I'm so sick of Todd Bentley and his handlers I'm having a hard time expressing myself in any sort of Christian dialogue.
Here's the bottom line, what we have to say and say clearly.
This whole movement is false and rotten to the core.
These people are no more real prophets or apostles than some kid with a cape on is really Batman.
The movement is based on false theology and false practices carried out by egomaniacs with false, self bestowed offices.
Here's what Peter Wagner now says about Bentley;
"Speaking of the public figure going down the tubes, Todd Bentley now carries the label of a liar and a deceiver.
First of all, Todd has been removed from public ministry until further notice. He has resigned from the ministry he founded, Fresh Fire, so he is no longer a part of that board. It has become clear that he indulged in periodic drunkenness. He has no intention at the moment of reconciling with Shonna, nor does she with him. Their marriage has been torn for years by his emotional attachment with at least one other female whose physical contact went beyond hugging and kissing and holding hands. Enough said-maybe more details will be revealed later-but it was clearly immoral. All of this was skillfully concealed by lying and by swearing close associates who had observed his behavior to secrecy. Stephen Strader, for example, knew nothing of this before June 23. Apparently some of his board members did, but they did not have the ability to deal with it."
Think about this.
Scott and I knew about Bentley's immorality two months ago, but couldn't find anyone willing to go on the record.
If you really believe that these "prophets" and "apostles" didn't know about it, you're lame.
Stephen Strang, the owner of Charisma magazine added this piece of raw hypocrisy;
-Anyone who is in services 4 to 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for weeks on end is bound to have some type of breakdown.
-Anyone who covers himself with tattoos while in the ministry raises questions about his stability.
-Anyone who talks about the "Angel of the Healing Revival" that ministered to A.A. Allen and William Branham must have overlooked the fact that Allen and Branham both were discredited with moral shortcomings.
-Anyone who baptizes people in the name of the Father, the Son "and BAM" is playing lightly with the Holy Spirit and is bordering on blasphemy.
Many of us who long for revival saw the hungry people coming to Lakeland and witnessed the powerful anointing. We recognize that God can use flawed people (because He uses us!), yet we had major questions about Bentley. But rather than censoring him, we wanted to help correct the problems.
Now is the time for Bentley to be corrected. But it would also be good for Arnott, Ahn and Johnson, as well as other leaders such as Wagner, to issue a statement to the body of Christ to help the tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands who were affected by the outpouring understand what is going on spiritually.
Because all of these men endorsed the revival, it might even be appropriate for them to issue an apology. Some of Bentley's critics say an apology is necessary.
Strang said nothing until the cash fueled engine on the Bentley blew up.
Without the publicity he gives to these people, the movement doesn't exist.
False prophet and heretic Rick Joyner is now threatening people who are exposing this mess;
"The only thing that I have received from the Lord about this matter directly is that “those who rush to judgment will be exposed.”
"Those who rush to judgment, or are hasty to take action, are not treated kindly in Scripture, and are likely to pay a high and unnecessary price for it."
When all else fails, they threaten people with the God they don't know.
Despicable.
Joyner was right about one thing…the "openness" that some are espousing now is nothing more than men covering their hindquarters.
A pox on all their houses.
Wew! Welcome home Michael! A mess is made worst by attempting to make excuses for the mess. BAM!
Bob, did you just call Michael a… never mind.
Thank you, Bob!
“It’s the theology stupid!” (to remind us of past political seasons)
None of this has to do with Todd Bentley’s immorality. TB is an immoral heretic. So what’s the difference? Peter Wagner, Rick Joyner and all the others (including Strang and all of his publications) are moral upright heretics.
I said this a couple of month’s ago, all of this stuff that is related to the “3rd wave” and to “renewal” is bogus. How it keeps raising it’s deceitful head after Toronto and Brownsville (and who knows where) is beyond me.
This is pure rank leadership leading the lambs to slaughter. These guys do not teach/preach the biblical Jesus. They have made one up and sold it to people who are looking for a different Jesus, because the Jesus of the Bible is too hard for them to swallow.
I raised this yesterday to make a point, but after thinking about it overnight I will bring it up in this light. “How are these guys different than Jim Jones and his type. (other than not hauling them off to a foreign country.)” The souls of those who have come under the control of the 3rd wavers are just as much in danger as those who committed mass suicide in the South American jungles.
In the “spiritual” these guys need to be treated as if they were Jim Jones. Note that I said in the “spiritual” - because they have not yet done the physical damage.
The reality is this, it’s NOT going away. It has so permeating a certain segment of American Evangelicalism, I just don’t see any true reforms are possible in the short term. Many of these Leaders make a nice living promoting this stuff, and human nature is just geared so as to not walk away from the feeding trough.
MLD, I agree. Bill Johnson and others provided a platform for TB years ago. Desire for renewal cannot eclipse diligence to Word and Doctrine.
MLD,
Those are strong words…and I say amen to them.
Perhaps “renewal” means bringing back and “renewing” old heresies.
What the heck does renewal mean? What are they renewing?
I’m going out for my walk, back in a couple of hours. Perhaps I will interview people along the way - get the take on TB and the gang
MLD,
I agree with your assessment with the exception of “physical damage”. We don’t know how many hundreds of people stopped their treatments or stopped taking their medications because of Bentley. We will probably never know how many people died or will die because of this circus. I have no doubt the physical damage has been done.
I still strongly believe that those who laid hands on TB are equally at fault in this whole mess.
I’m sure Skip will show up soon.
LFT,
By physical damage I meant the suicide stuff. But what Bentley does with the healing stuff is no different that what we have put up with from other fakers. People I am sure have stopped taking meds with the Benny Hinn and the Oral Roberts stuff.
To me, the healing stuff of TB and the group, is their least offensive quality - never let that overshadow their deadly theology and their mind control games.
MLD,
If you stop treatments or medication that is sustaining your life, then it’s called suicide. I’m willing to bet not one doctor told any of these people they could stop their current treatments without any ramifications.
Yes, their theology is deadly and most certainly there was a lot of mind control games.
Those of us who rushed to judgment were exposed as - correct!
Right here, Bob.
You guys do not seem to understand how to properly word a “retraction”.
Hey Skip!
“The souls of those who have come under the control of the 3rd wavers are just as much in danger as those who committed mass suicide in the South American jungles.”
MLD, that is extreme… and the same could certainly have been said of Luther’s rabble or Calvin’s Geneva…
The reformation has had 500 years of correction and course realignment to adjust its errors and mistakes… do we really want to go over all of this? What has the Protestant reformation resulted in? State religions whose recoil has fossilized Europe into the most intransigent atheism on the planet. And you guys are reacting as if Todd Bentley has created mass genocide.
“Here’s the bottom line, what we have to say and say clearly.
This whole movement is false and rotten to the core.
These people are no more real prophets or apostles than some kid with a cape on is really Batman.”
Michael, that is an overstated rant. With which I cannot agree but which I totally understand. The movement is being rebuked and corrected and disciplined.
I will say this… when has another organization acted so swiftly to correct problems.
1. They brought Todd under authority…he was previously completely independent except for his puppet board.
2. They have stepped in to bring correction to Todd.
3. They are admitting errors…and Pete is doing the unthinkable he is openly reviewing the actions that he took and the controversies they had within… unheard of…
Now, to be sure the prophetic movement says TOO MUCH and verifies TOO LITTLE and is accountable for EVEN LESS… however, time and trouble will discipline all of that. The Lord has been clear that he will not be mocked and to speak for him falsely is a serious matter.
Anyway, I am pleased with what I see happening… what is to come is fairly predictable. First, the response of the Revival Alliance leadership to Pete’s openness and Sheets’ call for repentance will be critical. I expect some reaction to be defensive but conflict is a way forward. Second, some of the leaders like Joyner will have to give more account…he too is unlikely to admit error. But whatever he does will have consequences…these two factors could splinter our loose confederation.
Third, what is done with Todd is critical…I will go on record and say that he should have to make a living without ministry for several years before returning to any form of ministry. The severity of his actions will be determinative…I personally would call him done. But that will not happen unless he chooses so.
Finally, despite what all the leaders say, their actions on June 23 were tantamount to a public endorsement. To deny that is to make public statements meaningless and useless. Therefore, some form of public apology and or repentance is necessary to restore credibility.
I call for some form of charity from this body. It would be a good example for the discernment ministries. And it will be good for the soul.
Ok that is enough…
Always Reforming Dread
Babs,
Ok, you got me. I don’t know if I can hang on long enough, but I will check back with you in 500 yrs to see how it is going?
MLD~ If you espouse Bob Jones & Paul Cain’s manifest sons of god ‘never die’ doctrine, you could be around in another 500 years to see the end results!
But then again, that can’t be, because Richard Abanes is a closet Amillinialist, which proves that the rapture is right around the corner! LOL!
Scott,
I’m trying to be fair to my buddy Babs. If he asks for 500 yrs to get this cleaned up, I will not deny his request
When I publicly repented of Discipleship, my statement was, “I have been the instrument of a force that claimed to be the divine life, and was not.”
I was quite humbled.
BD, have you posted your personal statement of repentance over TB/Lakeland, or are you just calling for others to repent?
Skip, which one of BD’s public statements do you believe he needs to retract or repent of? He’s been open and honest in all of his dialog regarding this subject. As far as I know, he has threatened to sue or beat somebody up over this.
I’ve gained valuable insight into the mindset of the this whole movement through BD.
Scott, I trust you mean “he has not threatened”.
I am not calling on BD or anyone else to repent. I am just asking.
Skip, yes, of course, I mean ‘Not threatened’ I’m ready for a fish taco. I’ll check back in later.
Skip,
I wrote to Dutch Sheets and said that if he made his statement available for us all to sign, I would gladly sign it. I too am part and parcel to some of these things. Had I greater courage I would have screamed louder and earlier. This thing was definitely going to end badly.
So yes I am well aware that I am not without sin in this whole matter.
Let’s all repent.
“If you really believe that these “prophets” and “apostles” didn’t know about it, you’re lame.”
-Michael
—
I am fully willing to be called “lame” and even “naïve” if that fits the bill.
But your thesis is that Bill Johnson et al KNEW Todd Bentley was in sexual sin (and/or the like) or reasonably should have known that (and drunkenness too).
And KNOWING that, they went ahead and “commissioned” him.
Is that about right?
Or is it his “heretical doctrine” that they knew about? I didn’t think you were *just* referring to that.
IF that really is true (which TO ME sounds highly unlikely), I can understand why you think the “movement” is thoroughly rotten.
I don’t know these guys at all, so I’m asking.
Those downunders, they sure now how to speak their minds
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=UEDhDr61W7Q
“Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing
They have envisioned futility and false divination
Saying “Thus sayeth the Lord” but the Lord has not sent them
yet they hope that the word may be confirmed.
Have they not seen a futile vision
have they not spoken false divination?
They who say “the Lord says…”
But I have not spoken
Therefore,
Thus saith the Lord God:
“Because you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies,
Therefore I am indeed against you.
My hand will be against prophets who envision futility
and who divine lies
because they have seduced my people
they build a wall and plaster it with untempered mortar
So, I will break down the wall plastered with untempered mortar
and bring it down to the ground
so its foundations will be uncovered
It will fall
Therefore,
I am against your magic charms
in which you hunt souls like birds
I will tear them from your arms
and let the souls go,
that you hunt like birds
I will tear off your veils
and deliver my people out of your hand
and they shall no longer be a prey to you
and you shall Know That I am the Lord
Because with the lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad
Whom I have not made sad
and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked
so that he does not turn from his wicked ways to save his life
Therefore you shall no longer envision futility
nor practice divination
For I will deliver My people out of your hand,
and you shall know that I am the Lord”
Comforting words to those who are concerned for those who have been deceived by false prophets,
God will deliver His people
Scott…”let’s just wake up and smell the coffee…” Wow…he really nailed it!
I think that some of us that saw this heresy coming from “miles” off just simply want to hear that it “sucked” from beginning to end, from start to finish, without trying to justify the “pure” heart of the innocent attendees. Only in western culture do we try to “balance” everything. This thing walked, talked and quacked like a Toronto, Pensecola, Vineyard duck and SUPRISE it was. Chips fall!
I’m not that brilliant, but I too saw and smelled the crap coming from miles away. Got it at first listen and glance. Thing is, I’ve been through it all before, many times before. In the distant past, I questioned and was put down, patted on the head, and even yelled at. Pity party? No, just grateful to God that I ‘heard’ rightly. My friend who was in that camp with TB along with her pastor, is hurting, blaming herself for not “spending more time in the Word”. Dang, she shouldn’t have to feel guilty. We all “miss it” in some way or another. My flesh wants to kick TB’s a$$.
Someone told me that Todd already has a new job!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqk86IubQa0
And the hits just keep on coming. All of Todd’s so called “commissioners” are running for the hills now. It’s like a “let’s see who can wash their hands of this mess the fastest” game.
Yet, the people are still defending him. Todd’s “mentors” see it, his “friends” are trying to get rid of him asap - why can’t everyone else figure it out? I don’t get it.
Wake up and smell the coffee - how true.
I found this article tonight.
http://wvgazette.com/latest/200808270359
CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Charleston-based street evangelist Brandt Russo was in jail today after trying to hold services at a church in Lakeland, Fla.
Russo was arrested Tuesday at Lakeland’s Ignite Church and charged with trespassing after he tried to hold communion services on church property, said friend and supporter Charessa Wilkinson. Russo was in the Polk County Jail on $500 bond this morning, according to jail records.
An ordained minister, Russo decided to give up his worldly goods, live on the streets and minister to the homeless. Russo decided to settle in West Virginia after visiting the state on a religious tour.
Earlier this month, Russo took his vegetable oil-powered school bus on a trip to different cities he has visited to shoot a documentary film about life on the streets. Wilkinson said Russo decided to go to Lakeland after learning of the plight of about 40 homeless men who are trying to live in a swamp about 100 yards from Ignite Church.
Russo believes leaders of the church — until recently, home of controversial evangelist Todd Bentley — should be doing more to help the homeless men camped right outside their door, Wilkinson said.
Russo, who has been thrown out of or asked to leave several nationally known charismatic churches, is not above using civil disobedience to draw attention to the plight of the homeless.
“I encourage you to put on your wet suits, grab your surfboards and paddle out into the coming move of God. This could be the ride of your life.”
http://www.charismamag.com/cms/news/archives/082608.php
Now there’s an outpouring in San Fran! You would think that Charisma would just knock it off for awhile, know what I mean?
Stephen Strang: The Emperor Has No Cloth
http://www.strangreport.com/2008/08/emperor-has-no-clothes.html
Amen:
There is a great harvest of souls that have fallen into these scam artist…merchandizers of souls… soul scalpers… We are beginning to see some coming for deliverance now but there are millions.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6214617/TODD-BENTLEY-FOUND-Silvania-Machados-GOLD-DUST
Thank God for those are fearless and do expose these nuts
pat holliday
The ??? is spam.
what is it that gives you the right , to take a step and badly talk about someone , if you follow Christ and his teachings you should know not to judge other or to talk about them in a bad way for you are not being and representing the holy spirit when doing so. Just a little curiosity …
and what rights do you have to criticize a man , of God weather you don’t think so or not , it is not your place to become the one who Judges when that is God’s job , not man’s
Jimmy -
Try the New Testament. Specifically 1 Timothy 5:19-20.
everyone falls but it is not our place to judge he was touched by God … so why not instead of back talking show encouragement of some sort … I unno just trying to understand
the bottom line is that we MUST be Scripture-based and Scripturally correct in all areas. The NT is clear about ministering as a leader without your own house in order. Sometimes things happen that are beyond our control: kids raised as best one can turn to drugs or get pregnant, etc. But there should be guards in place. I find it reprehensible that leaders were so hungry for “spiritual” action that they deliberately looked the other way in this situation. I can excuse the poor sheep who were desperate for a miracle, for a healing, a touch from God. But the leaders - no excuse.