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30 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    But Michael, the article is from the ‘leftwing’ media! 🙂

  2. Kevin H says:

    I’m glad the NYT times reported on this story in the manner in which they did. It is not often that mainstream media does so in a manner which challenges narratives from the left.

    Even as I believe BD overstates the degree of danger from the left, I do think this type of thing has become increasingly prevalent in academia and other realms of our culture. Right wing media reports on such stories quite often. The difficulty is sorting out all the truth from error, the hyperbole from the hard facts from both sides of the media. It makes it quite difficult to determine how bad things actually are when both sides regularly employ exaggeration, misrepresentation and complicity to their favored side.

  3. Linn says:

    Kevin H-I work at a private elementary school, fairly elite, where all things woke are now in vogue. We are trying to educate our students about people they have no contact with except as housekeepers/cleaners, nannies, gardeners or famous athletes/rappers. We talk about privilege, but the kids have no idea how the “unprivileged” lived. Having grown up and lived on the other side as a white girl/teacher (a whole story in itself), I often wonder if we are helping, or just making them feel better about what they have and sorry for everyone else. That point of view doesn’t get anyone very far. I still work “the other side” as a church volunteer, and live close to the neighborhood so I can be available. COVID has changed some of that, obviously, but there is Facebook and texting to keep in touch. If we just deal with the obvious (don’t use the N word. stop saying that Asians are responsible for COVID, not all undocumented immigrants are dangerous), we might make more headway vs. micro-managing every so-called micro-aggression.

  4. Kevin H says:

    Linn,

    Yeah, the best is probably finding some kind of balance. Determining what that balance is, is easier said than done. However, both sides take things to extremes and they end up doing more harm than good. Real progress is to be found somewhere in the muddy middle where it is not all guilt and shame or presumed evil and there is honest effort to understand various experiences and perspectives.

  5. Linn says:

    Kevin,

    I couldn’t agree more. I grew up in 1/2 African-American neighborhood during the height of Black Is Beautiful and Black Power, so I always have a different perspective. I always think if we just began at our common humanity, and really followed the Golden Rule, that we might get much farther. Occasionally I run into someone who is hostile just because i’m white, and we start talking…it’s amazing what 5 minutes of conversation can do to make the other person seem “human.”

    My biggest concern, though, is how we treat each other in the church. That is the one place where color, socio-economic background, family origin should have no influence on how we accept each other. It’s the comments like-why don’t they go to that church instead of staying at ours? That’s where their people are. It makes me want to bow my head and weep.

  6. JD says:

    Years ago, I sang as a solo guest musician doing an original song at a black co-worker’s church in South Central Los Angeles. We were treated better than at our own home church. They simply loved and accepted us more.
    I was amazed that after all the uplifting introductions of the musicians and announcements, including the uniformed white-gloved usherettes doing signing building up to the message, the visiting pastor proceeded to sing the entire sermon for about 45 minutes. I was completely blown away at the elaborate presentation and respect for the presence of God in their modest facility; and also grateful that we didn’t get literally blown away in the streets outside on the way there and on the way home that night.

  7. Mike E. says:

    I think a lot of black Americans are very sensitive to any appearance of racism, and understandably so. We white folk simply don’t understand what it’s like to be black. We have never experienced what black Americans experience. And if we really don’t know many black folks, we never really enter into that space.

    I think it’s understandable to be concerned about people making false accusations. But again, we have to think in terms of the oppressed people, not our own experience.

    I personally believe white supremacy is much more of a danger to our society that wokeness.

  8. Linn says:

    Mike E.-I definitely think white supremacy is more dangerous than wokeness, especially after when we are commemorating the death of Ahmed Aubry just a year ago this month. But, I also know that people get really defensive when they are accused of something they don’t even know they did or would deny they ever did. I’d like to see more kind, patient people than woke-people who model acceptance and concern for others, even if they don’t agree with them. We descend rapidly to the lowest common denominator (the yelling, the Twitter posts, the Facebook videos, the “cancel culture”) without really understanding each other.

  9. Everstudy says:

    I think this is more the problem: “The story highlights the tensions between a student’s deeply felt sense of personal truth and facts that are at odds with it.”

    Personal truth vs facts?

    As someone I enjoy reading said today “Here’s another way to read that sentence: “Somebody lied, but that person has the proper identity, and thus we must characterize her lies as a ‘sense of personal truth.'” The narrative is important, say the media. Thus, we must characterize overt lies that ruin lives as a “sense of personal truth.” But in reality, there is no “personal truth.” There is only the truth, and your opinion — or in this case, your overt lies.”

  10. Babylon's Dread says:

    Racism: it has come to be assumed. The question is not if racism has occurred…The question is how has racism occurred here… Racism is called America’s original sin… in the idea of original sin is the corresponding idea of universal guilt. The stain however cannot be removed. It calls for renunciation of one’s very existence. We have a tale of guilt without savior or salvation. There is only everlasting damnation. How much suffering will be required? How much reparation will assuage the offended?

    When categories of religious faith are engaged God is necessitated, but in this God is not sought or called upon. Wherein is our salvation? Alas there is none. We are filling bowls of wrath and they will spill.

  11. DH says:

    I think wokeness may be the new white supremacy. Time will tell.

  12. Babylon's Dread says:

    Jeffrey Salkin is a peach “By all accounts, Limbaugh was a contemptible human being.”

    Apparently he has vast knowledge of the accounts.

    Talent on Loan Dread

  13. The New Victor says:

    The article points to other incidents that indicate snowflakeness among youth, searching for victimhood sand obvious oppressors.

    My friend’s white daughter, 5th grade, made in remote class what she thought was an innocuous comment after another girl said she’d never seen Star Wars. The offensive comment? “You’ve never seen star wars? Your parents didn’t raise you right.”

    The rest of the class fanned all over the offended girl and validated that her parents did in fact raise her right. These were mostly white kids in a rural community.

    About 10 years ago, my buddy was a Manger at the Indian casino. There was an incident where a player was reported for keeping two slots, against the rules. She pulled the race card, “you’re only doing this because I’m Asian!” My buddy thought, “I’m 1/4 Mexican, the security guy there is Asian, another involved was half black, and the complainant was a woman.” His VP demanded he write a letter of apology for being racist, but he refused because they were enforcing casino (Indian casino) policy, And he did nothing wrong. The VP fired him. The veep was later fired and he returned Over a year later as head of security, approved by tribal leadership.

  14. Mike E. says:

    BD-The problem with the “original sin” of slavery is that the white supremacy that created it has never stopped. Has it? On an unrelated note (?) Anyone seen the Trump “Golden Calf” yet? God have mercy on us all.

  15. Mike E. says:

    Linn–I agree with you. There has to be a civility in communicating with people. But I’m sure I’d find it hard to be civil with white supremacists if I were black. Just sayin.’

  16. Babylon's Dread says:

    I read Hannah Anderson looking for the answer to the titled assertion of How Purity Culture Failed a Generation – it was worthwhile, and relatively interesting and predictable but when I finished I had to look again at the clickbait title. Meh, it wasn’t answered in any unique way. It basically says that the sons of Adam, the sons of Abraham, and the sons of God all fail to live out sexual purity. George Barna has told us such things and we have had a spate of books and articles panning every attempt to curb the appetite of human concupiscence – does anyone remember Bill Gothard’s development of that theme?

    Anyway Hannah wants us to keep at it with the full awareness that her attempts will prove as futile as those she laments.

    She ends with word of forgiveness and grace which is the place this leads. We preach not ourselves, (purity culture) but Christ and him crucified.

    Only new creation can manage our sexual rapacity, nothing avails but life in the Holy Spirit. Only in the Spirit is the human nature subsumed into order. Even so come…

  17. Babylon's Dread says:

    Mike E

    If what you mean is that to be white is to be white supremacist — which is claimed repeatedly in today’s literature … my point is; that accusation is going to bear unspeakably bad fruit. That is the language of vengeance not the language of redemption and new creation. The body of Christ has no partnership with vengeance. Though I hear the spirit of it applauded loudly.

  18. Em says:

    Keep postin Pastor Dread, keep postin……n 🙏

  19. filbertz says:

    The racial/racist “debate” (one-sided though it may be) is inherently prejudicial and stereotypical because it reduces a broad range of people into one lump. Many whites are unhappy with that characterization and chafe at its implications.

    Now we are beginning to empathize with minorities. It can be a stepping stone to understanding and ‘feeling with’ what ‘they’ have felt for so long–that regardless of my achievement, education, effort, & fidelity I am lumped into one category.

  20. filbertz says:

    Of course, “we” is a reference to the predominant make up of the PP poster-ship & I am aware that I am assuming some things there…

  21. Babylon’s Dread says:

    Empathy has virtue but it is the gateway to hell in American public policy. Empathy belongs in human relations. It collapses into tyranny in law.

  22. Michael says:

    https://www.christiancentury.org/article/how-my-mind-has-changed/i-m-philosopher-we-can-t-think-our-way-out-mess

    “Needless to say, I’ve abandoned all hope that we can think our way out of the mess we’ve made of the world. The pathology that besets us in this cultural moment is a failure of imagination, specifically the failure to imagine the other as neighbor. Empathy is ultimately a feat of the imagination, and arguments are no therapy for a failed, shriveled imagination. It will be the arts that resuscitate the imagination.”

  23. bob1 says:

    Empathy has virtue but it is the gateway to hell in American public policy. Empathy belongs in human relations. It collapses into tyranny in law.

    That’s bats. Empathy is one trait that keeps us from becoming unloving, selfish animals.

    To equate law with tyranny opens the door for post-modernist fascism, Randian hell-on-earth and worse. It was the world’s authority on authoritarianism and
    totalitarianism, Timothy Snyder, who said, “Postmodern is prefascist.”

    You apparently aren’t aware of Xn ethicists like the two Niebuhrs, David Gushee, etc. and many more. It’s all about ways to act more Christlike. That isn’t about transactions. It’s about a change of heart and a redeemed way of looking at all things.

  24. Babylon’s Dread says:

    Bob1

    Cleary you did not read it correctly. I did not reject empathy just the attempt to legislate it which IS fascism.

    Further all my arguments are rooted in new creation which is the heart.

  25. Mike E. says:

    BD..thanks for allowing me to clarify “If what you mean is that to be white is to be white supremacist” That is certainly not what I mean. What I mean is that white supremacy has existed in this country since its founding; blacks have been an oppressed people by white supremacists. Unfortunately, the white supremacist thinking has permeated our society to the point the rule of law has been used to further oppress them as a people. Jim Crow laws etc. A lot of good white people died to ensure they could be free. So no, there are white people and there are white supremacists. I make a distinction. I might add I’m coming to the conclusion that white supremacy is at the root of much of our division, and it has been used skillfully by foreign entities to stoke that division.

  26. Babylon's Dread says:

    Mike E

    Straight out of the 1619 project and the 13th propaganda video… caricaturing your way to a point. Just realize that the stain of whiteness is on you and there is no redemption.

  27. Duane Arnold says:

    When comment and explanation are characterized as caricature and propaganda, discussion ends. That’s unfortunate…

  28. Muff Potter says:

    If anyone would like to see an uplifting movie that speaks to the human spirit apart from race ideology be it from the left or the right, I would suggest Hidden Figures.
    I especially loved the scene where Kevin Costner demolishes the ‘colored ladies room’ sign at a NASA facility.

  29. Mike E. says:

    Wow, BD. I’m glad I didn’t see your comment until now. Wish I wouldn’t have seen it at all. I’ve never seen the 1619 project and never even heard of the video you referenced. Oh there is redemption, BD. I am redeemed.

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