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185 Responses

  1. Linn says:

    Erick Woods-Ericson’s article-i know a few other people like him. Politics has just faded away for them with all the lunacy of the last election. My friends who used to talk and analyze every political breath are now silent. That may change after the inauguration, but I am thankful. We all need the break.

  2. Michael says:

    Linn,

    I hope that starts happening here as well!

  3. bob sweat says:

    Should Trump ever be elected again, Hibbs should be in his cabinet.

  4. Michael says:

    Should Trump be elected again, I’ll be in the liquor cabinet…
    The funny thing is now that it looks like they’re losing the political cash cow, they’re moving immediately to eschatology…

  5. DavidP says:

    “Kris Vallotton is a false prophet”

    Yes, and the recent attempts to make it look like anything else in Christianity Today were super cringey.

  6. Jean says:

    “they’re losing the political cash cow”

    Not Trump, though, he is making out like a bandit on the phony election rigging claims.

  7. CM says:

    Michael,

    Eschatalogy was always a cash-cow for those Hal Lindsey dispy fans like Hibbs and Calvary Chapel. That being said, Hibbs is either an idiot or the cult leader/con artist like his Orange Dear Leader.

    Jean (in regards @ 10:28 AM): Just one more con for all the suckers on the way out the door. 75% or more of the so-called “Election Defense Fund” goes into Trump’s pocket. The $100-200 million he scammed from his cult followers will make a nice down payment on the Deutsche Bank loan that comes due in a few months.

  8. CM says:

    Rule #1 of Trump: If you don’t recognize that Trump is a con artist, you are the mark.

    Rule #2 of Trump: Grifters gotta grift.

    Rule #3 of Trump: Everything Trump Touches Dies (ETTD). See Ted Cruz’s and Nikki Haley’s for examples.

  9. CM says:

    Forget to add: “See Ted Cruz’s and Nikki Haley’s future careers in politics as examples of ETTD.

  10. Steve says:

    Jean,. I know you don’t like Trump. But his election rigging claims aren’t phony. The attorney general in TX just filed suit against Michigan, Georgia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I hope it goes right to the SCOTUS so our constitution doesn’t get trampled in and the country, media and folks like yourself understand there was tremendous fraud in this election. I honestly doubt Biden will ever get to the white house.

  11. bob1 says:

    What in goodness’ name has happened to Eric Metaxas? He’s gone totally off the deep end. I knew the guy was some type of idjit, but…wow.

    Michael Gerson has a great piece in the WaPo about him and his delusions about Trump and the election.

    Gerson makes the point that people watching someone like Metaxas may be also likely to see Xnity as only for the gullible and misguided.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/prominent-evangelicals-are-directing-trumps-sinking-ship-that-feeds-doubts-about-religion/2020/12/07/5ad8eb0c-38c3-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html

  12. Properly pronouncing…Thahhh Beeast is very important. I hope everybody understands this. Anything less, just denigrates what we are trying to do here.

  13. CM says:

    Steve,

    The TX AG is grandstanding to avoid the fact that he is about to be indicted by the Feds. Second, the individual states set up the elections so the state of TX has ABSOLUTELY no standing in the case. It will be shot down like a clay target like all the other ones. There has been NO evidence of fraud. In ever single suit brought up by Trump or his allies they have said IN COURT this is NOT a fraud case or a case of election fraud every time. Read all the court filings for yourself for once.

    But you bought into the con and now are trapped in the sunk cost fallacy.

  14. josh hamrick says:

    Maybe yall could cut it out?

  15. Michael says:

    CM,
    I don’t want to revisit Trump…we’ve covered that ground.

  16. bob1 says:

    “The definition of insanity is counting the same votes and expecting a different result”

  17. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    bob 1,
    I thought the bible was quite clear that Christianity was for the gullible and misguided. The idea of a god being born of a virgin, or a god dying on a cross is absolutely too much for those of sound mind.
    Add to that, a god who makes himself come back to life saying “ok, that takes care of the sins for everyone who has ever lived” – well you gotta be pretty gullible to let some preacher pull that kind of wool over your eyes.

    Metaxas I only know from seeing a few of his Socrates interviews – so he may be nuttier than a fruitcake and if his gospel message made sense earlier, it was probably a false gospel.

  18. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Whenever I present Christ I always begin “you’re not going to believe this, but…”

  19. CM says:

    Steve,

    I read it. This is a press release masquerading as a lawsuit. Texas doesn’t have standing to raise these claims as it has NO say over how other states choose electors. It could have raised these issues in other cases and does not need to go straight to the Supreme Court. _It waited too late to sue_ and the remedy Texas suggests of disenfranchising tens of millions of voters AFTER THE FACT is unconstitutional. Finally, there’s no reason to believe the voting conducted in any of the states was done unconstitutionally.

    And to make it even more obvious to you:

    The Laches Doctrine is a legal common law defense in an equitable action that “bars recovery by the plaintiff because of the plaintiff’s undue delay in seeking relief.” This doctrine is based on the idea that the courts should not aid those who take an inordinate amount of time to raise their claims.

    But keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

  20. Em says:

    an overlooked item it seems
    our Constitution plainly states that only State legislatures can change the voting rules for any State and, i may be wrong but i believe that it has to be voted on by the State’s voters…..

  21. Jean says:

    Overlooked by who? The US Supreme Court and countless other federal and state judges? Are you seeing something “plainly” that all of the professional and Trump nominated judges are missing?

    And by the way, are you not troubled by State legislatures who want to disenfranchise their own voters after the fact by filing frivolous suits to invalidate election laws that they themselves passed beforehand? There, right there, is the fraud.

    And why? Because their idol lost. He lost. This isn’t Cuba, nor Venezuela, nor Belarus, nor Russia, nor China. Here the loser leaves office. And almost all do so with grace. Something the incumbent knows absolutely nothing about.

    And more Americans are seeing his true colors post election as he has practically stopped working for the people, ignores the pain and suffering of 10s of millions, spends his remaining time in front of the TV, on Twitter, on the phone with anyone who will pick up trying to persuade Governors and others to overthrow the lawful election, and would rather undermine our Constitution and democracy, rather than admit that he lost.

  22. Brandon says:

    Amen Jean (and CM). I think what has been most surprising to me is the evangelical insistence on knowing and labeling objective truth and then completely throwing that ideal out when their guy in power loses.

  23. Anon says:

    The current president is an enemy of democracy.

  24. I’m curious what people think about the conjunction? For all the importance I place on constellations and the like, I don’t really have any thoughts on the actual positions of the stars.

    I’m confident the Magi could locate the house utilizing the star. Finding Bethleham would be impossible, nearby necessitating a stop in Jerusalem to ask directions.

    Confirmation would be a seated young girl, with an child old enough to sit upright on her lap.

  25. Em says:

    To quote a frequent someone here…. “God have mercy… “

  26. Typo.
    …thereby..

  27. Em says:

    Nathan, Saturn and Jupiter?

  28. Tim says:

    The end of that first article from the Spectator is spot-on. As I said on Twitter, I don’t often agree with the Spectator, but this much is true. From the author: “I am not religious, so it is not my place to dictate to Christians what they should and should not believe. Still, if someone has a faith worth following, I feel that their beliefs should make me feel uncomfortable for not doing so. If they share 90 percent of my lifestyle and values, then there is nothing especially inspiring about them. Instead of making me want to become more like them, it looks very much as if they want to become more like me. ”

    Christians SHOULD stand out from the rest of the world, so that the world might see Jesus in us.

  29. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Tim, do you look at the Amish and see Jesus?

  30. Xenia says:

    I certainly saw Jesus when I used to visit Amish communities when I grew up in rural Ohio.

    Meanwhile, Mike McClure has been fined:

    https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/12/08/calvary-chapel-san-jose-held-in-contempt-defying-gathering-mask-orders-pastor-mike-mcclure/

  31. Muff Potter says:

    How do men like Hibbs hold such sway over people?
    People which I would guess are rational and otherwise intelligent adults.

  32. Kevin H says:

    MLD,

    As having grown up not far from Amish country and still visiting it from time to time, along with the strangeness, ill-informed doctrine, and unnecessary legalism I see, I have also always seen Jesus.

  33. Tim says:

    MLD – Several years ago when they forgave the man who gunned down several of their students, I did. And when I saw how they interacted with a ministry I used to work with in Lancaster, PA, I did. I have some theological disagreements with them but I have no doubt they know the Lord.

  34. CM says:

    Nathan,

    Here is an interesting article on what sort of conjunctions could have been the star:

    http://www.astronomynotes.com/history/bethlehem-star.html

  35. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Tim, I don’t doubt that the Amish are Christians – I just don’t agree with the “should stand out from the rest of the world” part.
    I will state up front that I am not much into lifestyle evangelism – that somehow people will know I am a Christian by how I live. (I don’t think that the so call St Francis quote is christian either – but that’s just me.) Now I don’t think fitting into the world disqualifies a person either.

    these guys look Amish – but I don’t see Jesus in them (Hasidic Jews)

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ef53bf1d590398ff19344e5410573517-c

  36. Em says:

    “fitting into the world”…? Is tjat the description of an ambassador?

  37. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, I said it shouldn’t disqualify you. Hey, Paul said he became all things to all people.
    I don’t think someone standing out dressed like John the Baptist yelling at people will work today.

  38. Steve says:

    National voter ID would probably fix some of this election mess but it’s usually the democrats that oppose such safe guards. Why is that? The only reason I can think of in opposing such a thing is to commit fraud. Just saying..

  39. Jean says:

    Steve,

    What mess?

    I live in Iowa. I voted by absentee. Trump won. No claim of mess.

    The only mess is the fabrication by the orange calf.

  40. Jean says:

    “The only reason I can think of in opposing such a thing is to commit fraud.”

    What angers me are comments like this that, without any evidence, people, many of them self-identifying Christians, are willing to call me and other Democrats “thieves,” and “frauds.” What the hell has possessed such people?

  41. Steve says:

    Jean. I never called you a fraud. I think you are one of the most genuine people on here. In you haven’t read it yet, 16 other states joined in with TX. I kind of call that a mess. You are right. Trump won. But back to my point. Why is a national voter ID card so controversial with Dems? I honestly don’t get it.

  42. Jean says:

    16 States plus TX feel that their idol is more valuable than the American Constitution, the will of the American people, and justice. That is the mess, not the Biden victory. Direct your ire where it belongs.

  43. Jean says:

    I don’t know what (or anything about) “a national voter ID.” I thought presidential elections are administered by the States.

    But I will ask this: If there was a federal say or administration or regulation over a national voter ID, how do you think Trump and his lackeys would treat voters who are in demographics that don’t favor him? For that reason, I would never in a million years want a man like Trump anywhere near the right to vote.

  44. Steve says:

    Actually 17 states. Maybe your home state Iowa will even join and make it 18. I’m not angry at anyone. If Biden ever makes it to the Whitehouse, I will be completely surprised and baffled but not angry at all.

  45. MM says:

    Anon said this:

    “The current president is an enemy of democracy.”

    Like so many who just throw out terms and statements without meaning. I have two ask this, do you really understand what democracy is?

    Also do you understand the systems of Local, State and Federal Government structure established in these United States so many years ago?

    I’ll answer the first question for you, the USA is a Representative Republic.

    A simple popular vote is not Democracy and essentially is mob rule.

    Citizens vote at local and State level for people who represent us in the legislative bodies of our Governments. These representatives voted in by the population are not demi-gods nor are they dictators. By law they have been given certain executive powers to act in emergency and time sensitive matters. As the COVID crisis is demonstrating, many of the representatives have possibly crossed the line of their executive authority allowed by law.

    Even when a citizen initiated change in law happens it does so at the local and state levels and is then voted on by those who can legally do so.

    This rhetoric , “enemy of democracy” and similar statements, are just foolishness and demonstrates our failures to educate the general population.

  46. Jean says:

    Steve,
    I’m going to be blunt.

    The federal judiciary has demonstrated its independence from the coercion of Trump. In addition, I have faith in the uniformed armed forces that it will not intervene on behalf of Trump.

    Therefore, if you will be surprised and baffled by Biden’s swearing in to the presidency, then you are a brainwashed individual. I hope that a man calling himself a pastor did not contribute to your condition.

  47. Steve says:

    Jean, Im waiting until the electoral college votes before calling Biden president elect because he’s not currently.

  48. Bride of Christ says:

    The Supreme Court just threw out the Republicans case of voter fraud yesterday. How is this even a debatable issue? MOST of the Supreme Court are conservatives, many appointed by Trump himself! Barr, himself, has said there was no election fraud. Christopher Krebbs, election and cyber security official appointed by Trump, , has also testified that there was no election fraud. Anyone who wants to overturn the election at this point is clearly attempting to hijack our democratic process and is attempting a coup. We have laws against ” sedition” in America. It seems that this is clearly can attempt to overthrow our legally elected president. If you still want Trump as your president, you are advocating for the overthrow of our democratic process – you need to OWN that.

  49. Michael says:

    Bride of Christ,

    Yes and amen…

  50. Steve says:

    BoC,. It seems to me the the Supreme Court ordered 4 states to respond to TX complaint tomorrow. I suppose they could have thrown out the case and maybe they will but won’t know until tomorrow.

  51. Jean says:

    Steve,

    “BoC,. It seems to me the the Supreme Court ordered 4 states to respond to TX complaint tomorrow.”

    Was this revealed to you by the Holy Spirit or do you have a link to the order?

  52. Xenia says:

    I reluctantly voted for Trump. He lost. Time for him to find another line of work, come January.

  53. Michael says:

    Jean,

    This is another and hopefully, the last Hail Mary from Trump.
    It’s going to work as well as the other 46 he’s lost…

  54. Jean says:

    Thank you Michael.

    Xenia, I have a ton of respect and love for you.

    Michael,

    If Trump had conceded, I would have treated the loss with humility and, honestly, would not want to rub it in anyone’s nose. I know the political acrimony does not please you, and I have no desire whatsoever to agitate you.

    But when, day after day, people fabricate invectives against people like me, but not just me (and I am the least of it), but volunteers, public servants, even Republicans, who have the audacity to call a spade a spade, I get upset. And when the lies are repeated in a community of faith, I find it hard, impossible, to keep silent.

    If a Christian cannot even keep himself or herself from parroting unsubstantiated gossip, lies, and accusations against their own fellow citizens, their own fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, then how low is the bar? Is there any mark of a Christian whatsoever that exists in the public domain. If not, then is the faith a complete fabrication?

  55. Michael says:

    Jean,

    Very well stated and I fully agree.
    I’m exhausted…trying to moderate between brethren in real life along with those lovely brethren who would tell my autistic godson that I am not a Christian because I do not support Trump.
    I have no idea what will become of all of this, but these are the darkest days of my 62 years…

  56. Em says:

    MLD @3:23 a camels hair toga and a loin cloth of skins? 😏
    bet that would get everyone’s attention…..But……
    You go first…. LOL

  57. Em says:

    Michael @5:10
    The days seem dark to most now…. Do we sense something? Dunno, but praying we are wrong

  58. Em says:

    Parroting lies? Hmmm
    Sounds a bit judgemental…… Must know something….. Maybe something i don’t want to know..

  59. Dan from Georgia says:

    My wife received a group text last night from a friend of ours that had a link to a Facebook page…RED FLAG!!! So today I queried my friend as to the content of the page since the page no longer exists. So today my friend texts me back saying it was nothing bad (just a side business thing). Then my friend tells me that she is thinking about us here in Georgia with all the election stuff and that they are praying that the SCOTUS will help out Trump. So I responded back to her saying that I don’t usually talk politics, but in this case I stated that there is no evidence of fraud, and that all cases of alleged fraud have been dismissed and/or debunked, and that the Supreme Court is not going to hear a case that has no merit (evidence). I also told her that she should be cautions about getting her information from Facebook or from friends who hate Democrats. Lastly I said that I love them (my friend and her husband), and that I am not trying to start a debate. I am still friends with them because blood is thicker than politics.

    She sent me a nice text back, but didn’t address my concerns and cautions. I really feel bad that people just cannot seem to engage or look at opposing viewpoints, and have the humility to consider that maybe they are mistaken.

    BTW, living in Georgia I am privy to some items of note that some of you may not be. Erick Erickson, who is linked here, has a radio home here in ATL on WSB radio. Today his take on the TX lawsuit against these four states (which was this morning) was that basically this lawsuit has no merit. He’s a conservative btw.

    My belief is that Trump had his time, and now it his time to move on. Life is bigger than Trump and this nation can do without him in office.

  60. Michael says:

    Dan,

    I don’t know what’s more dangerous…Covid fatigue or Trump fatigue…but I have both… 🙂

  61. Dan from Georgia says:

    It is exhausting and hard, and I am glad I am able to retain a friend I have had since 1988.

  62. Anon says:

    There should be no doubt.

    Joe Biden will be sworn in as President on Wednesday, Jan.20.

    But in case there is…

    Despite Trump’s venting and threats, Biden’s win is sealed

    https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-elections-9b055e7ed6c784e9b1906fcfc7e7665c

  63. Steve says:

    Just so everyone is clear, the supreme court case that TX is bringing to the 4 states isn’t about fraud per say, it’s really about the constitution but it could have some major consequences. I think the fraud case will come later with Sidney Powell. I think we will know more in a few hours with the TX case. You may all be right but why not wait a bit before you pontificate on what hasn’t happened yet? I’m not one to say, I told you so so this will be my last post on this matter. I have no horse in this race, but it does seem like a no brainier that the SCOTUS will way in on this case in some fashion. My question to Jean is if the court doesn’t rule the way he is expecting them to or the way he wants them to,is it all Trump’s fault for nominating some of them?

  64. Jean says:

    “I have no horse in this race,” That’s BS. You showed your horse at 12.09 pm.

    “My question to Jean is if the court doesn’t rule the way he is expecting them to or the way he wants them to,is it all Trump’s fault for nominating some of them?”

    I already stated that I have confidence in the independence of the federal judiciary. The lifetime appointments insulate them from political coercion.

    If they ruled in favor of Trump it would be because there is evidence of fraud or other illegality sufficient to change the election outcome. Guess what? There isn’t.

    Sidney Powell is the Kraken of frauds. Follow her at the peril of your own reputation.

    I will be honest Steve, your standing, credibility and reputation, as far as I’m concerned, has taken a significant hit tonight. I don’t know if I would trust anything you have to say about anything after your comments here tonight.

  65. Thanks CM.
    The Magi should have possed records giving a general idea of the Messiah’s birth. They could guess the approach based on the already known year of his death.

    That still leaves me wondering how they identify a specific astrological event with the birth.

  66. Steve says:

    Jean,. I have an open mind. I’ll wait until tomorrow to see if anything happens with the multi state supreme court case. My horse is not Trump. If anything it’s the constitution in this case. Your typical of the cancel culture. If we don’t stand on your liberal side, we are cancelled.

  67. The New Victor says:

    CCSJ’s previous fines were over $350k, IIRC, from a previous story. This current story made the Facebook news feed. That they are making zero attempts to enact any safety protocols is astounding.

  68. Anon says:

    That they are making zero attempts to enact any safety protocols is astounding.

    I agree, only instead of astounding, I’d say “sickening, nauseating and irresponsible.”

  69. Linn says:

    Steve,
    I’ve been following your comments all day, not quite believing what I’m reading. I’m not part of cancel culture, and I’m fairly conservative, but I’ve never been able to deal with Trump, and I’ve never voted for him. But, for the folks who still think he “won” the election and believe that Biden won’t be inaugurated, the only adjective I can think of is “delusional.” It totally boggles my mind. It’s like we have a large part of the population that never took civics, doesn’t understand how elections and the Supreme Court work…I lived in a country for almost a decade where we all knew what election fraud was. Leftist guerrillas would come tumbling out of the jungle to steal ballot boxes at gunpoint and poor slum dwellers would “sell” their vote for a sack of cement or a zinc roof to make home improvements. And there were always the bribes but I see none of that occurring in this last election.

  70. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think it is telling that in the same thread where the appeal is made for Christians to stand out from the world so people will “see Jesus” the we sound like any talk radio station discussing politics and culture.

  71. Owen says:

    Just wanted to say, FWIW, the link ” How the F- am I the sane one?” is the best thing I’ve read in awhile, too.
    Much-needed perspective.

  72. Xenia says:

    Thank you, Jean. Likewise!

  73. MM says:

    And the pot calls the kettle black…

    Jean said:

    “I will be honest Steve, your standing, credibility and reputation, as far as I’m concerned, has taken a significant hit tonight.”

    The award for the wisest statement in this entire thread goes to MLM!

    It bears repeating:

    “I think it is telling that in the same thread where the appeal is made for Christians to stand out from the world so people will “see Jesus” the we sound like any talk radio station discussing politics and culture.”

    Amen!
    Preach it brother!

  74. MM says:

    Correction:

    The award for the wisest statement in this entire thread goes to MLD!

  75. Just saw we did a quid pro quo in Western Sahara. I’m stunned. Talk about a blast from the past. This is 1970’s stuff, it’s so old. Here’s my reaction:

    Dispensationalism died. Not from doctrinal opposition, but sudden collapse brought on by internal corruption.

    Seven years short of it’s 200th birthday, it’s dead. Just the idea that a world leader, identified as a latter-day Messiah, cutting deals for Israel, is the Disp Antichrist. Have we not sat through these sermons?

    I look back now on Christian Zionism as naive. In 1827, Darby crafted his vision of a two-fold work of God, prior to the emergence of an actual Israel. His Israel was a notional, not actual nation. Real Israel later emerges and it has unattractive features like every other nation, ever. Darby’s Britain was a minor homeland to Jews, and certainly America was likewise. I doubt any normal Briton had daily close contact with Jews.

  76. Michael says:

    https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/12/09/calvary-chapel-san-jose-pastor-mike-mcclure-defies-contempt-of-court-covid-19-violations-indoor-services/

    I was going to write about this, but I really have no ability to write these days.
    The hospitals in that area are nearing capacity, but Jesus wants the show to go on…

  77. Em says:

    Micharl, while i don’t think old lady hugs resuscitate very much…
    Consider yourself hugged.. LOL – and prayed for…
    God keep

  78. CM says:

    Steve,

    You are seriously deluded if you think this TX is about the Constitution. A big part of that Texas lawsuit revolves around Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia using drop-boxes.

    “Using the Covid-19 pandemic as a justification,” Paxton wrote, officials in the battleground states “usurped their legislatures’ authority and unconstitutionally revised their state’s election statutes.” He said they had done so through “executive fiat.” He pointed specifically to mail-in ballots, which he said were placed “in drop boxes” with “little or no chain of custody,” which weakened signature verification and witness requirements, which he called “the strongest security measures protecting the integrity of the vote.”

    What about all the other states that used drop-boxes, like South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Nebraska, Florida, Louisiana, Kansas, and Kentucky (to name a few). Of these states listed ONLY Montana has laws that permit drop boxes. And so the hypocrisy you, the TX AG, and the states listed above who filed friends of the court briefs is noted. Maybe if TX gets its way, then all the votes in those Trump states should be thrown out as well.

    You are no Constitutionalist PERIOD.

  79. Michael says:

    Thanks, Em…blessings to you.

  80. Anon says:

    Jesus wants the show to go on…

    Yes, indeed. Sadly, it appears there’s a sucker born every minute…

  81. Anon says:

    “America under Trump became less free, less equal, more divided, more alone, deeper in debt, swampier, dirtier, meaner, sicker, and deader. It also became more delusional.

    No number from Trump’s years in power will be more lastingly destructive than his 25,000 false or misleading statements. Super-spread by social media and cable news, they contaminated the minds of tens of millions of people. Trump’s lies will linger for years, poisoning the atmosphere like radioactive dust.”

    — George Packer

  82. Nancy Holmes says:

    We think of these rough political times as unprecedented, but a recent article about this country’s pre-revolutionary history shows the long exercised tendency of Americans to engage in conspiracy theories and virulent histrionic declamations. It gives some perspective that I find both mind boggling but yet encouraging. Somehow the country still managed to form and survive our worst tendencies. God is merciful–let us look Him for our hope.

    https://ageofrevolutions.com/2020/12/03/they-chase-specters-the-irrational-the-political-and-fear-of-elections-in-colonial-pennsylvania/

  83. bob1 says:

    God is merciful–let us look Him for our hope.

    Amen, Nancy!

  84. Steve says:

    It’s on the docket. I guess we will find out soon enough what they say. I’m open to learning and listening but don’t sense much of that here from others. I’m curious, but it saddens me most here are already convinced they know exactly what the court will do. It’s quite amazing the prophets we seem to have for telling this. I honestly don’t have a clue how they will rule.

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/22o155.html

  85. bob1 says:

    This is seditious garbage. It’s basically a PR stunt. Among other things, the Texas AG is trying to wrangle a pardon from the current president.

    Looks like maybe the state AGs want to secede from the rest of us.

    News flash: South ain’t gonna do it again!

  86. bob1 says:

    Those suckers who gave $$ to Trump’s legal campaign are being played like fiddles.

    Trump has access to 75% of all money that comes in. You know he won’t use it for these lawsuits. Our Grifter-in-Chief will pocket the money.

    You’ve been played.

  87. Jean says:

    “I’m open to learning and listening but don’t sense much of that here from others.”

    Steve, What are you smoking? Is the following not your comment from yesterday:

    “But his election rigging claims aren’t phony. The attorney general in TX just filed suit against Michigan, Georgia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I hope it goes right to the SCOTUS so our constitution doesn’t get trampled in and the country, media and folks like yourself understand there was tremendous fraud in this election. I honestly doubt Biden will ever get to the white house.”

    You’re about as open as my rear end before my last colonoscopy.

  88. Em says:

    Someone may have better info, but….
    My understanding is that Texas joined the Union with the provision that, should they choose to do so, they CAN withdraw…. ?

  89. bob1 says:

    Em,

    What possible good would that do, or prove?

  90. Duane Arnold says:

    Current Supreme Court precedent, in Texas v. White, holds that the states cannot secede from the union by an act of the state. More recently, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia stated, “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”

  91. Steve says:

    For starters, the PA response says TX is trying to disenfranchise ALL pennsylvania voters. Nonsense! I live in Pennsylvania, and what happened here is pathetic. Ironically, TX is actually fighting for half of the voters in Pennsylvania.

  92. Anon says:

    S..E. Cupp: Right wing media isn’t doing journalism.

    It’s doing fan fiction.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/media/2020/12/10/right-wing-media-fan-fiction-trump-election-se-cupp-sot-vpx.cnn

  93. Dave says:

    Jean,

    Gee …I’m wondering if anyone has reported a missing rhetoric thermostat, or might have experienced a blown fuse.😁

    The ‘animated’ exchange of head-to-head verbal sparring between opponents, just inspired a youthful flashback of technicolor video combat …played out on immense floor-standing arcade consoles “Mortal Kombat” & “Street Fighter II”.

    “Body blow! Body blow!” … “Finish him!” “Flawless victory!”

    Oddly, those graphic depictions of violence in arcade video games …never featured a playable Paramedic character, whom could treat and medically evacuate the wounded.

  94. Anon says:

    Speaking of rhetoric…

    Wow, Dave. You must be a riter or somethin’?

  95. Jean says:

    At this point, I will recall that many, many months ago, Michael observed the deep divide in this country, and the potential for bringing down our country and civil war. At that time, some people commented that Michael was exaggerating and/or paranoid.

    However, in the current situation, there are Republicans publicly declaring their willingness to die for Trump; we have State and Federal legislators who would be happy overturning elections without evidence of fraud, so that Republican legislators could overrule the will of their citizens and appoint Trump electors. What could possibly be more evil in a Democratic Republic?

    There are only a very few Republican voices who are willing to stand up to Trump and say that he lost and that these lawsuits are frivolous. Ben Sasse is one. There are a few courageous GOP governors who have defended their elections as proper.

    Trump doesn’t measure his rhetoric by its potential to foment violence. I see no evidence that he would be disappointed if his militias started shooting.

    Some people on this blog seem to think the election was rigged, that the election was stolen. Why do you think this? Because Trump and a cohort of downright crazy attorneys, talk show hosts, and celebrity, charismatic preachers just fabricate accusations – all of which are debunked the second they come under the light of judicial review.

    You listen to these crazy people, because you have absolutely no first hand knowledge of fraud, nor are you professionally educated to opine on Constitutional law. So you are willing pawns and frankly fools.

    My hope and my prayer are that there are still enough sane people in the GOP that working with Democrats going forward, we can keep our country together and be a place where Christians can live, work raise kids and prosper.

    Because the dead-ender Trump wing and his worshipers are ready to burn this mother down and they don’t give a flying F about you, your family, your job or this country. It’s all about Trump for them. Trump is literally their god. I hope he isn’t yours.

    The devil has come out of the Trojan horse. He’s within the borders of our country. I hope all Christians bear their armor.

  96. Xenia says:

    I think the best thing is to wait it out with all the grace we can muster up. I believe our government still works well, for the most part, and all the chaos Trump is trying to inject into the system will fail. He will to his estate in Florida and seethe, but eventually his followers will move on to their next project. Meanwhile, President Biden will fix some things that needs fixing and will make some other things worse but he will be the President.

  97. Xenia says:

    I can envision a nightmare scene where Trump refuses to depart the White House and his loyal fans, those willing to die for him, will form a ring around the White House. Regular people who want to see a peaceful transition of government (Biden folk) may form a second ring, but a third ring can be formed by antifa and other anarchists, and there will be violence. If this is duplicated around the country, this will be the spark that sets off…. well, I can’t quite bring myself to say war, but aggression between various groups. I can’t see a war in the future, to be honest. But I can see a lot of destructive chaos.

    It all depends if Trumps shuffles off to Mar A Lago before the inauguration. If he does, it might be ok. But I do not think he cares about things being “ok.”

  98. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I will first say that I quit commenting on the election around the time the AP called the race for Biden. My long standing position here is that Presidential elections mean very little in a person’s everyday life. This will be my 14th presidential administration and as I have said, almost all the problems that existed in my first (Truman) still linger today.

    But for anyone to be upset that there is fraud and corruption in elections is just silly – of course there is and it starts on day 1 when a candidate starts asking for money. Now on the other side, for those who deny fraud and corruption in this or any other election, I think you may be more foolish – but I can’t end silly & foolish.

    Some posts go way beyond acceptable bounds. I counted no less than 25 Ad Hominems, several Appeals to Authority, not to mention (well I guess I am mentioning it), a secret knowledge into peoples motives in Jean’s last fantasy post.

    Out of curiosity, can someone name 5 GOP folks who have publicly stated that they are willing to die for Trump?

    Whether anyone likes it or not, all this division is happening in the courts and the legislatures and not in the streets as we saw this past summer – remember, as of this date in 2000 Al Gore was still trying to deprive America of election closure.

  99. Em says:

    President Biden will fix some things…. now that takes faith! ! ! 😇

  100. Michael says:

    “Because the dead-ender Trump wing and his worshipers are ready to burn this mother down and they don’t give a flying F about you, your family, your job or this country. It’s all about Trump for them. Trump is literally their god. I hope he isn’t yours.”

    I haave talked to way too many people who have lost families and churches over all this to deny what has been said by Jean.
    The damage done is irreparable to both church and state and I mourn over the place where my young ones will have to live.
    For them, the nightmare is just beginning.

  101. Xenia says:

    Em, yes, I believe he will. I hope he does something about the children being held down at the border, and I care about environmental issues. Biden is not the devil.

  102. Em says:

    Biden does fit the category of senility, though… Pray – pray a lot. 🙏

  103. Michael says:

    I’m not a big Biden fan.
    My prayer is that he will do what Xenia said and then be the dullest president in recent memory…instead of one constantly creating chaos for his own pleasure.

  104. Linn says:

    I live just down the road from these brethren. They also run a school that doesn’t have a mask mandate. As the hospitals fill, I wonder how many are coming from this church.

  105. Michael says:

    Biden stutters…he’s not senile.
    He held up well in the debates.
    My mom has early dementia…and it’s kind of offensive that people keep using that term inappropriately.

  106. Michael says:

    Linn,

    That’s a reasonable question…

  107. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The Right will not burn anything down. However, If the courts (the legitimate authority) reverses anything, I guarantee the Left will burn it down – we saw the preview this summer.

    I live in Trump country – we are rural and called the most red county in Arizona and we see none of this happening. Many folks still fly their Trump flags (hey my brother still has his Kerry / Edwards sticker on his car bumper) but peaceful. I see them at the grocery, my church, the Elks Club. They may be crying in their beer, but they are passive.

  108. I don’t see the threat of civil war as much as I see the potential for national paralysis. If such an event occurs, I do not see the US remaining the global leader in this scenario. Not an armed conflict, but an inability to carry out normal daily life and government.

    If this happens, I imagine it as a direct consequence of the failure to settle the issues that caused the original succesion and Civil War.

  109. Having grown up in the Religious Right, I now believe is the modern decendent of the Confederacy. I no longer see the Confederacy as having lost the war. The South just left off the military effort and transformed into a cultural and political struggle. Within months of Lee’s surrender, a Confederate sympathizer was President. The suppression of Blacks was underway. A revisionist history emerged centered on States Rights, and fiscal conservatism.

    I feel naive now. I was very attracted to Conservatism at an extreamly young age. Today if I hear slogans like…Starve the Beast…I take it literally. The objective was to shut off food, retirement benifits and medical care to minorities and poor whites.

  110. Em says:

    “When in doubt run in circles, scream and shout…. ” we used to say that . … when i was young. 👵
    Are dementia and senility synonomous? If so, Michael, please accept my apology for being offensive. 😘

    Could i say, perhaps, then that old Biden might have a screw loose? The press has not shown him when he has shown his slips…. Unless you follow NewsX

    God keep us all and keep us praying

  111. Michael says:

    “Having grown up in the Religious Right, I now believe is the modern decendent of the Confederacy.”

    That’s fascinating…have to think about that some more…

  112. Em says:

    The south ran out of options back in 1860+ The north sent carpet bagger politicians and the south kinda sorta went underground.. A bad part of the nation to try to live if you were Black.. ugly, ugly undercurrent in many places down there….

  113. bob1 says:

    Biden is not the devil.

    Xenia,

    You know that and I know that.

    But I’m really starting to wonder, with all the hysteria and willful ignorance of facts going on, if there are indeed lots of right-wingers who really believe that?

    God help us if that’s true. The country needs at least 2 active political parties, if not more.

  114. bob1 says:

    I think Mr. Dreher did a masterful job of laying out the evidence and make the point that he wasn’t attacking this guy personally. Must’ve been kinda tough for him, as he says they’ve known each other for 20 years. I think that shows how serious what’s going on here is.

    Here’s just 1 quote from the much longer piece. I found it horrifying and fascinating, kinda like watching train wreck.

    (Dreher quoting Metaxis)
    “This is trying to kill the American people. This is everything.” And he says to believe otherwise is listening to “the voice of the Devil.”

    Think about that. An Evangelical broadcaster is saying that Donald Trump’s election loss is a thousand times worse than rape and murder, equivalent to the murder of a nation. And if you don’t believe it? You are demonized.

  115. The New Victor says:

    I think that if there were an outbreak at CCSJ (or the school), it would be huge news.

    Here in East SJ, they are going to start going door to door to provide tests given the outbreak in the Latino population. It’s been implied this is due to institutionalized racism. The high school here has offered free drive and walk up tests for months, yet the most I’ve seen is a line of about 6 cars and most of the time is empty. It’s in large part culture, like the birthday party I was invited to this weekend: 4 households and over 16 people. I spent Thanksgiving alone yet let her take the kids(3 households, about 12 people). No, and I’m not letting their mom borrow the kids to go. If so, I might as well go myself. Also in the central valley where the virus is worse than the silicon Valley.

  116. Jean says:

    If I get up and go into my bathroom and for 30 consecutive days scream into the mirror, “I am 7 feet tall, I am 7 feet tall,” over and over again from sunrise to sunset, and I petition a court to enjoin the Department of Motor Vehicles to change my height on my license from 6 feet to 7 feet and to enjoin the Boston Celtics to give me a tryout, how should the court rule?

  117. CM says:

    Jean,

    Considering that those filing those suits are 1-55, I would say they would dismiss with prejudice (like many of the others). These plaintiffs are lucky the judge did not make them pay all the court costs and legal fees for both sides.

    To put it terms what people is this forum will understand is that Trump’s MO for decades was file many BS and spurious lawsuits to wear the other guy down (especially those without deep pockets) so they give in. In a civil suit context, this is tactic is known as Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation (SLAPP). Gee does this sound familiar? I find it ironic that all the Trump leg-humpers here seem to be OK with all these BS lawsuits but were likely up in arms against megachurch pastors pulling the same s*it against abuse victims and whistleblowers.

  118. Em says:

    Some language used here betrays the writer’s lack of understanding…. sorrowful

  119. Michael says:

    I ask again.
    Please try to communicate with civility.

  120. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean @ 7:47 – I thought yelling in the mirror for long enough is what effectuates change in our society?
    Thousands of men yell into the mirror that they are women and the court says OK and let’s the play women’s sports, use women restrooms and locker rooms and mandates the DMV to allow them to select gender of choice on their driver’s license.

    This is all 21st century normal – where have you been?

  121. 24 hours after the bizarre Western Sahara announcement, we have a theory of explanation. It makes sense, and it is entirely related to US culture wars, and personal relationships.

    My comments about a corrupt Dispensationalism may be hard to follow, but I strongly hold to this view. Each “Dispensation” of God always becomes corrupt. Disp is a pessimistic theology, as opposed to Post Millinalism’s optimism, and Church triumphant.

    It’s a denial of Disp basic tenant to attempt a Kingdom on Earth, because all things set in motion, will go into decline and failure.

    The solution according to Disp is to escape the corruption to come. The Church was the Heavenly portion and calling, of God’s two fold work among mankind. The Rapture was the cure, and only cure.

    For a Pre-Mil Dispensational theology, to them be subordinated to an outside political allegiance, is to become it’s own foretold apostasy.

    I would be reluctant to discribe current affairs as a marriage. Prostitution might be better. Another is perhaps groupy status. An infactuation with a typically male figure.

  122. Nancy Holmes says:

    Nathan
    I realize that “infactuation” was probably a misspelling of infatuation, but it brought to mind how appropriate “infectuation” would be in that context. Just sayin’…

  123. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Nathan, why bother with the anti Christian doctrines of premillenial dispensationalism?

    Although there may be some Christians in that movement, they are totally deceived by Satan.

    If you are talking about them as a secular philosophy with opinions on world events, I wouldn’t go further than that.
    Walvoord and Ryrie have erred much greater than Darby.

  124. Nancy. Yes a typo.

    But now that you brought it up, clearly the White House has a hygiene issue. I would only presume this hygiene problem will spread through the Church for the same reasons. I’m shocked specific groups like CC and Grace Community Church haven’t experienced mass illness yet.

  125. MLD?
    *Some Christians? Do you not recall the sq footage Costco set aside for the Left Behind Series? Wildly popular and influencial.
    *I always look at Darby as the father.
    *Zionism would not have spread throughout the US without Dispensationalism’s prophecy focus.

  126. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    So because it is big does not mean it is Christian.
    Because many christians bought a series of books inspired by Satan does not make it Christian literature.
    Zionism is not Christian theology by any stretch.

    There are Christians within the false teaching groups of pre mil dispey just as there a Christians within the non Christian religion of Mormonism. No difference.

  127. josh hamrick says:

    BWahahahahahahahah

  128. Xenia says:

    Those Left Behind books….

    I remember when I was trying to put together a school library for an evangelical high school where I taught for a few years. To get accredited (which they eventually were), we needed a certain number of volumes on the shelves so I asked parents to contribute used books they didn’t need anymore. We got an enormous number of various books in the Left Behind series. People didn’t seem to think they were worth keeping.

  129. Xenia says:

    But on the other hand, I have noticed that many people don’t collect books anymore and have DVDs on their shelves instead of books. They probably don’t even have those anymore.

    So maybe the pile of Left Behind books I collected weren’t indicative of anything special, just a reflection of a trend not to keep books.

  130. josh hamrick says:

    I never read the books, but watched the first Kirk Cameron movie on a whim a couple of weeks ago.

    It wasn’t bad. Just sort of your typical disaster flick where the disaster in question was The Rapture. If you looked at is as prophecy or something, then yeah, bad. But just as a fictional movie based on a cataclysmic event, I’ve seen much worse.

  131. Xenia says:

    I do not believe Dispensationalists have been tricked by Satan. I think they are simply mistaken about some things.

  132. josh hamrick says:

    I agree with Xenia. And I’m a dispensationalist, for the most part.

  133. Em says:

    Christians adhering to Mormon doctrines are equal to Christians who see the saga of mans time on earth as dividing into dispensations?
    NOW THAT IS A STRETCH! ! ! ….. AND
    There is logic in a millennial reign of The Christ as an absolute ruler… After a perfect governance, Satan still can gather the kings of the earth to rebel? Once and for all Cain’s mindset is put to rest… But…
    Either way, may God’s will be done
    God keep

  134. josh hamrick says:

    Anyone here ever read the Left Behind books, and want to admit enjoying them? I had some friends who loved them back in the day, same as people get into Hunger Games or whatever.

  135. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    If dispensationalist is true, then Zionism is true and we know from scripture that Zionism is false.

  136. josh hamrick says:

    Er…umm….uhh

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA

  137. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I read the first 6 left behind books. – fanciful at that but when you listen to Tim LaHaye speak about his motive was behind writing the books, it’s pretty dastardly.
    This is how Satan works – read and your eyes will be opened.

  138. josh hamrick says:

    Thankfully then, I didn’t read. But you did. So Satan got you, I guess.

  139. Michael says:

    The next comment calling a denomination “anti-Christ’ or blaming denominational differences on Satan will result in the immediate ban of the commenter.
    I’ve had enough.

  140. pstrmike says:

    “I do not believe Dispensationalists have been tricked by Satan. I think they are simply mistaken about some things.”

    Thanks Xenia. I think we all need to take a similar view regarding our “in house” disagreements. I no longer hold to a dispensational view, so I need to remember this when dealing with the sting of misinformed statements and hermeneutical assertions.

  141. I do not believe the source of Dispensationalism is Satan. Nor am I opposed in anyway yo Zionism. Disp was an honest attempt to interpret prophecy. It does have loose ends that can not be reconciled, notably in it’s seperation of Israel and the Church.

    I am saying that just shy of it’s 200th birthday, it’s core tenants where abondoned in pursuit of political and cultural objectives.

  142. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well that surely silences a conversation.

  143. Michael says:

    Calling other brethren dupes of Satan is not conversation.
    It is religious bullying and I won’t tolerate it.

  144. Jean says:

    I was reading a thread in a conservative Lutheran Facebook group, and a guy who is studying various traditions for purposes of possibly joining one of them said that after studying RC and the Lutheran confessions, he thought RC had certain pros and cons, while Lutheranism also had certain pros and cons. The guy sounded honest, conflicted and truly asking questions.

    Within the first 10 or so comments, a jerk Lutheran came on and told him that if he has read the Book of Concord, like he said he has, and hasn’t adopted everything in it as the true exposition of Scripture, then he is under the dominion of Satan.

    If I was that guy asking the questions, I think that would have been my last look at Lutheranism or at least that group.

  145. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, so you do not think that Satan has fueled any false teaching in the church or denominations.
    There is no “has God really said…”
    Yikes!!!

  146. josh hamrick says:

    “If I was that guy asking the questions, I think that would have been my last look at Lutheranism or at least that group.”

    Bingo.

  147. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I didn’t say that…but you excel in quoting things people never said.
    You will make a great addition to Parler…

  148. Xenia says:

    I joined Parler for a few days. It was like Christian X-Files. More X-Files than Christian, actually.

  149. Xenia says:

    And for a few weeks I was part of an online Orthodox group centered around a priest in Greece who is really a great person, but during his live broadcasts the people in chat were unbearable. Someone would mention a good Orthodox book and then the vultures would pounce on the author declaring him to be apostate, influenced by demons, etc. These were mostly young male converts who infest all religious groups, I think. Even the priest, who on the whole is admirable, had some ideas about COVID and the election that I was sick and tired of hearing about from certain parties. So I left them, too. And came back to good old reliable Phoenix Preacher. 🙂

  150. Kevin H says:

    I read most of the Left Behind books years ago and found them quite entertaining. I also came away from them more curious about other views of eschatology and thus now hold on to the dispensational view of eschatology even looser than ever before.

    Yeah, sure sounds like my experience was one inspired by Satan.

  151. Xenia says:

    So now our county is REALLY on lockdown, and I’ve been pretty much stuck here at the house since March, and while I am quite good at finding things to do, I confess I am suffering from a case of ennui. Now in the grand scheme of things, boredom and restlessness is small potatoes, but nevertheless, this is wearing thin. But me being bored doesn’t make COVID any less serious.

    Meanwhile, I was stressing out a bit over some of the COVID opinions of some of my church peeps, a few of which are anti-maskers. I just read an extremely reasonable statement from our Patriarch (Patriarch Kyrill of Moscow) who says COVID is most certainly NOT a hoax and people who believe it is have fallen for a lie and he knows too many people who have died from COVID to think otherwise. Thank God he has said this, although it won’t change the minds of a certain segment of our parish. My husband and I have been staying home and will miss Christmas services and that’s sad, but I do believe people are dying and I believe brotherly love requires me to think of other people and not just my “rights,” whatever those are.

    I’m rambling. Sorry.

  152. Kevin H says:

    And MLD,

    It was just a couple weeks ago that you were scolding me on Facebook for having the umbrage to say that some things Christians were doing on Facebook such as passing on slanderous information or treating people inequitably based on politics was sinful. You said I was in the wrong to do this and that you don’t do so yourself because you focus on your own sin.

    But calling out entire orthodox (yet flawed, as all are) Christian denominations and systematic theologies as Satanic is okay.

    Sometimes I’d love to live in your world where you get to make your own rules and care less what other people think.

  153. Em says:

    Sometimes the rambles here are more enjoyable and informative than the darts that are occasionally thrown.. 😻

  154. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, then I fail to see where we differ other than you know who Parlor is and I don’t. I will just assume it is some bad organization as deem it proper to associate me with them.

    You seem to agree that Satan does plant false teachings in the church (by your denial of what I said). So, the teachings of Satan are indeed satanic (by definition) – which I think you will agree.
    So, if we have satanic teachings in our churches and some people choose to follow those teachings, then are they not being duped by Satan in those teachings? I think so and I don’t see how you can deny it.

    The only thing we differ on is ‘which teachings’ – perhaps I have a higher bar, but we both agree there is satanic teaching in some Christian denominations and in regards to reading materials.

  155. Jean says:

    Xenia,

    It would be interesting if a journalist or sociologist would do a research article on the genesis of the Covid is a hoax or just another flu conspiracy. If we went back to March, before the election, before any judgments were being made politically, from where and why was the earliest hoax propaganda started?

    I truly don’t understand why at that early time someone thought such conspiracies would benefit anyone. I could imagine a foreign government believing it could sow discord in our country through the propagation of such conspiracies. But no legitimate scientist or health professional would support such conspiracies. Yet they took hold. Regrettably Trump himself flirted with them, again for reasons I don’t understand.

  156. josh hamrick says:

    PLEASE let me call other believers Satanic!! PLease!!!

  157. Muff Potter says:

    RE: Jean @12:40 PM,
    I’m surprised the jerko didn’t suggest that he be burnt at the stake too.

  158. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Kevin H – which Christian denomination did I call out?

    I only called out teachings – which in many cases are pan denominationalism – dispensationalism and Zionism.

  159. josh hamrick says:

    Good grief – Again, guys don’t take the bait. Never ends.

    Xenia – I’ve been very troubled by the politics and covid response in my church as well. In a sense, it is good to know that it isn’t just us. On the other hand, that means that bad ideas are pretty wide spread.

  160. Linn says:

    I began the first one and didn’t get past chapter 2, and it was that bad. And, I will admit to being a modified dispensationalist.

  161. Xenia says:

    There is a strong correlation, which is obvious, between the pro-Trumpers and the anti-maskers. The anti-maskers of my acquaintance are of the “Ain’t nobody gonna tell ME what to do” stripe, and Trump champions this philosophy. I think the hoax propaganda began when the government tried to tell people of this mindset that the had to wear masks. “Ain’t nobody gonna tell ME what I have to wear. ”

    Also, people aren’t falling over dead in the streets like we were told (but did this really happen?) happened in Wuhan. When people started noticing that almost everyone recovered from COVID, they took it upon themselves to proclaim the whole thing was a globalist plot to steal our liberty. It may ultimately rob us of many liberties, but this is the fault of the virus, not the government. I sincerely believe most government leaders are doing the best they can in an ever-changing situation. Many of my church peeps want to recall California’s governor, but I think he is doing the best he can, as far as COVID goes. In other areas, not so much.

    Just think: If it was mandated that everything EXCEPT churches be closed, the argument would be that the liberals want to herd us Christians into tight spaces so we’ll all catch COVID and die. I think Newsome actually wants to save our miserable lives….

  162. bob1 says:

    My post yesterday about whether Dems are from Satan has been echoed by a column in today’s Washington Post. Boy I hate having my
    opinions confirmed. 🙂

    “The Republican Party has proved that its hatred of liberals is so foundational that it will abandon any pretense of commitment to democracy, if democracy allows for the possibility that liberals might win an election. They have come to regard Democratic voters as essentially undeserving of having their will translated into power, no matter how large their numbers.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/11/hatred-liberals-is-all-thats-left-conservatism/

  163. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    bob1 – I can read as it is behind a pay wall.
    Does he mention any names who have made these statements or is it just “the republican party”?

  164. Jean says:

    “If the Supreme Court shows great Wisdom and Courage, the American People will win perhaps the most important case in history, and our Electoral Process will be respected again!”

    For any readers who support the TX lawsuit, who are the “American People,” who according to Trump “will win” if the Supreme Court rules in Trump’s favor? Are the 81+ million voters who voted for Biden “American People?” Because, surely they wouldn’t be winners, if the Supreme Court rules in Trump’s favor.

  165. Em says:

    We look at the mindless hard over liberals and supposed right wing Nazis and scream…..
    Why can’t we see these people as anomolies? Leaning left or right or sitting (uncomfortably) on the fence doth not a dangerous person make …. Does it? Hhmmm

  166. Anon says:

    Nananana

    Nananana

    Hey, hey…

    Goodbye!

  167. Jean says:

    Now that the nightmare is over, is it over (whether a nightmare, dream, fantasy, delusion or whatever) for those people who backed its legitimacy?

    Where do people here prioritize democracy and Donald Trump? Which one is more important to you?

    Please note that no evidence of fraud has been proffered in any lawsuit which would overturn any State’s election result.

    No allegation of an illegal election procedure has been found by any court in any State which would overturn any State’s election result.

    No evidence of a conspiracy has been proffered and no evidence of voting equipment hacking, malfunction or intentional malfeasance has been found by any court in any state which would overturn any State’s election result.

    Something like 50+ lawsuits have been filed in multiple jurisdictions at both the Federal and State level, before judges of both parties, so Trump and his supporters have had as much due process as the law affords.

    Are you all willing to not only accept Biden’s election but accept that he won more than 270 electoral votes as well as a significant majority of the popular vote?

  168. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    It was no nightmare – tomorrow is the 20th anniversary when SCOTUS ended Al Gore’s subversion of the American electoral process.
    This is not even new news.

    We came through this before with no scars – just faint memories.

  169. bob1 says:

    Jean,

    Not sure how Biden deniers will handle this. Therapy, perhaps?

    In my home state, Biden has won this election five times.

    Trump, the loser five times.

    Now we’ll see how many Repubs. have any cojones.

    I’m not optimistic.

  170. bob1 says:

    This funny Tik-Tok video reminds me…

    There will be a lot of slimeballs and snakes exit the WH soon if they haven’t already.

    Stephen Miller is the worst. Repulsive. Engineered the kids in cages and extreme immigration.

    Good riddance.

  171. Jean says:

    Bob1,

    There’s a story in the Gospel of Matthew about the time when collectors of the temple tax approached Peter to ask him if Jesus pays the tax.

    Jesus said to Peter: “ ‘What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tax? From their sons or from others?’ And when he said, ‘From others,’ Jesus said to him, ‘Then the sons are free.’ ”

    The point is that in a kingdom, the king and his children are not subject to the laws that the subjects of the kingdom are subject to.

    Trump has run the Whitehouse as if he is a king and his family members are children of the king. As a king, he and they are not subject to the laws that you and I are subject to.

    He has clung to power because once he loses the pardon power, certain immunities given to the president, and his ability to abuse the Department of Justice to serve his personal interests, he is fair game for criminal and civil prosecution for all the illegal things he has done to enrich himself and his family, both before and during his presidency.

    And without the pardon power, and the ability to coerce the cooperation of his staff, and interfere with witnesses, many may decide to sing, to stay out of sing-sing. Take Michael Cohen for example. Remember the proverb: When you play with slime, you cannot keep from getting slimy.

  172. Em says:

    Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it should be obvious that my clients – President elect Biden and Kamala are innocent, pure as the driven snow. . The glove don’t fit, so you know what to do… 😄

    This Trump supporter is okay… It is what it is. A democratic Republic gone under? The end of a dispensation (ha ha)? Time tells us what we weigh a nd may we be found still a functioning Constitutional Republic… Unsinkable by God’s mercy? Perhaps

  173. Dave says:

    Josh,

    Okay, okay …I’m comin’ outta the ‘JMac Dispy’ closet now too …are they gonna make us go find willow switches in preparation for a ‘whippin’?😏

    BTW: After I’d watched on YT, several hours of affidavit witness testimony in multiple state election board hearings, I can’t reflexively dismiss the thread of consistency reflected in the many similar narratives …as an incredulous, ‘sour grapes’ reaction. IMO the whistleblowers have nothing to gain …but much to lose, incurring political wrath at formidable risk to reputation and livelihood in recounting first-hand observations ‘under sworn penalty of perjury’ on camera. Their identities now of public record, some will become targets of militant opposition party affiliates, adept at weaponized social media attacks.

  174. The New Victor says:

    I read maybe the first 4 or 5 left behind books, though I saw they continued until Jesus himself became a speaking character. When the left behind Christians took up arms and started killing people? Ugh.

    The kids’ uncle and aunt canceled the birthday party tomorrow. The other sister in law, a nurse, has a little sore throat and is awaiting covid test results.

    Amador County (foothill/Mountain community in the Sierra), is now “purple tier”, the highest risk. In one town of 112 people, there are 8 positive cases, and i bet not everyone in the town limits has been tested. By ratio, that would be almost 80k people here in San Jose. We visited there Thanksgiving weekend, but didn’t go into town proper, just to a cave tour.

  175. CM says:

    I Left Dispensationalism Behind. Pun Intended.

  176. Anon says:

    The Onion Salutes the Courageous Legislators Determined to Overturn the Will of Voters

    https://politics.theonion.com/the-onion-salutes-the-courageous-legislators-determin-1845865496

  177. CM says:

    I think when the new Congress starts in January, Pelosi and the DNC majority should refuse to seat all 126 GOP members of the House who signed on that TX SCOTUS. Technically they could charged with sedition, a federal felony. If they refuse to acknowledge that Biden is POTUS once the EC vote is certified, then expell all of them.

    For all Trump fan boys that think this is too harsh, may I remind you that 11 Senators and 3 House Members were expelled in 1861 for not acknowledging Lincoln’s election and joining the Confederacy.

  178. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    2020 has suggested to me the likelihood that American evangelicals, mainlines and confessionalists have all been equally guilty of venerating The Beast and that the decline of the United States might be the best thing that can happen to American Christians since it could reveal where they have really been putting their hope in all these years, i.e. not necessarily Jesus. I don’t think we’re necessarily going to have a Rapture, more like God may be providentially permitting Americans to see how badly we’ve damaged the world rather than saved it. A whole lot of American Christians expected an iteration of The Beast to be the New Jerusalem and yet have been surprised that The Beast does what The Beast does.

  179. Jean says:

    A few observations about the US Supreme Court:

    The “wisdom” of the Supreme Court is not measured by the degree to which it agrees with a claim or petition of Donald Trump.

    Last night’s rejection of the TX election suit demonstrates the difference between what conservatism means, as evidenced by the Court’s decision, and what Trump has corrupted it to mean, which hundreds of federal and state GOP legislators have bought in to.

    The Supreme Court’s decision was more patriotic than anything Trump has ever done or imagined. All patriotic Americans ought to thank God that the Supreme Court kept their oath to defend the US Constitution.

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