CCSPC 15

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130 Responses

  1. Laura Scott says:

    That did my battered little heart a lot of good. 🙂

  2. Michael says:

    Laura…mine too. 🙂

  3. pstrmike says:

    Great observations. May they do well in growing in God’s grace rather than being encrusted in the old nature.

  4. Anne says:

    Well stated hopeful observations, Michael. Thanks!

  5. Michael says:

    pstrmike, Anne…thanks.

    I feel hopeful…but I usually feel that way after watching Pete. 🙂

  6. covered says:

    I agree that Brian is making a statement. As I have said here before, Brian is not the problem with CC. While we can praise some important changes, more need to come.

  7. London says:

    Did Pete give up his Longmont church and go back to CC?

  8. Disillusioned says:

    ‘When you bring in pastors wives, you bring in another influential voice’
    Indeed. However, that is not necessarily a good thing. I have seen CC pastors wives running the show and calling the shots, and it wasn’t pretty. Not because they are women, mind you, but because they put up a vestige of being meek and submissive in public, and were scheming and manipulative in private.

  9. Michael says:

    London,

    Pete ended up in Australia… and that’s where he’s headed back to.

  10. Michael says:

    covered,

    There will be no group wide changes as there is no one with the gravitas to demand them.

    The old canard about “we’re all independent” is finally true.

  11. London says:

    Oh. Had no idea.
    Thanks

  12. Captain Kevin says:

    I was at the conference for the first time. With the exception of the aforementioned inerrancy wonk, I enjoyed all of it. I got a chance to talk to BB. Very approachable and easy to talk to.
    Also got to spend a few minutes with Bill Walden. Just as genuine as I expected him to be. 🙂

  13. Michael says:

    Walden genuinely despises me…

  14. Donn says:

    Glad that Pete Nelson closed it out. Not all the old guard is against guys like him. Joe Focht had him speak and be part of a panel at the 2014 East Coast CC conference. He was among several that were new faces/voices that either spoke or were part of a panel.

  15. Pineapple Head says:

    My connection to the PP was a result of the Pete Nelson situation at ABQ. I was going through a similar situation (on a much smaller scale) at the time, and was heartened by the way Pete was willing to walk humbly, yet boldly, in a tough situation.

  16. CrucifiED says:

    I did not see any of the conference. What about the inerrancy speaker was… wonky?

  17. Michael says:

    CrucifiED,

    Almost everything.
    Inerrancy has become a theological wax nose that can be twisted to mean lots of things.
    You have to define your terms.
    He didn’t.
    Most wonky to me was the inference that some unidentified ‘they” are conducting “psychological operations” to convince people to dump the concept.
    Add to that the reiteration numerous times to stay away from “any” seminary and you have “Hee Haw Meets The X-Files”.

  18. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    I would hardly call Brian Broderson a victim of anything. He has made out quite well inheriting the Chuck Smith kingdom. Now Brian can continue with profiting off the gospel the way it should be in lukewarm American Christendom by his giving of fair speeches and enticing words and ecumenical holding of hands with the idolatrous Mary worshipping catholic church.

  19. Erunner says:

    If I recall correctly Pete Nelson had cancer some time after leaving CCABQ?

  20. Lad says:

    I have been attending these for the past 5 years or so. For me, this one was the best conference yet, which is interesting because I found last year’s to be extremely discouraging. I never really had an opinion one way or the other on Broderson, but I am really growing to respect him greatly and am personally unaware of anyone in CC who could do as good a job leading/navigating as he is….and last time I checked, I’m not in cahoots with the RCC.

    If I had to pick a side, I guess I am “old guard” but such a nobody that I highly doubt anyone cares what I think anyway. I also happen to have studied “religion” in college (not CCBC), earned a M.Div., and am under 40 years old so I am kinda a black sheep in most regards (I say all this just to give light to my perspective…take it for what it is worth). I personally really appreciated the over-all spirit of this conference and very much liked what I heard from most in regards to the recent Supreme Court rulings. I was particularly encouraged by Pete Metzger and found Mike McClure to have likely been the most humble and insightful man given a microphone the whole week. I hope for more opportunities for him, and for God to be glorified in and through the movement.

    FWIW, there was a lady “picketing” with a sign warning people that a CC pastor had been arrested for murder. On the back from dinner one night I saw an older couple from the conference who were talking with her and it looked like they were laughing together. Not exactly jack-booted thugs—-perhaps this best summed up my observations of the “spirit” of those in attendance.

  21. Michael says:

    Erunner,

    No, his wife Angie was the one who took ill.

  22. Erunner says:

    Thanks Michael.

  23. A Friend says:

    Good to hear about the picketing!

  24. A Friend says:

    And SolRod delivers some troof!

    Ouch, the truth is like a sword.

    Brodersen’s nothing special. He is getting very rich and powerful from commandeering the throne, but he’s not as big a doosh as the old regime, so he’s got that going for him.

  25. Michael says:

    A Friend,

    That is not acceptable here.
    If we want to be heard, we have to speak responsibly.

  26. A Friend says:

    You aren’t being heard, you are being placated.

  27. A Friend says:

    Actually, maybe you are being heard to a degree.

    There are some notable changes….and Pete Nelson closing this years dog and pony show was a direct Bob Grenier hit right to the face of Skip Heitzig.

  28. Michael says:

    Yes, I am being heard.
    We’re all being heard.
    This is going to take years,not days.

  29. A Friend says:

    Positives:

    Less celebrity-driven, less celebrity-focused, much less.

    New voices, some like Metzger with really good messages. I like Fermin’s stuff as well…though it is all talk in CC, they don’t really do it, but it was a good speech.

    More emphasis on family and wives was good stuff. I liked that the message was solidly Pro-family with ministry correctly in 2nd or 3rd position.

  30. A Friend says:

    More Positives:

    The really good dudes in the “Movement’ got a lot of air time:

    Guzik is a good dude. No smoke there. Never have heard one bad thing about the guy and I hear most everything (as do you).

    Bob Caldwell. Solid guy. I actually like him as a person. His franchise has a great reputation in our area, as does Bob. I wish he’d exercise more leadership and oversight in his “Movement”…but that’s about all I have against him.

    Ken Sutton, Kellen Criswell, Josh Turansky…they seem like good dudes. I like their approach. They have good reputations….they they exercise more “church discipline” on their comments sections than they do to their “Affiliated” CC Pastors.

    Phil Metzger…love that dude. What a great demeanor and great attitude about the privilege of serving God and his heart for regular dirty messy sinners.

    Fermin was a good legalist…not a knock on him…you need that holiness guy on your team…and his demeanor was refreshing as well. He laid it down firm, but in a humble and self-introspective manner. It had a little power except that CC doesn’t do what he was preaching took any power away from that message.

  31. A Friend says:

    More Positives:

    The transparency of the event and the rhetoric and emphases etc is good. Transparency is healthy. I hope they keep expanding in that direction.

    Cults are not transparent. Bad churches are not transparent.

    Even though Farnell is a smug Master’s College dork and pretty much sucked IMO (and I am a Master’s College alum)…and even though he made the case for your “correct doctrine” and “bible inerrancy” being your god….I thought it a net positive b/c it was a voice from outside the CC bubble…again…healthy. Good for the contrast. I think it was a good example for CC pastors “not” to become…but still healthy to see that there are different flavors of Christian out there in the big wide Tent of “Thus Sayeth the Lord!” Farnell and Master’s are the smug “Lordship Salvation Correct Doctrine but Rapture!” wing of the Tent.

  32. Michael says:

    There is no “CC”.

    As long as we keep that myth alive progress will be all the more difficult.
    There is finally true independence and these guys are the potential new leaders.
    Those guys you mention, according to all I know, live what they preach.
    They are the foundation that will be here when the old guys and the old ways are gone.

    We need to get behind them, support them, and believe the best about them, while being fully aware that there is another group that would love to see them disappear.

    When the bad guys are bad, that’s when to get the guns out.
    When you see what we saw from this group, this week, the worst thing we can do is take potshots in general.

  33. A Friend says:

    “the worst thing we can do is take potshots in general.”

    No, that is not the worst thing you could do 🙂

    But, OK, I get the gist.

  34. A Friend says:

    More Positives:

    Assistants being invited, good stuff.

    Women helping run the show, good stuff.

    Women’s panel, good stuff.

    PK’s panel, though lame, was a good idea…but sometimes stuff isn’t executed well or the talent is lame.

  35. A Friend says:

    More Positives:

    I think I saw three black dudes. That’s about a 200% increase.

  36. A Friend says:

    …the token black CC pastor was getting pretty lonely during Chuck’s reign.

  37. A Friend says:

    More Positives:

    The worship is always good. It’s like CC’s thing.

    Much less Chuck-worship.

    The Gay Marriage issue was handled in a gracious manner…though I’m ready to pivot on that issue for political purposes.

  38. Michael says:

    I’ve spent the last four hours answering emails from readers I never knew I had who wanted help understanding the changes that are happening in CC and who wanted to know why I dislike some folks I’m known for disliking.

    It’s the biggest response to a CCSPC ever…at least since Greg Laurie told everyone not to read the blog.

    The door is opening, light is coming in, and now is the time for us to be at our best in how we speak and respond.

    That means speaking both honestly and respectfully…speaking in a way we will be heard.

    All my mail today has been from rank and file pew sitters…this is what we’ve all been working for.
    We need to do it right.

  39. A Friend says:

    Michael, if they are such good guys…why is Grenier still invited and endorsed?

  40. A Friend says:

    It’s not going to be acceptable once Grenier either drops the lawsuit at the last minute before trial to avoid being shown to be a liar…or goes to trial and is proven to be a liar.

    I will not accept CC taking action at that point, too late. In fact, I’ll let them have it times a million and will spend the rest of my life dealing with them b/c they put me and my family through over a decade of pain and suffering when they should have done something to resolve the issues privately.

  41. Michael says:

    A Friend,

    Most of the guys you mentioned have probably never heard of Bob Grenier.

    As I said, there is a whole separate group that was barely heard from this week that don’t believe anything I write or anything you say.

    That’s why it’s so important to understand that CC is not monolithic, that there is no one really in charge, and that what was being modeled this week is in danger of being buried by the old guard.

    What we are witnessing is a half century old movement in transition…those transitions take time and are usually bloody.

    This one will be no exception.

    What we saw this week are positive steps away from a past where a Grenier could flourish..and I am going to be very supportive of those steps and the people in that process.

  42. A Friend says:

    OK, well then I’ll take it to their backyard and they’ll become aware of it.

    I will resume my plan to tell the other side of the Calvary Chapel story, all the abuse, corruption even murder and molestations in every single town that waves the Calvary Chapel Association flag b/c it is a BIG LIE that they are 100% independent and not responsible for anything. I am saddened that you perpetuate that lie.

    When they disband the official Affiliation and official Pastor’s Conference and official Calvary Chapel Association that states it does “Oversight” then I’ll believe it.

    They are just trying to cover their arses from lawsuits and liability while having their cake and eating it too…similar to what Chuck did and Chuck died in a Big Lie.

  43. A Friend says:

    Thank God for SEO and that everyone google’s everything, it is the little bit of power that an Activist and Advocate has to try and effect social change and bring some justice and accountability.

  44. A Friend says:

    I will resume that project with vigor with pastors’ names as the official agents/Affiliates of the particular Calvary Chapel franchise.

  45. A Friend says:

    I’ll start with all the pastors that were featured at this year’s CCSPC and work my way down the list.

  46. Michael says:

    It’s not a lie.
    If I knew that there was one, or two, or three people in charge of the movement, then someone could be held accountable.
    There isn’t.

    There are actually two conferences now, East and West Coast…and they have very different visions of what a CC should be.

  47. A Friend says:

    Read the “Oversight” committees and pastors named at their official website.

    Listen to the recorded CCSPC where they reference the Oversight and who to contact etc.

    You are missing something.

  48. A Friend says:

    That’s OK, my beef isn’t with you. I’ll let that part drop and just do what I need to do.

  49. A Friend says:

    Good thing is I am demotivated after a medium hiatus.

    Back to it….

  50. Michael says:

    The “oversight” is limited to approving new affiliations.

    The only disciplinary action is that they can be removed from a database.

  51. A Friend says:

    Gotta finish three stories that have been in the hopper and then get cracking on that awareness campaign to the CC franchises/pastors in each locale….plus finish my CCSPC 15 review…and start my CC Abuse talk show. I’m thinking 1/2 hour vids instead of podcast. I lose interest, personally, in podcasts for some reason. I think video format is more engaging but you have to keep it shorter.

  52. A Friend says:

    They can be not-invited to the CCSPC, they can be publicly rebuked per that supposed INERRANT bible they harped about….they can be delisted from the official website etc.

  53. A Friend says:

    See? Proof CC doesn’t really believe what they sell.

    Bible is “inerrant” huh?

    What happened to 1 Timothy 5:19-21 ?

    I know I know, context, doesn’t apply, blah blah blah, doesn’t mean what it says, but Gays!

  54. Michael says:

    A Friend,

    To do the above, someone has to be capable of making that decision and enforcing it.
    There is no such person right now.

  55. A Friend says:

    Bullshit, that is total bullshit and a cop out

    You just wrote that Brian Brodersen is the new king

  56. A Friend says:

    “This was year two of the Brian Brodersen era”

    It doesn’t read: This is the year two of the leaderless no one is in charge at all CC has disbanded era.

  57. Michael says:

    Brian Brodersen is in charge of this conference because it’s on his property.
    That’s the whole point I was making.

    He is one of 20 people “governing” the movement…twenty people with wildly different goals, aspirations, and visions, and at least half of whom would love to see Brodersen working in a Home Depot.

    One of which was desperately trying to take Brodersens job.

    It’s a mess…

  58. Michael says:

    I’ll take this one step farther.
    Not only does Brodersen not have any authority over other CC’s…he doesn’t want any.

    The only people who want another king are people who you wouldn’t want near the throne if there was one.

  59. A Friend says:

    OK, that’s a nice way of saying you can do wrong and you can sin and it doesn’t matter as long as you don’t want any responsibility for it….even though you’ve actively and aggressively grabbed the reigns of power.

  60. A Friend says:

    My bullshit meter blew a fuse.

    But, I’ll leave it at that for the night. I don’t want to wear you out….and I am not saying you are wrong…I am saying Brodersen and CC is wrong for trying to pass that mantra off as righteous.

  61. A Friend says:

    God, please nuke them. Amen.

  62. A Friend says:

    God, please bring cancer and plague and hardship and lawsuit and expose more scandals and let them have it more than before since they don’t listen. Thank you. Amen.

    P.S. can you give one of them the measles or something, I hear that is really awful.

    That’s my best Chuck Smith “Touch Not God’s Anointed!” impersonation. Raul Ries does it pretty well too.

  63. Michael says:

    I’m not saying that at all.
    It’s saying that this is an association of independent operators who want to stay that way and who for the time being have a huge vacuum of power.
    There are factions and as an observer my job is to discern the factions and get behind the one that most closely models the kind of things that I believe the Bible teaches.

    This process will take years to complete…but I want to be supportive of those who are leaning in righteous directions.

  64. A Friend says:

    They might all be dead from God nuking them 🙂

  65. A Friend says:

    C’mon God! Give it to them just like Papa Chuck said you do!

  66. Michael says:

    I’m going to bed.

  67. A Friend says:

    Personally, i’m still waiting for the Chuck Curse he zapped me with to kick in.

    I’ve had a couple of colds since then….VERY unpleasant.

    Where’s Chuck?

    ….that’s right, he died of cancer a year to the day after cursing me, oh snap!

    Just coincidence though, God doesn’t really do that sort of thing, only when Chuck and Raul say he does.

  68. A Friend says:

    …I think some others on Bob G’s team got some cancer and other stuff as well, no?

  69. A Friend says:

    Those dang coincidences again. God doesn’t do that sort of thing, only when Chuck and Raul say he does.

  70. Bob says:

    First I applaud Michael for this thread!

    I am neither a defender of nor a supporter of any CC church or pastor in any form or way. I would not even enter their door if invited by my mother (BTW she has zero knowledge of the church).

    But here is Michael being a peace maker (“they shall be called sons of God”) and pointing others to the love of the brethren, Amen! Keep at it.

    Now Friend, what have you contributed over the last hour and a half of rapid fire posts to the conversation? Ok you agreed with Sol.

  71. A Friend says:

    Bob, you’re so judgmental, geez, just leave it to god and pray about it or something.

  72. Reuben says:

    All I see here is idolatry of philosophy. It might have shifted some to become more relevant to the times, but welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.

    Nothing changed in the mentality either. “That guy is that, this guy is this, but Calvary Chapel is about…”

  73. CrucifiED says:

    Thanks for the explanation Michael. Boy… I really fell for all the warnings against seminaries. It started when I first started getting involved in charismatic ministries, word of faith stuff in the beginning, and all throughout my years at CC. Now, I feel embarrassed sometimes when I think back on my few years of pastoring and teaching having not had that education.

    Now, even though I’ve never been able to go, it is my number one piece of advise when the youngsters ask me about moving into ministry.

  74. Officer Hoppy says:

    Sounds like I should start attending the SPC.

  75. JTK says:

    Hey “A Friend,”

    I cannot imagine, nor do I know of, ANY blog/website host that allows and tolerates the level of disrespect, insults and cussing that Michael allows of you.

    I also know that you have elucidated many things on here that have helped many of us.

    Could you figure out a way to be more respectful? Less antagonistic?
    I UNDERSTAND your past, your passion….
    But seriously, could you humble yourself to someone and ask them to read what you wrote before you post here?

    I’ll return to singing “Somewhere over the rainbow”….

  76. Dennis says:

    JTK, Agreed

    “A Friend” some of your stuff has been very helpful and necessary, but you are in danger of shooting yourself in the foot and undermining your own influence.

    Just some friendly advice from someone who is generally on your side. 🙂

  77. A Friend says:

    I don’t need anyone on my side…just me and Jesus!

    All I need is this!

    …and this ashtray….

    …and this paddle game…..

    ………..the ashtray, the paddle game…and that’s all I need!

    😉

  78. A Friend says:

    “I cannot imagine, nor do I know of, ANY blog/website host that allows and tolerates the level of disrespect, insults and cussing that Michael allows of you.”

    Actually Rachel Maddow’s site and other Liberal sites let me get away with MUCH more….

    Most of their folks hate me and want to kill me.

  79. Erunner says:

    I am with CrucifiED at #73. I can’t believe someone didn’t put this guy in his place. I was told at one time that teaching was the easiest thing about being a pastor and if I subbed for him I could just play one of Chuck’s tapes. I guess his idea that setting up a mobile church each Sunday and teaching now and then in Sunday School were more important duties. I believe those things are important but the diminishing of the actual teaching to the body really strikes me now that I left that situation.

  80. A Friend says:

    We are made in the image of God.

    I am like the Old Testament God, The Revelation God and the hippie “Love Your Neighbor” Jesus all rolled into one messy mess of a human being.

    The vast majority of folks suppress their feelings and live in fear of what others think about them. They are plasticky facades of an image that is controlled and molded by those that have power over them. Afraid to show emotion, afraid to be real, afraid to dissent, afraid to rock the boat, afraid to be messy, afraid of conflict, afraid of offense, afraid, afraid, afraid.

    No thanks.

  81. pstrmike says:

    Just for fun.

    If you need someone to tell you not to attend seminary, then you shouldn’t attend one.

    Seminaries are not for the faint of heart, they are forcing people to think and challenge their own assertions of what truth is. It isn’t intended to be a Sunday School class, nor is it an under-graduate Bible School.

    There is no better place for you to “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling” (I’m taking some liberty with that phrase) than in a good seminary. They help you learn how to think, to ask good questions and diligently seek good answers rather than spoon feed those answers to you.

  82. Erunner says:

    A Friend, I was the first person to state that Michael should ban you and I did it more than once. It had nothing to do with me disliking or even hating you. It just boiled down to how you represented yourself here. Nothing gave me greater pleasure than beating you at WWF and giving you several close games. Now that’s important!! 🙂

  83. A Friend says:

    E! LOL

    Love you brother.

  84. A Friend says:

    I had to give up WWF…I am like a heroin junky with the games LOL

  85. Erunner says:

    I gave it up over a year ago myself. Too many people at once got out of hand. I suspected some were cheating! 🙂

  86. Michael says:

    pstrmike,

    Amen and amen…

  87. Erunner says:

    I was always told that’s what CCBC did was to make things so tough the pretenders would drop out and those who remained would make solid pastors. Even if that was so there’s simply no reason to denigrate seminaries in any way.

  88. A Friend says:

    I basically went to seminary b/c Master’s College.

    Seminary is great for producing Dogmatists.

    Critical Thinking is poison to Dogmatics.

    Whatever you do….DO NOT teach the young men how to think…just teach them what to think…or they’ll ask questions the rest of their lives and “ministry” careers….

  89. A Friend says:

    …unfortunately for those who wanted me to be a Dogmatist…I didn’t major in bible at TMC, I majored in an area that taught Critical Thinking.

    They should ban those classes….

  90. Josh The Baptist says:

    Some seminaries are awful, to be fair.

    Some are great.

    And there is a vast difference between undegrad at a Christian College, and seminary.

  91. Josh The Baptist says:

    And from all I’ve heard, Master’s seminary is a good conservative School.

  92. Francisco Nunez says:

    The conference was great again and I was blessed to have attended. Those who put it together did a great job.

    It also great to see the wives there because for many pastors, their wives are their biggest or only accountability partner. It was also great to see these sisters encouraged because they arguably have most difficult role in the local church. The changes I’ve seen in the last couple of years are good especially the moving away from Senior only format and opening it up to wives and assistants is a solid way to the future.

    Finally it was great to connect and break bread with the older guys whether progressive or old guard. It was an opportunity for people to connect both young and old, old guard and new generation. At the end of the day…………… we need each other and I was blessed again to have learned something new from those there.

    By His Grace look forward to attending next year.

  93. Em says:

    critical thinking in itself is of no value without an education – a frame of reference – a discipline to which it may be applied IMHO

    some who are dogmatic have done their homework and have good dogmas – some haven’t … those of us who haven’t (done our homework) had better know who to trust – and not trust, i guess

    when i was a child i had a compulsion to touch the hot stove, the wet paint etc., i trusted no one … part of my growing up has been to learn to trust, to respect those who have done their homework and to know the difference between wet and dry paint, among other things 🙂

  94. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    A Friend – “Critical Thinking is poison to Dogmatics.”

    You sound pretty dogmatic about that. 😉

  95. Em says:

    critical thinking poison to dogmatics? … i disagree … a good dogma has been formed by good critical thinkers … education brings discernment and leads to good critical thinking and good dogma – IMNSHO

  96. A Friend says:

    “You sound pretty dogmatic about that.”

    Touche! 🙂

  97. Josh The Baptist says:

    MLD can be cranky, but I wouldn’t cal him a …

    Oh, sorry that says “T”ouche. tuh, tuh. Touche.

  98. A Friend says:

    ^^ Ha!

  99. A Friend says:

    Francisco is a good dude.

    There are some rare really good folks out there….even in Christianity and even in Calvary Chapel.

    Most of us are jerks and hypocrites, but some aren’t.

  100. JTK says:

    Alex:
    “Actually Rachel Maddow’s site and other Liberal sites let me get away with MUCH more….

    Most of their folks hate me and want to kill me.”

    So keep “your game” THERE!

    And play nice here.

    NOBODY there prays for you! YOU KNOW many her actually pray for you.
    Seriously, can ANYONE say ANYTHING to you to get you to change, even if it’s just a little?

  101. Josh The Baptist says:

    “Most of us are jerks and hypocrites, but some aren’t.”

    I think that’s where you get messed up. You expect too much from people. We are ALL jerks and hypocrites.

  102. JTK says:

    Alex:

    The vast majority of folks suppress their feelings and live in fear of what others think about them. They are plasticky facades of an image that is controlled and molded by those that have power over them. Afraid to show emotion, afraid to be real, afraid to dissent, afraid to rock the boat, afraid to be messy, afraid of conflict, afraid of offense, afraid, afraid, afraid.

    No thanks.”

    I am NONE of those things.

    But I’m also civil here, and respect Michael for who he is and what he does–it’s HIS house. And we are all guests.

    I take my flame wars elsewhere.

    ‘Cept for the one time to told you to SHUT UP!

    You are one of the scariest individuals I’ve ever encountered (that’s not a 2D character) on the internet. And I’m serious.

  103. A Friend says:

    JTK, I am one of the scariest individuals you will ever encounter in the flesh as well…in some limited contexts.

    I have seen very dangerous guys absolutely cave at the moment of indecision. They looked into my eyes. I saw the fear take over their spirit.

  104. A Friend says:

    Otherwise, I’m the life of the party and have some great jokes. Ask me about the one where a Rabbi, an Evangelical pastor and a Gay Midget walk into a bar….it’s a zinger! 🙂

  105. JTK says:

    A friend,

    I’d love to hear that joke.

    But you manipulating people, using a spirit of fear, in your story, your activities here remind me of a bitter and rebellious Absalom.

    Please stop.

    Please get counseling.

    When you read that, do you laugh or get angry?
    Or feel nothing?
    Or consider my wise advice?

  106. Bill Walden says:

    @13…
    Michael, I don’t despise you.
    I have never verbalized that to you or to anyone.
    I disagree with you on some things, and on a few of those things, I have disagreed strongly.

    We have gone our own ways to serve the Lord the way we believe we should.

    I appreciate the fair shake you have given Brian and others on this thread.

    Kevin, nice to meet you.

    Blessings…

  107. A Friend says:

    JTK, you take yourself too seriously and you remind me of a lot of things LOL.

    Comparing me to Absolom, yet not a word to a real abuser who hurts women and children, was a drug smuggler and drug dealer and drug addict, has hurt many many people at his CC Franchise….

    But I’m the devil b/c WORDS ONLINE NOT NICE!

    You camel-swallowing worthless hypocrite.

    Never abused kids or women, never stolen money given “to Jesus!”, never used the Gospel as a means to get rich, never disillusioned and hurt many people at my CC franchise…err, I don’t have a CC franchise…maybe that’s the ticket to get you CC guys to STFU!

    OK, I am NOW Officially Affiliated with Calvary Chapel and I am now a CC Pastor!

    Woohoo! Freeedom from the CC blog trolls!

    Now you can’t say a bad word about me online!

    I’m going to Gay Marry some gay couples at my Calvary Chapel franchise….you can’t kick me out! 🙂

  108. A Friend says:

    I will never give the vast majority of you CC guys any respect. I will always mock you, always curse you…except for very few.

    Why?

    Because you are the worst kinds of hypocrites.

    You are the hypocrites that Jesus lashed out at rather bitterly and hatefully in Matthew 23.

    You are liars. Your Movement is a Big Lie. You profess one thing with your mouths, yet you practice injustice and unequal scales and there is a trail of ignored yet hurt and broken people behind your “Movement” and you are uncaring and unconcerned. You claim the bible, yet you claim no responsibility for your fellow Pastors/Bishops/Elders.

  109. A Friend says:

    God “hates” liars.

    God “hates” unequal scales.

    Jesus hates hypocrites.

  110. victorious says:

    A Friend. Lashing out at undefined Group of people will heal no one and will not deliver righteousness into any situation.

    Jesus healed people one by one and by the Holy Spirit enables people one by one to become overcomers by His enabling grace of whatever sin has beer committed against them or whatever sin they have been overtaken by.

    He allows His servants to participate with Him in this healing work to the degree they practice the one another commands modeled by Him.

    That is the only way healing will come. You have been surrounded by a group of people who have sought to model this to you ; most especially Michael. You get up in arms and throw another round of your holy temper tantrum the moment anybody challenges you as they seek to establish appropriate boundaries of love after they have sought to build bonds of love.

    Drop your crusade and your accompanying pride of knowledge and start participating in the healing work of Jesus the Supreme Overcomer.
    Please act like a friend.
    Blessings to you

  111. Josh the Baptist says:

    You guys are barking up the wrong tree trying to influence A Friend. Actually, it would be more effective to go outside and bark at an actual tree.

  112. A Friend says:

    “You guys are barking up the wrong tree trying to influence A Friend. Actually, it would be more effective to go outside and bark at an actual tree.”

    Yup, let the little dogs bark.

    Where have I heard that before?

  113. A Friend says:

    Chuck never apologized to me for that demeaning and hurtful public comment to an abuse victim.

    But, I don’t count, I am not “special’ like Chuck. I am a perfect target for CC pastor scorn and hatred on here (minus my few friends)

    It’s all about CC, they are such victims of the evil bloggers!

  114. A Friend says:

    JTK, I couldn’t care less what you think. Your prayers and $5 can buy me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

    I have zero beef with most everyone on here except the CC pastors who act like they belong here when this blog started as a blog for CC Abuse victims and then transitioned.

    There are a few CC guys I respect. Very few. The rest can kiss my arse.

    Michael is a good friend and good man. He lets me vent once in awhile, that is appreciated.

    He’s calling me now, so I’ll take my leave and give him a break for a long while.

    The CCSPC just re-stirred the passions and I appreciate the opportunity to get some stuff off my chest.

    I will continue to do the hard work on my own and bring some much needed justice and accountability to that situation and when it is over, I don’t want to hear anything from anyone other than the very few who supported me with more than just a few prayers.

    The rest, I will say I told you so and I’ll more of a jerk than ever to CC for making us all go through that by not doing the job they told me my whole life in their cult indoctrination that the bible says they were supposed to do.

    Michael, that is my last comment for quite awhile, you don’t need to call.

  115. Captain Kevin says:

    It was a great conference! I’m so glad some friend coming on here and taking a dump on it will not ruin it.

  116. Captain Kevin says:

    By the way, there was a young lady who sang at the conference whose voice I’m just enamored with. If anyone remembers and enjoyed the late pop/jazz/blues singer Eva Cassidy, go to iTunes and check out Madison Cunningham. Had a chance to chat with her a bit, and she’s as sweet as her voice.

  117. ColoradoGuy says:

    Did Ed Taylor (Calvary Aurora, CO) participate in anyway? He seems to be a rising star in the movement.

  118. SJ says:

    @ 116 she is, I believe, 1 of 5 sisters that are daughters of Scott Cunningham. He is the director of the CC School of Worship. God given talent for sure, she has. She helps lead worship most Sundays at CCCM. Made her first/only CD from funding from gofundme.com

  119. Steve Wright says:

    Kevin, Her grandparents (Scott’s parents) go to CCLE. I’m going to share with them your kind words about Madison – they’re going through some health battles and aren’t able to get out much so I think hearing your compliment will encourage.

    Thanks for sharing it.

  120. Captain Kevin says:

    SJ, yes, she’s the one! That’s cool about the funding for her album.

    Steve, by all means, do share with them!

  121. The terminology always reminds me of the differences we have in what happens in church.
    In much of the evangelical world “worship” is limited to the songs / music and then the rest of the time something else is happening.

    In the liturgical church (and I would suggest the historical church) the whole kit and kaboodle is called The Divine Worship Service and the pastor is called the worship leader. The person who leads music in our churches goes by several names – cantor – music director – choir director.

    So, when the singing / worship is over, what exactly is the next thing on the agenda? I have a theory.

  122. Em says:

    MLD”s #121 … makes a good point – IMHO – once upon a time that would have described almost every church…

  123. SJ says:

    @MLD 121

    They get out the rattle snakes and water mocasins and go dancing !
    You know….like most serious churches .

    😉

  124. SJ – Well, I was thinking more serious – like now that the worship is done, the worship leader and the worship team have moved off the platform, let’s move on to…

  125. A Friend says:

    “Lashing out at undefined Group of people”

    Really? They are “undefined” and some nebulous unknown completely independent group? You’ve bought into the Big Lie.

    http://calvarychapelassociation.com

    Seems they are a Group, they even claim to be fellow Pastors and claim to have “oversight” and “regional pastors” in charge etc…

    Which way are they lying?

    How are they “undefined”?

    C’mon Vic, I didn’t know you to be intellectually dishonest….

  126. A Friend says:

    Kevin, take another pain pill.

  127. Scott says:

    A friend at #114, “Michael, that is my last comment for quite awhile, you don’t need to call.”

    What was that, like 2 days? LOL

  128. Scott says:

    Plus, one thing that is NOT FUNNY is your despicable remark to Kevin. Wow, man! That is is pretty low of you.

  129. wall on the fly says:

    A Friend is right…too bad you cc kool-aid drinkers are drunk on your own delusion.

  130. Bob says:

    Yes MLD has it right, worship isn’t music (while it can be) it is the whole kitten ka-boodle (what is a “kiitten ka-boodle” BTW) and it always has been historically.

    Even the Jews call prayer “worship” rather than a list to God about what their desires are.

    Sadly the whole idea the service is broken into worship (ego stroking music in many churches) and a talk reflects the tend to compartmentalize everything in life. It shows how on one hand we can praise God with our lips and in the next minute be cursing our brother.

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