Linkathon!

You may also like...

70 Responses

  1. Em says:

    oikonomia – in principle it sounds like a simple matter of grace in action, but in practice representing Christ on that level of shepherding takes more than a conscientious attempt to match a job description – while not age dependent, it does require a God-fearing level of spiritual maturity IMHO

  2. Michael says:

    Em,

    You’re absolutely right.
    Fascinating concept though…

  3. OCDan says:

    Michael,

    I see it is bang on Franklin G. time again. LOL!

    It’s ok. Just being sarcastic.

    That salary is a joke and seriously hypocritical. Oh well, I am not in his demographic since I stopped giving, even to Samaritan’s purse long ago. Now, if he would just stop sending me all the newsletters and Christmas catalogs to buy water wells.

    How about this Franklin, this year you take 10K of that salary and build a home and well for someone in my name, but no one has to know it is me. In other words, stop bothering me with junk mail and spend some of your own salary.

    Yeah, I am disgusted. Maybe I am just getting more and more jaded, esp. by all these megachurch, megaparachurch ministries. The more I read and study the Bible, the less I see of these type of ministries by Jesus and Paul. Full disclosure, I went this past Sunday to the grand opening of the new Harvest church in Orange County and I am so past all the fluff, although Greg Laurie did explain the Gospel very well.

  4. Michael says:

    I confess…I’m not a fan of Franklin…haven’t been for a long time.

    What did you think of the grand opening?

  5. Ixtlan says:

    I would like someone to knock on Xenia’s door and ask her to engage in the article on oikonomia and the article the Monk linked to in American Conservative. I find this fascinating as it helps identify why Western culture thinks the way that It does and the value systems that has been constructed as a result of that thought. The author here is bucking the system, and I don’t know if he is right, but I find his observations such that I want to dig into this more.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/byzantine-empire-or-republic/

  6. covered says:

    While in Iraq last year, I was in good company as Franklin was there as well in the same city. The big difference was that I was staying at the $85 a night hotel and he was at the $450 a night hotel. For some reason, it really bothered me thinking that many supporters probably don’t realize where a lot of their dollars are going when that check is written to Sam’s Purse. I need to add that I know for a fact that they do good work but FG should be a better example.

  7. OCDan says:

    Michael,

    The sermon was and excellent oration of the Gospel.

    The building, well it is still a work in progress and it is and is in one of those business parky-type of things. Very antiseptic, wouldn’t even know there is a church there. Also, seems very cramped, although it may just be because so many came out for the opening.

    We’ll see, however. I am not into all the bells and whistles anymore, as I wrote above, so I am not the best critic. It seems like they just swapped buildings, but I guess they own this one, so that is better.

    My feeling, just send another pastor out and start another congregation, not another building fund.

  8. Nonnie says:

    I appreciate the article on women in ministry.
    Since social media came to light, I have been shocked by the way women are treated in some churches. Every pastor I have sat under has affirmed me in the gifts God has given me and I am thankful for them.

  9. Em says:

    i suspect that an organization such as Samaritan’s Purse has a two-tiered level… the big wheels-so-called who deal with governments on the top level doing politics and appearances and the workers in the trenches on missions – many volunteers on their own tab… is this right? it is unseemly in the grand scheme, but God uses what He’s got, perhaps…
    will the big wheels of Christian organizations get the top seats at the head table at THE wedding banquet? i suspect i may get to sit next to the likes of Franklin – that means he’ll be seated just inside the tent flap or maybe in a quiet corner where we’ll be able to talk 🙂
    anyone want to join us back there? 🙂

  10. Kevin H says:

    Covered,

    I have always liked what Samaritan’s Purse does and regularly support them at Christmas time along with occasionally at other times. The one thing that has made me cringe for years now, however, is Graham’s compensation. Everything else I know about the organization appears to be good so I don’t wait for the perfect organization to come along to donate to. Of course, the opposite situation would be what is happening with Gospel for Asia. I would hope nothing like that ever happens with Samaritan’s Purse.

  11. EricL says:

    After reading OC Dan’s post about Harvest starting an official Orange County campus, I had to go to their website. Two things jumped out at me:
    1. The website banner is not “Harvest Christian Fellowship”, the church’s name. Instead, they are “Harvest: Greg Laurie”. This wasn’t his crusade site; it’s the church. I guess it could be worse: Greg Laurie Christian Fellowship, Greg Church, etc. Talk about being a one-man show…
    2. They are advertising a special guest speaker for Sunday: Skippy Heitzig. Maybe Michael can watch it online 🙂

  12. Kevin H says:

    Yesterday, I posted on Facebook the story about Graham’s compensation. Ended up debating a friend who didn’t see eye-to-eye with me as it being a problem. He thought it was wrong to point fingers at something we can’t make a judgment call as being wrong. I, of course, think it’s definitively wrong that Graham collects so much compensation from his ministries. I ended up co-opting a quote from John Piper on the subject when he was asked how much pay is too much pay for a pastor. He responded by saying: “The impossibility of drawing a line between night and day doesn’t mean you can’t know it’s midnight.” I believe Graham is a midnight case.

  13. Michael says:

    EricL,

    I’ll have to miss that… 🙂

  14. Anne says:

    Franklin Graham, and many mega pastors makes more in one year than Bernie Sanders’ entire net worth -$400,00. I can see why Christian’s might admire Trump – he’s rich, a celebrity and speaks his mind, like too many of their “pastors”.

    After I got to be behind the curtain of one mega movement, serving wholeheartedly etc, I was more than disillusioned. Having the opportunity to be getting behind the curtain of Sander’s political campaign, I am more encouraged about more things than I have been in a long time. He, and those I’ve had the chance to meet from the local to national level in his campaign exemplify values of working for those who are the “least of these” in our country, more profoundly than I thought imaginable.

    So I support him 100% in securing one of the most important jobs in the secular part of our nation’s life. Just like I support Michael’s doing what I believe is one of the most important jobs needed now in the life of the church. With that, I will keep my politics and secular activities on my own page and try to chime in here only when I have comments about the church and faith.

    I may need help keeping my promise 🙂

  15. Anne says:

    Besides, as you all may have noticed over the years, my heart has a huge soft spot for underdogs and dark horses. Especially those that plug away over many years, against the odds and still bring about changes, great & small.

  16. Michael says:

    Anne,

    Just don’t exhaust yourself…we have a year and a half to go… 🙂
    I’m going to allow some political comment here, though I will try to abstain myself.

  17. Josh the Baptist says:

    Franklin Graham is not a pastor. He is CEO of two large non-profit orgs. He works super-hard and is compensated well for it. Too much? In my opinion, I’d say yes, but those other non-profit CEO’s that the article pointed out as better make around $500,000 a year. That is in a stratosphere that I cannot relate to, so I’ll mind my business. For Franklin, nothing is secret. Donors, or anyone else, can find out his salary.

    Take the “faith” aspect away, and his job as head of those orgs is to raise money. I can’t think of anyone better. You replace him in either organization, and I think they are much worse off. He’s a hard-working man who is uniquely talented. He’s going to make a lot more money than most of us.

    Disclaimer : I’ve never been crazy about Franklin, disagree with much of what he says, and have thought he used his father’s good name in inappropriate ways. However, the pay issue is OK.

  18. Em says:

    i admire Anne’s persistence in participating in what her heart tells her are just causes… it is sad that some things that start out as just and right do go downhill and it is no disgrace to bail out when that happens … IMNSHO

  19. covered says:

    Kevin H, as a pastor who is very mission minded, we will now only be involved with Operation Christmas Child. I can’t think of another way to be a part of a very important work without making FG’s wallet fatter.

    It’s not unusual for a mission organization to take up to 10% off the top for admin expenses etc. but when the top guy makes 20 times more than the people giving, a line must be drawn.

  20. Anne says:

    Josh, I’m not a big fan of corporate leaders making big bucks on the backs of their workers and consumers either 😉

  21. Michael says:

    It is interesting that Trump is leading among evangelicals.
    He’s been married three times.
    He “leaves the door open” for federally funded abortions.
    He’s misogynistic and crude.
    He boasts that he has never asked God to forgive him.

    It’s all about immigration… or rather, immigration as it’s framed by Trump.

  22. Kevin H says:

    Josh,

    I’m okay with Graham making more than the average man for what he does. But when he’s taking in almost a million dollars a year, then I think there is a definite problem. In cases like this, I don’t think we should compare to what “others” are making, rather judge by what we think is fair to get paid for working in “ministry”. (And even if we compare to others, Graham is seemingly even near the very top of non-profit leaders.) Yes, he’s not a pastor, but being a parachurch ministry leader I believe should carry a lot of the same qualifications and accountabilities as a pastor. And so most of us would not be comfortable at all with a pastor making a million dollars a year, I think we should be the same with a ministry leader. Money is given to his organizations, largely by people who make a pittance compared to Graham. Sometimes that money is given in a very sacrificial manner, and it is given with the purpose to spread the gospel and to help the poor and needy. When an executive then takes such a large chunk of change that is far, far more than he would ever need to live a comfortable life, then I believe we have a problem.

  23. Kevin H says:

    Michael,

    I don’t think it’s all about immigration with Trump, although that may be one of the top driving factors. I think many political conservatives (Christians and others) are tired of political correctness and are taken by Trump because he is not willing to kowtow to any of it.

    That being said, I expressed my opinion on Trump yesterday and believe him to be a horrible human being and could never vote for him.

  24. Michael says:

    Kevin H,

    It simply amazes me what kind of candidates are supported by those who claim fidelity to Christian principles before all others.
    I’ve probably said too much already… 🙂

  25. Kevin H says:

    It amazes me, too. Both sides of the aisle. (Not taking digs at anyone here.)

  26. Josh the Baptist says:

    I don’t think that immigration has been a big deal for Trump at all. I think it boils down to 2 things – He is famous, and he speaks his mind.

    I still think in the end, he will not get the Republican nomination, and will not make a significant splash with a 3rd party. Peopl can talk it up now, but in the end they will not want Trump as president.

  27. Nonnie says:

    How can people place the trust of the highest office in the country into the hands of a man that has repeatedly filed for bankruptcy and failed businesses, as well as marriages? He’s a mess.

  28. j2theperson says:

    Looks like Tullian is just another attention-seeking fame whore who has no respect for the position of a pastor. Yeesh. Get your self and your family in order before you even contemplate returning to the limelight. His behaviour and apparent self-absorption are pretty ridiculous.

  29. Xenia says:

    I’m not at all qualified to comment on the accuracy of Deacon Patrick’s article on the Byzantine government except to say it sounds right to me, based a few things I have read.

    Oikonomia (or “economia”) is something I (and all Orthodox Christians) have experienced first hand. Orthodoxy has a lot of rules: fasting rules, marriage rules…. books full of rules (canons). They represent the ideal but if they were all enforced they would crush us all under their weight. So like a wise doctor who knows what each patient needs, the priest has some flexibility. This is called economia.

    One example was the case of my husband who wanted to convert to Orthodoxy but didn’t want to be baptized again, as this particular parish required. He’d already been baptized by the Catholics and the Protestants and said Enough! So out of love for my husband and realizing a third baptism was a stumbling block, that priest made an exception for my husband who was received by Chrismation (anointing with oil) instead. That’s the only time I ever saw this happen at that parish. Reception by baptism is still the rule. It probably would have been better if he had accepted their baptism because of the wonderful prayers and blessings attached to that ceremony but they did what they felt was best for my husband. The rules were relaxed out of love.

    I have an ailment that makes it difficult for me to keep long fasts without getting sick so I have a blessing, an economia, to eat a few eggs during a fast. It would be better if could keep the fast strictly but my priest thought it would be too hard for me so I eat a few eggs and he always asks me if it helps. (It does.) This was done out of love for me as a person and trying to figure out what would be the best prescription to help me along my journey.

    As Fr. Ernesto wrote, a priest can’t give a blessing for an abortion or sexual immorality or anything serious. There are some rules which cannot be relaxed. And a priest must not disobey his bishop.

    Keeping fasts, etc. don’t save a person but they do help us keep our feet on the path.

  30. Reverina says:

    I wonder what I could accomplish serving in the church if I could get past 1Tim 2:12 and not limit my work due to my gender? I might even be able to get some Franklin perks. That female pastor article did not exegete the passages limiting a woman’s place in the church. Until she can, I’ll remain in the shadows.

  31. Tim - Doulos says:

    I don’t comment too much on political dealings (due to some pretty strong feelings), but I’ll say a couple of things about Trump.

    (1) I’m amazed he has the support among Christians that he does, for many of the reasons enumerated above. The only real explanation I can think of is that many folks are so disillusioned by the Republican Party that they’re grabbing on to anything outside.

    (2) On that last note, it would seem that Bernie Sanders & Donald Trump have that much in common. Sanders’ support is coming from the left who cannot abide by the establishment Democrats, just as Trump is getting it from the right.

    As to Sanders himself, I need to keep my mouth shut. Best to say that he’s at the opposite end of the spectrum from myself.

  32. Em says:

    #31 – hmmm… thinking, thinking…

    from what i have seen, Sanders calling is not to government office…

    ask yourself the question, “would you date Trump?” err, for the males, would you let your daughter do so?
    there are two men out there that i could answer the above with a resounding ‘yes’ – Cruz and Carson…
    course, that isn’t exactly the litmus test of Presidential qualifications, is it? 🙂

  33. Donner says:

    Tullian is a textbook narcissist in the mold of Mark Driscoll and Bob Coy.

    I can’t escape the conclusion that the Lord is cleaning house. Judgment begins with the house of God. Let God be true, and every man a liar. The Lord will not give His glory to another.

    Please note that I did NOT say that Tullian or Mark or Bob are not Christians, and in that sense not “deserving” of God’s grace and mercy based on the shed blood of Christ. I agree with Michael’s post in Things I Think — the grace that delivers confession, repentance and forgiveness.

  34. Anne says:

    Wondering Em why you say Sander’s calling not to govt office? He’s help govt offices since 1988? Were you just refering to the presidency? A lot of what I’m doing in campaigning involves understanding where others are coming from, just listening. So curious just what you meant. Thanks!

  35. Anne says:

    “he’s HELD” . My brain a bit fried today..can’t blame on autocorrect 🙂

  36. Em says:

    Anne, thank you for asking me that question… there are many who can lead in roles that are much more productive than that of President of the United States… i see Sanders as a very effective spokesperson, but – IMHO – what we need now is a man of Sander’s principles and Trump’s tenacity – that said, Sanders would be better than Trump, who is without any principles except winning (and his assessment of his success in that is a bit delusional)

    i don’t know if i can make sense either – another fried brain here today (unsolvable by me family crisis)

  37. Ixtlan says:

    Thanks Xenia.

    ” The rules were relaxed out of love.”

    That is an interesting concept in a church system that appears, at least to outsiders, as rather ritualistic with legalist leanings. Although one could argue the contrary from history among others sources. This is an interesting element in many respects, but it implies that a hard and firm adherence is not necessary but rather beneficial. It also is coincides with Mitchell’s description of painting Byzantine political structure that emphasized ” what mattered most was the good of the politeia, not the will of the people”.

    I thought Rev. Ernesto’s (I’m not Orthodox) take from this book was informative, although I would have also liked to have read his opinion on the book’s main points, particularly in the review on American Conservatism that claimed a revisionist approach to Byzantine history as tainted from a Western perspective.

    I will probably get a copy of Deacon Patrick’s book and I will buy it through “clicking on” the Amazon link at michaelnewnham.com, of course

  38. Jtk says:

    Could I ask again (with Tullian and other somewhat related topics), what percentage of churches would fire/urge-to-resign ministers who’ve fornicated or committed physical adultery?

  39. Michael says:

    Thanks, Ixtlan. 🙂

    JTK,

    Physical adultery means you’re gone in my book.

  40. Josh the Baptist says:

    JTK – 100% of the churches I’ve known in my life.

  41. Anne says:

    Em – I always enjoy reading what you write here and interacting with you!!
    I don’t usually like wikipedia as a resource, but it is the only one without a “campaign” slant I could find on short notice. For those who are not familiar with his resume, his tenacity may surprise you. He’s been on my radar for years, long before anyone could imagine he’d run president – after being begged by those who have followed him for years. Even those who may loathe and oppose him are wise to know their “enemy” 🙂 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

  42. Erunner says:

    The Graham name is almost sacred among many in the church. Billy faithfully preached the Gospel for decades and was always one of the most admired people in the world.

    As Franklin is Billy’s son it’s inconceivable to many that he would do anything that was not above board.

    The idea that you might place Franklin’s name in the same group as Paul and Jan Crouch, Benny Hinn, Tilton, and so many others is quite startling. Many believe those on the list are not members of the body of Christ. If that was the case what would they do with Franklin?

    All I can say is his salary is quite high.

  43. Ixtlan says:

    Jtk,

    The first three pastors I had couldn’t keep their fly zipped. The first eventually left on his own, the second stayed at that church for several more years and then took another pastorate, and the third was essentially removed by the board of deacons, and he eventually went back into pastoral ministry.

  44. Bob Sweat says:

    It appears Tullian is keeping his foot in the door to a return to the pulpit. He should let the door close and spend time receiving God’s grace. There is a real disconnect among many when it comes to God’s restorative grace. For Tullian, restoration to the pulpit should not even be on his mind. Restoration with his wife and children, extended family, church and others friends should be at the forefront. Then comes restoration with himself. What does that mean? David, in Psalm 51 lays it out. “Create in me a clean heart”, “Renew a right spirit in me”, “Restore to me the joy of my salvation.” We confuse forgiveness with restoration. Forgiveness is instantaneous. God washes our sin………we are clean. Restoration takes work. Some of you might disagree with what I’m about to say, but I grieved during my time of restoration. It was not God shaming me, but rather my understanding to depth of my sin, and the hurt that it created on those that I loved. David’s words again come to mind, “Cast me not away from your presence.”, Take not your Holy Spirit from me.” There can be no restoration without genuine repentance. IMO, Tullian needs face the fact that he might never return to the pulpit, and that can be difficult to do without taking that foot out of the door.

    I don’t know Tullian, but I do know the ache of having to leave pastoral ministry. I told my pastor last week how much I miss the pulpit, and its been 24 years. But by God’s grace I have been allowed to minister in other ways. The last 20 years, I have had a part in the lives of many students. Many are adults now, and I run into them quite often. The hugs, smiles, and thank you are so rewarding. A few years ago, a young man came by to see me at school. “Mr. Sweat”, he said, “I was driving by the school and saw your car, and I just had to stop by.” This was a young man that I expelled as an eighth grader. I didn’t know what to expect from him! “Mr. Sweat, I want to thank you for what you did. I know now that when you said you loved me that day, you really did! Mr. Sweat, I got my life in order!” We hugged!!

    Tullian, you might never stand behind a pulpit again, but if God can somehow use you in others ways, as He did me, you’ll never forget it. I’ve taught twenty years of sermons, but never did one satisfy me more than the day that young man stopped by.

  45. Fyi says:

    Bob @ 44; BRAVO!

  46. Em says:

    Anne, thanks for the information & link… not an “enemy,” i don’t think
    we agree on the folly of nuclear energy as our power source… it works fine as long as it works fine… we used to have a friend whose job it was to dispose of the waste and he wasn’t very optimistic, to say the least 🙂 the French and the Russians used to dump their nuclear waste in the ocean (maybe still do?) and that is scary

    our Congress and maybe our Presidents, too, solve issues with election cycles as time-frames… even, tho, there are voices like Sanders’ – there is no action, we’re riding in a rudderless ship… thank God for God, Who will work all things to His end and the blessed hope

  47. Em says:

    Bob Sweat, you show what a man of God should be… not infallible, but a servant with a story that should guide and, maybe, enlighten some confused souls – IMNSHO

  48. Bsbylon's Dread says:

    Outsider no longer

  49. Steve Wright says:

    Sanders actually has been in government office since 1981 and actually began running for various offices repeatedly since 1972 before he won one. I find no record of him holding a job in the economy, though apparently he had “several” in the few short years between college and starting to run for government office. (Not sure if that is good or bad though 🙂 several?? In about eight years after a college degree?)

    How a guy makes six figures all those years (about a quarter million last year) and still manages to keep 25,000-50,000 in credit card debt is beyond me…but between him and Trump’s multiple bankruptcies, one of these guys is perfect to run America

  50. No but really... says:

    It is interesting that Trump is leading among evangelicals.
    He’s been married three times.
    He “leaves the door open” for federally funded abortions.
    He’s misogynistic and crude.
    He boasts that he has never asked God to forgive him.

    It’s all about immigration… or rather, immigration as it’s framed by Trump.

    Clinton, Bush and Barry all claimed to be Christians… really? At least he is not a hypocrite like most! What you see is what you get!

  51. brian says:

    I must admit I am a bit jealous of FG as I am with anyone who makes money though to my shame I could not make it the way some people do, I lack that spiritual ability. FG does it while helping people that is the best of both worlds. Today I did something that totally disgusted me with myself I went to a council meeting to try to protect the mobile home park I live in because the owner wants to sell it and I have all I own tied up into this. I pleaded for help and told my life’s story a bit, outside of here I have never done that, it made me sick and I felt so disgusted that I played the emotional card. I had all my economic facts, which are the only facts that should ever matter in such, no in any situation, but I just became emotional.

    I cant seem to shake that aspect of the faith I learned so well about emotion, thanks for listening.

  52. brian says:

    “He boasts that he has never asked God to forgive him.”

    In a very strange way, I admire that, well maybe not the God forgive part but the “never asked….” part I cant say that I have asked and I often feel guilty for doing that.

  53. Steve Wright says:

    Where is the evidence that “Trump is leading among the evangelicals” – every article I have read says otherwise and is asking if he will be able to win that part of the GOP.

    Now, has EVERY evangelical gone on record saying they won’t vote for him? Of course not. Many voted for the Mormon over Obama…and many stayed home.

    Most polls aren’t breaking down the electorate yet….

  54. JTK says:

    Thanks Michael, Josh, Ixtlan, for your answers.

    I figured it was close to 100%, allowing for nepotistic churches….

    Michael on August 11, 2015 at 12:09 pm
    “It is interesting that Trump is leading among evangelicals.
    He’s been married three times.
    He “leaves the door open” for federally funded abortions.
    He’s misogynistic and crude.
    He boasts that he has never asked God to forgive him.”

    Getting out a concordance and looking up “alien” (the NASB equivalent of “immigrant” or “refugee”) led me to a theological conversion on the subject.

  55. Josh the Baptist says:

    Steve – Who is the hope for the conservatives this time around? Of all the candidates trotted out so far by either side, I could only vote Huckabee or Cruz with a clean conscience. I don’t think either of them stand a chance.

    Is Bush really gonna be the one?

  56. Michael says:

    Steve,

    I didn’t copy the link, but I just put the words “Trump leading among evangelicals” into Google and came up with a bunch.
    Here’s just one.
    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/first-post-debate-polls-show-donald-trump-still-leading/

  57. Michael says:

    JTK,

    I’m grateful for your conversion…though you are one of very few.

  58. Steve Wright says:

    OK, I see the poll…and the problem. He is polling 20% evangelical. That same poll shows him leading in every single category (men, women, every age breakdown, every education breakdown). So any headline that said Trump leading amongst X would be accurate.

    That’s what happens in a wide field with one guy having more than twice as much support than the 2nd place guys…even if that guy’s total support is only 22%. You lead each category. College grads and high school dropouts. Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals and none/other

    However, his support among evangelicals is weaker in terms of his total support than for example Huckabee and Carson (and to a lesser extent, Cruz and Walker)

    Huckabee is at 5% total, but 10% evangelical. If there is an evangelical favorite, statistically it is him at this stage. In fact, I doubt he has any support other than evangelicals.

    Bottom line – 82% of the poll identify as evangelical, Trump now has 20%..or less than 1/4 of that vote.

    Until the field narrows what these polls need to do is focus on one’s second choice – because the field will narrow

    Carson, Huckabee and Walker all have doubt digit evangelical support and when guys start dropping, their support will go to the survivor and I doubt that 2nd choice is Trump or he would have it already.

  59. Steve Wright says:

    Josh, it is funny that one of the primary jobs held by the man before the Presidency in our nation’s history has been that of General. I think there have been more Generals elected President than Senators.

    Today, the national conversation is about healthcare as much if not more than the military it seems to me (and I can’t imagine a general today being a front runner – Wesley Clark and Colin Powell sure flamed out early)….so maybe an intelligent doctor, even with no elected office experience, will surprise. The Lord only knows. I guarantee you I would vote him over Hillary (and Trump)

    Even if he wasn’t running for President…I commend to all his story which was made into a movie several years ago. Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story.

    My wife and I watched it before we ever heard of the man in any political context and were amazed. (even the Hollywood version).

  60. Steve Wright says:

    I think this poll, amongst so-called evangelical leaders and insiders is more accurate in terms of Trump’s limited appeal in that group.

    http://www.worldmag.com/2015/07/who_do_evangelical_insiders_favor_in_2016

    I think guys like Huckabee and Santorum trail here is due to the “has been” status. When it was either them or Romney (08 for Huck, 12 for Santorum) the evangelicals rallied. In a large field like now though…most don’t want a prior loser.

  61. Steve Wright says:

    The real killer in that evangelical voter link is the preference among the top 4 based on the RCP averages, at the time being: Trump, Bush, Walker, Rubio

    Trump is a very distant fourth.

  62. A Friend says:

    When I grow up I want to be Warren Throckmorton LOL.

    He’s like the virtuous side of me…with about gazillion times more self-control. But, then I wouldn’t be me.

    Well done on the Franklin Graham article. Some “servant” of Jesus. He’s a millionaire off of selling the Gospel for greedy gain. Billy is worth north of $25 Million as well.

    “Serving Jesus!”…ya right. Quite a lucrative career….very sinful. They have their reward.

  63. Em says:

    in defense of Billy G… back before Hearst started promoting the man in So. Calif., Billy was preaching a very unpopular message of hellfire and damnation – be sure your sins will find you out! just a hillbilly show in a circus tent out on a dusty vacant lot… i think that took simple-minded guts, at the very least and possibly- nope, probably – a real desire to save souls…
    i was not yet a Believer, so had no connection or sympathy for his crusade… but i heard my grandparents reminisce, comparing it to tent meetings in the old days in Colorado Springs (everything was better in Colorado) and how enjoyable it had been when it was tent meeting time every year – to sing and picnic in the park and enjoy the gathering… then along came Hearst and then the corporate model, the American way… i think the lines got a little fuzzy in the post war boom optimism
    all in all, i’d rather have my American heritage than any other on earth… sure glad i missed the Exodus out of Egypt and the Babylonian Captivity and the Irish potato famine and the plague and….

  64. Em says:

    speaking of Carl Trueman, the post linked to above sounds like our Michael

  65. Lutheran says:

    Please pray for Jimmy Carter. He has cancer that’s spread.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/12/former-president-jimmy-carter-reveals-he-has-cancer.html

  66. Donner says:

    Carson, Cruz, Fiorina, Huckabee.

  67. Neo says:

    Bob Sweat….incredible insight and wisdom. Thank you.

  68. Scott says:

    Bob Sweat, man, what a testimony and witness.

    You said more in a few paragraphs than Michael has said on the subject in over a decade.

    No offense, Michael 😉

  69. Neo says:

    Scott. That’s total hyperbole.

  70. Scott says:

    Neo, hyper bole sounds like some kind of Mexican soup 😉

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.