Fil sent me this and I really like it.
Your thoughts?
LeaderMan: Wants a platform on which to say something
Servant Leader: Has something to say
———–
LeaderMan: You almost feel you know his family, because he’s your Leader
Servant Leader: You allow him to influence you, because you know his family
———–
LeaderMan: Wants you to know he’s a Leader
Servant Leader: You’re not sure he knows he’s a leader
———–
LeaderMan: Loves the idea of the Gospel, and the idea of The Church
Servant Leader: Loves God and the actual individual people God brings across his path
———–
LeaderMan: A great speaker, but self-described as, “Not really a people person.”
Servant Leader: Makes himself a people person
———–
LeaderMan: Helps you find where God is leading you in his organization
Servant Leader: Helps you find where God is leading you
———–
LeaderMan: Gets together with you to talk about his vision
Servant Leader: Just gets together with you
———–
LeaderMan: Resents “sheep stealing”
Servant Leader: Doesn’t get the “stealing” part, since he doesn’t own anyone to begin with
———–
LeaderMan: Wants the right people on the bus
Servant Leader: Wants to find the right bus for you, and sit next to you on it
———–
LeaderMan: Shows you a flow chart
Servant Leader: Shows you his whole heart
———–
LeaderMan: A visionary who knows what the future looks like
Servant Leader: Knows what your kitchen looks like
———–
LeaderMan: If it’s worth doing, it worth doing with excellence
Servant Leader: Not exactly sure how to even calculate “worth doing”
———–
LeaderMan: Talks about confronting one another in love
Servant Leader: Actually confronts you in love
———–
LeaderMan: Impressed by success and successful people
Servant Leader: Impressed by faithfulness
———–
LeaderMan: Invests time in you, if you are “key people”
Servant Leader: Wastes time with you
———–
LeaderMan: Reveals sins of his past
Servant Leader: Reveals sins of his present
———-
LeaderMan: Gives you things to do
Servant Leader: Gives you freedom
———–
LeaderMan: Leads because of official position
Servant Leader: Leads in spite of position
———–
LeaderMan: Deep down, threatened by other Leaders
Servant Leader: Has nothing to lose
I’m not criticizing the term “servant leader” - but this was pointed out to me a few years back & it’s always stuck with me.
Grammatically, the term is incorrect in order to describe someone within the Body of Christ. We are ALL servants, called to serve as Christ Jesus served us. When we say “servant leader” we are modifying the term “leader” & thus implying we are called to be leaders…which we are not.
Instead, we are all servants who are sometimes placed in positions of leadership. Thus grammatically, the term should be “leader (or leading) servant.”
Again - not a criticism on the above…it was just an interesting take to me & places even more emphasis on the necessity to serve.
good stuff Michael and Fil.
I so desire to be a servant leader but I fail in many of these areas.
forgive me Lord.
I think I fall in the hybrid category - some things from both lists appeal/define/intrigue me.
For instance, I had no idea I was a leader until someone told me to turn around and see all the people following me (kinda creepy really). By that definition I am a servant leader - however I whole heartedly agree with the mentality of if it must be done, do it with excellence (especially when dealing with staff).
I would say Jesus was both as well.
I would also say that the body of Christ needs and has both, but by there very nature the LeaderMan is best known.
I like Servant Leader a lot more
That’s a great encouragement to all leaders on how to act!
TGIF
Thank God It’s Fil
So, I go to see what Lighthouse Trails is up to and there’s an article declaring servant leadership “new age”.
What a bunch of yokels…
the source is Brant Hansen’s blog “Letters From Kamp Krusty” which is a thought provoking, creative site. google it & give him a read.
Forget Lighthouse Trails - read the daily linkathon
http://briandblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/daily-linkathon-926/
Yokels?
Michael, you’re being kind.
I was thinking of some other words…
Michael,
so what do they espouse instead…tyrant leadership? Absolute Dictatorships? Bonapartism? I think they’ve been overcome by the fumes of their twin-candle-light beam.
tgif
Michael
“Servant Leaders” = new age? I can see it now……………….ODM’s will claim “Phoeniz Preacher Drifting Toward New Age!”
Well, I guess Lighthouse Trails has just proven that Jesus is New Age!
Lutheran,
I confess that’s not what I called them whilst reading their drivel.
To make matters worse, they had to intone the name of Neil Donald Walsh who was well known to Medford radio audiences for years as a two bit talk show hack on a tiny AM station here.
He was Bob White back then and he still had his head up his
Michael,
He had his head up his Bob White?
wouldn’t his name, then, be Bob Brown?
It seems to me that the ServantLeader (or LeaderServant) would really only work in a small church. If a church gets too large and Servantleader would quickly become overwhelmed.
J-menn,
taking into account the American brand of churchianity, you’re probably right, but, I think the traits of servant-leadership listed above would direct the person to hand off the ministry to capable folks, enable & equip them to be faithful about their tasks, and be their most ardent cheerleader. A church of any size could thrive with that type of leadership.
fil, I suppose it would
TGIF, wanna see an amazing football catch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiog29PrnlA&eurl
Jessica,
you weren’t saying that present reality (large church eats servant leader for lunch, **burp**) trumps the principle of servant-leadership…were you?
BrianD,
***you weren’t saying that present reality (large church eats servant leader for lunch, **burp**) trumps the principle of servant-leadership…were you?***
No, I was just making an observation. ServantLeadership certainly seems more Christ-like than the LeaderMan’s way of doing things, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is easy for ServantLeaders to become overwhelmed and burned out.
Ideally, a servant leader would hand off ministry responsibilities to other people, but the ability to delegate is not an ability that everyone has and it certainly is not inherent within servant leaders.
Regarding Servant Leaders in large churches, I’ve seen it done, but from what I’ve witnessed it’s quite rare.
Being a servant leader doesn’t mean a person is a wuss. The model of Christ is the one who turned the tables as well as washed the feet. He knew what to do at just the right time.
Our model for ministry comes from the fields where shepherds tend sheep. They tend, feed, protect and care for the flock. Whatever decisions they make are for the good of the sheep…even tough decisions!
Michael,
you stumbled me, by leading me to the lighthouse trails sight!
the article there said,
“The term “servant leadership” originated with former AT&T business executive Robert K. Greenleaf who wrote the 1977 book Servant Leadership: A Journey into the Nature of Legitimate Power and Greatness”
WHAT A JOKE!
THAT’S WHERE “SERVANT LEADERSHIP” originated!!!!???
And this guy is being given a pulpit to speak in???
It’s a dreary day when the “discerners” have lost the ability to “discern”!
Rather, “spiritual leadership” is the character initiated by Jesus in Johns gospel where here he washes the apostles feet, and calls them to do the same for each-other.
It was written about by many authors, most notably,
J. Oswald Sanders - Spiritual Leadership
Warren Wiersbe - On Being a Servant
These guys are hunting down “words” or “phrases”, irregardless of their contexts and using them as the means to launch their polemic.
So what if Robert K. Greenleaf wrote a book about “servant leadership”? Why does that this phrase which beautifully depicts Christ’s actions have to become eternally soiled now because some obscure “new age” author redefines it?
Man, there has got to be FAR BETTER usages of time than writing articles such as this LHT’s one.
I think the reason this list resonated so much with me is that it condenses so much of the controversy we’ve discussed over the past months, and for many here, years. Leadership style effects the practice of the church, but his/her theology/doctrinal beliefs shape the leader. Further, it identifies a number of significant characteristics woefully missing in our churches today.
Pine-head, Amen to the ’servant-leader doesn’t = wuss’ comment. Folks want some dynamic/take charge/visionary/idealist but then bemoan his lack of approachability…
Follow the Desiring God and Ligonier Conferences online:
http://theresurgence.com/desiring_god_conference_liveblog1
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/
I bet that Michael just can’t wait for the “Great Debate” to start in 20 minutes
God.tv response regarding Bentley & Lakeland
http://us.god.tv/
Jessica’s comment about large vs. small churches and servant leadership got me thinking. I think she is right on a certain level, and in usual circumstances this is how it usually works. A guy is a real servant, really knows and loves the people, relates to each of them personally, hangs out and wastes time with them, sits in their kitchen, and so on. People love this kind of leader. Unfortunately, a lot of people love this kind of leader, and the church grows. And as it gets bigger, it becomes more difficult for the leader to maintain the same level of individuation, and he then becomes more isolated and distant, as he tries to connect with the people from more of a distance, and now generally through intermediaries. The homespun fellowship becomes an institutional machine. And the people now have to settle for legends and anecdotes about what the Great Leader used to be like, back in the day. And something is lost.
Is this inevitable? Perhaps to a degree. It can be a lamentable byproduct of “success.” But I do believe it can be resisted, and the guy I have seen do this best is Chuck Smith. He has always amazed and convicted me by the way he cares about the common people, and those from whom he has nothing to gain. I could tell story after story that would illustrate this but anyone who has ever been around him has seen it. Two of the things he loves the most are Israel trips and retreats. Because these give him the opportunity to connect with the people of the church, and just hang out with them. He is not impressed with resumes, success, talent, fame, wealth, status, or credentials. I have seen him with some of the most famous celebrities in the world, and he was much more comfortable hanging around with janitors. I have seen him at the Harvest Crusades at Anaheim Stadium, giving more time and attention to a non-Christian usher than to all the celebrities in the Green Room. And at 81 years old, he is still the first one to jump into the mud with a shovel when a pipe breaks at the church.
But Chuck is a rarity, and such character admittedly comes with a cost. No one would ever describe Calvary Costa Mesa as a slick operation. When you hire people that no one else would hire, (not many wise, not many nobles) you can have some messy collateral damage. When you don’t Lord it over your “subordinates” they will often fail you miserably. A Judas will betray you, a Peter will deny you. But when the whole story has been told, even if it looks like your kingdom is crumbling, people will know that they’ve been in the presence of a servant. And that is life changing.
Sorry for rambling. As I get older, some things become more hazy, but others become clearer. Feel free to write it off as senility and sentimentality.
“God.tv response regarding Bentley & Lakeland”
Scott, it took them THAT long?
What a surprise.
According to Mike Anderson on the Resurgence live blog, the audio from each session at DG will be available for download (presumably off desiringgod.org) within an hour after the session, and the video the next day.
my 6:00 post - not a surprise it would take them that long, but not a surprise what Rory and Wendy Alec said. Not at all.
Quote from Sinclair Ferguson, taken off the Resurgence live blog:
“To be a mature Christian you MUST be able to bridle your tongue”
Oh boy - I’m talking to myself
Here’s my list of books I’m reading and have yet to read:
Death by Love - Driscoll and Breshears
Crazy Love - Francis Chan
Approaching God - Steve Brown
Concise Theology - J.I. Packer
How People Change - Paul Tripp and Tim Lane
Spectacular Sins - John Piper
Papias might want to check out this session…Ferguson is quoting Jonathan Edwards
Another quote, from the Resurgence live blog:
“The tongue has no ears- it’s the heart that has ears… A transformed heart begins to produce a transformed tongue”
Gosh!! I about started crying when I read the descriptions. Leaderman= pastor who abused me…to a tee
Servant Leader= my husband
It’s such a shame my husband has decided not to pursue ministry. The church needs more servant leaders…but he will be a servant leader as a lay person.
Makes me just cry!!
“The Word of God is what will begin to do it’s Spirit given work in us. God doesn’t save us and we do the rest. God saves us and the Word changes us… Christ himself will do the sanctification!”
Follow the rest at
http://theresurgence.com/desiring_god_conference_liveblog1
Dave,
That was the best thing written all week…
Dave,
As hacked off as I am about some of the things the Smith brothers are not doing or actually doing you are absolutely correct in your observation of Chuck. He never lost the servants attitude. Should we talk about Skip? Not tonight.
Is there any way to watch Dave Rolph’s show online?
piney, live. I don’t know of any archives that are available.
Is is shown online or through TV?
Just saw this on DG’s website: John Piper’s sermon library for use with Accordance (Bible software for Mac OS X)
http://www.desiringgod.org/Store/Software/798_Accordance__The_John_Piper_Manuscript_Library_for_Mac/
piney, online at
http://www.hischannel.com/
DaveR
I guess that is why it is so important to get the ‘ideal’ out there, so we stop settling for mediocre, and aim ‘lower.’ There is a subtle pride involved in having to step away from people because the demands are getting so much…the wise leader realizes it is time to find help, not shift the style to a more ‘distant’ mode. The Body wasn’t designed for any one to dominate, but that is what the celebrity model requires.
ShannonK,
thanks for putting skin on the discussion.
blessings, sis.
tgifil
BrianD,
That’s a tremendous gift for us Accordance folks.
Michael,
Did I ever email you an update? I can’t remember.
Gracias, BrianD
They have it discounted, Michael. You might want to pick that up quick.
one of the biggest issues related to leadership is follower-ship. In order to have a leader, people must follow. We entrust ourselves to the direction/vision of another and rally our resources to that end. Both models reproduce in its kind. Which style/application produces fruit that lasts? How many on the “City of Refuge” thread were done in by servant leaders? Which one would likely give non-believers the reason to inquire about the source of the hope within us?
Glad to be of help, Piney.
hey Fil…where did you find the info? are you disclosing your sources?
Shan K,
check my 11:45am for the gory details…I’m not any good at links, but I think you’ll make do
phlegm
Shannon,
You’ve left me hanging for a month.
filbertz, great words, very good!
Sinclair Ferguson’s message from DG is now available, for anyone who cares:
http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1412_The_Tongue_Bridle_and_Blessing/
So is the panel discussion with Ferguson, John Piper and Mark Driscoll:
http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1414_friday_night_panel_discussion/
I find it a bit ironic that Steve Camp posted here earlier, and that Mark Driscoll had the question asked about how he handles his critics
I don’t think that was Steve Camp…I doubt that he would soil his righteous garments by speaking to one like me.
If it was him, he needs to come back because I’d like to smack him soundly a couple times.
True. If it was Camp, I would have probably been rebuked for using the word “wuss” in the post right before his…
Just got in from the first day at the Ligonier conference. Johnny Mac’s message on the sovereignty of God and the existence of evil was worth the whole price of admission. More later. Gotta get up early to head back. Night all.
Hey Flip-
Thanks! Really…..
So tonight I went to a worship “event” with ServantLeader Dude and his church. Kinda funny cause I had to register as part of the group but actually didn’t even know the name of the church I supposedly “belonged” to…but oddly, even though I’ve only just met these folks…I do feel like I “belong” with them. I don’t even know their names really…but they know mine and they treat me like I’m part of their group.
I think part of that hospitality comes from having a pastor that is a SLD. I get enough Leaderguy/gals at work everyday…that’s the last thing I want or need in my personal life…
I haven’t looked through this thread, but I would urge everyone to see “Fireproof” this weekend.
It was a truly great movie and one that may save marriages and bring many to the Lord.
If the believers support this movie, it will keep it in the theatres.
Kirk Cameron did a great job..
We know the enemy is attacking marriages and families.
I think this movie is a tool God is using.
It isn’t often a truly Christian film, that clearly presents the gospel goes mainstream.
Please go see this movie and support what the Lord will be doing through it.
Thanks!!
Thanks Michael for posting. I’m going to share this with my fellow pastors here in ECity, NC.
Grace and Peace to PP!
Michael…whenever you check in I just sent you an email update to your wave account. If you are using a different account, drop me an email and I’ll forward it to you.
Love Ya! Sorry for leaving you hanging! Shannon
This list leads back to the idea of humility in leadership. When we believe that we “deserve” to be in the pulpit, the flock needs to remind us Who we serve. God alone should be served and glorified as we serve and lead the flock. When we take our eyes off Christ, we start to wander hither and yon looking for the path.
Heavenly Father,
I ask for your continued guidance for all those here that You have entrusted Your churches to. I pray that You will continue to guide and keep us as we strive to glorify You in all that we do. Keep us humble, Father. In Christ Jesus’ holy name I pray. Amen.