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12 Responses

  1. Corby says:

    What I find interesting about the “Genesis” article is that Jews like Jesus and Paul saw it the way “we” see it today, because the way “we” see it is informed by the way Jesus and Paul saw it. It isn’t something relatively modern Christians made up. It goes back at least 2,000 years in Judaism. Changing it from history to story is the modern invention, just like changing the history of who Jesus was and what He did is being changed from history to story. The first time I heard the opening to The Lord of the Rings when she says, “History became legend. Legend became myth” I immediately thought, “That’s what has happened to scripture.

  2. Michael says:

    I think it is holy story…a narrative meant to convey truth.
    History?
    Not so much.
    Doesn’t change the “trueness” of the truths…

  3. Corby says:

    And regarding the first link about looking for a pastor to repeat other sermons, if anyone feels “fed” after listening to Craig Groeschel, Andy Stanley, and Steven Furtick on an kind of regular basis, that alone is just sad. A college kid feels fed after a cup-o-noodles, but gains no real nutrition from it.

    The article reminded me of when I was looking for my first pastor position online, I came across one church that posted, “If you don’t own all of the Cohen Brothers movies on DVD, don’t even bother applying.” The point being they wanted someone who was culturally relevant and edgy. There were a number of posts like that about music collections, TV shows, and little about character, integrity, theology, and health.

  4. Michael says:

    I know of a number of churches that use prewritten material from Rick Warren and others.
    I wondered what those pastors actually do for a living…

  5. Corby says:

    While it’s true that anyone can find a credentialed expert to agree with their point of view on anything, I do find it interested that there is/was at least one professor at Hebrew University who taught that Genesis 1-11 was written in such a way as to be historical writing, to communicate fact, not allegory. One of his points was that the observed poetic rhythms aren’t because someone was trying to write in a poetic form we see reflected later in scripture, but that this writing was the inspiration for the poetic forms and rhythms that come later, which I found to be an interesting possibility.

  6. Michael says:

    Yes, I can find credentialed academics that agree with me…starting with J.I. Packer.
    There are many others, but this is one of those areas were many folks aren’t open to persuasion…

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As a former Jew I do not trust anything a Jew has to say about the Hebrew Bible. I am surprised Peter Enns fell for his buddy’s explanation.
    1.) It takes the NT to understand the OT.
    2.) The Jews got their whole story wrong.

    A Jew can tell you how they understand the “story” because that is all it is to them – not what it means.

    Jews are the worst people to go to for biblical understanding.

  8. bob1 says:

    This is a fascinating book about Genesis 1. The author taught for 20 years at Moody, so he’s not any type of theological liberal…

    https://www.amazon.com/Lost-World-Genesis-One-Cosmology/dp/0830837043/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1533675124&sr=8-3&keywords=genesis+1

  9. Eric says:

    I’m fine with a church using sermons & other material developed elsewhere (acknowledging where it came from), so church staff can more spend time on pastoral care, admin, evangelism or whatever else. But looking further at that case it just got weirder. The Rocky Mountain Church is really an enigma. Website is a year out of date.

    But even more surprising is the writing of Fr Palka in Tampa, alleging widespread immorality across the clergy of his denomination. I haven’t heard of anyone painting that stark a picture.

  10. Jtk says:

    9). On Bethel, in Redding
    -it is tough to see a bunch of accusations against a church, especially in light of this tragedy. It is especially pernicious that the accusations are later shown to be untrue, citing the Red Cross.

    What if we become like the believers I just heard about in Turkey, from a direct source: in a city of 100,000, there were only 7 Christians. I asked, “How well do they get along?”
    The answer: “Really well, 1 of them just has a lot of growing up to do.”

    Maybe persecution will draw us fat and sassy American Christians together.

    -I’m glad Bethel is speaking “positivity” into this situation. What if their prayers and prophecies make it better, even if it is EVENTUALLY?

    -I can’t think of a modern Agabus.
    Or at least of one that doesn’t have an obvious end time scenario he is promoting.

    -I wanna hear Dread’s “take”

  11. Captain Kevin says:

    So, what the church in the first link is looking for is a good actor.

  12. Babylon's Dread says:

    It’s no secret that the people of Bethel Church are my beloved and dear friends. One family fleeing the area for health concerns was passing near us on a journey to their home in Tx and we hoped to see them because they are so dear to us. We watched the updates with tears, prayers and some anxious thoughts to know what damage the fire had done and who was endangered or worse. Every notice posted on Facebook brought more tears and prayers.

    The danger to the city is passed now and of course the wags and critics have their punditry with our friends. No doubt careless talk from within the church family provided fodder for their enemies.

    My thoughts about this rose on Sunday as I preached about Jesus hearing of the death of John Baptist, feeding the multitude, healing the sick and walking on the water. In those moments of sorrow and compassion and showing mercy I could hear the critics just in the background asking what sign he might show them…

    Nothing changes much.

    The people of Bethel receive more than their share of hate messages because they dare to believe in the God of wonders. So be it. The scorners scorn and the hungry are fed.

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