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19 Responses

  1. Erunner says:

    I’ve read and heard a lot about Bethel that seems troubling. Despite that I listen to their music a lot. It’s gratifying to see they are going to be giving out this money to those who lost their homes in the horrible fires. I hope it makes a difference to those who receive it.

  2. Jtk says:

    God’s battle for your bank account is great.

  3. Em says:

    As i know that John MacArthur is not well thought of here, it would be interesting to see what is found objectionable in the linked article….
    I found it sound, lining up quite well with some of the “Things I Think” in yesterday’s list…. 🙆

  4. Jean says:

    Regarding the MacArthur (his) article, on the one hand, until we get more specifics from him on exactly who and what he is criticizing, I can’t respond directly. On the other hand, I just happen to be reading Amos this morning and caught this:

    “Hear this, you who trample on the needy
    and bring the poor of the land to an end,
    saying, “When will the new moon be over,
    that we may sell grain?
    And the Sabbath,
    that we may offer wheat for sale,
    that we may make the ephah small and the shekel great
    and deal deceitfully with false balances,
    that we may buy the poor for silver
    and the needy for a pair of sandals
    and sell the chaff of the wheat?”

    It seems quite clear that (1) God abhors social and economic injustice and (2) that it is within the vocation of the preacher to not only speak on that topic but to condemn its presence.

    Is it not good news that God and his remnant people are on the side of the needy and oppressed, and against the unjust and oppressor?

  5. Michael says:

    John MacArthur, along with his right hand man Phil Johnson, James White, and other politically conservative evangelicals, are using their considerable influence to utterly distort the message of the Bible and it’s application to society and culture.

    As Jean correctly pointed out, the book of Amos (and the entire narrative of Scripture) speaks not only to God’s people addressing spiritual need, but economic need and social injustice.

    This campaign by MacArthur and company is not only unbiblical, it’s anti-Christ.

  6. Em says:

    Just in from making sure all 8 sprinklers are ready if the predicted wind starts bring burning stuff our way… distracted and out of breath, but….
    MacArthur seemed to be making the point that we Believers do have an obligation as Jean’s verses indicate – i just finished the book of Nehemiah andi find the Old Testament much more an instruction applicable for the Church – but…
    Our obligation down thru time is not to reform evil, but to do God’s will in the midst of a dark and evil world system
    As to the whole spectrum of MacArthur’s endeavors i can’t opine as i don’t follow him, but the opening article linked made sense to me…. The linked response ?
    But these rebuttals are interesting to me…

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, to the point you make about MacArthur and gang and calling their teaching unbiblical and anti christ, does that make their teaching heretical and does that make them heretics?

    Thus was my point on the other thread – when I see folks with teaching that is unbiblical and anti Christ, I have no problem calling them out as heretics. But when I do, you seem to make it more like awkward teaching – I think you call it aberrant teaching.

    So how would you classify unbiblical, anti Christ teaching?

  8. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I’m not going to call any of those men heretics.
    I have called them some other things over the last 24 hours, but this is a family blog.
    They all confess the creeds, they all preach the Gospel…and they’re all teaching serious error.
    God uses them anyway.
    MacArthur and White were important people in my own faith journey…which makes this all the more disappointing.
    I will point out their error, I will fight for what I believe to be biblical truth…but I’ll leave the labels alone.
    I believe their teaching is grossly aberrant on this matter, but I do not believe they are heretics.

  9. bob1 says:

    I’m with Michael. I’m not aware of any foundational doctrines that these individuals espouse. Error is not the same as heresy.

    I do find it ironic, though, that folks like MacArthur who loudly profess their
    fidelity to the Bible, haver these incredibly huge blind spots.

  10. Michael says:

    By the way…the link “when you forget they are dead”…is really good…

  11. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    bob1 – I made the claim yesterday that the word faith people confess Christ and the trinity, but deny that confession on the back end with there other teachings. I have no problem designating their teaching heretical and the themselves as heretical teachers.

    Now Michael labeled the teachings of the MacArthur party as anti Christ – that doesn’t warrant a similar designation as heretical teaching? Anti Christ teaching is just labeled as error? Hmmm

  12. Michael says:

    MLD,

    You have a scorched earth policy on doctrine that I simply can’t affirm.

    We’re all in some error…we just don’t know where.

    I can’t deny that God has used these men…and i can’t deny how wrong they are on this point.

  13. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, I will leave it at this – you say you stay away from the label’s. However, on a teaching you feel strongly about you have no problem labeling those who teach differently as unbiblical and anti Christ. I actual find that similar to claiming the teaching as heresy and also scorching the doctrinal earth.

  14. Jean says:

    Michael,

    Although a bit of a rabbit trail, since we’re on the topic of John MacArthur, what are your thoughts on Lordship Salvation soteriology?

  15. Jean says:

    MLD,

    Michael didn’t label “those” … anti-Christ, he said the “campaign” (i.e., the teaching) is unbiblical and anti-Christ. There’s a big difference.

  16. Michael says:

    MLD,
    I’m not labeling the people.
    I’m addressing one doctrine.

  17. Michael says:

    Jean,
    I’m picking up Trey for a bit do I’ll speak to that later…

  18. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I said I would leave it alone.

  19. bob1 says:

    Some excellent links!

    I like Scot McKnight on penal substitution.

    I LOVED the Baptist guy talking about the dangers and folly
    of Christian nationalism. I’ve been waiting for a Baptist to talk about this. I mean, they’re the original defenders of religious liberty!

    Back when things were more normal, Christian nationalism wasn’t
    much of a thing. There were a handful of wackadoodle churches but a spiritual sixth grader could ID their error. Now unfortunately, it’s not as easy to discern them. This article helps!

    Money quotes:

    Long before the United States was conceived as a nation, a movement was afoot across Europe challenging the notion that governments can speak for God and embracing the belief that matters related to human conscience and religion are between the Creator and the created.

    Christian nationalism – including the tendency of many evangelicals to seek power for themselves (and their version of Christianity) – is a threat to the true liberty of all.

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