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45 Responses

  1. Babylon’s Dread says:

    We have descended into hell

  2. Robert Diamond says:

    The Satan and Demons video, what was that? Yikes. More spiritual manure being spread if you ask me.

  3. Michael says:

    R. Diamond,
    A good comment would include some critique of at least minimal substance.
    That was not a good comment.

  4. Michael says:

    BD,
    What prompted that?

  5. Babylon’s Dread says:

    Reading 4 or 5 articles is enough to persuade. The explosion of rage that is coming from the stress in our culture transitions will make the capitol riot look like Dr Seuss.

  6. bob1 says:

    I skimmed some of the web site about Brooklyn Gospel Tab. Specifically, the article about its “DNA.”

    Good grief — talk about guilt by association!

    Kinda like saying, “Look at all the sordid individuals who’ve used our local library. By extension, everyone who’s ever used it is suspect.”

    Kinda sad that whoever did this is so “black and white” with their associations and makes a lot of inferences.

    It really tarnishes my ability (and I doubt I’m the only one) to take them seriously.

  7. bob1 says:

    I don’t see that these links are much different from the usual ones.

    IMHO, links are like journalism, and journalism is interested in the unusual– “man bites dog.”

    I found some of them funny, like the pastor who wants the women in his congo to look hotter. What
    a hoot!

    It helps not to take everything ultra seriously. and make generalizations.

    Like Freud once said, “A cigar is often just a cigar.”

    🙂

  8. Robert Diamond says:

    A good comment would include some critique of at least minimal substance.

    I believed it talked about a divine council in heaven. I do not think that the Lord God Almighty needs any help making decisions, especially when this so called divine council is partly made up of evil angels. (Is that better?) 🙂

  9. bob1 says:

    This may be a factor in why so many are believing the Big Lie, QAnon, etc.

    “Left-leaning and centrist news publications get fewer clicks on Facebook if they publish false stories. But far-right publications experience the opposite, nabbing nearly twice as much Facebook engagement on stories classified as misinformation.”

    “The researchers at the Cybersecurity for Democracy project at New York University found that not only are far-right publications unique in that they are seemingly rewarded for posting faulty information, they are receiving by far the most engagement compared to slightly right, center, slightly left, and far-left publications in general.”

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/970013/farright-misinformation-gets-by-far-most-engagement-facebook-study-finds

  10. Michael says:

    Robert Diamond,
    Nothing was said about advising God.
    It was simply an imaginative reference to the angelic host.
    I thought it was an excellent video.
    Still do…

  11. Linn says:

    Luis Palau-I will miss him! He has always been a humble servant of God, so different from most of what we see today. I had the opportunity of hearing him preach in person in the 80s and 90s, and I was always impressed by the way he carefully and kindly communicated the gospel (in both Spanish and English).

  12. Robert Diamond says:

    Nothing was said about advising God.

    Video time from 3:12 – 3:24.

    Statement: the heavenly staff team, the divine council.

    There is a modern teaching out there about the Nephilim returning in our time and the term divine council in used in this teaching with evil spirits as part of it.

    You are correct nothing specifically said anything about advising God, but in the term divine council it is implied and the modern teaching of a divine council includes evil spirits. I am just a little wary when I hear or see the term divine council because of the false teaching about it in today’s prophecy circles.

  13. bob1 says:

    I was also sad to hear about Mr. Palau. It certainly appears he’s had a long, fruitful life.

    I heard him do outreach in the 70s at the large university I attended.

    Never any scandal. Also true of many other public Xn figures from that era, like Billy Graham, John Stott, etc.

  14. The New Victor says:

    Gay couples adopting? *sigh* i guess “go along to get along.”

    I personally think that single parent adoption in most cases should be illegal, but that’s colored by my experience, being adopted by a first wave feminist in 1974. It was controversial, and also due to being an interracial adoption as well, as attitudes were starting to shift towards not letting white people adopt Indians, as my birth mother was, born on The Rez. I felt I was kind of an experiment, in a way, my mother’s fight against the system. In retrospect, of someone can’t form a healthy relationship with the opposite gender, then a child should not become a proxy avatar. It opens the door for Parentification and possible emotional incest, to replace an absent spouse.

    Are two parents better than one? Likely. Yet same sex relationships between females exhibit the highest rates of domestic violence (and same sex male raising relationships the lowest).

    What’s best for children? Is the traditional orthodox Christian view even relevant in modern society? It seems less and less, according to Barna polling among Christians and we already know the answer among non Christians. Given the changes in the last decade, this all might seem a quaint historical bigoted attitude a decade hence.

  15. Babylon’s Dread says:

    Victor

    That was thunder lightning and an earthquake

  16. Em says:

    Pastor Dread @ 5:40
    AMEN ! ! !

  17. Jean says:

    Faithful pastors face a very difficult future. Our society current is very anecdote driven (and we see it on this blog regularly). I heard from so and so this or that. The people around here say this or that about such and such. I’ve experienced this or that. I have a family member who experienced this or that. Then we extrapolate from our anecdotes and formulate a truth or universal experience.

    So in a decent sized congregation, members will most likely have anecdotes about the experience of growing up in a single parent home, or an abusive home with a mother and father, or a same sex couple home, or a blended family, etc.. Those may be direct anecdotes or they may be relatives or neighbors. The members will feel that their anecdotes are valid and more or less representative of truth or at least a large segment of society, and they will expect to have their experiences validated by others.

    Bear in mind, that you can find people who will say, “Adam and Steve are the best parents ever,” whereas others will say, “Jim and Bonnie are the worst parents ever.” We shouldn’t develop doctrine through anecdotes, but according to what God has ordained and revealed to us in the Bible.

    So, a faithful pastor is in a very difficult situation. My question is: How can he preach God’s order for families without crushing a number of his members? How can he lift up the abused and the victims? How can he stand up to the impenitent? Is he willing to lose members as a consequence of being faithful to God’s Word?

    I think reforming the church should be first and foremost on the minds of theologians. Most of the church has allowed secular sexual morality so far into the church, that I think it will be gut wrenching to reform many churches. However, the family as God has ordained it is worth fighting for and the family is the cornerstone of the other orders that God has ordained in creation.

    To be clear, I am not talking about focusing on the pagan, but the church and its members.

  18. UnCCed says:

    Serious question.
    With all we know that’s occurred within the church in our time, and most likely will continue to occur,
    Why don’t we be honest with non & new believers about this? I feel like I’m part of a giant bait & switch trick. Say only the good things to get them in, then…
    It’s ironic the Parable of the tares & wheat is so small, rarely taught, and yet should be tattooed on new believers.

  19. Michael says:

    I’ve said this for twenty years, but I’ll say it again.
    In the eyes of many, the church has forfeited its moral authority to speak on anything.
    The culture no longer cares what we think, except it will try to crush us for traditional views.

    We have always been unwilling to address our own family destroying values and recently embraced a thrice married megalomaniac as our champion.

    That’s the real problem.

    Deal with it…if it’s not too late.

  20. Nathan Priddis says:

    Robert Diamond.
    I’m not a fan of Mackie/Bible Project, but feel the need to defend him/them. It hardly is manure. And he/they are in good standing in the Church, located well within bounds of orthodoxy. I’m aware of no scandal or ill repute.

    What is happening in prophetic circles, I’ve lost track. It’s to ludacris and chaotic to easily follow. But the idea that ( at least some ) of the Sons of God, oppose God, has been in writing for over 2000 years, at least. And this is without pointing to Hewbrew Scripture.

    What the Bible Project is doing, is pointing out scripture we have avoided, including evil angels working for God.

    God clearly spoke that his evil angels, brought the Children of Israel out of Egypt. They all work for him. They are his ministers of fire.

    Mackie should not be blamed for pointing out what is obvious, though disturbing.

  21. Linnea says:

    “We have descended into hell”

    I’ll say. Girls whose gender has been stolen and they can’t run a fair race or pee in their own bathroom. Children being raised by people who define themselves by how they like to have sex. People who are eternally offended despite the intent or expressed remorse. Redemption has never been more appealing, but we have a bunch of weary harvesters.

  22. Duane Arnold says:

    Jean

    I agree with you that anecdotes do not make for good theology. They do, however, create a cognitive dissonance for some. I will use myself as an example. Although it has become “normal” among Episcopalians to allow Gay marriage, as a priest I cannot do so as a matter of conscience. On the other hand, I have Gay friends. Two of these friends have been a couple for over 30 years. Now, they are beyond the time to consider adoption but another two friends are younger and may consider the prospect. Would I endorse such a decision? With my view of marriage, I doubt it…

    In yet another circumstance, at my age most of the couples we know have been through at least single if not multiple divorces. One learns to say little or, as I say to my wife, “Be nice to the second (or third) husband (or wife) if you want to remain friends”.

    This is not even to speak of the majority of couples who live together before marriage.

    All this is to say, we lack a consistent ethic when it comes to such matters…

  23. Em says:

    Question regarding preaching God’s order for families?
    Should begin when children are small and continue.
    We know full well that unbelievers will peel off and follow destructive pursuits… Pray for their repentance – pray and keep on keeping on…… 🙏

  24. Michael says:

    The sexual identity and ethics issues will take generations to reverse, if ever.
    The culture has embraced it all and will abide no correction.
    The church has largely lost the last two generations of young people, so any reversal will take more generations to come.
    Until the church comes out as a separate people with distinct and demonstrated ethics for at least two generations, this battle is over.
    In reality, all these culture wars are over…we lost…I hate to say “we” because I’ve never been a culture warrior except in the church…I lost too.

  25. Michael says:

    Linnea,

    Carl Trueman addresses that issue in the link “a new pastoral problem”.

  26. Michael says:

    Em,

    I can only speak for how I’ve helped raise my godson.
    I have cautioned him to be as skeptical of the church as the culture…I’ve forbidden anyone to take him to evangelical gatherings for years unless I know the pastor personally.
    His spiritual and ethical education have come from the home alone as much as we could manage it.

  27. Jean says:

    One of the problems with the way some of the church views sexual morality is it asks (1) What will the congregation do or say? (2) How will our teaching impact evangelism? (3) How will it impact membership retention? (4) Are we loving, inviting and reaching out?

    But this is evidence of arrogance and a lack of faith. When if the church just taught and preached biblical morality? When if the church planted (the Gospel) and watered (with the Word of God) and allowed God to give the growth? Do pastors and churches trust God and HIs Word? Are pastors and churches willing to be faithful to God’s Word and promises, regardless of what the short term consequences might be or what the consultants or other church growth gurus may advise?

  28. Michael says:

    Jean,

    Most evangelical churches preach a traditional sexual ethic.
    Unfortunately, many don’t live it and the sheer number of scandals and the way they were addressed have destroyed the moral authority of the group.

  29. Jean says:

    Michael,

    It’s one thing to preach against homosexuality; it’s quite another to preach against no fault divorce; against living together; against pre-marital sex; against women teaching or exercising authority over a man in church. There’s a whole lot that goes into Christian sexual morality. I wonder how many of the top 25 evangelical churches in the US teach consistently in accordance with the Bible on these topics?

  30. Michael says:

    Jean,
    I’d have to look at the list but I would think most of them do on off election years…

  31. Duane Arnold says:

    Jean

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we have struck a Faustian bargain in being functionaries of the state when it comes to marriage. Also, when we can’t seem to even get our arms around things like the sermon on the mount without making excuses, sexual ethics might be a hard sell…

  32. Em says:

    We don’t “sell” the Faith, but we darn better live it! ! !
    Don’t want to hear, “depart from Me; I never knew you” when this journey ends – it will

  33. CM says:

    Duane,

    For centuries, the state was not involved in marriages. It was between the families, their friends and neighbors and whatever religious officials performed the rites (this is across cultures). This was true here in the US until the past 150-200 years or so. Marriage licenses submitted to the county or city records office is fairly new.

    Granted the purpose might have be noble (prevent bigamy or whatever) or less than noble (a revenue source for the local government) but the fact is this amalgam of church and state would ultimately cause problems.

    Because what the state says who is to be married and whatever tax benefits are to be obtained from it is really irrelevant to what the church or other religious institution says it is.

    As you said it was a Faustian bargain and same-sex marriage is when then bill came due. It would have been better if the religious communities had never let the state get involved in the first place. And likewise for the state as well.

  34. bob1 says:

    Trickle down economics only benefits the rich.

    Trickle up? Seems to help a great deal. We’ll see more cities do this, I predict.

    A city gave people $500 a month, no strings attached, to fight poverty. It paid off, study says.

    Residents of Stockton, Calif., who received $500 a month from a first-of-its-kind guaranteed-income program were more likely to find full-time jobs, be happy and stay healthy, according to a year-long study published Wednesday.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/03/stockton-universal-basic-income/

  35. The New Victor says:

    Interesting news from Stockton. Finland’s results were mixed, but that might be apples and oranges. Stockton’s community College also has vocational certificate programs in automotive, HVAC, Microscopy (the only under grad program in the nation for this), Radiology, Nursing, and a criminal justice academy. There is a lot to take advantage of there for still relatively cheap. A married couple, working class Israelis, friends of mine, went through two of the programs. He, HVAC, and later got a job with the city. She, microscopy, then she later obtained a BS in geology from UOP, the private university down the street (then her MA and teaching credential), and has been a high school science teacher in the city for over 20 years. They both did this at about 30 years of age.

  36. Babylon's Dread says:

    “Because of the Biden administration’s transgender policies, some girls will be subject to voyeurism and assault in the very place where they should be guaranteed privacy and safety. Some female prisoners will be raped by men pretending to be women in a place where the state has confined them. Tragedies will flow from this. Of that there can be no doubt.”

    This is what you voted for it was in his platform

  37. Babylon's Dread says:

    CRT – I am pretty sure that CT is essentially all in. “Critical race theorist Kenneth Nunn’s words haunt me. As I struggle to process the murders of Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd as well as the glaring racial disparities in COVI]]D-19 cases, …”

    So a Christian magazine posts articles that begin with claims of killings as murders bypassing the whole matter of jurisprudence and assumption of innocence… This is Nathan Cartagena in a linked article…

  38. bob1 says:

    I believe they’ll work this out…no need to get your undies in a bundle.

    Thing is, politics is about give and take. You’ll never get a “pure” candidate.

    But some are better than others.

    And…voyeurism? How ironic. Ex-president Dumpster Dive went to teenage pageants and walked through their dressing rooms when they were in various states of undress. What a great example.

    And there’s plenty more of morally objectionable acts toward women. Plenty.

  39. Babylon's Dread says:

    “In fact, the U.S. birth rate is currently well below what’s known as the “replacement level””

  40. Babylon's Dread says:

    NAR (David French) and his seven mountain critique… was a benign set of church growth observations in the late 90s … C Peter Wagner took it further as he aged. That accusation has never adequately described my world or closest circle… but Wallnau and Bill Johnson have been in and around us.

    I suspect some division must take place on the matter because it is time we got busy with clear expressions of discontinuity.

  41. Nathan Priddis says:

    BD. The number of Apostles must be enormous by now. It’s inevitable a shake up occur, particularly given the International nature of apostolic networks.

  42. JimmieT says:

    B D “This is what you voted for it was in his platform” Indeed!

  43. Duane Arnold says:

    BD

    “This is what you voted for it was in his platform”

    Funny, I see none of this in the Executive Order https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/

    I do however see that the Executive Order follows the recent ruling of a very conservative US Supreme Court who have ruled on this as a matter of law… I might not agree with either, but I think it is important to be truthful about what has been done and why.

  44. Nathan Priddis says:

    The link to the Administration’s section discrimination policy seems to be consistent with Scripture.

    ..”And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;…”..

    Paul assumes the unbeliever will continue in what is natural: …”..That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God…”…

    This admonition regarding fornication was for the the church of the Thessalonians. The unbelieving gentiles are free to live as they see fit.

  45. bob1 says:

    Yeah, right now when it comes to discerning facts and truth from disinformation, cherry picking the fascts and innuendo —

    BE A BEREAN!

    The life you save may be your own…

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