CCSPC 14 Day 1 Review

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41 Responses

  1. Truth Lover says:

    Wow, where is everyone?

  2. Not much hinges on what becomes of this sect. The end of the life of an icon signals the splintering of a group whose major claim to fame is blind adherence to an eschatology that had a shelf life about a generation. The any moment rapture movement couldn’t last much longer than its most passionate adherent.

    When you packed your bags in the 70s it fairly impressive to last this long. Ciao CC.

  3. Nonnie says:

    Praying for that Brodersen grandbaby and the parents and grandparents. I know what that heavy heart feels like. Praying for healing, comfort, strength and hope.

  4. CrucifiED says:

    “That sort of faux holiness guilt trip has long been the favorite tool of those who love the “no talk” rule.”

    It took me many years to finally understand this, Michael, but oh how true this statement is not only for those who don’t want to talk about things, but their way of handling every issue pertaining to living the life of a pastor.

    I think the spiritual burden I received going to pastor’s conferences wore me down more than the turmoil in my church. It at least made the burdens of the turmoils at church even worse for me as I went to these conferences. Instead of being spiritually uplifted by the gospel we were fed a steady diet of messages about the personal holiness of pastors.

    You always left feeling that the state of your church had something to do with how your personal relationship was with Christ. I can definitely say that there is nothing that drove me away from CC more than what I realized at the last 3 or 4 pastors conferences I went to.

  5. born_twice says:

    Attendance was going to be low since staying in the area of Costa Mesa comes at a premium $$$ Someone had to know this would be the result, it was plain as it could be. What a foolish thing it was to move it to Costa Mesa and disenfranchise hundreds of pastors. People could stay at Murrieta with room and meals for just a little more than the registration cost of this conference. People stayed home because they could pay the cost to attend.

    It’s too bad, it didn’t need to be at Costa Mesa, and it needed to be a Senior’s conference since direction of the movement is in such a state of flux. What it is, is a “future” senior pastor’s conference and it is to put the new face of the movement before the younger group.

  6. CrucifiED says:

    These messages became worse and heavier and more guilt ridden as the years went by. I remember hearing a lot of uplifting messages at conferences in the past but by the last one I went to there was hardly a message given that didn’t make me feel burdened with guilt over my lack of… well everything. They can cover a lot of personal weaknesses you most likely have at a pastor’s conference and how it affects your ministry.

    It usually begins by hearing vague stories about the latest round of fallen pastors, usually having committed adultery. Which is something to be concerned about in the life of a pastor I agree, but we spent the rest of the conference talking about us rather than the gospel and told you should resign from ministry if you’ve even looked at a dirty picture on your computer.

    The only way to redeem yourself was to go to the “alter” during the after message worship service so you can be ashamed before everyone. Other than doing that, your only choice is to keep it a secret and of course, we just sat through a whole conference of messages warning us of the dangers and consequences of your secret sins.

  7. Steve Wright says:

    In fairness to Kyle’s message, the lips comment was I think point #4 of what was a 5-point message and certainly not his entire discussion. However, even more importantly what you left out was he said clearly that if someone in the movement had a problem with someone else they should go to that person directly and talk to them about it.

    Kyle also had much to say about not being a personality cult and other discussion typically supported on these pages. And a little hagiography is not unrealistic at the first conference since Chuck’s passing – but even there it was said in the context of “Look, when Chuck was alive nobody really focused on the movement’s future because it was determined by Chuck” – which certainly was the case as was stated here many times.

    I would take issue as well that the idea of a “no talk rule” is presently relevant given as you properly report that the two men BEGAN the conference deliberately in the welcoming by bringing that up, and both messages thus far have had heavy inclusion of same…

    I enjoyed both messages and as always the blessing of hanging out and talking with friends and meeting new brothers is priceless.

    (Attendance is low, no doubt, due to the extra cost – however, I see both sides and it is not an easy issue. There is great value and I think improvement in openly encouraging assistants and young pastors rather than the prior caste-like system of ONLY Senior Pastor emphasis found in the movement (which I saw for many years despite CC service and even ordination for years) However, to open it up they had to move the location.)

  8. CrucifiED says:

    I did always enjoy Kyle’s messages though. I want to be clear I’m not criticizing him. He seems to be a good feller and he is one of those I think could be a good model of leadership for the CC movement. I usually found Kyle’s messages to be a good refrain from some of the others. I felt uplifted and encouraged rather than fearful after Kyle spoke to us.

    Of course, you are naturally going to get this kind of teaching from an evangelical ministry with a synergistic perspective of the faith, but I did notice a lot of change over the years to a less gospel centered message to a heavier emphasis on personal holiness. Or maybe I just wasn’t too burdened yet to understand exactly what I was feeding on spiritually.

  9. I agree with Steve – I thought Kyle’s message was a well rounded opener. I had never heard him speak before.

    I liked the interviews between sessions. As I mentioned yesterday, I got to see Corby Stephens who used to be a regular here 6,7,8 yrs ago. Steve, work your way into the interview room.

  10. victorious says:

    Babs. I encourage you to view A Story of Grace at 2pm PST Thursday. This captures “the movement ” that still continues among and through front lines servants always moving into new fields. Astoryofgrace.org

    Jesus puts up with the rest because of stuff like this.

  11. Bob says:

    I’m not a part of CC nor will ever be, but I see this lacking in the conference agenda, the break-outs.

    What do I mean?

    Most if not all organizations I have belonged to or attended have break-out sessions between the main evening speakers to work on various issues. For example sessions on how to use the various language tools available for study and interpretation, instruction about counseling, the use of the electronic media in a group setting, topic discussions and forums, the latest trends in whatever, historic context and more. These sessions/workshops are/where open work goes on, real knowledge is exchanged and relationships begin or grow.

    Maybe I missed it but this “conference” seems to be more of the same CC methods of using talking heads and famous persona.

    Where is the equipping of the saints?

    Oh well CC is what it is and as I started I’m not part of CC nor will ever be.

  12. Steve Wright says:

    Kyle is battling health issues (as was announced) and it was unsure whether he would even be able to attend the conference.

    I for one was glad he was there, glad the Lord gave him the strength to be there, glad he opened us up, and glad for what he said

  13. Steve Wright says:

    Bob there are more than a half dozen workshops (breakouts) on very practical aspects of the ministry…starting today.

  14. Bob says:

    OK

    I just didn’t see them in the list someone published here.

    I did attend one local CC pastor conference many years at the invite of a former CC pastor friend (he’s still a CC pastor and we are not friends), they did not have any breakouts, just a continues string of speakers, and some loud music. It was very boring and worthless in retrospect.

    I’ll butt out and leave to discussion to you since I have little good to say about them.

  15. Babylon's Dread says:

    Victorious

    OK

  16. I will say, I will no longer entertain any comments that would suggest that the Official CC End Times view is not based on the Left Behind series. With the surprise CCSPC viewing of the not yet in theaters new Left Behind movie introduced live and in person by Tim LaHayes’ son – you could say that this was the longest teaching session of the day and the most targeted.

  17. Muff Potter says:

    How come there’s never any women speakers at these sorts of things?

  18. Shaun Sells says:

    Hey Steve, I would love to meet you if you are available during the conference. Or anyone else from PP that is here.

  19. Bob says:

    “How come there’s never any women speakers at these sorts of things?”

    This is a “pastor’s conference.” 😉

    MLD is this sarcasm or are they really playing some new movie?

    Probably sarcasm..

    😐

  20. Muff Potter says:

    Oops, sorry Bob, I almost forgot, Paul sez no wimminz allowed.

  21. Bob,
    Nope, they announced yesterday during the afternoon session that they were screening the new Left Behind movie with Nicolas Cage and that Tim LaHayes’ son was there to introduce the movie.

    http://www.leftbehindmovie.com/

  22. I think they showed it last night – 2 hours uninterrupted last days training.

    I swear, watching the trailer was just like reading the Bible. 😉 (sarcasm)

  23. Bob says:

    MLD

    While I really disliked the books, couldn’t get through just one, and hated, no laughed, my way through the first movie, I do like cage.

    This could be better than Noah and just think of “The Rock” and how he saved San Fran with the help of James Bond.

    Oh well I’ve had enough fun. They can say what they want and enjoy patting and flogging themselves on the back at the same time.

    It is interesting how they brought in one of my favorite preachers to end the show, and he’s Reformed on top of it. Hmmmm could this mean something?

    Naw I’ll bet it’s just because he loves golf.

  24. Actually I think they are doing a good job for what they are doing. Right now Don McClure is preaching. When I first was saved at CC Riverside in 1981, McClure came over from Redlands to preach and i thought he was so dynamic.

    All these years later, a couple of strokes, the loss of an eye and the loss of a lung, the old guy is still going strong.

  25. Levi Lusko’s session this morning was quite powerful! He challenged the pastors and leaders to be suitable landing zones for the dove (not the CC dove symbol, but the Holy Spirit.), and if they keep trying to keep everything the way it was and shut out those who do things differently, they’ll become proud owners of a walled graveyard. Wow!

  26. nancy says:

    All of this has left me with one thought … & that’s to pray for the Brodersen’s grandchild …

  27. Nonnie says:

    Amen, Nancy!

  28. tbro says:

    How does an exhortation from a godly man to be like Jesus Christ and to speak with Christ-like lips degenerate into a faux holiness? If Jesus isn’t the epitome and essence of holiness, what does a genuine holiness look like?

    If it was accompanied by a list of rules – no R rated movies, no alcohol, no tobacco, ad nauseum, I would readily concede the point. It smacked nothing of that.

    There was no hint of a no-talk rule or some kind of gag order – to suggest this is intellectual dishonesty. When we are exhorted to not talk about a brother, but talk to the brother, this is wisdom.

    Tim Brown, Pastor
    Calvary Chapel Fremont, CA
    Conference attendee

  29. victorious says:

    Whenever I hear Damian Kyle speak I am renewed in the fear of The Lord and encounter the ascended Jesus in the Spirit where I am reminded that the guilt and stain of sin is overcome by His mercy and the gift of holiness is renewed by His grace.

    Looking forward to hearing a replay of this message since I missed it. Anybody remember hearing his testimony embedded in his message from Ephesians at a past SPC; ” but God who is rich in mercy?”

    What was the thrust of McClure’s message?

  30. Michael says:

    tbro,

    The gag order and the no talk rule have been part of the fiber of CC culture for forty years.
    To suggest otherwise is not intellectually dishonest, but utterly dishonest.

    I hear things with an informed background…and rules are on the way.

    His sermon was exceedingly well crafted…and those who commented to me found it to lack grace and impose a sneaky works righteousness.

    “The unity of the movement depends on your morning devotions”…seriously?

  31. Michael says:

    I’ve been offline most of the day and will be for most of the rest…I’ll do an update on today later tonight.

  32. tbro says:

    Michael,

    Calvary Chapel is not monolithic in its culture. The circles I run in speak freely and frankly of the cleavages and rumored cleavages in the movement.

    Jaded ears will hear what they will and sound byte criticism on a blog is just as malevolent as it is in the evening news.

    May you hear with the ears of Christ.
    May you see with the eyes of Christ.
    May you think with the mind of Christ.

    …may you be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

    Tim Brown, Pastor
    Calvary Chapel Fremont, CA

  33. Michael says:

    Tim,

    I’ll give you extra credit for using “malevolent”.

  34. Dodger Dog says:

    I think Damian’s message was what was needed at this time. There is no guile in this man’s heart, he preaches Jesus and lives what he teaches. He is very respected for being an authentic pastor. So many lenses to view the conference through. Michael, you used your lens, my lens is more of heartache over the mistakes of the past and what does God have for the future of CCCM? I think the theme of holiness is very much needed and required for any pastor to please the Lord, for He, naturally, is holy. We are told in scripture to be like Him. We must strive as leaders to be like Him in all ways at all times.

  35. victorious says:

    Michael,

    I would give greater weight to those who have the breadth of experience interacting with Damian Kyle as a pastor and a bible teacher.

    Unless of course you have an interview with Damian in which he describes how he is going to weave political persuasion with biblical content and make it come off like every other teaching he is known for.

    Maybe you have someone who claims they bought Damian off with an In and Out gift card? 🙂

    Seriously, if you spent some time listening to Damian you might find a brother in arms who has been healed by the grace of God coming out of a similar background as yourself.

    The politics and tactics of persuading closed door and highly regulated discussion may be lurking in some circles. I highly doubt they are present in the pulpit ministry of Damian Kyle

    Sorry for the tongue in cheek but I thought that Tim Brown answered you adequately and in love and you seemed to miss that .

    Blessings

  36. Rick says:

    It has been a generation (late 70’s) since I regularly attended a Calvary Chapel before entering the military. I benefited greatly from the teaching and fellowship there, though within several years of leaving Southern California (2 years spent overseas in Germany), my theology had changed profoundly. I was no longer a free-will, pre-tribulation rapturist, dispensationalist futurist.

    I think the rapid growth, coupled with the distance from historical church structure, of many of the popular church movements of that day manifested problems in the theology of leadership of those groups. Too much emphasis on the local and extra-local main personalities–and an overall lack of maturity in the body at large to question and discern leadership decisions.

    It is somewhat amazing the run they have had–perhaps what we are seeing, finally, is an awakening of the movement’s leaders to a more transparent, biblical and humble leadership paradigm (I know, I hate that word too). Its going to be noisy while things shake out, but I am hopeful for them.

  37. Steve Wright says:

    “The unity of the movement depends on your morning devotions”…seriously?
    —————————————————————–
    I actually don’t remember that line but I remember the context of when it must have been delivered and that context was the illustration of the tuning of an orchestra to one instrument, rather than trying to tune all the instruments to each other.

    How if each pastor is seeking Jesus and His will for their life and church, then there will be unity – it is a solid point and one I agree with 100%. In fact, I have used it myself in different contexts….

  38. Steve Wright says:

    Shaun…I too would love to meet you face to face. I will be there Wednesday through the Q&A panel, and will try to hover around the front of the sanctuary (outside by the info kiosk) during the breaks.

    6’5 and will be wearing glasses. And my hair is still brown and on my head so that should narrow the choices 😉

    Had a great visit with one of our old regulars the first day for a couple hours before the conference started, and have had a chance to speak with a few other PP’ers

  39. DavidM says:

    I’ve been a part of these things for decades. I have to say that I am very encouraged by what I have seen and heard these first 2 days, particularly in terms of honesty about the shortcomings and failings of the movement and of Chuck as well (though said respectfully by both Brian and Dave Rolph). I was encouraged by hearing that the CC’s should gladly embrace our brethren of different styles and theologies, that we should see the church with a capital C, not the sort of parochial small c as if we’re the best and most relevant. I have never seen such honesty in one of these conferences. The breakout this afternoon with Rolph, Guzik, and Stipe was brilliant, the subject being transition: accepting that at some point is will happen in one’s church, preparing for it, anticipating it, and knowing when it is time to hand off the baton.

    I have been a skeptic, justifiable so for many years about the CCSPC’s, but I am glad to see what is going on this year.

    Of course, some things will maybe never change: look at the slate of speakers. Top-heavy with the usual mega-church guys. But, based on what I’ve seen so far, maybe that will change in the future. We’ll see.

  40. Steve Wright says:

    DavidM, I was just logging on to encourage any CC guys reading to try and go to the Rolph, Stipe, Guzik workshop tomorrow if they missed it today. An excellent meeting.

    I second your observations about the conference as a whole as well.

  41. DavidM says:

    Yes, very refreshing. I am more hopeful for the future of CC.

    BTW, sorry about the typos and misspelled words: long day!

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