Old Man in the Moon? No? Let me sing a little bit for ya - Give me that Calypso beat, ahem:
“I’m the old man in the moon / and I know dat de sun is coming soon
Yes, He’s coming to the earth like a soft, white lamb / to the sleepy little town of Bethlehem”
Everybody on the chorus “We are all stars in the sky / and we know that the time is drawing nigh . . .”
Rob has officially checked out.
Babs,
“Nobody have Missler on their list….?”
Does anyone ‘read’ Missler? or just listen to tapes? I don’t think I have seen a Missler book.
BTW, when I picked up the binder my friend told me that Gothard instructed them never to allow anyone who had not been to Basic Youth read it.
Rob
I’ll bet you sang in a Peterson Cantata.
centorian,
“The Purpose Driven Life wasn’t all that great IMO. It was so southern baptist”
I didn’t see any pot lucks in it!
Worst “Christian” books I ever read:
1)”Backwards Masking Unmasked” by Jacob Aranza
2)”I Saw Heaven” by Roberts Liardon (When Jesus appeared to him while he was watching an episode of “Laverne and Shirley” and Jesus sat on the couch and blinked the TV off. (I’m not kidding!)
3)”Second” by L.E. Romaine
dread,
lol
“I always came away from Bill Gothard meetings feeling worse than when I went… but I was somehow happy about feeling so bad”
yep, that described my head as well.
One of the greatest thing I saw as a result of Basic Youth was my good friend’s girlfriend a(at the time) decided to submit completely to her father, who didn’t like my friend. They eventually broke up and no doubt saved my friend the heartache of having been married to her.
Hey Bob - better have someone else start your car in the a.m.
There may be hit squads.
Don’t you mean to say you have a friend who HEARD about a guy who saw the binder without going to the seminar? I’m pretty sure that’s what you meant.
Which will be noticed first:
1. Bob doesn’t post anymore.
2. Bob’s neighbor notices how scrawny and hungry Bob’s dog looks.
3. Bob’s picture on a milk carton.
4. A Bob replicant as spokesman for “Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts.”
Babs,
“concupiscence”
I thought only Lutherans tossed that term around.
“We are all stars in the sky / and we know that the time is drawing nigh . . .”
It’s ok for you to have a “happy place” Murph.
~Nomansdisparageologist
Sweat,
I got a funny story…
I was not a Christian and I met a guy who was… he intrigued me
More than that his life convicted me. So I asked him to tell me what was up with him. He pulled out this red notebook and started explaining it to me…
“hey it’s all in here he said but I just cannot explain it…’
How do I get that book?
“you cannot get it without going to the conference…”
Ok I will go to the conference…
“you cannot go to the conference without a pastor’s signature.”
I do not go to church…so you have to tell me…
” I dunno man, I am so confused… I know it is all in here I just don’t know how to tell you…”
So I guess that is it for me huh?(I was resigned that I was going to hell for the lack of a red notebook)
“wait a minute man let me just show you this….”
With that the dude opened his Bible and read Philippians 4:13 to me.
Two weeks later I was praying by myself and got save.
TRUE STORY…
6 months later I had my own damn red notebook.
Unconflicted Dread
Quick background…I spent about 6 months or so over in Russia as an Associate Pastor at one of our Church Plants. During that time I got to know George fairly well and helped him proof read his manuscript for The Dark Side of Calvinism. After reading it for a while I stopped at the point where he called Calvinism a works based theology and therefore heresy. I talked to him about it and he held firm that it was a works based theology. It was at that point that I stopped helping him edit. While I do not believe that Calvinism is a works based theology or heresy, I do not agree with it either. That’s neither here nor there though. My point is simply to state that I love George like a father and respect him more than any other man in the faith. He has done an incredible work over in Russia.
Here’s my take on the rest of the books…I wouldn’t say they are the worst. I could think of far more egregious books such as “Good Morning Holy Spirit” by Benny Hinn; or anything endorsed by Paul & Jan Crouch.
Also, I think you’re way off on the Geisler book. I believe he’s correct that it’s both. It’s both God’s choice and man’s choice (which coincidentally is George’s position as well). There…I’ve said my piece…
MLD…
“I didn’t see any pot lucks in it! ”
Bro, that would be covered dishes
Dread - Are you going to hunt down Bob?
Bab’s Dread is going to hunt down Bob and he’s not even sure why. Serpentine to the mailbox, Bob!! Have Mrs. Bob lay down cover fire!!
Leapin’ Angela Lansbury, Batman! Bab’s Dread is the Gothardian Candidate!!
Another Basic Youth story.
I had friend that was so enraptured that he attended all the other conferences, both everything that Basic Youth distributed. He patterned his whole life and world view after what he had learned from Gothard. Interestingly enough, he now works for Rick Warren. hmmmmm…
Here’s what Geisler is dead wrong about.
No one has the right to change established theological terms on a whim to make contrived points.
He did, he got called on it, and has lost much respect in places where he was formerly held in high regard.
Brysons missionary work has nothing to do with his spurious writings.
both everything should read bought everything
Murphy
No Sweat for Bob…
I have moved on to bigger fish.
http://www.tomcruiseisnuts.com/
Scientology Dread
Diane Moos:
“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
(2 Chronicles 7:14)
His ways are not our ways, and we sure cannot understand the mind of God.
Blessings
Well, it’s a common saying but I believe it: The purpose of prayer is not to change God but to change us.
Diane Moos:
Amen!!!!
In reference to God, he is immutable, there is no dispute. It’s not his mind that changes, but (I do believe) his “action”.
Before one is saved God’s action is anger and wrath (which we deserve). Upon salvation it becomes grace and mercy (which we don’t deserve).
There is much in scripture than shows God’s action changing. Howc it works hand in hand with his immutability we cannot conceive. We are mere finite beings unable to fully grasp the infinite.
holy red binderz, batman.
It’s the work of the Gothard Mafia!
robinz
I do not believe there is any need for God to change nor do I believe he does change…
However there is no damage done to God’s immutability to suggest that he actually responds relationally to us in prayer.
There is no assault on the character of God to say that responding to the petitions of his children is part of his self-revelation.
I do not believe that all prayer does is change us… I do not believe the alternative is to change God .., that is a false comparison.
Prayer changes history not God.
Gone for now.
Dread
Hi Dreadly,
You know, I think we agree about this. It’s a hard topic to put into words, though.
-mizMooz
This was a good discussion. My choices are personal and in no way reflects on the authors or their love for God etc.
Anything by Dave Hunt with special mention of Woman Rides the Beast.
All the left behind books and movies though I did read the right behind. That was good, im kidding.
The late great planet earth ug.
Some of Hanks Books like charismatic Confusion , someone mentioned this.
Anything written by Bob Larson.
Some of my very favorite books
Book of Acts, Luke John Ephesians etc
History of Christianity Paul Johnson
All of Father Nouwen
Crossing the Threshold of Hope
Amazing Grace
CS Lewis Thomas Aquinas Augustine’s Confessions The Institutes
Another great thread.
Prayer can change God. What an insult to Him to suggest it does not. What a demotivator to His people to suggest He is just playing games with us when He tells us to pray.
He’s a real friend. A real person. Why would I want to be friends with a block of wood???
Fran Kinklips,
So why is it that the Dodgers’ have not won a championship in 20 yrs? You wouldn’t believe the millions of prayers that go up each night!
Every time Mary cut Jesus’ hair she changed God.
To mention just one instance.
It is my conviction that prayer aligns our will with the Will of God, as Jesus taught us to pray, Matt 6:10: “Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.”
We see that in I Samuel 1:9-11: So Hannah arose after they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh. Now Eli the priest was sitting on the seat by the doorpost of the tabernacle of the LORD. And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed to the LORD and wept in anguish. Then she made a vow and said, “O LORD of hosts, if You will indeed look on the affliction of Your maidservant and remember me, and not forget Your maidservant, but will give Your maidservant a male child, then I will give him to the LORD all the days of his life, and no razor shall come upon his head.”
the Lord wanted a man to lead Israel; however, in order to get a man, He had to get a woman who was willing to align her will with the Will of God. Once that happened, God had a man…but he had to get a woman first.
Please no jokes about changing babies.
Skip,
“Every time Mary cut Jesus’ hair she changed God.”
No, everytime she changed His diaper, she changed God!
Hi Folks. If I may add a thought: Zane Hodges’ Absolutely Free! That book was so utterly useless, that I actually broke my own rules, wrote all over the thing (uncharitably so) and threw it (several times) against the wall. Every time I see that Seinfeld episode where Elaine gets caught up in using too many exclamation marks in her writing, I think of old Zane.
MLD said: So why is it that the Dodgers’ have not won a championship in 20 yrs? You wouldn’t believe the millions of prayers that go up each night!
With God all things are possible; with the Dodgers, it would appear that noting is possible…
Yea, but the babies really gotta want to change…
Should be, “with the Dodgers, it would appear that nothing is possible…”
I for one am glad that God does not change his plans to grant me my crazy wishes. Just think of some of the women I would have been married to.
I like the fact that God uses my prayers to mold me into His image and into His will.
Pilgrims…
How could I possibly forget Hodges?
Because I threw it out too.
Okie,
I can put up with some of your crazy pre trib ideas, but watch your talk about the Dodgers
MLD: Sorry, sorry…
MLD: I thank God for the millions of prayers that God did not answer…
Dustaroo
I could use that truffle
How are you tonight my friend?
Nomans,
http://www.indy.org/library/2005Docs/Apr/7014271/BowlOfTruffles.JPG
I am watching Heroes online. We don’t watch TV and I did not know what it was.
Dustowski
Wow! A whole bowl! Let’s make a night of it
Did you make those?
~Nomanschocolatierologist
Noman, I don’t know how to make truffles…I guess I could learn. I do know how to make fudge or cookies…I could send you some.
Maybe we can share some of the truffles with the others, that is a pretty big bowl.
no response? ok, you don’t have to share
brian,
Anything by Paul Johnson
superb writer.
History Dread
Dusty and Nomans,
The Girl Scout cookies I bought today are delicious (chocolate and peanut butter)! Truffles are yummy too!
hi Solus, sounds yummy
Hello Dusty,
Is your toe completely healed?
What’s new in your life?
Michael:
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2569
BrianD,
I can now retire a satisfied man.
Solus, yes, my toe is completely healed. Thanks.
I am still trying to figure out what the next step for me is. It seems my whole adult life I have been taking care of mom and my daughter. With mom gone and my daughter grown I am a bit at a loss. I have not been doing much in the past few month but resting (and crying) I am ready to do something, but still am waiting on God to lead me.
Not sure if that is what you were asking…nothing new, I don’t think. Still don’t know what I want to be when I grow up.
Solus, what about you? anything new?
Dusty,
I’m glad to hear your toe healed.
Empty nest… has your daughter moved out on her own? If not, I am sure it is still difficult seeing her all grown up. Even in the teens, they need you less and less… so they think.
Yeah, you are still in mourning over the loss of your mother. Sometimes, it doesn’t even set in until six months later. When my father died, six months later was almost more difficult, not sure why. I hope you begin to feel better. You will find a place that brings you joy. God will help you find this place, Dusty. Good talking with you.
My take on the self appointed watchdogs of apologetics, with no active ministries to “real people” i.e. pastoring, is; let ‘em talk, write, self-publish their nonsense until they have no audience. Bryson is about gone, Alnor is approaching “flat-line,” Hunt is now a one-liner joke and Oakland’s phone is not ringing much for speaking gigs. They will go away without an audience. No substance but hate = no public ministry. No one will come.
Px2,
They will always have a fringe audience…we just need to keep them there.
Dusty,
You are truly a watchman by any sense of the concept. My wife and I are new “empty nesters” and our discerment dependent gifts are refreshed. We simply have more time to talk and pray with concentration. It is a stage of life that allows us to focus more directly on spiritual issues. I love my 3 kid’s but I am able to rest and recieve at a new level.
Pastor, Pastor,
Thank you.
You said, “It is a stage of life that allows us to focus more directly on spiritual issues. I love my 3 kid’s but I am able to rest and recieve at a new level.”
I will have to remember that. I want that…an even closer relationship with God.
Dusty, Michael,
If someone promised a “new” move of the Holy Spirit I would be running away faster than a Nascar vehicle the other direction. (to much Vineyard) However if we start taking about a “fresh” move of the Spirit, sign me up. God’s power makes the difference. The Jesus Movement was not about a plan concieved in some office somewhere, but about people preaching the gospel with no fear to a hungry generation. I know I sound like an old man for sure, but the Jesus of scripture has not lost His anointing.
Pastor, Pastor, I am so hungry for that! You have no idea how I long for that very thing.
I agree with Pastor pastor on the freshness of of being an empty nestor. I miss the days when our boys were young, but I really enjoy having more time to press in deeper to the things of God.
I’m just barely catching up here but the Bill Gothard Basic Youth Institutes rang a bell (more cowbell, Nomans).
I remember Gothard going off the deep end when he went to war against Cabbage Patch Dolls. I gave up on him after that.
dusty,
I think of the days when our sons were young, I have great joy and and great sadness. Things I would have differently, things I would not change.
With everything you pay a price. Not that it isn’t worth it, but a greater godliness opens up your heart to greater heartaches.
Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief, And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
Embrace the season of your life that you are currently in with all your heart.
centorian, sounds like sound advice. Thanks
Another worthless book was the “Spirit Controlled Temperament” by Tim LaHaye. He didn’t have a clue what he was talking about!
Te best books I’ve ever read were “The Tale of a Donkey” and “The Tale of a Champion” although the author is a bit of a knucklehead.
While this isn’t a book, but it based upon a book, “Your Best Life Now” Joel Osteen. Yea, I am talking about “Your Best Life Now” board game.
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2007/11/joel-osteens-bo.html
Unbelievable.
Ah, The Spirit Controlled Temperament. That brings back the memories.
Dusty,
I stepped away to watch Survivor with my family. We watch it together every Thursday night. It’s a good family show.
My business has been keeping me very busy. I recently started a new project that is exciting, and one that I enjoy. Also, the past few months, I have been sorting through things, tossing what is not needed and organizing. I try to keep as much as possible on my computer, less paper.
I am always busy with family, school, sports and church. We have a guest room that I am in the process of redecorating. I like to decorate the house and keep it looking pretty.
Spring is here and my flowers are blooming. I am ready to begin some serious planting.
Oh, Dusty, can you believe we celebrate one year in our new church? The time goes by so fast. We love our church and church family and pastors.
This morning, I listened to three Bible studies while sorting through papers. It was a very good day.
Dread and Papias,
Thanks for your comments and encouraging words re: Brett Favre and the Packers.
Brett’s press conference today was kinda but neat. He’s turned into quite a fine man. He’s also a Christian — Catholic. I know someone from GB whose parents go to the same parish as the Favres — well, I guess not anymore, as the family is headed back to Mississipp.
Worst Christian books:
Constance Cumbey — reminds me of the saying, “Paranoia is heightened awareness.”
Anything by the new apostolic reformation nutjobs.
Bill Gothard — I consider his teachings to be cultic.
Anything by Salem “Cigarettes” Kirby
I’m sure there are more, but I can’t think of them right now.
LaHaye also wrote a book on depression that was pretty bad.
Brian,
I really like your list of fave Christian books.
Augustine’s Confessions are as contemporary as anything. They’re great. It helps to get a modern translation.
Salem “Cigarettes” Kirban? A Christian author who smoked? Nah
Who ARE the new apostolic reformation nut jobs? They can’t be worse than the TV preachers or the preachers on public access cable…
J. Smith,
Who on earth are you referring to?
Please, take your hatred elsewhere.
Pastor Pastor,
I appreciate your words about having more time for the Lord and concentrate in prayer. I find myself addicted to hearing, reading and studying God’s Word (blogging too!) and concentrate in my prayer life (more).
Hi Lutheran.
Hoppy Stevens,
did you ever read “Transformed Temperaments” by LaHaze? Same mumbo jumbo, earlier release…it was the rage when I was in high school…so lame, it needs a wheelchair.
I read the two tale books too, and you’re right about the author.
phlegm
Pity that “Cigarettes” wasn’t Kirban’s nickname. It would have been a great one.
Edgar Whisenants book “88 Reasons the Rapture will happen in 1988″ has got to be one of the worst books ever written. Eclipsed only by his other three books, “The Final Shout: Rapture report 1989″ where he Predicted the Rapture would occur in 1989;
then “23 reasons why a pre-tribulation rapture looks like it will occur on Rosh-Hashanah 1993″.
And finally “Now the Earth’s Destruction by Fire”, where he Prediction the rapture would happen in 1994
Salem “Butts” Kirban? Salem “100’s” Kirban? Salem “Menthol” Kirban? Salem “Wacky Tabacky” Kirban…
Luther
I went to a Bill Gothard course when I was at Bob Jones University
Photosynthesis
Yea, I saw the book by Tim LaHaggendaz but wouldn’t plop down the money to buy it
Wasn’t that Kirban’s nickname–Butts Kirban?
Hi Solus. Are you a Packers fan?
Brian D,
NAR — Petey Wagner, Hamon, Pierce are the ones who come to mind. I consider Barna to be a fellow traveler.
Hop-a-long Stuebens,
“Calvary Chapel” Salem Kirban? Ouch!
flame-throwerz
Lutheran,
I have always cheered for Bret/Packers. I have prayed for his wife for quite some time. My heart was just always led to cheer for them. Bret went through many difficult times the past few years. I am glad he broke all those records this year.
preferred Newports over Salems
MaryB,
Interesting. Was it encouraged by BJU to go?
There’s a really solid book about Gothard’s weird teachings:
http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Principles-Gothard-Christian/dp/0974252808/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204870342&sr=1-1
If you start reading the reviews on Amazon, it’s very apparent, quickly, who the brainwashed Gothardite reviewers are. Gothard seems to solely focus on OT Law, nothing about NT grace via Jesus Christ.
If you mix the letters on Kirban you get the name Barkin like the dog and if you mix the letters around on Salem you have Slaem (slay ‘em?)
So there you go–Sla’em Barkin’
Geeesss…I think I need to go to bed after that one
steve,
Amen to your picks on worst books… wish I had remembered Whisenant. I had some people leave my church because I would not endorse the book. I told them I would come to their house and expect an apology in 1990.
I did not stop but I rode by on my bike and waved… they got the message… and I did enjoy the moment …but not much… it was sad very sad.
2008 Dread
My worst book award would go to Rick Warren’s “Purpose Driven Church,” because of its immense popularity. I am sure more people have read this one book than the these five worst books combined and therefore cause more wide spread damage to people’s thinking on Christianity. Honorable mention would go to “Purpose Driven Life” and “The Prayer of Jabez.”
My five worst books would be a tie between every book I’ve ever read that was written by a woman.
Here’s a twist on the worst book thread–One book in the bible I find difficult to read is the book of Job. I know it’s not suppose to read that way but It comes off as a sort of cosmic power struggle between god and Satan and Jobs faith and family are the playing field.
In the end Job gets more kids but being a father of two, there would be no replacing the two I lost.
I hit Bill Gothard in the head with a huge paper airplane while he was doing his chalk drawing. It was in Long Beach in the seventies. The Gothardites acted like I was Sinead O’Connor tearing up a picture of the pope. I may be the only guy to ever get in a fistfight at a Basic Youth Conflicts Seminar. Those red notebooks hurt!
Dread
“I did not stop but I rode by on my bike and waved… they got the message… and I did enjoy the moment …but not much…”
Im such a sick person I would have enjoyed the moment with no regrets what so ever!
Dave
Funny…I picked a fight with Ken Graves after his “Rick Warren is a punk” Comment! How stupid is that?
I think I need anger management
Dave Rolph
BTW I still have my red notebook
I can not believe you said that about women,
Still thinking about Rolph hitting Gothard in the head with a paper airplane…classic!
Lutern
It was required,,at BJU
oops Lutheran
Mary B
I still have all my notebooks… and
Rolph
That is great…. wish I had a videotape.
Centy,
I might have enjoyed it more than I let on…
Potpourri Dread
MaryB
Bob Bennett and Roby Duke wre both turned away from singing at BJU because they were in their opinion, “to rotund” and thus, undisciplined believers
Steve
I do not know who those people are but If they did not sing classic hymns out of a hymnal I am not surprised,
I want to make one thing clear, even though I went to BJU for a time, I would send my worse enemy there it was hell on earth for me,
sorry that was suppose to read I would not send my my worse enemy there,
Dave…”My five worst books would be a tie between every book I’ve ever read that was written by a woman.” WOW!
You might catch some flack for that one…
I think all my favorites have been listed already…but here’s something that really gets to me actually 2 things.
1. The republishing of the same book but for a different demographic.
“Prayer of Jabez for kids” “Prayer of Jabez for teens” “Prayer of Jabez for people with wide feet”
All of Stormie Omartian’s “The Power of a Praying…” come on!
2. Books that are 300 pages that could have been written in about 100.
okay I will add a third thing…
3. ghost writing…that is just wrong. If a pastor is not a good enough author to actually write the book then don’t bother. If the real author doesn’t feel his name will sell books then maybe he should take up speech writing or something not quite as deceptive.
okay a fourth thing…
4. Pastors/Authors that write what seems to be a book every other day…I love Max Lucado but come on! How important can what you are “writing” actually be if you are writing another book before the previous one hits the shelves. Can you say “keep the money rolling”
O Yeah.
Put this book on the list for me…
John Hagee In Defense of Israel….
Then he revised it… cashing in a second time
Then be got called on the carpet for his horrible theology and his response was to revise chapter 10 and reissue the book… cashing in a third time…
In the book he butcher the Gospel and virtually every doctrine he writes on.
Hagee Horror Dread
Oh and I forgot
88 reasons Why The Rapture Will Be in 1988 and my personal favorite Harold Camping 1994 no offense, actually alot of offense this guy walks between the rain drops, and ruined a truly great radio network. It is truly a shame. I knew people caught up in this, really nice folks just torched by the entire situation, granted they were small potatoes, so basically no foul. But there should have been a foul, ok thats emotional thus useless. Just like when the y2k complete total fabricated lie happened, again no foul.
You know I go to great lengths about what I say because I really tremble as to causing damage to anther’s faith, I know I should grow up, water off a ducks back, cannon fodder. Something is really wrong with this. Some of this stuff really does cause a great deal of damage. It bothers me, it should not as its just business, but it does.
dread the words that justify it, as sure as, no more sure then gravity. Cashed in. That alone will always justify it, always. Sad but Im childish and need to grow up, because like I was told, and truer words have never ever been spoke, “its a business”. That is the truth.
Dave Rolph wrote: ***I hit Bill Gothard in the head with a huge paper airplane while he was doing his chalk drawing. It was in Long Beach in the seventies. The Gothardites acted like I was Sinead O’Connor tearing up a picture of the pope. I may be the only guy to ever get in a fistfight at a Basic Youth Conflicts Seminar. Those red notebooks hurt!***
You are officially awesome!
Where do you live, Dave? I want to come and touch the hem of your garment.
I have 5 and a half. And one secular one.
1. Generous Orthodoxy - Brian McLaren
2. Sex God - Rob Bell
3. Chosen But Free - Norman Geisler
4. Purpose Driven Life - Rick Warren
5. The Rapture - Tim LaHaye
5.5 Dave Hunt’s half of Debating Calvinism
And the worst secular book I was forced to read in my Christian high school by the pastor’s wife: How To Win Friends and Influence People.
Lt.Dave
nothing like good war stories.
Filbertz Gump
JESS: Anything by Janette Oke
RA: ROFL!!!!!! Check this out Jess. I don’t have any copies left, or else Id send you one. - Your Musack is on the way.
HOMELAND INSECURITY: A NOVEL
by Yours Truly
http://www.amazon.com/Homeland-Insecurity-Novel-Richard-Abanes/dp/0736914692/ref=sr_1_5/103-0056843-6927040?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186248978&sr=1-5
Yeah..I agree with RC about the Stormie Omartian Praying series of books..the series formula in general is so ridiculous..someone writes one “good” (which just means popular) book and suddenly there are spin-offs from that book ad nauseum for years and years to come.
I’m eagerly awaiting Omartian’s next..”the Power of a Praying Pet.”
How about Lahaye’s “The Act of Marriage.” Taking sex advice from Tim Lahaye can result in spouses sleeping in separate rooms, or even in the same room, but in different beds. I think that’s what happened to Fred and Wilma Flintstone.
Jessica
Please don’t encourage Dave in his actions he will only get worse, Besides I still have not forgiven him about his comment on book written by women
Don’t get me wrong I love Dave he is a dear friend,
***Please don’t encourage Dave in his actions he will only get worse***
Worse than being the person who hit Bill Gothard with a paper airplane? That I’ve got to see. So, Dave, consider yourself encouraged.
Hmm, Rich. Used copies of your book are selling for only $1.44, maybe I’ll just buy it. But I just dropped my financial info off so that the accountant could do my taxes, and my psychological response to paying taxes is just to not buy anything for a couple months. (I know it’s kind of weird, but I can’t help myself.) So, maybe in May, after I’ve recovered from the pain of tax season, then I’ll buy that book.
Jessica
Have you ever been to one of those seminars I have and I don’t blame Dave for doing it, Those meeting are really boring,
***Have you ever been to one of those seminars***
Ye gads, no. I can only imagine the tedium. :yawn: :snore:
And to think that God is also responsible for their production as well as the mean-spirited comments made on this blog by “its author.”
“Don’t look at the behind the `compatabilist free agent’.”
“No one has the right to change established theological terms on a whim to make contrived points.”
Well, there goes the Reformation. Find me “imputed forensic justification” before the Reformation in any creed, confession, or statement of faith within Christianity.
Stormie…wasn’t that a song by the Four Seasons?
Michael,
Check it out, James White gave you a hat tip on his blog.
He writes:
The Five Worst Christian Books (Phoenix Preacher)
03/06/2008 - James White
I broke out in hives as soon as I scanned the list. I became dizzy, and lost my appetite.
OK, I’m making that up. But the list is very, very…familiar to me. For some odd reason. Maybe because I have debated most of the authors, or, tried? Been threatened with lawsuits by at least one of them (take a wild guess who!), and have in general provided a pretty full response to the whole lot of ‘em. Thanks for the blog entry, PP!
puzz,
I hate to admit that it made my day…but it did.
me too!
Yeah, it does get quite hard someones working at a Christian bookstore. I really cringe every time someone asks me for something by T. D. Jakes or Joel Osteen.
It’s funny though - the store where I work (Koorong, http://www.koorong.com if you’re interested) was actually started by a Reformed Baptist man who read every single book before allowing it on the shelves (it was a much smaller store back then) and refused to sell books by Benny Hinn and the like. Its his son who runs it now and he’s a Pentecostal and much more ‘open’ in his theological views. Though we don’t stock outright liberal stuff like Crossan or Spong, we certainly have a good share of moderate, ‘post-conservative’ stuff. Seriously, you can’t spit in the theology section without it landing on an Open Theist book (which actually works out quite nicely…).
NathanB,
Now, that was funny…you fit in well here.
Some authors questionably claiming Christianity of which to avoid IMHO:
Peter Ruckman
David Cloud
Oral and Richard Roberts
Paul & Jan Crouch
Benny Hinn
Joseph Smith (okay, that one was courtesy of Captain Obvious)
Texe Marrs (conspiracy wacko)
Steve Winter (Oneness Pentecostal nutjob)
Bob Larson
John Hagee
Rodney-Howard Browne
I could probably add more, but those are off the top of my head…
The CC Distinctives get all top five positions. It is unbiblical opinion posing as absolute fact and destroying in the path it cuts. Left Behind gets a dishonorable mention for having the Pope get raptured. I believe in the rapture, but I doubt the Pope will be going in it.
Daniel S.
The Amils on the Revalation Thread have posted a flight delay for everyone till the end of the Book. Just wanted to let you know.
puzzletop
NathanB,
Welcome to the blog!
You’re from Down Under, right?
Do you know about the Green Bay Packers and Brett Favre?
I have to say that the five books mentioned here are clearly bad! Thanks for posting them. And for those who think the only purpose this would serve is to antagonize, they should read the books mentioned. Chrisitans should be warned of bad “Christian” books even if they are written by supposed “good” writers. This is not to say that they should stay away from the books and never read them, but be discerning if you are to (waste your time and) read them.
I no longer go to “Christian” bookstores. They really depress me. The drivel that calls itself “Christian” packs every shelf. When I buy my books there are only two sources: (1) seminary bookstores, and (2) online.
In listing the Top Five bad Christian books please do not forget anything written by Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, or T.D. Jakes. Ugghhh!
Will T,
I’m much more impressed by the Christian book section at my local Barnes & Noble than at the local Christian bookstores. The books they carry are much meatier.
How many seminaries offer books online? The only one I’m aware of is Regent in Vancouver.
http://bookcenter.dts.edu/
http://wtsbooks.com/
Lutheran
Mar 7th, 2008 at 10:02 am
“Stormie…wasn’t that a song by the Four Seasons?”
Some things I can’t abide. Along with “Spooky” the song “Stormy” was a big hit back in the 60’s. They were performed by the “Classic IV. I owned them!!
God bless!
1. Anything written by Tim LaHaye
2. Anything written by Hal Lindsey
3. Anything written by Joel Osteen
4. Anything written by Chuck Colson
5. Anything written by John Eldredge
Honorable mention: Second by L.E. Romaine & The Assisting Pastor by Larry Taylor - Handbooks on pastor worship.
My 5 worst - ever:
5. Transformed Temperaments - Tim LaHaye. Distracting Pseudoscience.
4. The Purpose-Driven Church - Rick Warren. Marketing and business models for churches. Ugh. Give the punters what they want, build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door. I say again, ugh.
3. The Power of Positive Thinking - Norman Vincent Peale. May not be specifically “Christian” per se, but the effect of “self esteem” philisophy on the Church has been devastating, IMHO.
2. You Need More Money - Brian Houston. Prosperity Gospel 101. It’s all about ME - and that’s a good thing. Ugh.
1. Babylon Mystery Religion - Ralph Woodrow. McCarthyist hysteria and conspiracy theories come to religion! Hilarious.
Five of the worst types of Christian books you can find in the Christian bookstore:
5. The Romance Novel where the Christian woman gets swept off her feet by the dashing Christian man and there’s danger but the heroine will be okay because Jesus and Mr. Stud are there to protect her, and as an added bonus, there’s no sex!
4. Instant biographies of the Christian celebrity of the moment (remember Lisa Beamer? Ashley Smith? Kurt Warner? Did you forget already? C’mon)
3. The author who takes what worked well for someone else and writes the same book, only with his/her name on it and enough details and ideas changed or tweaked to publish the book and keep from getting sued into oblivion
2.Any book by some self-professed health expert who tells you the same thing any competent dietitian would, but throws a few verses in there and, voila! Instant Christian health guide! (Principle applies to Christian exercise books, too)
1. The book where the Christian celebrity author tells you if you believe enough, have enough faith, keep a smile pasted on your face, keep a great attitude, and try hard enough you can turn your life around and have your best life NOW!
Honorable mention goes to:
The book where Blair from the Facts of Life admits to spanking her kids. D-List Hollywood star + her salvation = instant Christian celebrity + advocacy of spanking as a good thing + pro-spanking, pro-disciplinary, pro-God Christian conservative families as a group to market to = bad Christian book
I think Mary K. Baxter’s “A Divine Revelation of Hell” has to rank up there with some of the worst. Complete and utter midieval claptrap that is so incorrect theologically and biblically that it staggers the mind to think that this garbage made it through any biblically literate screener to find it’s way on the Christian bookstore shelves.
I also agree with the Chick ‘Satanic revolution’ books of the late 80s. I was into them big time as a kid and they were fun to read, but so many of them today come across as extremist paranoia now.
As for not liking to go into Christian bookstores, that is how I feel about the music. Nothing but alternative rock these days. i can find a much better selection of all types of Christian music at A&B Sound and probably Wal-Mart.
The 5 Worst Christian books aren’t really Christian, are they?
Rev,
Good observation.
Leads me to ask: What makes a book Christian?
Lutheran,
Baptized within a few days of publication!
“Enemies of Soulwinning” by Jack Hyles.
David T.
I bet that is a doozy…:-)
Bro can you show from your correct exegesis of the passages in Geisler’s book where he went off the wall and what supposed to be the correct exegesis? Thank you. Abu
Abu,
James White filled a book full of them, ‘The Potters Freedom”.
There literally is a book full of them…
Gail Riplinger books, videos & audio’s contains multiple errors, lies, the majority of which are the gross misquoting of other people. In particular, a large portion of the misquoting is of the Bible, B.F. Wescott and F.J.A. Hort. See her divorces and marriages info.
The New Bible Translations are more correct than the old ones and just about everything Gail Riplinger says in her books, videos and audio’s is a Lie. Please Don’t be deceived by Gail Riplinger. Gail is slamming God’s Holy Word in the new translations. For further info on Gail Riplinger please see:
http://www.avpublications.org
http://www.truth.tc/information/gail-riplinger.html
Yep - I would agree with that.. Thanks for the line.
I had to drop in when Whisenant was mentioned. I ordered a case of his 88 Reasons…in ‘88 to distribute in my church just to stir things up - then explained why it wasn’t true the Sunday before the rapture. What was funny was that they included a Christmas catalog in the case. I ordered the case in August, the rapture was supposed to happen in September. Why do I need a Christmas catalog?
I am months late to the party, but I wanted to contribute my 2 cents’ worth. Beyond all others, the worst book I ever read as a new Christian was “Pigs in the Parlor” by Frank and Ida Mae Hammond. It’s a classic “deliverance” kind of book that informs the reader that virtually all Christians need deliverance from demonic influence, and even contains instructions on how to do you own home deliverance sessions, complete with buckets strategically placed for vomit.
How many uninformed Christians have been paralyzed by fear after reading this book I can only imagine. It scared me witless until I actually began to read what the Bible says about sanctification.
Lance K.,
God can and does use some of the oddest vehicles to get us to study His Word, huh? Welcome, by the way…….
There are a lot of great candidates for worst book listed.
I am even more late but I do agree with the “Pigs In The Parlor” selection.
—–
Other books not mentioned:
Anything by “Dr.” Rebecca Brown especially ‘He Came to Set the Captives Free’
Turmoil in The Toybox by Phil Phillips
I Kissed Dating Goodbye by Joshua Harris
God’s Armorbearer by Terry Nance
War On The Saints by Jesse Penn-Lewis
Anything by Kenneth Copeland and other “word of faith” “ministers”…anything by the Charismatic authors such as Rick Joyner, Rod Parsley or John Hagee…oh my! the list just goes on and on and on and on like the energizer bunny!
I would be interested in some specific objections to James R. White, in general, and in regard to his objections to Geisler in particular.
I think the only thing I have read of White is ‘The King James Only Controversy” and bits of “The Roman Catholic Controversy”.
I don’t mean to imply I agree with any of those he takes on, just ignorant of where he gets it wrong on each of those and “The Forgotten Trinity”, if he wrote a book with that title or something like it. Thanks
What? No mention of “The Bondage Breaker” by Neil Anderson?
Stumbled on to these posts late, but really enjoyed them. I read most of the really bad books mentioned in my early newly-saved years and they left me with a truly distorted view of the faith. I’ve been years recovering from the whacky trendy Christianity I was fed. I vacillate though, between irritation over the bad teaching I got, and gratitude for the eagerness these same whacky people had to share the gospel with me.
Seriously people, I started reading this blog hoping to find some useful information on books to avoid, or at least to see various viewpoints. The problem is I had to abort mission after reading several of the posts due to the HORRIBLY mean-spirited comments. I’m a mature Christian man in my mid-40s, open to frank discussion and in a profession which requires strong discernment & a thick skin. Reading several of these posts led me to believe some (not all) see their ministry as criticism, reminding me of Paul’s statement of a clanging cymbal without love.
Let’s all PLEASE be loving in our debate, our comments, & expression of our thoughts, since there are skeptics looking for cues from Christians to determine whether they should follow Christ. Be right, yes; debate, yes; but don’t go wrong by speaking the truth without love!
Your brother in Christ’s love.
Hi Calvinist bros/sis.: I wonder if you all can post up some pure study [exegesis] of John 3:13–Calvinists’ exegesis of this familiar verse. As far as my limited knowledge is: I have not see any one single Calvinist’s exegesis of this particular text without bringing in other texts and theology into this clear text. Somehow my pastor friend thinks: No Calvinist is able to exegete this text apart from his/her Calvinist’s assumptions. I just wonder if: can a Calvinist explain what is in the text without reading Calvinism onto it?
Agus