Where Are The Pastors?

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36 Responses

  1. Nick Cady says:

    “I keep waiting for the gatherings of pastors (online or off) to find innovative ways to serve those in hospitals and nursings homes despite the lockdown.”

    This is a good and valid point. FWIW, CGN has been doing live online prayer on FB throughout the day every day for the past 20 or so weeks. I lead one of those hours, and we have had so many people on there who are shut in, in nursing homes, and even in hospitals tuning in and receiving prayer. My church has online prayer meetings and community groups. It’s not quite accurate to say that these things aren’t being done. There are a lot of good, faithful shepherds out there doing their best to serve people in innovative ways, and many who care deeply about the health and well-being of their congregations.

  2. Michael says:

    Nick,

    Thanks for responding and I do recognize that some are doing well.
    What is in place to reach people individually?

  3. CM says:

    After both Covid-19 and Trump are gone, there will bring such a reproach by God on the American church, they will think it is the Tribulation. Remember the reproach of the solemn assembly from Scriptures.

  4. bob1 says:

    The truth is, Christ has come for liberty. All the governments of the world want to enslave you to get you to kneel and submit.

    Good grief. There are so many untruths just in these two sentences! Apparently Christ has come so we can be selfish and only worry about our own welfare, not our neighbors, too. Actually, democracies are different from autocratic and totalitarian societies. This is something anyone who’s completed a class or work in American government realizes.

    The ignorance here is appalling. It’s another example where assertions lead to consequences.

    I’d love to see one of these pastors debate someone who’s in the know, like Jon Meacham. I know it’ll never happen, but I can dream!

  5. bob1 says:

    Also another reason pastors should stay in their lane and not bloviate over what they don’t know in the first place.

  6. jtk says:

    (1) I keep waiting for the calls to fervent, intense, intercessory prayer for those crushed by effects of the pandemic.

    (2)
    I keep waiting for the gatherings of pastors (online or off) to find innovative ways to serve those in hospitals and nursings homes despite the lockdown.

    (3)
    I keep waiting for input on specific ways to minister to those who have lost jobs and businesses, and worse, family members and friends.

    (4)
    I keep waiting for discussions on how to check on all our people continually and minister to the trauma they are feeling.
    ————
    (1) Is happening. I’m a part of a group of mostly lay people, led by lay people, in the Duke City, that are doing this.

    (2). At least here, there is NO WAY to do this, in either hospitals or nursing homes. It’s not allowed. I’ve served the local children’s hospital in the past but nobody is having any of it.

    I’ve even walked through ER waiting rooms to pray for people-can’t do that now.

    I’d love to hear what IS possible.

    (3)
    I am DOING that! I’ve never had a better relationship with my neighbors on the block (several of whom I didn’t know or didn’t know well). Walking around my block and offering to help and/or pray has been amazing!

    The young members of our church who lost jobs have found ‘em. People are giving to each other as well.

    (4). Again, I’m hearing many locally and in other places talk about this. Phone calls, Facetime/Zoom, and in the rare situations, in person visits are incredibly helpful.

    We’ve hung out with young families with our young family via Zoom and it’s been great.

    The worst thing: apparently 31% of believers aren’t attending or even watching church online at all. Attending I get, we stopped for months, now have a very cautious approach.

    From what I see from other friends in other churches, a lot of people were in bad shape spiritually before COVID-19, and many are worse now.

    I’d be happy to discuss these things per your post.

  7. jtk says:

    I totally agree that politics MUST TAKE BACK SEAT.

    I’ve never felt the sense of urgency I have evangelistically that I have now..

  8. Jean says:

    “The truth is, Christ has come for liberty. All the governments of the world want to enslave you to get you to kneel and submit.

    Good grief. There are so many untruths just in these two sentences!”

    Bob1, I agree with you. Theologically, McCoy is advocating a modern day peasants revolt. I wouldn’t hire him as a Constitutional Law tutor either.

  9. Nick Cady says:

    Michael, here’s what I know of happening in my context:
    We have several people in our church who work as nurses or in nursing homes. We encourage them to minister to their patients, which is not always possible because of rules and laws in their workplaces, but we encourage them to pray and reach out to them.
    We have some members of our church who are currently in nursing homes, and they are reached out to by phone by members of our church, and they watch services online.
    Several large churches I know of, including CCCM btw, have gone to great lengths to give everyone in their database a personal phone call, checking in on them and asking what needs they have, praying for them on the phone, etc.
    Many churches, including ours, have encouraged neighborhood outreach campaigns, with flyers offering those who are sick, shut-in, at risk, or just worried – that they will shop for them, pick up prescriptions, call them on the phone, help them with errands, and pray for them. We made up flyers in English and Spanish and had people distribute them around their neighborhoods.

    You remind me of Elijah in 1 Kings 19 saying, “I’m the only one left!” – the truth is: there are thousands in the valley who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

  10. Duane Arnold says:

    “When any government goes after those inalienable rights, it is our right and duty to stand in opposition.”

    This is Christian nationalism, pure and simple. It also betrays a deep and profound ignorance of Biblical theology, Church history and ethics. It has nothing to do with Christian faith. Instead, it is the rant of a politician wrapping himself in an American flag and merely using his supposed faith as justification.

  11. Nick Cady says:

    Duane, Brian Brodersen said something a while back when people were giving him a hard time about not reopening his church in opposition to the state regulations. Someone asked why he wasn’t taking a stand against the government, and Brian said, “God never called me to take a stand against the government. God called me to shepherd this flock, to teach the Bible, and to make disciples. That’s what I’m doing.”

  12. Babylon's Dread says:

    Everywhere I look those things are happening and in far grander numbers than the small number of people found to be infected in churches. That number basically tells me that it’s one of the least places people are getting.

    What churches do only gets notice if it is obtrusively huge or offensive. The millions of beautiful things simply don’t get press so lets just leave that to the talk show hosts.

  13. bob1 says:

    I wouldn’t hire him as a Constitutional Law tutor either.

    LOL, Jean! Times 10,000

    The subject of this post is what happens, like Duane said, when you don’t know biblical, theology or church ethics. And also, a really poor understanding of American history.

  14. CM says:

    Michael and others,

    I do have a bit of good news. It seems that Jerry Falwell, Jr. will be taking an indefinite leave of absence from Liberty University from his roles are President and Chancellor, effective immediately.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-leave/index.html

    If it turns out that there was hanky-panky with that lady or if she was merely a convenient beard for his search for additional pool boys, then that leave may turn out to be permanent.

  15. bob1 says:

    indefinite leave of absence usually a euphenism for fired.

    Stick a fork in it.

  16. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thanks CM for the heads up. Yeah, like Bob1 said…he’s done…not soon enough either. Ever since THAT photo of him, Trump, and some other lady.

  17. Jean says:

    Righ now, I am so fricken pissed. I know that evangelical pastors are often in the cross hairs here, but I want to confess that there are LCMS pastors who are equally ignorant and non-biblical. The difference is that because their seminary education they are able to dress their false teach up, so that if one didn’t know better, one would think they are listening to Luther himself. Trust me, the following article is babble. But note, should you wish to read it, that it will appeal to your flesh, as much false teaching does.

    https://www.bugenhagenconference.org/post/concerning-civil-government-ordering-masks-in-church?fbclid=IwAR2PEqrkUBLT0M7IPZ30N4ZINORFmiZYZggvaJX6JJjgeVRojzoqcCMf4Lc

  18. CM says:

    Dan and Bob1,

    That is the usually the case. If so, then I suspect part of this leave of absence is making arrangements to have Junior leave the LU President’s residence, any sort of severance package, NDAs, other legal settlements, finding an interim Presidence and/or Chancellor, etc. Not to mention drafting the usual PR fluff explaining politely that Junior was canned from his job for life from a University started by his old man.

  19. erunner says:

    It’s terribly difficult to learn of the scores of deaths as a result of co-vid. I’ve heard enough pastors who have actually mocked and laughed at the idea of this virus, stating instead it was your typical flu.

    Here in southern ca. I’ve watched Christians gather with seemingly no regard for the virus. I would not want to be a pastor who may have given these individuals the idea they were in no danger. As a result believers are broadbrushed as blind sheep walking towards the cliff.

    I’ve watched family members make fun of those who would wear a mask all the while knowing they have family that do wear them.

    I realize that all that might be labeled as an evangelical do not hold to the same beliefs as so many others do.

    Living the Christian life before an unbelieving world and coming through unscathed was never promised to us. We all carry scars unique to each of us.

    May the world know us by the unconditional love we offer to friend and foe alike. As I tell my wife we are living in very strange days. God bless you all. Allan

  20. bob1 says:

    Jean, I’m sorry about LCMS. We know an LCMS pastor in Okla. and they don’t seem to be adhering to any guidelines. Sad.

  21. Captain Kevin says:

    Nick: Brian said, “God never called me to take a stand against the government. God called me to shepherd this flock, to teach the Bible, and to make disciples. That’s what I’m doing.”

    The more I hear from Brodersen, the more I appreciate him.

  22. Bride of Christ says:

    Brian Broderson was our pastor at Calvary Chapel Vista for many, many years. I remember he spoke of a great spiritual battle he faced while he was very ill for many months with an Epstein Barr type illness as a young pastor. Certainly this has given him a unique perspective and wisdom concerning illness and Christians. I am glad to hear that some Calvary Chapel Pastors are doing the right thing during this pandemic. Surely this will be an excellent witness to the surrounding community. I wonder if this difference in attitude towards government and local authorities will cause a further split/ divide amongst the Calvary Chapels? Post pandemic, will Calvary Chapels be less unified?

  23. Duane Arnold says:

    Jean

    Owing to my background, it makes me sad beyond words…

  24. Bride of Christ says:

    Mormons once railed against the government, who opposed polygamy, and they were literally driven out of their communities. Now Mormons have their children in public schools and are very careful about their relstionships with government and local authorities. I taught public school for many years and this is something I have observed. Fundamentalist Christians in opposition to their local governments have yet to learn the lesson Mormons learned many years ago. Jesus never called us Christians to make their neighbors into their enemies.

  25. Mike E. says:

    ERUNNER!!!! Good to see you, bro!!

  26. bob1 says:

    Jean,

    I read over your link. Good grief. What a load of supercilious crap! I guess if you use points (ABC etc) it absolves you from making sense. Talk about cherry picking!

    I also have to wonder if Luther would approve of these pastors seemingly knowing what’s best for their entire flocks. All I can say it, thank the Lord for the individual conscience!

  27. bob1 says:

    Can’t help if (former) king Falwell learned his gutter behavior from Dear Leader.

  28. Jean says:

    “The truth is, Christ has come for liberty. ” – Pastor Robert McCoy

    Okay, that’s a true statement of Scripture: “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.” One could even add that it is freedom from the Law.

    But the freedom Paul writes of is justification before before God. Before Him, Christians are free from judgment based on the Law. Christians are forgiven, pardoned, ransomed, redeemed, set free, etc. through faith in Christ.

    State and local public health laws have not been promulgated in any jurisdiction as works meriting justification before God. So, Pastor McCoy is dead wrong in citing Christian liberty as relevant to pandemic laws.

    Civil laws do not bear on Christian freedom at all. Civil laws bear on the Christian as a citizen in the temporal kingdom. A Christian could be locked up in jail and still be perfectly free before God.

  29. Jean says:

    I was having a conversation with a friend and it occurred to me that among the most despised clauses in all of Scripture today among conservative “Bible believing” Christians, and especially their pastors, is the following: “for he is God’s servant for your good.”

    You would have thought Paul wrote: “for he is God’s enemy trampling your rights to worship in any manner you see fit.”

  30. Robert says:

    PP echo chamber alive and well, I see.

  31. Michael says:

    Robert,

    You’re free to offer a different perspective…just as others have…in this thread…

  32. bob1 says:

    I can see it now — conservative pastors who’ve confused freedom with license.

    I’m sure the Religious Right will use these incidents as a sign of coming persecution.

    Spare me. If you’re talking persecution, then look at Dietrich Bonhoeffer, not at the current existential situation.

  33. CM says:

    Bob1,

    You know they will. Before the Babylon Bee jumped the shark at the beginning of this year, they used to have some good stuff. Since these folks may try to play the persecution card, I offer this bit of satire:

    https://babylonbee.com/news/man-unsure-hes-persecuted-hes-christian-hes-massive-jerk

  34. Judu says:

    There are groups of intercessors praying all over the country. I belong to two who are serious and praying and fasting about all this daily and continually. Unfortunately, local churches still often don’t understand the work of prayer. We may soon be left with nothing but Christ. We better know how to pray and the ten virgins better go get some oil. It may be too late soon. The other side of this is that we need to understand that our job is to do the work of the kingdom, not the work of the political parties. Too many are banking on the rapture to save them rather than doing the work of the kingdom. I have yet to see any Christian leadership in this country as to leading God’s people through this war.

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