Amos and a Nation Ripe For Judgement

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66 Responses

  1. Xenia says:

    You have presented the problem. What is your solution?

  2. Michael says:

    I’ve been offering my part of the solutions for many years.
    It begins with a commitment to truth and righteousness in the house of God.

    Like those who spoke in the time of Amos, I would have been better off keeping my mouth shut.

  3. Em says:

    typed a big old pondering ponder here and whoosh… dunno where it went, but i will take it as Divine intervention 🙂
    but
    BTW what does “never pass by” mean?

  4. veorge says:

    Long history of that. Settlers and govt kicked out the Moravian missionaries who were standing up for rights of the Cherokee. Then tbe Cherokee kicked to Oklahoma. Bur revival came.
    Biggest oppressor of poor is socialists who keep everyone poor through taxation and healthcare to control their souls and children and votes. Ever met a poor socialist leader or communist? Or Mugabe or Zuma? They lookout for themselves.
    Prosperity preachers are on TV. BUT who watches tv anymore.
    I want to know if any black preacher who votes democrat for $ in spite of slaughtering babies, will make it to heaven?

  5. Michael says:

    Em,

    The NIV translation is better…

    “Then the LORD said to me, “The time is ripe for my people Israel; I will spare them no longer.”
    (Amos 8:2 NIV)

  6. Michael says:

    veorge,

    You have hit the default button for too many…comparing American capitalism with other political and economic systems.

    That’s not the issue in front of us.

    The issue in front of us is whether or not the same conditions exist within the system we have and how the church responds to that.

  7. Xenia says:

    No, not blog solutions, actual solutions.

    What do you want people to do.

  8. Jim says:

    Biting my tongue on this one. 🙂

  9. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    We all have different things to do in life, different works that God has set before us.

    My job is to be a pastor/teacher and a reporter.

    What I do in my private life in response to these things is not a template for how others should respond.

    I thought there was value in seeing what makes God angry…as he repeats the same things over and over gain in the prophetic books, but I rarely see these things mentioned or preached on in evangelical circles.

    I still think there is value here…your mileage may vary.

  10. Dan from Georgia says:

    I wish The Christian Post would republish this, but hey, they can’t handle the truth you know! To them it’s all about gay marriage and muslims, while they continuously promote rich white men to positions of power.

  11. Xenia says:

    If we are concerned about poverty, there is no lack of opportunities. I am sure every local Meals on Wheels could use a few more drivers, every soup kitchen could use a few more servers, every church thrift shop could use more donations and for those who can, they all could use some cash. If we are concerned about the quality of education, every local library has a reading program for kids as well as homework helpers. Pregnant and in trouble? Every community has a CPC well-stocked with maternity and baby clothes, car seats, birthing coaches and often, homes. Most of these charities are either founded by Christian churches or peopled by them. Christians are all over the place trying to do good. Join them, they could use our help!

    Now “justice” is an interesting word. When I see the 40 year old man across the street who has never worked a day in his life, drinking beer and smoking dope from dawn to dusk, I wonder what’s the justice in that. I like this fellow anyway, but if we are really wanting justice he should be put to work somewhere because it isn’t fair that he louts about all day and my former neighbor of the same age who worked his tail off (as did his wife) could barely make ends meet. If we are going to talk about “justice” it will have to cut both ways, I think.

  12. Xenia says:

    What would the Prophet Amos say about a place like Detroit? what would “justice rolling down” look like there?

  13. Xenia says:

    Ok Michael, I won’t argue that your God-given role in life is, among other things, blogging.

    We are not all bloggers, though. In your opinion, what should people do? It has to consist of more than reading blogs and social media and getting upset. There has to be some kind of physical (not virtual) action that your readers can take?

  14. Michael says:

    My primary job is to teach the Scriptures and do so in a way that the Holy Spirit helps them “make their own application”.

    In this case the Scriptures are clear that God is opposed to certain systemic evils.
    It is not my job to tell people what to do in light of what they know…my job is to make sure that people are informed.

    Personal actions and attitudes are between the hearer and their God.

  15. veorge says:

    How the church responds? The DREAM CENTER in Los Angelesand lesser examples nationwide? Michael rezpond? My daughter interning ar crisis prsgnan y center. Respond? My wife hairdresser adopting black baby at older age. Samaritans Purse, Angel Tree. Hos many characters can i type? 140?

  16. Michael says:

    veorge,

    When we are speaking to things in the political realm, should we be informed by Amos and the rest of the Scriptures?

    I have never denied that Christians do many good works, but I rarely hear these issues addressed in our political discourse.

  17. Xenia says:

    My old CC sponsors a terrific ministry for men recovering from drug addiction. One member of that church owned a Victorian bed and breakfast in a nice part of town which he gave to the ministry as a home recovering addicts. Down the street they run a big, upscale thrift shop, appropriately called “The Second Chance,” which supports the work.

    Christians are everywhere, trying to make a difference.

    The Episcopal church runs a produce market every week and they sell fresh produce at wholesale prices so the poor can get their fruits and veggies. (This is often a complaint, that the poor are in bad health because they can’t afford good produce.)

    I could go on and on.

  18. Xenia says:

    The government is like a fly buzzing in my ear. Irritating but it does not prevent me, as an individual, from doing what I know I should be doing.

  19. veorge says:

    Michael
    The black ministers are full of political discourse. And look what it hZ gotten thdm. Detroit, Baltomore, Ferguson.
    After my and xenia posts, are you swinging a sword at empty air?

  20. Michael says:

    veorge,

    I’m not swinging a sword.

    I’m posting a study in the Scriptures.
    If you think that we embody these principles in our churches and this country today, I won’t be able to change your mind.

    You didn’t answer my question…should the prophets inform us of how we are to think about these things?

    You seem to have divided the world into two camps…liberal and conservative.

    The Bible doesn’t do that…it divides between righteous and unrighteous.

    There are both on all sides of our system…my job is to prioritize what God does.

  21. Steve Wright says:

    When we are speaking to things in the political realm, should we be informed by Amos and the rest of the Scriptures?
    ——————————————————-
    (Taking off my partisan hat)…Of course I think the Scriptures are our basis for morality, righteousness and living. The rub is that the prophets like Amos spoke in the context of the Law of Moses. The prophets spoke the most against idolatry (and its practices such as passing children through the fire, fornication and the like).

    So how do we speak in “the political realm” about idolatry in America? Outlaw the 1st Amendment?

    From an economic standpoint, the Law laid out a flat tax on ALL Israelites. Even I don’t think a pure flat tax is reasonable for America but that is how God saw things. Not to mention things like the laws of gleaning, restitution, a total change of our interest system.

    Oh yeah, and capital punishment for a LOT of sins….

    And every detail was holy, just and good…..for a theocracy….which America is not.

    (putting partisan hat back on) – The Scripture informs me that God cares for the poor and so should I. So I do, both personally and through the church I pastor.

    However, once one interprets a Christian’s “care for the poor” as supporting the government using its power and threat of imprisonment and wage garnishment to take more and more of one’s earned income in order to disburse it to others (after siphoning off a nice chunk for the bureaucracy and a variety of pet projects like Planned Parenthood or some unwanted museum in a Senator’s home district) – one has exceeded any Biblical guidance.

  22. veorge says:

    What we need are preachers like Dr Ben Carsons mother or Jerime Bettus father. Hard work and honesty.

  23. Xenia says:

    The thing is, I don’t think our nation intentionally oppresses the poor (setting aside various conspiracy theories). I think all the social programs were begun with the best interests of the poor in mind. I am not one of those cynics who believes welfare and other programs were initiated to destroy certain groups. So with the best intentions, and no intentional trampling of the poor, we have a situation in this country where many people are stuck, such as Detroit, which is iconic for good intentions gone awry. While intending it for good, injustice has been the result in many cases. There is no justice for a poor little black kid born to a teenage welfare mom in an inner city slum. How will he ever escape? Will he even want to escape? His schools are lousy, even though an enormous amount of money (again, good intentions) have been poured into them. This is the injustice I see.

    So I think our government has shown concern for the poor, they have just gone about rectifying in all the wrong ways. Back in the day this was something politicians discussed all the time.

  24. Xenia says:

    What is the godly, Amos-approved way of dealing with many of the issues that drag some Americans down? Medical costs? Price of prescriptions? Educational costs? Student loans? We can look at the crazy medical system we have today and all agree that it’s unjust but how does God fit into this?

    Trampling on the poor…. How much of the stuff we “can’t live without” (electronics, clothes, shoes) are made by slave labor in 3rd world countries? Am I trampling on the poor as I type this post on my computer?

    If the poor are being trampled on anywhere, it’s 3rd world workers who are laboring in factories making consumer goods for you and me. Even so, western Europe and the US went through a similar stage where workers were trampled upon and that’s why we have unions today. And because we have unions, it’s cheaper to ship jobs overseas to the sweat shops….

    Complicated. Holy Prophet Amos, advise us please!

  25. Bob says:

    Since the topic is pointing towards the “Law” or Torah it has to be made known God said, “…there will be no poor among you…if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God…”

    But God then goes on to state how to treat the poor among them.

    Hold it! If you listen there will be no poor and yet there are poor???

    There also seems to be zero entitlements for the poor with two exceptions, widows and orphans.

    Man! The application of treating others right is really difficult because even the poor have responsibilities to the community.

    Oh well I’m not that far from receiving my SS benefits so you young-ens don’t mess it up for us boomers. If it wasn’t for us there wouldn’t be any iPhones and such for you to worship.

    😉

  26. Xenia says:

    What shall we do? God has spoken:

    From the Prophet Micah in the Old Testament:

    “He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?”

    From the Apostle Paul in the New Testament:

    “And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;”

    —-

    We know what to do and we don’t need the government’s help to do it.

  27. Em says:

    pass by = overlook … thank you
    at what point does God say to the Church, i will no longer overlook your ways? i have our Lord’s msg. in Revelation to those 7 churches, but is that a parallel to Amos’ warning? – don’t think so … dunno

    i suspect that we, God’s people, are no longer going to receive warnings of an O.T. type beyond the wisdom to recognize signs of the end – – His assessment of what He points out in the make-up and conduct of the 7 churches may be applicable … dunno

    isn’t the consensus our nation never was a Christian nation? why would God judge/require the secular world to reform according to His revelations?

    however, i do think that this nation, at its beginning, had a Christian core – a God honoring pivot – simple folk who held the ground and had much to do with what was accomplished in the New World in the second half of the last millennium… but now it appears that the dogs have prevailed, permeating even into what much of those who claim to be Christians now call success

    for the U.S. of A., it seems from where i sit, that the ultimate end will be, at best, a European model (Trump-style) and at worst, another 3rd world of chaos rising … dunno … come real soon, Lord Jesus

  28. passin throgh says:

    You mean the Ben Carson who used fetal tissue from a 9-week and 17-week fetus?

    What a hypocrite.

    “As a neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson knows full well that fetal tissue is essential for medical research,” wrote Gunter, author of “The Preemie Primer,” a guide for parents of premature babies.

    “His discipline would have a hard time being where it is today without that kind of work. What is even more egregious than dismissing the multitude of researchers whose work allowed him to become a neurosurgeon is the hypocrisy of actually having done that research himself while spouting off about its supposed worthlessness.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/politics/ben-carson-aborted-fetuses-research/index.html

  29. Jean says:

    From the sound of it, maybe things haven’t changed much from Luther’s time:

    “For God the Almighty has made our rulers mad; they actually think they can do–and order their subjects to do–whatever they please. And the subjects made the mistake of believing that they, in turn, are bound to obey their rulers in everything. It has gone so far that rulers have begun ordering the people to get rid of books, and to believe and conform to what the rulers prescribe. They are thereby presumptuously setting themselves in God’s place, lording it over men’s consciences and faith, and schooling the Holy Spirit according to their own crackbrained [sic] ideas.” Martin Luther, Temporal Authority: To What Extent It Should Be Obeyed, in Luther’s Works, vol. 45, pp. 83-84. [Italics added]

    “…the temporal lords are supposed to govern lands and people outwardly. This they leave undone. They can do no more than strip and fleece, heap tax upon tax and tribute upon tribute, letting loose here a bear and there a wolf. Besides this, there is no justice, integrity, or truth to be found among them. They behave worse than any thief or scoundrel, and their temporal rule has sunk quite as low as that of the spiritual tyrants. For this reason God so perverts their minds also, that they rush on into the absurdity of trying to exercise a spiritual rule over souls, just as their counterparts try to establish a temporal rule. They blithely heap alien sins upon themselves and incur the hatred of God and man, until they come to ruin together with bishops, popes, monks, one scoundrel with the other.” Ibid., p. 109. [Italics added]

    “You must know that since the beginning of the world a wise prince is a mighty rare bird, and an upright prince even rarer. They are generally the biggest fools or the worst scoundrels on earth; therefore, one must constantly expect the worst from them and look for little good, especially in divine matters which concern the salvation of souls. They are God’s executioners and hangmen; his divine wrath uses them to punish the wicked and to maintain outward peace.” Ibid., p. 113.
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  30. Em says:

    #29… AMEN to old Luther … and Jean, too … the Church does need another Luther right now… maybe we have to wait for the two witnesses… the 2 beings that some think are allegorical? i pray that those who think so are wrong as i love thinking on this event

  31. Em says:

    #28 – i don’t know if Carson is a hypocrite, but we’ve got a little “rush to judgement” problem with that accusation… unless the doctor is also a bald faced liar, he has explained that when he performs a surgery (brain) a tissue sample is sent to a laboratory as a specimen routinely… a paper was published regarding some experiments done with fetal tissue and some brain tissue – Dr. Carson was involved, supplying the brain tissue and contributing in some way to the article, hence his name appeared – but the experiment was not his, nor instigated by him… he says that all laboratories must keep tissue banks of every conceivable kind and the source could just as well have been from a spontaneous abortion there in the hospital

    to assume that this sample was from an abortion mill is just that – an assumption – i would imagine the probability factors would depend entirely on the laboratory facility, itself…

  32. passin throgh says:

    Sorry, Em.

    We’re talking about fetal tissue here. Fetal tissue is fetal tissue — whether it’s utilized for “brain research” or for some other purpose. It’s still tissue taken from a (dead) fetus.

    Carson tried to explain why intent is all that matters. Then he proceeded to fog the matter by postulating the old right-wing saw that PP is out to do in the black population. Right-wing drinking game with PP: “Margaret Sanger,” “eugenics.”

    “Carson told the Washington Post that fetal tissue research is not immoral and should not be banned. He said that he believes Planned Parenthood should be defunded, but he declined to specify whether the group should end its collection of fetal tissue donations.

    Instead, he pivoted to his belief that Planned Parenthood’s founder wanted to eradicate African Americans, a characterization that historians dispute. “I may not be completely objective about Planned Parenthood, because I know how they started with Margaret Sanger who believed in eugenics,” Carson said.

    Medical experts say that fetal tissue samples help them study the development of the human body in order to create better treatments for degenerative diseases, like Alzheimer’s. Material from aborted fetuses was also instrumental in the development of major vaccines. This week, writing in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, one bioethicist argues that it’s immoral to stand in the way of fetal tissue research because that opposition undermines scientific developments that could save lives.

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/08/13/3691425/ben-carson-fetal-tissue-research/

  33. Steve Wright says:

    (1957 interview with Mike Wallace)

    WALLACE: Do you believe in sin — When I say believe I don’t mean believe in committing sin do you believe there is such a thing as a sin?

    SANGER: I think the greatest sin in the world is bringing children into the world–that have disease from their parents, that have no chance in the world to be a human being practically. Delinquents, prisoners, all sorts of things just marked when they’re born. That to me is the greatest sin — that people can — can commit..

    WALLACE: But sin in the ordinary sense that we regard it — do you believe or do you not believe.

    SANGER: What-what would they be?

    WALLACE: Do you believe infidelity is a sin?

    SANGER: Well, I’m not going to specify what I think is a sin. I stated what I think is the worst sin.

    WALLACE: Yes, but then you asked me to say what–and I said what and ah–you refuse to answer me?

    SANGER: I don’t know about infidelity, that has many personalities to it–and what a person’s own belief is–you can’t, I couldn’t generalize on any of those things as being sins.

    WALLACE: Murder is a sin…

    SANGER: Well, I naturally think murder, whether it’s a sin or not, is a terrible act.

    (I don’t care what sort of historian one digs up to defend Sanger, its not like one is debating the motives of Alexander the Great and forced to wade through whatever biases in the historical record of over two millennia. No, much like with the “historians” who comment in defense of Hitler and denial of the Holocaust – this is recent history. The records, books, speeches, are there for anyone to read – their own words and actions)

  34. Steve Wright says:

    http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/sanger_margaret_t.html

    (Meant to include link to the whole thing – the cigarette stuff is pretty wild)

  35. Steve Wright says:

    Anyone thinking like passin throgh won’t be swayed but here is Dr. Carson’s response to the political attack – since the attack is on this forum, his simple and clear response deserves to be there too.
    ——————————–
    I wanted to use our time tonight to directly deal with an attack launched on me today by the left and the media. A couple questions came in on this subject, so I want to address it head on.

    Today I was accused by the press as having done research on fetal tissue. It simply is not true. The study they distributed by an anonymous source was done in 1992. The study was about tumors. I won’t bore you with the science. There were four doctors’ names on the study. One was mine. I spent my life studying brain tumors and removing them. My only involvement in this study was supplying tumors that I had removed from my patients. Those tissue samples were compared to other tissue samples under a microscope. Pathologists do this work to gain clues about tumors.

    I, nor any of the doctors involved with this study, had anything to do with abortion or what Planned Parenthood has been doing. Research hospitals across the country have microscope slides of all kinds of tissue to compare and contrast. The fetal tissue that was viewed in this study by others was not collected for this study.

    I am sickened by the attack that I, after having spent my entire life caring for children, had something to do with aborting a child and harvesting organs. My medical specialty is the human brain and even I am amazed at what it is capable of doing. Please know these attacks are pathetic attempts to blunt our progress.

  36. Jean says:

    With a new election cycle ramping up, perhaps a review of “vocation” and and “2 kingdoms” would be helpful. Since we all serve in multiple vocations simultaneously (e.g., family member, worker/master, citizen, member of a church), keeping our responsibilities in each vocation straight can help one organize his/her thougths biblically as well reduce confusion.

  37. Josh the Baptist says:

    The lefties must be really scared of Carson – a new ridiculous hit piece on him today:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/08/14/someone-once-tried-ben-carsons-biblical-tax-plan/

  38. Josh the Baptist says:

    I have concerns that Carson is a 7th Day Adventist. I know they made serious reforms decades ago to get more in-line with orthodoxy, but I’m still not sure.

    Seems like a good guy.

  39. Josh – why did you find that to be a hit piece?
    1.) I thought it was a pretty fair assessment of what was done in Utah – he spoke of the positives and negatives and left it at that with no spin.
    2.) Isn’t Carson for a flat tax?

  40. Em says:

    #38 – It probably goes without saying that 7th Day Adventists are very involved in the medical field and have a very long history of providing top drawer health care – historically whether you could pay or not…
    i remember when our first child was born (1957), we checked out of the, then, Glendale Sanitarium on a Saturday and the business office was closed, they’d bill us later …
    how sound their doctrines of the Faith are may be open to question, but lots of us folk going to heaven will fail catechism class, i suspect… don’t think that’s an entrance requirement, tho 🙂

    sitting here surrounded by brush fires again – firefighters are really stretched thin and the smoke from their backfires has some communities on air quality warnings – living on a boat is beginning to sound good…

  41. Em says:

    flat tax = good, until the politicians stir the pot again
    consumption tax = bad … just think about it for a minute – in our state (Washington) the tax on gasoline is threatening to exceed the cost of the gas, itself
    taxation WITH representation is what we need 🙂

  42. Josh the Baptist says:

    MLD – you thought that was a positive, or even neutral piece?

  43. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – yes, but I will reread it.
    I read it as the 10% flat tax has been tried – worked for awhile and then the people found ways around it … bring your unhealthy livestock as your tithe.

    It’s like the people who bring the old sofa with springs hanging out, to the church as a ‘donation’ – and now the church has to call the junk man.

  44. Jean says:

    Here was another positive spin from the article:

    “It also helped to foster a sense of “pride in taking part in tithing” among poorer Mormons, Turner says, – the sort of ethic Carson sometimes says his plan will help engender.”

    I didn’t see anything that one might consider a “hit” against Carsen in the article.

  45. Josh the Baptist says:

    Alright.

  46. Michael says:

    I can see that I should probably set up a separate thread for politics as the election looms.

    I think I’ve figured something out that has eluded me.

    I am quite “liberal” on some matters, quite “conservative” on others.

    Those aren’t biblical categories…righteous and unrighteous, just and unjust… are.
    That’s what I will personally focus on…knowing that anyone I would vote for violates part of the equation.

  47. Michael says:

    Em,

    I’m still here because of a Seventh Day Adventist doctor.
    I was quite sick and very poor as a child…the doctor would make a fifty mile round trip once a week to make a housecall and make sure I had medication and help if needed.
    Dr. Howard Ferguson is with the Lord…I look forward to thanking him in person someday.

  48. Steve Wright says:

    If someone said Sanders plans had been tried already by pointing to some hippy commune community no editor of the Wash Post would run that story. Factually, the comparison is stupid because a flat tax would be paid with dollars, as all taxes, and would not be voluntary but rather backed up by the power of government.

    Frankly, I clicked on the article expecting to see an article about a city or even state that had a flat tax plan at one time through their legislature. I should have known better.

    If you guys think comparing a GOP candidate to the Mormons is not a hit piece, especially in light of the prior election…well…you would be mistaken.

    When the Post runs that commune article…let me know

  49. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Steve,
    Why would you have expected it to be a city / county or whatever. Carson himself is proposing a Biblical standard – so, if you are going to mix biblical standards and government, your are going to get a similar example tossed at you – the Mormons applied a biblical standard to their quasi government.

    Here is Carson’s quote – which you must admit is pretty dumb just on it’s face.
    “”We need a significantly changed taxation system,” Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. “And the one that I’ve advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn’t matter how much you make. If you’ve had a bumper crop, you don’t owe me triple tithes. And if you’ve had no crops at all, you don’t owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.”

    If you are going to advocate a biblical tithe as your tax plan, well that’s what you get. I think the writer is spot on.

  50. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    … and you have really done Sanders wrong. He is not advocating communal financing at all – and I doubt you will find a quote of his calling for communal living and financing while people do not work, like you find the tithing quotes on Carson.

    He wants people to work and he wants them to work hard — he just wants them to make a living wage doing it. Why would you deny people that. I found out a lot about the working poor dealing with my daughter these past 5 yrs – single mom of 2 with no support from the ex, me paying most of her rent and her working 2 – 3 jobs while going to nursing school. It was an eye opener for me.

  51. Josh the Baptist says:

    So MLD is a political liberal.

    And I’ve turned conservative.

    Strange world we live in.

  52. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am not a political liberal, I am one who is trying to understand the plight of people who work and are poor.

    Let me tell you, and I have done my fair share of it – we howl over social programs for the poor – it is not that much and not that easy to tap into. I saw my daughter try to get aid for her 2 kids and it was next to impossible – however she was persistent enough to finally prevail.

    If being for poor people makes you think someone is a liberal, well I think you can see why I pulled my registration from the GOP 10 yrs ago. (I actually affiliate with no party and my official registration is “decline to state.”)

  53. Josh the Baptist says:

    I’m for the poor. For social programs. Don’t know how anything I said would make you think different.

  54. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh, in my #50 I spoke well of the working poor and you came right back, called me a liberal and touted that you were now a conservative. This is why I would think what I stated.

  55. Michael says:

    MLD just made my day. Well said.

  56. Josh the Baptist says:

    Oh, sorry. No MLD, I saw you siding with the press against Carson and then taking up for Sanders.

    That’s where my statement came from.

    I’ve leaned liberal all my life. The Obama years are starting to beat that out of me,

  57. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – I think that it may be telling of what we have come to. I didn’t side with the press, I don’t even know that there are sides to take. In fact when I first read the article, I thought the guy was giving a featured look at how Mormon’s had done things – that is why I asked how you saw it as a hit piece.

    The Sanders thing is a little different. I am not really a fan of Sanders because he really doesn’t offer solutions – but he has done a good job of putting the spotlight on the issue.

    As for me, I am one who can balance 2 opposing opinions in my head.

  58. Josh the Baptist says:

    I think Steve answered how it was a hit piece well enough.

    My whole life I have railed against single issue voters, and how stupid that is.

    But at this point in my life, anyone who doesn’t have a real desire to drastically reduce abortions in our country will not get my vote.

  59. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – Steve didn’t explain it well at all. He just said the Wash Post wouldn’t do the Sanders piece … but the Wash Times would – if Sanders made that outlandish claim as an economic solution for the working poor.

    Carson on the other hand did state in the debates that he not only suggests a national biblical tithe but wants to do it because God is a pretty smart guy. Now, I don’t think the writer was mocking Carson – but he would have been warranted if he had.

    Josh, as a conservative are you in favor of a national biblical tithe?

  60. Scott says:

    “The Obama years are starting to beat that out of me,”

    At least Josh has the gonads to admit it.

  61. Josh the Baptist says:

    I’m not really a conservative, I was sort of joking.

    I’m sort of at that point with abortion and homosexuality where I feel like I have to do something. The Democrats are not offering any help in that department.

  62. Josh the Baptist says:

    Been a rough run, Scott.

  63. Steve Wright says:

    MLD, you are not that dense. Carson is not proposing an actual plan yet (nobody is). He is advocating for a flat tax, based on a Biblical principle…and seems to be pointing to the 10% level for that flat tax – based on a Biblical principle.

    Seriously, do you read Carson’s remarks as suggesting that if he becomes President, he would actually have farmers bringing 10% of their crops or livestock to the local tax revenue office.

    Of course not. But this whole thread began by asking if the Bible (and the prophets) should serve to influence our political discussions.

    Carson is showing how he is not just pulling crap out of the air and crying “fair share, fair share” but actually looking to a Biblical model to apply to some degree for a revamp of our taxation system.

    I get why the Post would mock him for doing so. And likewise why he does scare the pants off the other side if his campaign really got traction. He was in Harlem the other day…and well received. If the Democrats have a candidate that can’t bring that solid 90% plus black vote (with enthusiastic turnout) they know they are toast. And it is pretty hard to attack the biography of a guy like Carson – who serves as quite a model for a lot of poor families for their children to emulate someone besides LeBron and Jay Z
    ————————————-
    “Of course black lives matter,” said Carson, a retired pediatric neurosurgeon, after a lunch meeting with local leaders at the Harlem landmark Sylvia’s.

    “What I feel, instead of people pointing fingers at each other, and just creating strife, what we need to be talking about is, how do we solve the problem in the black community of murder,” Carson said.

    “For a young black male, in the inner city, homicide is the most likely cause of death. That’s ridiculous,” Carson said.

    “Most of those occur at the hands of other young black males. We need to be talking about, ‘Why is that occurring?’ We need to be talking about, ‘How do we instill values into people again?’ And those are family and faith.”

    (Amen – and he is the one Republican who can get away with saying it)

  64. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Steve,
    “MLD, you are not that dense. Carson is not proposing an actual plan yet (nobody is). He is advocating for a flat tax, based on a Biblical principle…and seems to be pointing to the 10% level for that flat tax – based on a Biblical principle.”

    Actually I can be that dense – but you astound me if you are telling me that what Carson or any of the candidates spoke of last week was just smoke and mirrors to get by. So next time, am I to believe he has any ideas since you just stated he didn’t really mean it?. Perhaps he should be mocked as a political con man.

    And you do know that by the calculations of just about any economist over the past 30 yrs a 10% level flat tax does not come close to covering our nut..

  65. passin throgh says:

    What a repulsive human being.

    A cancer has cancer. Oops, I mean, Jimmy Carter has cancer. Same diff. #tcot #gop #JimmyCarter #ACancerwithCancer

    No wonder the Republicans/rightwingers are in complete meltdown.

    http://crooksandliars.com/2015/08/disgusting-right-wing-tweets-edition

  66. Michael says:

    passing through,

    That sort of stuff will not be allowed here.
    What an evil word about another human being.

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