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37 Responses

  1. Nonnie says:

    The truth teller article is very interesting. I especially liked the comments about the midwives and Rahab. Years ago I was in a small group Bible study and the leader asked what we thought of people like Corrie Ten Boom and her family hiding Jews and lying about them being there. I said I thought that it was fine and they were trying to help people and save them from being murdered. He threw a bunch of “law” at me about lying and how God was a God of truth and the Devil was the Father of lies, etc, etc. He made me feel so small, like what I was proposing was anti God. I left that study feeling condemned, but years later, I am still cheering Corrie Ten Boom and others like her.

  2. Jim says:

    So, in a nutshell, what does ISIS really want? Has anyone bothered to read the text of their “message to America”?

    Our invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq is EXACTLY what OBL wanted. Our continued intervention in the middle east is a birthday gift to isis, and an invasion would be christmas.

    Our message to the middle east should be, “we have meddled in your affairs for far too long, and will now remove our people, our influence, and our money. We wish you the best.”

    War is a racket. Oppose it.

  3. Jim says:

    MLD-yep. Born in ’58. We could use some ’60’s spirit right now.

  4. Babylon's Dread says:

    Sometimes Carl Trueman could adjust his underwear instead of write… it just sounds so high-minded and smug. Just stop… just stop…

  5. Babylon's Dread says:

    Pastor’s who think faith will become an online experience have only themselves to blame for having spectator religion. We have turned them into listeners and observers they. Their presence doesn’t matter because His doesn’t either.

  6. Babylon's Dread says:

    Let me finally point out…

    That in the previous two posts I followed one man’s smugness with my own.

    My hypocrisy has no bounds.

    Dreadly

  7. I found the concept of ‘online’ faith as idiocy – as if people experience their faith only at church. Doesn’t their faith experience travel with them?

    Pastors who think like that are egotistical idiots. You can experience your faith only if you are looking at me.

  8. Josh The Baptist says:

    “But just as celebrating July the Fourth makes sense for Americans but not for the English, the Chinese or the Lapps, so Ash Wednesday and Lent really make no sense to those who are Presbyterians, Baptists, or free church evangelicals.”

    I liked that quote from the Truman article.

  9. People are free to have a shallow faith this time of year 😉

  10. Josh The Baptist says:

    Evangelicals observing Lent reminds me of white guys making rap music.

  11. Josh The Baptist says:

    Exactly. That’s evangelicals observing Lent. Ice Ice Baby.

  12. Lent = don’t touch this!
    Need MC Hammer to rap “Too Catholic.”

  13. London says:

    Scary that I’m now agreeing with MLD on two threads in one day 😯

  14. Josh The Baptist says:

    White guys from suburban communities hear rap, see the videos, and think, “That’s cool. I’ve gotta do that.” So they rap to different degrees of success, but there is always *something* missing. What is missing is a connection to the historical culture that gave birth to the artform. What’s missing is the echo of Harriet Tubman and Rosa Parks and MLK and Frederick Douglas and Richard Pryor and Rudy Ray Moore. What’s missing is the struggle. It may be rap, but it can never be authentic.

  15. Anne says:

    “we have meddled in your affairs for far too long, and will now remove our people, our influence, and our money. We wish you the best.”
    Jim, I appreciate your comments & links.
    The outrage and stomach turning I experience over the barbarism of ISIS feels nothing less than what I felt about the Japanese civilians incinerated by our atomic bombs, the napalm used since Viet Nam, the atrocities of the Nazis, the use of drones and many other examples of man’s inhumanity to man.

    Our ‘allies’ in Saudi Arabia behead folks as a regular practice in their judicial system.

    War is barbaric no matter whose team you are on.

    I appreciated Corey’s “5 Reasons…” very much.

    I confess I don’t get how two kingdoms theology negates loving your enemies and a host of other convenient compromises designed to protect our lives, our possessions, our personal & national priorities.

    I may have said this before. One of my heroes is Thich Nhat Hanh who’s commitment to compassion made him suspect to all sides during all the warring in Viet Nam. He refused to pick a side and time after time his area would be bombed/attacked by each opposing faction. Each time they would give aid to the wounded & dying, civilians and combatants alike. Each time they would rebuild out of the rubble. That to me is truly loving your enemies and laying down your life for your neighbor.

  16. Babylon's Dread says:

    So fasting and prayer is absurd for evangelicals.

    It is pretty easy to practice Lenten practices without smells and bells … or ashes for that matter.

    Since when is focusing upon spiritual disciplines against Evangelical values…

  17. Josh The Baptist says:

    I assume you are talking to me? It’s hard to know, because that clearly isn’t what I said.

  18. London says:

    Carl Trueman sounds like a condescending prat in that article.

  19. Besides the obvious RCC does Lent so i won’t, I think the big objection to Lent is ‘why do something to observe a season – you should do that at all times.’

    It is the same reasoning that rejects following a church calendar and r observing any feast day (this past Sunday was the feast of the transfiguration) – or even further, to observe a day for an honored person of the churches past. – This past weekend was the observance of St Valentine … the real martyr – not the flying baby in the diaper.

    In evangelicalism nothing is as holy , and therefore would only be an interruption to the verse by verse teaching. How Christmas and Easter make the cut, I will never know.

  20. Josh The Baptist says:

    The flying baby is Cupid. Does he get a day, too? 🙂

  21. victorious says:

    Thanks for the links. The primacy of pastor-ing article is a beneficial read and blessing to affirm our bonds and call to care for each other in the family of faith. I see this as one of positive goals of Michael’s online efforts and labor of love.

  22. London says:

    Josh, what is it about Lent and the church calendar that you find so mock-worthy?
    Honest question.
    Is it just because its foreign to your experience or are those things themselves worthy of ridicule.
    I honestly want to try to understand

  23. victorious says:

    Michael Patton’s article on defining and distinguishing the various degrees of essentials and non essentials is a keeper and one of the best in my opinion to promote a robust and informed unity that spans the spectrum of those in the body of Christ.

  24. josh the baptist says:

    Hmmm. Must nott have done well, there. London, i was not trying to mock Lent or the church calendar. I was trying to be creative in explaining why I do not connect with it. I have no historical connection to the practice at all. For me to do it would not be authentic. I think it is wonderful for those who find meaning in it.

  25. The Dude says:

    Trueman on lent
    Though he was a little harsh….I grew up in a Episcopal church with all the wrote religion. Don’t see the need to follow the RCC..
    Protestant thing to follow Jesus. If somebody wants to follow the church calendar so be it.

  26. The Dude says:

    Jim
    Your comment about war is a racket was right on.Retired from the military …saw stuff that still makes me cringe when think back about it.

  27. Anne says:

    Dude -My dad served in the military from the Korean War thru the gulf conflicts – then in civilian service in what is now a subsidiary of haliburton . I had the honor of being his caretaker as he fought his last battle w/pancreatic cancer. His insights that he shared in hindsight cemented my non-violence, anti war sentiments.

  28. london says:

    Josh, thanks for the answer. I did take it as mocking, but I see now that you meant it differently. I was having a hard time understanding the attitude I was reading into your posts, cause it didn’t sound like you normally do.

    For me, I think maybe part of the appeal of participating in Lent this year, is the fact that it’s not part of my church culture background. I like to participate in things I haven’t done before, especially if it helps me understand or experience another group’s culture (within reason of course)
    Reminds me of when I’d travel with my co-workers to another country. We had this one gal in our group that ALWAYS ordered ham and cheese sandwich for lunch/dinner no matter where we went in Europe. Every single time, that’s what she’d order, because she knew she liked it, and she knew what it was….She didn’t have any issue with going places, and seeing new things, just in experiencing new and different foods.

    That’s kind of how it feels to me when people say they don’t do something cause it’s not part of their tradition. So what if you end up with an experience that isn’t to your liking…worse thing is you went without something you normally partake in, and you spent a few more days having a little more structured prayer/fasting/reading time than you normally.

  29. london says:

    “Protestant thing to follow Jesus. If somebody wants to follow the church calendar so be it”

    I’m assuming this means that if a Christian, wants to follow Jesus in a way that incorporates tradition and structure, then cool for them. It’s just as valid as those who follow Jesus by using a devotional during their “quiet time” or read through a reading plan, or use a One Year Bible for example.

    All legitimate and fine ways to use your time and find some sort of structure for your spiritual practice.

  30. london says:

    A few years ago, I read some of what Sara Miles said on her FB page about taking Ash Weds. to the streets. I had never really understood the purpose of Ash Weds. before because I grew up Bapt. and then moved to non-denominational churches that didn’t practice it.

    Her stories of encounters with strangers who wanted to participate in the tradition and how deeply moved they were someone would come out to the streets to them, to remind them of their mortality, really touched me. I feel like I’ve missed out on something important somehow. As I get older, the realities of age are making me deal with life/death in a way I haven’t before. I think that the ritual of being reminded, that just like every other created thing, I do shall be dust one day, is somewhat freeing. I think the priests (in the “of all believers” version) that perform that service, are in some real sense blessing people. I want to be part of that blessing, so I guess that’s why I am participating in Lent this year.

    Here’s Sara’s Huffington Post article for this year. I admire her and what she does in San Francisco.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sara-miles-/why-ash-wednesday_b_4899437.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

  31. brian says:

    “War is a racket. ” Truer words. the second aspect “Oppose it.” now that is harder because now you are treading on a god ordained sacrament, something far more holy than the blood of Jesus or the grace of God. FAR MORE IMPORTANT. Money, it is the holy of holies, it is the one true god, one should fear treading on this ground because this god will, no matter what, ever show any mercy if you get in the way of the revenue stream. Hell will be too good for those that do that. Of course I believe in the Lord Jesus, King of Kings and Lord of Lord’s and He is the prince of Peace will overcome. Goes to show what a randseed sin infested heathen I am.

  32. The Dude says:

    London
    I refuse to cast a judgment on those who follow the Church calendar. It’s a non essential for me. Bless you in your endevers.

  33. Josh The Baptist says:

    London, thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt, there. I should know to speak carefully about things that others hold dearly.

    At this point in my life, I don’t see myself ever doing Lent. I will say though, as I’ve gotten older I’ve recognized the value in many traditions I would never have given a shot ten years ago, so who knows? Maybe I’ll mature more and see the need some day.

  34. Eric says:

    The ISIS article was very interesting. 14 years ago we were dealing with the decentralised mobile nature of al Qaeda and now we’re back to an enemy with a hierarchy and a territory.

  35. London says:

    Josh,
    Ten years goes by quicker than you know 🙂

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