Clayton Jennings and Our Endangered Youth

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60 Responses

  1. Babylon's Dread says:

    Yes, that is what I was seeking. He has made himself the victim and that is unconscionable. Also, I did not listen to more than 20 minutes of his ranting so you are saying that he actually incited his followers to harass these people? I have seen the political left accuse people on the right of doing that and I did not think it was so rather it was just the consequence of online conflicts. So, you are saying that he actually invited his followers to go after people?

    This new world of public conflict is like old church business meetings where you saw all kinds of unnecessary vitriol because people were in public and got red faced and out of control. The end result was people picking sides and expanding the conflicts.

    More and more I see the micro-world of church life being repeated in the public square to worse effect.

  2. Michael says:

    BD,

    I don’t recall if he explicitly encouraged harassment,but that has now become the expected and standard response to grievances online and I’m sure that’s what Jennings expected and why he identified his victims.
    This is now a tool on both sides of the political spectrum as well as in the church to deal with those who break whatever code another group is following.
    I would also submit for greater concern that this is the most confusing and damaging time in history to be a young person…

  3. Babylon's Dread says:

    He was clear that he can do this because he is BIG enough to stand up to those who offend him.

  4. Michael says:

    Yes.
    This is clearly someone who has been able to label his perversion as “authenticity” and his popularity as a sign of God’s favor…

  5. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I don’t know – I don’t see a YouTube personality and a blogger going at it as any kind of church event / activity or church news.
    It’s Kardashian stuff at best.

  6. Michael says:

    MLD,

    That will serve you well until one of your grandkids falls under the spell of one of these wolves from social media..

  7. He said his problems with the women are because he is good looking.

    Seriously…:) 🙂 🙂

  8. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Trust me, I know practically nothing of this guy except his video I watched yesterday. So is the claim he was an orthodox teacher before the lead up to this meltdown? I saw a few clips of his Facebook stuff and his theology is no different than the guy who used to pedal Shamwows on the old Infomercials.
    I wouldn’t want my kids to run into Francis Chan on the internet either.

  9. MLD has nothing to worry about – he practices closed communion. 🙂

    But no, this guy has always been a mess, he just turned it up to 11 recently.

    JD Hall is and has always been a mess as well.

    It’s the perfect couple.

  10. Michael says:

    The problem is that he has a very large base…that didn’t seem to shrink after the latest mess.
    We underestimate the power of social media…

  11. I do think a large number are still following to watch the car crash.

  12. Jean says:

    “I wouldn’t want my kids to run into Francis Chan on the internet either.”

    MLD, are you lacking that crazy love?

  13. Bridrofchrist says:

    “Serial sexual predator” , and yet Christians are backing and supporting him ? This sounds very much like President Trump and the evangelicals who still support him. Where is the discernment?

  14. Em says:

    Brideofchrist, has Trump made any claim to spiritual authority? To spiritual leadership? Or has he honored our Faith as the backbone and light of the nation? I would say the latter is closest…😏

  15. Michael says:

    He hasn’t honored our faith…he’s used it like a ten dollar whore.

  16. Jean says:

    “the backbone and light of the nation?”

    The people gave him their integrity and he threw it into the fire. Then out came their Cyrus.

  17. Michael says:

    My comment was inappropriate and probably offensive.
    My apologies to those offended.
    I simply loath the man and need to pray it out…

  18. Em says:

    Michael, everything gets “used” on the political stage…. no worries

  19. Outside T. Fold says:

    Michael @ 6:36 pm, might I suggest using an analogy that is not misogynistic?

    And why is it that the vehement critique of a man is expressed in such a way as to be degrading of women? Why are ALL THE ANALOGIES degrading of women? Are there any analogies that are vivid and yet stay focused on maleness, or do those analogies fail and the ones that are just vehement enough are limited to degrading women?

    (This topic reminds me of a conversation with a classmate during, I think, an Old Testament class. Classmate was on a high dudgeon, ranted at length about impurity in the church/Bride of Christ. Vivid language that took the female analogy of church and wantonness to an extreme. I was appalled; I felt as though classmate’s words slapped me across the face. I later came to recognize that as a kind of misogyny and exacting standard of female behavior where there are little to no possible standards by which women can be acceptable. See, for example, madonna/whore.)

    So yeah. You have an issue with a man. Who has done abusive things. Menacing things. Abusive-of-women acts. Abuses his power. And the language that you reached for, to describe your sense of this man, is language that further degrades and harms women.

    I just can’t even. We all lack imagination. If you are praying about it, pray for better language. Pray for some poetry that is not violent.

  20. “Then out came their Cyrus.”

    Miley?

  21. Dan from Georgia says:

    I’ve never heard of this guy and I don’t intend on looking him up on YouTube or whatever…I think I’ve heard enough to avoid him. I do feel for the youth and others who are poisoned by his negativity.

  22. Michael says:

    OTF,

    I receive and appreciate your rebuke.

  23. Michael says:

    Dan,

    Jennings is addressing issues that kids care about in a way they can understand…they can’t discern that he’s setting them up for abuse.
    In the meantime, we argue about the nature of the Real Presence in the Eucharist…

  24. Xenia says:

    we argue about the nature of the Real Presence in the Eucharist…<<<

    And why not? It is a topic of extreme importance.

  25. Michael says:

    On the list of issues that my 16 year old godson is trying to process the nature of the Real Presence is of no importance and less interest.
    That is a concern for mature believers…which he is not.

  26. Outside T. Fold says:

    Michael, 👊🏻

    I recently watched a TED talk by Jimmy Carter: Why I believe the mistreatment of women is the number one human rights abuse and was struck by the contrast between the United States and Sweden on how to address the matter of sexual trafficking/sexual slavery. (President Carter gets to this at about the 8 and a half minute mark.) My raising this here might seem off topic. After all, what does President Carter have to do with Clayton Jennings? However, examining the default stance (When it comes to law enforcement, blame the woman!) illuminates something at the assumption level of our culture. We assume it to be so without thinking much about it. On this International Women’s Day / during Women’s History Month, I am spending some time dwelling in the gap, mentally percolating on the contrast between how Sweden addresses a problem and the United States does, in order to see what that tells me about whether Woman is a human being or just a vessel.

  27. Xenia says:

    That is a concern for mature believers…<<<

    I could not disagree more.

  28. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, you know of people who argue the real presence with 16 yr old’s?
    I always remember my kids thought process – being horney, pimples and at what age I was going to let them drive.

    I don’t know that they were trying to process much else. 🙂

  29. Michael says:

    Here’s my point.
    T is trying to process basic christian issues in a culture that utterly rejects them while also processing all the identity issues kids go through.

    I think we’re doing a poor job of addressing the basics with these kids …

  30. Xenia says:

    OK, I get that, but whether or not one actually receives the very Body and Blood of Christ or not *is* a basic Christian issue and a sacramental understanding of the Eucharist is very helpful in sorting out what Church is and what Christ does for us.

  31. Xenia says:

    I think we’re doing a poor job <<<

    As I always ask when this kind of thing comes up, who is "we" and what should this "we" be doing to fix the problem? Every church I know knocks itself out to reach and retain young people. They all have different ideas as to how to accomplish this and I think many of their methods are worldly, but as far as I can tell, everyone's aware of the problem and is trying to do something about it.

    I think the family is the first line of defense and even that is not fool-proof. People, including young people, are either going to believe the Gospel is good news and embrace it or they're not. The Gospel message doesn't change although it has been packaged in some crazy ways over the centuries. But it's still: You are a sinner, you are lost unless you choose to follow Christ Who has died for your salvation. People just don't see this as good news anymore, they see it as an annoying interference.

    Sure, there's distractions like the evangelical enthusiasm for Trump but that's not going to count for anything at the Pearly Gates when you try to tell St. Peter you rejected Christ because your Christian neighbor supported Trump.

    Nope, people reject Christ because they wanna do what they wanna do. They prefer darkness over light.

  32. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia is right. I have said here many times, to no applause – the reason people young and old reject Christ is because they hate Christ and are his enemy. No there reason.
    If anyone rejects Christ because of anything I say and do, that renders Christ impotent.

  33. “But it’s still: You are a sinner, you are lost unless you choose to follow Christ Who has died for your salvation. ”

    I always love when Xenia’s evangelical side comes out.

  34. Michael says:

    Good Lord…
    I’m not talking about utterly rejecting Christ and I’m sure not talking about hating Christ.
    I’m talking about reaching kids who’s friends and teachers all subscribe to LGBTQ doctrines without question, who hear through music and media moral standards that are not ours and yes, wonder why we support a President who hates some of the people God loves.
    We discuss these things while driving past the pot stores on every other corner.
    These are very confusing times for me, let alone kids..

  35. Michael says:

    Were I T’s age…I’d have a hard time reconciling all the cognitive dissonance to come to faith.
    I’ve had that problem anyway…but had I grown up in these times it might have been fatal to my faith…

  36. Jean says:

    I can’t imagine a more concrete, true and helpful way to help young people with identity issues than to teach and proclaim unreservedly God’s incarnation, his self giving sacrifice for sin, and his continuing real presence in Holy Communion.

  37. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, where is the holy spirit in all this? Is the cognitive dissonance any different than what the alienated youth pre Jesus Movement was going through. Every generation goes through the same.
    I remember my mom telling me that her grandfather would complain to her dad, “the world is going to hell in a hand basket. Her dad would complain to her “the world is going to hell in a handbasket.” She in turn would make the same complaint to me, and I in turn to my kids.
    Heard my daughter tell her 16 yr old daughter, “the world is going to hell in a handbasket.” I laughed pretty hard at that one.

  38. Em says:

    What kids see and hear… Joe Christian is up to his ears in doctrines, but he lies if it saves his or his kid’s bacon or turns a profit that buys a new car – family first… Josephine Christian talks so sweet to all the kids and feeds them chocolate chip cookies after school, but she’s on the phone gossiping and trash talking about the lady down the street while she does so – but she’s taught her children to say please and thank you and sorry, have good manners and wear clean underwear
    Children respect some wrong things, but hypocrisy isn’t one of them especially religious hypocrisy…

  39. Michael says:

    The cognitive dissonance today is greater than at any time since the birth of the nation.
    There used to be a veneer of Christian ethics that existed in the culture that is rapidly disappearing.
    Christian concepts of sin and salvation are almost foreign to many people today.

    The Holy Spirit is still at work…but He doesn’t have a time limit on His work.

  40. “There used to be a veneer of Christian ethics that existed in the culture that is rapidly disappearing.”

    I see that as a plus.

  41. Em says:

    I should have added that, if they admire Jennings, it may be no one is teaching them what the Christian Faith is based on…

    IMO it isn’t based on communion practices any more than a wheel can turn with just one spoke

  42. Dan from Georgia says:

    Michael,

    My wife and I are sans children for reasons going unmentioned here, but I do admire parents like yourself and the task at hand of raising your younger ones. Today’s world is MUCH different from the one I grew up in (70s and 80s)!

  43. Em says:

    That veneer was based on common sense and the nagging feeling that the Christian God just might maybe turn out to be real, so i’m not sure its disappearance is a good thing. 🙆

  44. I remember the veneer. I always knew it was phony.

  45. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think Christian ethics are still a large part of American culture as long as we are defining “christian ethics” properly. In the Lutheran world they are the back half of the 10 commandments.

    You will honor your father and your mother, you will not kill, you will not commit adultery, you will not bear false witness, and you will not covet.

    I don’t see any culture group lobbying against those.

  46. Phony Christianity is worse than no Christianity.

    The veneer of Christianity probably helped in controlling behaviors but probably sent a lot of well-behaved people to Hell.

  47. You gotta be kidding, MLD. Our culture craps on those ideas every day.

  48. Michael says:

    Dan,

    It’s tougher than I ever thought it would be…and I’ve been involved with kids for 45 years.
    The standard answers just don’t work anymore…and I’m grateful for that.

  49. Xenia says:

    You will honor your father and your mother, you will not kill, you will not commit adultery, you will not bear false witness, and you will not covet.<<<

    Maybe these categories of sins don't have lobbies(other than Hollywood) but:

    1. People disrespectfully "out" their parents all the time. How many people blame all their personal troubles on their *terrible* parents. (This is one I am especially prone to.) How many people domicile their elderly parents in institutions rather than care for them? Euthanasia, anyone?

    2.You will not kill…. does that include unborn babies? Because they are being slaughtered in their thousands. And abortionists DO have lobbies.

    3.Adultery? It's the main plot device for almost every movie and TV program.

    4. Not bear false witness? Trump is a pathological liar and is adored by his thousands of fans. His circle of advisers, likewise.

    5. Coveting? It's everywhere. Maybe no worse than before but certainly quite common.

    ALL these sins are glorified by the TV, movie and music industry. If you support those industries, you are only encouraging them to produce more. But we must be entertained, no matter what the result.

  50. Xenia says:

    We’ve got five kids and they are not all Christians at the moment. The best advice I can give- and it’s not 100% effective, obviously, is to:

    1. Talk with your kids at an age-appropriate level about things like drugs, homosexuality, etc. Don’t get hysterical, don’t go all “Christian Talk Show Crazy” on them, just explain that as Christians, this is what is acceptable behavior. Listen to their answers to a point, but don’t give them the impression that you think certain sins are negotiable.

    2. Fear God more than you fear your children.

    3. Maintain some kind of family devotional practice, but don’t make it too arduous.

    4. Make your actions speak louder than your words.

    5. Teach your children to love their neighbors by your own example.

    6. Don’t ever, EVER let your kids hear you saying derogatory things about any ethnic group, ever.

    7. No matter what, let your kids know they are always welcome to come home.

    8. No Sunday morning sports or jobs, period. On Sunday we go to Church. Letting your kids “off the hook” for Sunday morning church tells them that it’s not important, that a soccer game is more important, that pretty much anything is more important than God. This sets a pattern for life, as we have sadly discovered over here.

    9. And most important of all, pray for them without ceasing.

  51. Xenia says:

    LOL, I see my penchant for making a numbered list is still with me. When I was at CC, I had a bunch of jobs and often I needed the pastor’s input or permission. He was a busy man and if I wrote a prosy email he wouldn’t read it and I wouldn’t get my answer. He * would* read a numbered list, because he could write “yes,” “no,” or “maybe” after each item. This is how I fell into this habit. 🙂

  52. Michael says:

    “5. Teach your children to love their neighbors by your own example.”

    With T, it all starts and ends here…when I fail at this, it hits the fan.
    I’m grateful for that, as well…

  53. Em says:

    Numbered lists is -IMHO – a good habit. 👍 sign of an organized mind, also
    However, regarding item #1 – my mother went to the home (i was an only child) because she had a vicious, revengeful side to her nature, was the master of the half truth and a very believable pathological liar who took no prisoners – if you like Pelosi, you’d have loved her… Other than that, she was an intelligent, accomplished enjoyable woman and i do believe she is in the presence of the Lord today, a repentant soul

  54. Jean says:

    “my mother went to the home (i was an only child) because she had a vicious, revengeful side to her nature, was the master of the half truth and a very believable pathological liar who took no prisoners – if you like Pelosi, you’d have loved her”

    This thread proves Josh’s point at 12:01 pm very well.

  55. bob1 says:

    Talk with your kids at an age-appropriate level about things like drugs, homosexuality, etc. Don’t get hysterical, don’t go all “Christian Talk Show Crazy” on them

    I love this comment.

    When we were raising our kids, I deliberately kept them away from Xn radio talk shows. They had this very weird bipolarity thing going on, where they thought everyone out there was on drugs.
    Especially but not only church kids.

  56. Em says:

    Jean @ 4:52
    Ahh but Jean i’m not blaming my short comings on her… i was raised by my grandparents… LOL
    My point was that there can be sound reasons for putting parents “in the home.” She had a nice 2 bdr. , 2 bath with kitchen, balcony and a view of the mountains … We visited her everyday for six years…

  57. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – “You gotta be kidding, MLD. Our culture craps on those ideas every day.”
    There has never been a time in our history that culture did not kick against righteousness. look at the wild wild west and the roaring twenties.

    But give this a test – take those commandments, reword them a bit so they are not so obvious from the Bible and go knock on a 100 of your neighbors doors. Ask them if these are virtues they respect, to put agree or disagree next to each. I think you would be surprised that the vast majority would mark each as a virtue.
    This would show that there is a strong Christian ethic in this country – folks just have a hard time living them out consistently — I know I hold to all of them and I have great difficulty living them consistently.

  58. filbertz says:

    still waiting for seasoned Christians and ministries to take seriously the challenges to faith that are surrounding our teens…we are out-thought, out-spent, out-gunned, out-numbered, and the best can do is be out-raged (which has an extremely limited shelf-life). Little interest, no traction.

  59. Em says:

    Turn the clock back half a century and there was Young Life with their home meetings and summer camps – Jim Rayburn began the program in Texas, i believe… Schools actually allowed workers to come in to the high schools and recruit student leaders on the theory the rest would thus become interested, too. The home meetings were led by students with a Young Life worker as speaker – presenting Christ. If you professed faith in Christ at one of the home meetings, you were encouraged to get involved with a local church and attend regional Campaigners meetings on Sunday afternoons which used Navigators material as i recall.
    Young Life is still around, but i have a hunch today’s teens need something different to get their interests … have no idea what ? ? ?

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