First, thank you to all of you…I just finished the interview concerning Issues Etc.
Before the interview, the host and the technical supervisor told me how much they appreciate this ministry…and this ministry is about all of you who minister here.
I am truly humbled and thankful to be a part of this work.
The interview will be broadcast on Pilgrim Radio, Monday, March 31st at 2:00 AM, 12:04 PM, and 9:04 PM.
The program is called "His People" and I pray that I represented us and our Lord well.
from His People:
Daily interviews with stimulating guests from all walks of life and Christian endeavor.
Wow Michael…a great description!
Linnea,
Very nice people as well…
sooooooooooooo kewl.
Michael-
I’m sure you did a great job & represented us well. Thanks for doing that. I look forward to listening to it.
You know what this means, don’t you?
Newnham Live/Podcasting 24/7 !!!
Now, I just saw where you can set-up your own radio podcast from your computer with just $200 worth of software & equipment.
Think about it:
5am-10am…….Mornings With Michael
10am-3pm…….Noontime With Newnham
3pm-6pm……..The Gospel With Jerry Lee Drive-Time
6-Midnight…..Kahlua & Calvinism
Midnight-5am…ENOUGH! - Late night talk for those who’ve had ENOUGH!
And we will call it all…
Tissues, Etc. !
PN,
LOL!
I’ll have some of what you’re having.
Michael, he has been like this all day.
Too fun.
It’s good to see the spirits lifted around here…it’s been a dark winter.
It’s Darkest before The Dawn, My Friend…
Personally, I like the late night call-in talk show called ENOUGH!
Instead of being wimpy & just taking one caller like most do, he would take multiple callers
Then, when they start bickering, he can yell ENOUGH! into the Microphone & switch to two other callers on a completely different subject, like threads.
***It’s Darkest before The Dawn, My Friend…***
I don’t think that’s actually true. It would probably be darkest when the moon wasn’t out or when it was obscured by clouds.
Jessica-
I realize that, in nature, that is not the case.
I employed the old axiom because we tend to feel as if we can take no more (at our darkest hour), right before there is a break (light).
Speaking of breaks…
Thanks for covering my back
Well, I’m cynical and pessimistic. It seems to me you tend to feel as if you can take no more right before one more bad thing happens and you realize “Crap, things can get darker.”
And then, finally, they just get really dark and they stay that way for years and years and years.
I guess it’s always darkest when you’re (a) trapped in an underground cave with no holes to the outside world or (b) completely blind.
I’m going to go get some popsicals now.
Jessica-
I was just trying to have some fun with Michael after a rough couple of weeks for both of us.
Are you okay?
Remember Erma Bombeck said “it’s always darkest just before it goes completely black!” hahahahahah
Unless it’s really dark, you can’t see the stars and marvel at their beauty.
Yeah, I’m sorry PN. I ruined the mood there.
I guess I’m okay–as in I’m not worse than normal. I’m feeling grouchy and lethargic. I think one of the main reasons I’m grumpy is I just read BrianD’s review of Josh Harris’ new book about not dating the church and it really ticked me off. But I’ll get over it.
Please, return to your good-natured banter.
I’m too scared to now…
Jessica,
I just had to restock my own popsicles…
I read your review of “Stop Dating The Church” and I couldn’t agree with you more.
Few people irritate me as much as Harris…I didn’t comment over there because I try to only be rude at home.
***I’m too scared to now…***
Don’t worry. It’s not like I can jump through my computer moniter, travel across the vast expanse of teh interweb, jump out of your monitor, and cause you serious bodily harm if you start joking around.
…or can I?
well…if anybody could…
***Few people irritate me as much as Harris…I didn’t comment over there because I try to only be rude at home.
***
Hah hah. I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds him vexing.
I seriously wonder how many young christian girls have ended up shying away from normal, healthy interaction with the opposite sex because of his “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” book.
And now how many people will stay in a bad church situation because of his new book?
Speaking of churchy stuff, a young (28) friend was over here yesterday who told us she thinks Calvary Chapels are “a cult”. She was saved at a CC, was very actively involved for years, attended their School of Ministry, etc, but left a couple of years ago. The farther removed she is from it, the more she feels it is cult-like. Hmmm.
I have to admit, I did have to ask the Lord about that.
Got me thinking/praying, for sure…… more later. No offense CC guys, please.
She’s going to go to Mount Olivet with us this week.
Jessica,
He’s made a hell of career speaking dogmatically about that which he has no knowledge of.
If I get started, I’ll get in trouble…
paigemom,
Did she say why she felt that way?
***Speaking of churchy stuff, a young (28) friend was over here yesterday who told us she thinks Calvary Chapels are “a cult”.***
I don’t know that you could say that about every CC, but I think it’s possible to honestly make that statement about some of them. The Calvary Chapel I grew up in is very messed up and seems to have a sectarian mind-set.
“Cult” can be a confusing term to use, however. It has so many different definitions and everybody has their own idea of what constitutes a cult. I believe that is one of the reasons why the term “spiritually abusive” is in vogue now–it conveys they idea of spiritual harm and abnormality without affixing the stigma sometimes associated with the word “cult”.
I haven’t read the book, but I did comment on the good points BrianD got from the book.
I’ve seen Harris speak on TV a few times, and found him to be as insular as Jessica said he was on FTA. I realized I couldn’t identify with him in any way.
The last thing we need is more guilt heaped-on struggling people.
***He’s made a hell of career speaking dogmatically about that which he has no knowledge of.
If I get started, I’ll get in trouble…***
In that case, get started! Things are more intresting when trouble breaks out.
Jessica,
I can’t…there are some people that I find so obnoxious that only profanity and mockery are satisfactory descriptors.
I’m sure he’s a fine lad and I’m happy that he gets to touch a girl now after church.
***I can’t…there are some people that I find so obnoxious that only profanity and mockery are satisfactory descriptors.***
I know exactly how you feel.
I still think Michael should start an internet radio broadcast….
Jessica, I responded to your post on FTA.
I find whatever book I read, if there are things I agree with there will be something I disagree with. I think that’s inevitable, and healthy for me not to accept everything I read at face value.
I also find myself filtering every book, magazine article, podcast, TV program, church sermon, even blog posts
through the filter of what I best understand to be Scriptural and reflective of the historic Christian faith. I find it necessary to filter everything through that grid, and find it a healthy thing to do so provided I a) realize I do not know everything and probably not even half of what I think I know and b) I trust the Holy Spirit to lead me into His truth and inform me about what it is I am reading or hearing or seeing.
I tried to find what is Biblical and Scriptural and good in everything I come across, and Josh Harris’ book is no exception. I don’t see him in the negative way that Michael and Jessica do; I thought he had some good things to say about church and that was what I intended to get across to the reader of my book review.
I was mindful of potential abuses of the ideas that Harris espoused in Stop Dating the Church, and I made sure to get that across.
I also need to say I have joined a church that espouses a form of church membership similar to Sovereign Grace and Mark Dever’s Capitol Hill Baptist Church. I agreed to give (something), serve (in some way), and attend every Sunday for a year, and all I’ll add to that is that level of commitment they ask me to make better be worth it.
May I add that I have filtered and even moderated some of my own blog posts, for the sake of fairness to all of our readers and participants
PN,
We almost started podcasting a year or so ago…I’m waiting on God for direction for everything, so I’ll put that on the list.
BriD-
I have noticed your blogging temperament change over time.
I have resented it because mine hasn’t
Do start a late night call in show Michael.
BrianD,
You do an excellent job on the reviews, so don’t take it personally.
I’ve just had my snoot full of all the “New Calvinists”.
Justin Taylor gripes my butt too…as well as all the Mahaney clan.
I’m just a curmudgeon…:-)
PN, this is a place where I worked through a lot of my issues…and the mess that went along with it.
Sometimes I blew up in people’s faces and sometimes I threatened to take my ball and go home.
I try to obey God and honor Him in what I do here. I am in the process of being sanctified. There’s plenty of sinful, filthy, garbage in ole Brian to get offended by and ticked off about. That is what God wants to work out of me so that He can work Christ into me.
Michael-
Are you sure they aren’t “New and Improved Calvinists”?
Just kidding!
I know what you mean. I told Papias about Adrian Warnock on the other thread; I hesitated, because Warnock has begun to embrace anything that even hints at reformed now…
Michael,
I see your point, and want to affirm that there is good in those men as well.
All of us have our flaws and virtues. If we’re honest, we’ll admit that all of the good in us comes straight from the Father, that we can’t claim any of it as coming from ourselves.
That said, I will admit to anyone who asks that from what I have seen here and in the dozens of blogs I follow, there are things that tick me off royally…one of the overriding themes in my mind is that the church should be different from the world, and its leaders different from the world. Yet, many church leaders run to the world for their leadership ideas, and I’ve been in churches (all of you have too) where the people seem indistinguishable from the pagans.
For example, when you hear the phrase “slow to hire, quick to fire” uttered from a pastor’s lips, you know the church leadership culture has jumped the shark. And that’s not good.
Thank God for the Internet. At least it can help people know they’re not alone, and that the lunatics aren’t totally in control of their spiritual lives. And maybe we can speak truth to those in power, and help those in power change.
Warnock has always been reformed, best I could tell.
Here’s the deal with these guys…they are legalistic freedom thieves who are utterly unable to distinguish between law and Gospel or the proper use of either.
They are also every bit the celebrity suck ups that CC has been accused of being.
I see people stealing Piperisms just the way they use Courson in CC.
Their constant moralizing on issues they know nothing of is a burden to my soul.
Other than that…love em.
Sleepless,
I just now finished watching that movie.
BriD-
Yes, you’re right, he has always been Reformed. But he is now embracing many bloggers & movements that he didn’t use to affiliate with, and many of those are pushing the tenets of the tradition to the brink…
BrianD,
You are the best blogger online and I’m not afraid to say so.
You are a gift to all of us and it’s time I recognized your gifting more often and more loudly.
Thank you for all you’ve done for me and this ministry.
Michael said,”I’m sure he’s a fine lad and I’m happy that he gets to touch a girl now after church.”
Dusty,
I tried to tell Jessica I shouldn’t say anything!
It’s her fault.
Thank you for your kind words, Michael.
Michael, I’ve tried to help, often. I am sure I could have done much more. Actually, you and many of the people here and this blog in general have done much more for me than I ever have done for you in return…might be a long while before I can repay that debt
Sigh…
When I was a kid I wanted to be in talk radio…this was before that really was a niche market.
I used to listen to this old guy named Ira Blue out of KGO in San Francisco at night, then when he was off I’d listen to KFI…Larry King was a nobody in Miami…thought that was the best job in the world.
BrianD,
The host today asked me how I do this and I told him, I don’t.
God sent me His best and WE have done this together.
My dad loved Larry King…when I was a kid, Dad used to listen to him in the middle of the night when he was getting ready for work. I could hear the radio in my bedroom. Dad told me that King was a lot crazier on those overnight radio shows than he was on TV.
BrianD,
He was…he was on the Mutual network and he was pretty brash.
I can’t wait to hear it!! Michael, I just know you did a great job.
Jessica,
The other night, London mentioned the movie - The Court Jester with Danny Kay, a very young Angela Lansberry, and a not so young Basil Rathbone. If you want to
lift your spirits and haven’t ever seen this film or it has been a while - get it!
I just ordered a copy and I should have it in a couple of days. It is hilarious, but be warned that the sword fight sequence has a stand in part of the time for
Basil. The flagon with the dragon—- and all that medieval stuff. It is a great escape from reality. Now to get back to the Rockford Files.
Mutual…that’s what I thought he was on. For some reason radio was better back then.
Even when Art Bell was doing overnights.
Funny, Michael…I did the same thing…I loved it.
I loved late night AM talk radio, & thought it was so cool how the AM waves could bounce & I listened to people all over the US on certain nights.
Then, we moved to an apartment on the same street as this tiny local AM radio station & I thought that was wild.
As recently as a couple of years ago I was offered a radio job by a guy in Oregon…
now most of the AM radio stations are playing George Noory overnights. Well, except for WSB, WGN and KMOX it seems.
PN,
AM radio…I remember sitting in an old pickup at night to listen to Giants games, or the LA Kings hockey team, then into the house to listen to talk radio or country music out of Spokane, WA.
My life revolved around getting better radios…then I discovered shortwave.
It was so hard to turn down the radio show a year or so ago…but it was the right thing to do.
Dusters,
I hope so…we actually had to re-record the whole thing after my post.
Nothing here comes easy.
Re-record? Were you less nervous the second time?
RE: Josh Harris and Kiss The Date Thing ‘Ciao… While I didn’t read the book, my lovely and gracious wife did before we met, and she was incredibly blessed by it.
Of course, she has an amazing ability to chew up the meat and spit out the gristle…she’d probably even like The Shack if she had time to read it…
Dusty,
Actually, it turned out much better..I was glad to do it over.
Mike,
All these guys turn out some helpful material…I just can’t hack the attitude.
A.M. radio in my youth was 93KHJ and KRLA. Humble Harve and many others “hosted” the shows. Then Doctor Demento corrupted me!
Maybe you should blog your thoughts, Michael…we’ll all volunteer to do a blog blast by linking to it on every Reformed blog known to man…which will lead to a helpful, productive, informative, edifying blog fight
Fred, Two movies I just saw and loved were “The Kite Runner” and “August Rush.” Both are excellent and safe! End of hi-jack!
WHAS once was one of the best radio stations in America…now it’s homogenized by its corporate master. Most stations are similar, cut in that ClearChannel cookie mode….WSM, WGN, still stand out.
I used to listen to Reds games on WLW, Cardinals on KMOX, the Cubs on WGN, the Braves on WSB, and whatever other team I could pull in on the AM…
Erunner,
How about KFWB, XERB with Wolfman Jack, and good old Vin Scully calling the
Dodgers games on KFI! I listened a lot to KGER from Long Beach. That was
about the only “Christian Station” at the time.
Erunner,
Thanks, I’ll have to check them out.
Fred, I remember them both as I grew up in nearby Artesia! I recall KGER as a station for old people! Vin Scully and Jerry Doggett were a staple of my youth and we also had Dick Enberg doing the Angels and UCLA basketball back when Alcindor was playing. We’re dating ourselves!
BrianD, That’s a lot of teams to listen to! Here in the L.A. area, we have a glut of teams, although for some kooky reason, we don’t have our own NFL team. They are in St. Louis!!!
Erunner,
Do you remember Polka Parade on Saturday afternoons KFI, I think, hosted by
Dick Sinclair? I know, I am an old geezer!
Fred, The Court Jester is classic and hilarious. And Basil Rathbone is still awesome even when he has a stand in.
I’ll have to see if the library has it on DVD (my VCR doesn’t work anymore).
Fred, Don’t recall the show but I do recall the name Dick Sinclair. I listened to music and sports only. In later years I would call in and talk with Bud Furillo about sports and Rich Buhler on “Talk From The Heart.” Time flies….. God bless!!
Jessica,
My VCR just tied, too. Another favorite is Robin Hood from 1938 - I have it on VHS, so I better get another VCR. Have you ever seen the Addams Family TV
series from the 1960’s? I guess I have a warped sense of humor. I’m sure you’ve
seen all the Sherlock Holmes movies with Basil. How did your medieval thing go?
Michael,
This is very exciting. I can’ wait to hear the interview.
My typing has been terrible lately… sorry.
VCR DIED, not tied
Michael, I can’t wait to hear it either.
Erunner-
Yep, nothing like falling asleep listening to Vin Scully call a game.
Jessica-
I’ve been wanting to let you know that I absolutely love Basil Rathbone!!! I am a huge Sherlock Holmes fan and they used to run his old movies in Washington, DC, late at night. So, even though I love Holmes, it’s never right unless Basil is playing him.
There, see; I’m not so bad
Fred-
The Polka Parade? That just sounds wrong
***Another favorite is Robin Hood from 1938 - I have it on VHS, so I better get another VCR. Have you ever seen the Addams Family TV
series from the 1960’s? I guess I have a warped sense of humor. I’m sure you’ve
seen all the Sherlock Holmes movies with Basil. How did your medieval thing go?***
I have the super special DVD release of Robin Hood with basically a million extra features. It’s sweet. I have loved that movie since I was little more than a baby.
And of course, I’ve seen all the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes. Actually, one of the reasons why I love Rathbone so much is because he did such a great Sherlock Holmes, and I love Sherlock Holmes.
No, I haven’t seen the old Addam’s Family tv show. I’ve currently been watching lots of Perry Mason, and I checked some Lost In Space DVDs out that I have to get to soon.
The Medieval Times thing went great. We got put in the green knight section–he’s always the most fun to cheer for. This time he ended up being the bad-guy who was plotting against the king so that was fun. He also threw me a flower, which was pretty nice. I’ve never gotten a flower before.
***There, see; I’m not so bad
***
I never thought you were bad. Although I must admit, the Rathbone/Holmes love makes you extra cool.
Michael, when you say the interview will be broadcast at 2:00 AM, 12:04 PM, and 9:04 PM is that Eastern Time or Pacific Time?
http://i.cnn.net/v5cache/TCM/Images/Dynamic/i65/courtJester_WP_1280×1024_022820081006.jpg
Jessica-
It looks like Pilgrim is out of Nevada, and Michael’s in Oregon; both are Pacific…
Ira Blue! Oh man, that brings back the memories. I was living in Olympia, Washington at that time and I could get KGO at night… come to thing of it, I had my own radio program then on KAOS-FM.
Diane,
Are you an old Greener? I’m not, but our State Senator Dan Swecker is. Funny
thing is, he’s fairly conservative. KAOS as I understand it was named after
CONTROL’s nemesis as in Get Smart.
Diane,
I wondered if I’d be the only one who remembered him.
Jessica…PDT.
Fred, I lived in a community of Greeners but wasn’t personally enrolled. (Evergreen State College is what we’re talking about. KAOS was the college radio station.) I was there the year the station started. I can’t remember if it was named after Get Smart or if it was named after that college’s fondness for anarchy. Prolly both.
Just back from my cat-babysitting commitment
Re: my young friend’s comments about CC=cult; the extreme legalism, suppression of women, out of context teaching even in verse by verse “teaching”, controlling by fear. All the usual stuff 
hahahah I could relate to most of it. I went that that particular CC for five years. After leaving I, too, realised how much fear and paranoia had governed my relationship with God. I’m relieved to be free of it. We pray often for the leadership of that CC.
Onto the other subject at hand: MrFixit has two shortwave radios out in the garage: a panasonic and an old Halicrafter. We don’t call him MrFixit fer nuthin.
paigemom,
As soon as you said “out of context teaching” I knew which one.
MLD, Michael and Jess… FYI
“In Treatment” is on tonight. I watched it early, but it’s on again at 11 pm (MLD: 11 pm CH 201. Several repeats. Two 30 minutes sessions.
Paul (the counselor) mentioned the Bible tonight! He was counseling a very upset Sophie. He spoke about the New Testament, sin, God and how children blame themselves for their parents mistakes (sin). A child carries their sin upon themselves. A child believes he/she is bad.
Solus, like I said, I only read recaps of the episodes online (yes, yes, it’s really weird). I don’t have cable so I can’t actually watch them, but I am looking forward to reading about it tomorrow (hopefully, unless it takes a while to get the recap up).
Jessica-
It looks like you can watch online:
http://www.hbo.com/intreatment/
M, I am becoming increasingly aware of how “out of context” verse by verse teaching can be! I am also increasingly aware of how much fear has governed my life and relationship with God for so long! Sheesh! God is just so faithful to rescue us and deliver us and direct our paths in the “oddest” of ways. Eventually, one wakes up and finds that God has made everything, everything beautiful.
I had a great conversation yesterday with another former CC pastor’s wife who has gone through hell for the last two years. She is making similar discoveries and breakthroughs. God is so faithful, but sometimes the deliverance He provides is an incredibly brutal process. Alas, there is a future and a hope!
Jess, yes, it would be strange reading it.
I was very surprised Paul mentioned the Bible. It made me really happy for Sophie, and Paul. I was hoping he would bring faith into the sessions. That Sophie is an excellent little actress. She has me sobbing…
Have a nice evening, Jess.
paigemom,
You paid a lot for this new ministry…heaven knows that, however.
M, my journey has been a cakewalk. God knew I had to weep every one of those tears to debrief myself of inner sickness to be well enough to receive His blessings, and eventually tell others.
At the time, it seemed unbearable. From today’s perspective, I see the wisdom of God in allowing it, yea, designing it. He is so peculiarly creative and lovely! Compared to the suffering of so many, my experience wasn’t even a blip on the radar. For the gals I get to talk to now, 2 Cor 1:1-2 is totally real.
I am starting to realize that cc is just neobaptist.
Ex Dread
I don’t think we can pigeonhole CC anymore…there is much more diversity than when I was involved, much more thoughtful reflection within.
Dread,
After we’re done with Revelation I want to study 1 Corinthians…lets do church.
I’m just catching the tail end of Michael’s conversation with paigemom, so I’m not sure the total context of the verse by verse teaching, and right now I’m too tired to go back and read everything. I’ll probably catch hell for this, but here goes. 34 years ago, I had just finished my 4th year in pastoral ministry. I was moving to a new church in Central Oregon and I felt the need to change my way of teaching. For the next 18 years I chose to teach expositionally. I don’t regret it, and to this day that is the type of teaching that I prefer. But here is my problem…..IMO, too many churches are full of “head knowledge people” who can quote the verses, but cannot live the life. Sunday after Sunday, the pages of the Bible are being turned, notes are being taken, while pastors massage (hate that term, but heard it many times during my days at Calvary Chapels) the text. The people close their Bibles, walk outside the church, and then live life as normal.
By no means am I calling for an end to verse by verse teaching, but unless people understand that the church is what takes place outside the building, not what sits inside.
I would also agree with Paigemom about the dangers of verse by verse teaching being out of context. Like the political world, people in churches are wowed into a sense of awe over the verbiage of of some of the great pastor teachers today. We all need to be careful to measure godliness by what takes place in the life of the pastor when he steps down from the pulpit.
If I have broken in and taken this thread off topic, accept my apology.
Bob,
That was right on…really right on!
Bob,
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by head knowledge.
I like to think that if a Christian is built up in the worship service, assured of God in Christ’s forgiveness through various means, and receives God’s peace, that he will walk out refreshed and renewed. In other words, church is a hospital, not a gymnasium.
In Lutheran circles, we talk about living out the Christian life in our various vocations — friend, spouse, dad/mom, employer/ee, active in then neighborhood and community, church stuff, etc. That means taking each one seriously, realizing that we are saint and sinner in each, and that our Christian lives are cruciformed — Christ-formed, which sometimes will mean suffering and loss.
I’d be interested in hearing your observations, and what you see as the solution to “living it out.”
Bob, you got the point exactly. I must say that I am very grateful for the many years of verse by verse instruction I have received. At least I know where things are and have a fairly decent grasp of whole books of scripture. You are so correct that in many ways the verse by verse “message” is verbiage, information and not always practical life lessons.
At the time, however, (my 35 years in CCs) I had no idea how studying scripture verse by verse, with weekly chapter divisions, lent to “out of context” concepts. I can’t tell you how many “Bible Promises” I have memorized, only to now begin to see how off the wall many of these verses are for the circumstances I have believed they applied to. :-p
Again, God is SO faithful, so patient, so kind, such a wonderful Father! hallelujah!
Lutheran. Yes! Living it out…..at home, on the job, etc. At our new church, one of the sayings is: If your walk doesn’t match your talk, then shut up and get it right. amen
Bob-
Great post!
It’s our response to our faith; it’s the pastors’ response to their faith. If it’s not lived-out in life outside the church, what difference does it make how well it’s said “inside” the church?
And we need to read our Bibles outside of church.
If you only get the Word from the guy in the pulpit, pretty soon you give him too much authority because that becomes the voice of God in your life.
A great by-product of reading the Bible for yourself is that it becomes more apparent when the teaching has gone astray and/or the abuse has begun.
Lutheran
What I mean by head knowledge is knowing what the Scriptures say, but not living what they say. Being assured of God’s forgiveness is important, but does Christ expect “life as usual”? I think not. While I certainly hold to the fact that there is nothing that I can do to earn the salvation that Christ gives, I also feel as though Christ is telling me that “You say that you love me, now show me”. Words are cheap. We love to quote Ephesians 2 “By grace you are save through faith” but what about “Created in Christ Jesus for good works”? We need to know the Word, but satan know the Word too! Jeremiah put it well You are near in their mouth, but far from their mind.”
I Corinthians
Yes I would give that a go.
Bob said:
“Sunday after Sunday, the pages of the Bible are being turned, notes are being taken, while pastors massage (hate that term, but heard it many times during my days at Calvary Chapels) the text. The people close their Bibles, walk outside the church, and then live life as normal.”
This type of thing happens regardless of the church and the method of teaching, but I know you know that.
This is my greatest frustration as a pastor. I look for impartation more than interpretation.
Centy
I hope no one thought that I was singling out CC. You’re right type of church and method doesn’t matter.
Centy
What happened to your Harley?
Bob
He got busted for not wearing a set belt
I too am catching the tail end of a conversation between Paigemom and Michael and the expositional teaching conversation. I am becoming more and more aware that often times very little bible is truly taught in churches that claim to teach VsxVs.
Many of the pastors I hear on the radio, or on itunes, or what ever text textually at best. By that I mean they draw their sermon fodder from the text but it isn’t necessarily what the text teaches. Many use a piece of scripture as a platform to share comments on any number of relevant topics, or they just share random bits of information calling it vs x vs. I have been guilty of allegorizing the text but have made it my aim to study scripture to try and understand what the author is saying, and place his thoughts into a relevant context.
RE: Bob’s head knowledge comment. IMO his observation is spot on. Our culture is saturated with teaching (good and bad) as a result many have mistaken knowledge with the doing of the thing.
Well, once again, I got on when every normal person is in bed. Been a busy boy lately. Probably will be in the future too. So my time here has been and will be limited. But I’ll try to check in every once in a while
I’m still here reading what you’re saying, Steve, but I guess that doesn’t conflict with your “normal person” statement.
Jess
very funny!
Steve…your comment is my frustration right now. Our pastor seems to use a text as a jumping off point for something. In some ways I understand this, because he has a limited time and wants the text to be relevant to the congregation, so he basically skips talking about what it meant to the original audience and just goes straight to some type of application. The frustration is that there is so much time spent in stories and “sharing from the heart” that it is easy to forget what the text even was.
Hopeful
And the problem with that type of teaching is we are getting farther and farther away from the true meaning and application of the text. Through the need to be “relevant” We are deconstructing important biblical doctrine–a word that is not popular in many a pulpit now days!
“In the beginning man created God in his own image”
Right there with you Steve…Today people are trying to tell me that when Jesus said that His coming was soon…near and at hand that it really wasn’t and that it is still future to us…
Can you imagine…
I couldn’t even imagine being a first century believer that was actually receiving an actual letter from Peter that said that “The end of ALL THINGS is AT HAND.”
It’s amazing to think that he was been wrong.
Good thing we got it straight today.
Hmike
If expositional teaching is done right it is the only form of teaching that doesn’t rip verses out of their context and intended meaning.
Michael,
Think I’ll start praying about that one ….
I’m just getting caught up on reading … but wanted to add … I like Please Note’s idea!
Bob et al,
What about trusting that the Holy Spirit is at work in your parishoner’s lives?
I’m not trying to be argumentative — I know what you’re talking about.
But I think we need to be careful about thinking we know God is at work. What are the signs?
I’m with ya Steve. A don’t like spring boarding, although one of my favorite teachers uses it commonly. To be an expositional teacher, you must address the text.
It’s funny, I was thinking about this earlier this morning. The upcoming Pastor’s conference is covering some important scripture. I sure hope they do their homework.
Bob,
I knew you weren’t, but I felt the point needed to be made
ryan,
great point!
Verse-by-verse “teaching” that fails to exposit is nothing more than verse-by-verse topicals - but not very good topicals at that (homiletically speaking).
Mike Macon
you are right
PMike
Me thinks you scoff at me
Lutheran
Perhaps I should clarify: One, I am no longer a pastor, and two, I’m speaking in generalities, not about any specific church.
IMO, there is too much knowledge without application taking place in the church.
To answer you question about trusting that the Holy Spirit is at work in the lives of people, I do believe He is at work, but I also believe there should be some kind of evidence (fruit).