New Information On Saeed

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81 Responses

  1. richard says:

    I know from friends that have loved ones in jail in California that cell phones are in use by prisoners there as well. but, as in Iran, you have to hide them from the guards. Makes me wonder how hard is it to hide a cell phone when you live in a cell ? me thinks the guards don’t look very hard. and then, how well does the Internet work in these jails ?
    you would think the signals could be jammed? every time I’m in our local hospital, seems like I can’t get e-mail, social media, or Internet, only text messaging and phone service. seems like our prisons have better wifi or signals than my local Starbucks !
    and as far as Saeed, I think more is to come as far as the truth goes in this situation.

  2. UnCCed@UnCCed.com says:

    Hmmm, mixed feelings.
    We have corroborated evidence of beatings (to a pulp-internal injuries are not easy to cause) and her phone being used for porn.
    I’m hoping the phone in question was shared and he’s not going to “out” whomever because if someone else used his phone and the guy is still there, in the nation of sex changes for gays, it might mean death, especially being exposed by the great satan. I know there’s no evidence to support my theory, but the guy was obviously not ready for the ministry (guilty of spousal abuse), his leadership failed him, being Iranian in Idaho can’t be a picnic (I know ID well), then he physically suffers for Christ-something I know nothing of.
    I have as much sympathy as shock.
    Also, according to EVERY study, porn has been and increases among MANY christian men, including leaders. Any guy who understands Jesus “in the measure you judge…” should tread lightly with this topic, at least any honest guy. Jesus clearly indicted MOST men of adultery based on our thoughts-using a freekin’ phone doesn’t make it worse. Yes if he did, it looks worse, but I and any honest guy will tell you that evil crap once in your brain NEVER leaves! Had I been in that prison being beaten, especially without my wife for that long I would’ve replayed it over and over-making the sin the device is ignorant at least (we men know this) and at worse idiotic.
    I’m really not trying to absolve him of anything, but I think in love, I should wait before assuming guilt because like I wrote, I have no experience with much of what he’s been through.
    Finally, even with the spousal abuse, porn, and let’s throw in mounds of Moses Model abuses of which we’re not allowed to speak, his life mirrors many of the Biblical heroes-I’m thinking of my favorite, David, we have a lot in common, and not the good stuff (I never killed a guy for his woman, but that’s about it).
    I hope he receives at least the right provided by this country’s legal system-innocent until proven guilty, and then the Bible “two or three witnesses.”
    And even if he was the one using the phone at the time of the porn, I hope we can wait till he’s recovered from having the crap beat out of him repeatedly before we do the same.
    Does anyone have any verses which support negate his reward for being beaten for Christ, even over sin? Not opinions, but clear verses.
    By the way, if you think I’m being soft, there’s at least a couple people here who after reading my well-informed, on-staff, first-person, over two decade opinion of issues, would rather spit at me rather than give me the same grace they give themselves. I probably owe them a bottle of alleve after reading me try to be loving.
    Finally, there’s a third group being ignored-their sweet children who might someday read all this, and ironically whom God is surely deploying angels to right now (or already). They’ve done nothing, yet their parents’ God chose their daddy to suffer for Him, and now upon his return, daddy and mommy are fighting (many of us remember in our houses parent think they can hide it, but it never works). May absolute peace descend on their kids at this time, absolutely.

  3. Ryan Ashton says:

    Michael, I just found this too. “Abedini domestic violence incident in 2007 triggered by laptop argument.” It indicates Saeed pushed Naghmeh several times—while she was holding their 10-month old daughter.

    http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article58590133.html

  4. Xenia says:

    Pushing does sound so terrible to me, sorry. She called the cops because her husband pushed her?

  5. Cash says:

    It looks to me as though Naghmeh was telling the truth all along. I’m not sure of some of the factual details, but the base story she tells matches up with the evidence. I too would like to say I don’t condemn Saeed for his sins. That is between him and God. As UnCCeed said, Saeed obviously suffered huge physical and emotional trauma in that prison. Yet, to my knowledge, he never denied Christ. Perhaps this is the story of a good man and woman, each with their sinful issues, who should now be left alone to deal with the trauma they’ve been through. I trust in God for the safety and the healing of the family, the children especially. It’s a possibility their marriage can’t survive this, and that would be sad but sometimes marriages fail. God can forgive that too.

  6. Xenia says:

    Doesn’t sound….

  7. Em says:

    “Perhaps this is the story of a good man and woman, each with their sinful issues, who should now be left alone to deal with the trauma they’ve been through.” amen

  8. Anne says:

    Xenia, unless you’ve been “pushed” while pregnant or holding a baby, or treated/counseled those who have experienced falls resulting in “only being pushed” you have no idea how violent and threatening a “push” can be – especially if threats of greater harm are included during the push. Many survivors of DV, have suffered greater eventual harm, due to not taking the earlier “just getting pushed” around seriously. More tragically, some are not around to describe how such pushing escalated eventually to the actions that took their lives.

  9. Anne says:

    I am very grateful for the progress that has been made in police departments, the justice system and in social service agencies that understand the dynamics and risks of women in DV situations. It has saved many lives. Unfortunately, the attitude Xenia offered is still very prevalent in cultures around the world as well as here in the US. It is especially grievesome to me when propagated by other women.

  10. Babylon's Dread says:

    Oh boy this could get good

  11. Ryan Ashton says:

    I have been in a house where a Christian husband has shoved his wife and daughter, and there were large holes in the walls. Pushing is bad, especially since it rarely ends there. This wasn’t the beginning either, as Naghmeh indicated there was abuse while in Iran..

    The fact Saeed was pushing Naghmeh when she was holding their child shows he has no regard for them as human beings, women, or fellow image bearers of God.

    Bottom line, a man should NEVER put his hands upon a woman, especially the woman he vowed to love and protect and give his life for (Eph. 5).

  12. Paige says:

    #7 from Em….. I’m inclined to agree with your comment.

    Franky, many of us have unsavory pages of our own history…frankly, 2007 is awhile back.
    Doesn’t excuse it. It’s wrong. I’m just saying….. that was 9 years ago…..
    Call me naive…. I still choose to give these people space and the benefit of the doubt and a huge amount of prayer.

    My personal situation with my late/ex/pastor/husband was horrible….. and was very public…. and I was the loser in the public profile….. Yet, here I am 15 years later…. God has been merciful to me…..thus I have a good deal of mercy for others…
    I absolutely continue to pray and hope for good for the Abendinis.

  13. Pastor Al says:

    They should have beat him more.

  14. Pastor Al says:

    Bob Grenier part II.

    Stay classy Calvary Chapel. You guys sure do love your Domestic Abusers and apologize for them.

    But the “evil gays!” don’t let those guys marry, THEY are the scourge of ‘Merica!

    Idiots. I hope the Pox on your House festers and gets gangrene.

  15. Pastor Al says:

    Heck, if Saeed wanted some good p0rn, he should’ve emailed Ralph Wood.

  16. Eric says:

    So Saeed was able to speak with Nagmeh at length. Has Negmeh been dishonest about his communications situation while in prison? If so, who put her up to it? And how would she know about what he is watching in there unless he tells her?

  17. EricL says:

    If he was using her Amazon account to purchase or rent his sleaze videos, as the article states, then she would not only know what he was watching but she was also having to pay for it. I wouldn’t surprised if she was paying the monthly phone bill too. Can’t imagine how high international calls/ downloads cost…

    So not only was he unfaithful to her, but he made her pay the bills for his unfaithfulness. I hope the news article has it wrong, but I fear not. So sad.

  18. Ryan Ashton says:

    Paige and Em:

    This sentiment—which many have—of just letting them deal with their own lives seems strange to me…

    She experienced domestic violence in Iran…
    She experienced domestic violence in Idaho…
    Called the police…
    Talked to Pastor Bob Caldwell…
    Caldwell took Saeed off of his Skype duties with the Iranian churches for 3.5 – 4 months, and then put Saeed right back where he was…

    Now that Saeed is back, how is Naghmeh going to deal with this, exactly?

    Her pastor doesn’t take abuse seriously.
    Her church wants her to shut up about it.
    The wider Christian community is dismissive of her plight, and doesn’t want the inconvenience of dealing with this family.

    So how is she supposed to deal with a husband who is unrepentant, wants to pretend he’s a Christian martyr because he recklessly went to Iran?

    Please… Explain how privacy helps this situation?

    It takes a village for abuse to happen. It will take a village to stop it.

  19. gomergirl says:

    In response to what I see as becoming mostly gossip, I just want to echo Em and Paige and (to a degree UnCCd) and say that perhaps we should allow this to be a topic of personal and private interaction between the people who are actually involved. Armchair quarterbacking is never good for other people’s marriages.

    To those who seem so bitter and angry, I wonder if you are either protesting too much to cover for some shortcoming in yourself, or need to figure out why you are so angry and bitter.

    I have some experience with some these issues, and I have to say that it is people like you (the angry and bitter ones) who drive people like me away from the church. Why would I want to go somewhere that treats those who are struggling in sin that way? Why would I want to be vulnerable when I might be attacked in just the same way, because you think my sin ( or my spouse) is worse.

    Pastor Al, I hope I never have a pastor like you (if you really are one) Just saying.

  20. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I bet her book comes out before his.

  21. gomergirl says:

    #18 Ryan, can I jump in since I agree with them?
    At least for me, I mean private to be between themselves and whomever they choose to counsel them. If Naghmeh is not getting what she needs in her home church, then she should seek out help where she finds it. But the blogesphere and the internet know-it-alls who want to gossip (veiled as reporting or helping) do nothing more than spread rumors and fan the flames of division in the body. Look at the comments on every post about this. People are attacking each other over their views. There is no building up or love or any good thing (save a few who are calling for waiting and patience) Mostly there are accusations and pontification by those with little or no first hand knowledge.

    Your assumptions and assertions might be right, but they might also be wrong. I think waiting for facts and actually letting them deal with their own marriage is the most prudent and loving thing we can do. Unless we are in their circle of friends and know them personally, in which case you should help them in any why you can and still don’t gossip about them.

  22. Ryan Ashton says:

    Gomergirl:

    I appreciate your sentiments and reply.

    That’s just the thing, though… I _do_ know them! Shared meals and had many conversations with them both. Saeed said he wanted to take me to the Middle East with him, even (which I never thought as viable, but hey, maybe he tells everyone this. Who knows).

    I went to CC Boise with them and volunteered in the church office—a place highly charged with sexual discrimination, harassment, and even violence (Bob Caldwell threw an assistant pastor—Mike Sasso—through a wall, reduced his secretary to tears multiple times, and is a bully by and large).

    I am hammering this to the degree I am because I have _no_ confidence anyone in CC Boise has handled Naghmeh with the care she deserves, she has been treated horrendously by the ACLJ and Graham and larger Christian community, and I believe she would find more support from keeping this jn the light than would happen if we all “minded our own business.”

    Personally, I think minding our own business enables abuse… Every single situation this blog deals with is because someone passed by the bleeding person / situation on the roadside. Even if it’s the Internet, people should express care, mobilize, and keep domestic violence and a use of all kinds in the public’s eye.

    We need to deal with this problem, not say it needs to be handled “privately.” Privacy is where the a user has power.

  23. Scott says:

    All I can say is God have mercy upon this couple and their family.

    May God extend his forgiveness and grace upon them in the same way I would want it extended to me if I were in their situation.

  24. Em says:

    gomergirl @21 ” Unless we are in their circle of friends and know them personally, in which case you should help them in any why you can and still don’t gossip about them.” yes, that is exactly right – IMHO

    For most of us, this isn’t a matter of ignoring someone we can help and there is nothing wimpy or coping out in praying for them

  25. dewd4jesus says:

    The enemy just loves it when the Church shoots it’s own wounded. Bunch of gossips is right. How about if we start making all of your sin and struggles public? Would that be okay with you? Worry about examining your own self, and working out your own salvation. Most definitely “with fear and trembling.” Because the standard you’re using, is not the gospel at all. And your standard, rather than the standard of grace, is how you will be judged. Wake up! What did you do to build the kingdom today? If you are under the delusion that participating in this, in the way many do, is in any way edifying to the Church, you probably should just prostrate yourself before God and plead for His forgiveness. I know I will be. For the desire to beat some sense into most of you.

  26. Xenia says:

    Ryan, since you know all those involved so well, maybe you could offer them your personal assistance. Otherwise, all this speculation and probing into their lives online is of no value whatsoever.

  27. brian says:

    My earthly family was not really religious and they had a lot of problems and there was a lot of violence in our house, the mid-sixties to the late seventies were violent times and people did not know how to deal with drug addiction and other issues. I was and to some degree still am a martyr wannabe but looking back I am grateful my family was not evangelical, very grateful. When I was shown the door after my use to the machine was done it was them that took be back and forgave me and I them. I do hope things work out.

  28. Michael says:

    The reason I featured this story was to try to prevent Naghmeh Abedini from being marginalized and become subject to further attack.

    In my opinion both Franklin Graham and Saeed attempted to do just what I expected them to do.

    The task has been accomplished in my opinion…should there be further issues Julie Anne Smith and Dee over at Warburg Watch will mobilize the blogosphere in a heartbeat.

    If the Abedinis wish to reconcile, they will need privacy.
    If they don’t, they have the right to do that out of view as well.

    I’m pretty much done with this.

  29. j2theperson says:

    If he wasn’t technically supposed to have a phone in prison then I can understand why no one would have advertised that fact.

    ***Pushing does[n’t] sound so terrible to me, sorry. She called the cops because her husband pushed her?***

    I had a male friend “push” me once. It was scary and upsetting, and it would have been completely possible for him to have caused a great deal of damage simply by “pushing”. I can’t image how scary and dangerous it would have been if I had been carrying a baby when it happened. All Naghmeh would have had to do is fall the wrong way and that baby could have died. And, given that he was actually convicted of domestic abuse, she was clearly well within her rights to call the police.

  30. j2theperson says:

    ***The enemy just loves it when the Church shoots it’s own wounded. Bunch of gossips is right. How about if we start making all of your sin and struggles public?***

    Saeed’s sin involves perpetrating violence and abuse against another person. He was publicly convicted of that crime. That is the sort of thing that should be talked about and focused on by society at large. Remaining silent about that sort of thing only perpetuates abuse and violence.

  31. Steve Wright says:

    I do hope everyone reads carefully the article posted by Ryan (comment #3) that details the crime. Judging from the comments it seems maybe some are not. It answers a whole lot for me at least and confirms pretty much all of my speculations about 2007 and the aftermath.

    Now that the phone’s existence and allowance in prison has been verified, (as still shocking as that is to hear) I have no trouble believing Naghmeh’s larger statement and have no desire arguing about the extent of this or that, what might be exaggerated or not etc.

    I no longer care about her emails that painted an untrue picture nor am I overly concerned about his actions from a prison cell half a world as both people were under stress I have never and hope to never experience. Now I do fear for the danger of celebrity for them both and hope they will each stay out of the spotlight. Whether they divorce or reconcile is out of my control, but promoting either of them is something I will cease.

    Believing Naghmeh also means I believe every kind word she spoke about Caldwell, ACLJ and the Sekulows, and Franklin Graham – posted on her public facebook wall after Saeed’s release.

    And it also means believing her in her request for prayer for their family…which is the extent of my involvement going further.

    May God watch over them and their precious children who are the only innocents in this mess. As with Michael, I am pretty much done with this.

  32. j2theperson says:

    ***I do hope everyone reads carefully the article posted by Ryan (comment #3) that details the crime. Judging from the comments it seems maybe some are not.***

    What is it you think people are missing? He pushed his wife who was holding a 10 month old baby and threatened to beat her up.

  33. j2theperson says:

    As I think about it, I find her claim that he sexually abused her while in prison to not be as ridiculous and inexplicable as I first thought they were. If he was viewing porn on the phone she was paying for or in any way bullying her into paying for/providing access ti his porn, then, yeah, it’s not completely crazy for a wife to view that as sexually abusive to her.

  34. Paul A. Lytton says:

    Saeed was put in prison for being a Christian.

    “Free Saeed”

    Saeed is free.

    End of story.

  35. Reuben says:

    Still blown away at how spiritual abuse advocates will write off the claims of a woman, simply because she is a woman. And yes, that is precisely what is being done. This man, Saeed, did not suffer for any god. This woman did suffer at the hands of a man so lost in a christian culture that he became the very definition of heroic christian, and christians love their heroes. So because the woman spoke, and we know that this is still a no-no 2000 years later, she is written off simply because she is a woman.

    Religion has poisoned billions of people’s minds. Naghmeh will suffer as a result, and the innocent will see no justice, and god’s army will march on, unfazed by any such “nonsense” coming from any female. Sickening. This makes me sick.

  36. Paul A. Lytton says:

    Naghmeh was abused by Saeed.

    “Heal Naghmeh”

    Divorce.

    End of story.

  37. Reuben,
    I don’t see how in the 21st century you say she will suffer. She can file for divorce and be done with him in 6 months – all nice and legal. As I said above, her book will probably be out before his.

    Saeed has only churches as his speaking platform (and only evangelical churches at that.) Naghmeh on the other hand can align with the likes of Gloria Alread and Ellen and literally bury this guy – to the point that a Calvary Chapel would not invite this guy in.

    Reuben, believe me, this lady has him by the short hairs.

  38. j2theperson says:

    ***I don’t see how in the 21st century you say she will suffer. She can file for divorce and be done with him in 6 months – all nice and legal.***

    Divorce is frequently not that quick and clean–particularly when children and abuse are involved. There are plenty of mothers who have alleged abuse and even had creditable evidence to back their claims up who have had their children taken from them and given to the abusive ex-spouse.

  39. Cookie says:

    Michael if you are truly done perhaps this should be the last post you make on this story. To others – there are only two courses of action here-either the couple works to reconcile or they don’t. Saeed seems to be trying to reconcile-privately. Nagdeh seems to continue going public. Regardless neither party is in danger. Neither party needs a blog community “looking out for them” or supporting them. Both have equal access, in today’s culture, to whatever legal or media resources they need.

    As Christians we should pray for restoration and otherwise butt out!

  40. Because there is this unknown “some” is no reason for her to take no action. In this day of no fault divorce why make the claim of abuse?
    Nothing stops divorce – some things may get in the way of settlement – but divorce is guaranteed. Most settlements are determined post divorce.

  41. j2theperson says:

    I’m not saying she shouldn’t seek divorce. All I’m saying is that your view of the divorce process is unduly rosy.

  42. Not rosy at all – I come from divorced parents and 2 of my kids have been divorced.

    My point, other than shared custody she does not ever need to have anything to do with him again – in the church or in regular life.

    And as I was trying to make the point to Reuben – she has the upper hand.

  43. Reuben says:

    She has no “upper hand” when she is vilified by god’s church hence forth. And she should not be held to shared custody. Those kids should never be anywhere near that excuse of a man. If she writes a book, maybe she will make enough money to keep her kids fed and somewhere safe. After all, who is going to hire a woman who threw a man of god under the bus? I will buy the book. Aside from the “Jesus brought me through…” nonsense, it will be a real examination of what your beliefs making the woman the lesser has done to humanity.

    Unapologetically, she should make millions off of it.

  44. Reuben – for an atheist you don’t think like one-
    “After all, who is going to hire a woman who threw a man of god under the bus?”

    The Gloria Allred’s, the Oprah’s the Ellens – they would love to promote and hire “a woman who threw a man of god under the bus”

    I agree her book would perhaps not sell in the church … which is small beans – but you get the book recommend from Oprah etc – you are an instant millionaire. I know from fact as my nephew’s ex wife was on Oprah with her book and voila – instant millionaire – and she had no special noteriety before presenting the book – whereas Naghem will be a household name.

    Your attitude is still one of chauvinism – you think of women as weak and under the thumb of the man. I am here to tell you the woman is much stronger, smarter and powerful than men … except with thinkers like you.

  45. Michael says:

    Cookie,

    I’ll do what I think right at the time.

    I didn’t write this article…I linked to an article in the mainstream media.
    Hopefully you have written and told them what to write and when as well.

  46. Cookie says:

    Michael the mainstream media did not say they were done with this story. You did. That was the basis of my suggestion

  47. j2theperson says:

    So far the only people talking about them divorcing have been the people on this blog. Both of them have said they want to work on their marriage.

  48. Ixtlan says:

    It is a he said she said scenario, and we it is predictable who is going to believe who.

    ” I know there’s no evidence to support my theory, but the guy was obviously not ready for the ministry (guilty of spousal abuse), his leadership failed him, being Iranian in Idaho can’t be a picnic (I know ID well), then he physically suffers for Christ-something I know nothing of.”

    I think there is plenty of evidence that it should have been obvious that this family was not ready ministry and yes, it appears that leadership failed him (sorry Bob), in spite of what they thought the Lord was telling them. Perhaps the appeal of overseeing a network of underground churches was too great and blinded everyone from the responsibility of overseeing his family’s spiritual development.

    Godly men do not push their wives around, nor do they beat their kids. If they bully at home, chances are great they will bully in ministry (1Tim 3:4-5). That is just common sense.

    I know Boise well enough, although not much about the rest of the state. I don’t see being an Iranian in Idaho, particularly Boise as an issue at all.

  49. Xenia says:

    I think since the Blog has been supporting Saeed’s cause for quite a long time it is only reasonable that Michael would post updates that appear in the media, otherwise he’d be accused of hiding the facts or picking and choosing what to post. Unfortunately, every time something new is revealed, speculation runs wild. They are now no different from any other couple with a troubled marriage. I found myself more concerned about the marriage of these strangers than I was about a couple I know in real life who are having serious problems. I can’t help the Abedini’s but I might be able to help the couple in my church.

    I can’t really see N. as a victim anymore; she has a national audience and she never has to be alone with S. again if she doesn’t want to. They have each retreated to their own corners with their own coaches. God bless them all.

  50. That Guy Over There says:

    a few thoughts on “pushing”…

    when i was in my early 20’s i rented a room from an older married couple and one night in anger the husband pushed the wife into the wall. I watched the ramifications of that first hand.

    Anyone who thinks that it doesn’t count as domestic abuse or violence hasn’t witnessed this or the effects it has in a marriage. Fortunately in this case God’s grace was on great display and they are both doing well.

    For those who say Naghmeh isn’t a victim because she has a national platform or because she had many years apart from him that she’s not trustworthy because “she could have spoken up at anytime.” That whole line of reasoning sinks of many things… many things. Her “platform” was provided (in large part) by people who have now aligned themselves with her husband’s point of view. Many of the people I’ve read on the subject indicate that 3 years is about long enough for someone to feel safe, empowered or whatever else to begin (just begin mind you) to tell there story.

    To be honest, i’m surprised at the response of many on here. For so many who’ve claimed “spiritual abuse” (I’m not saying they are right or wrong in the claim, some are, others aren’t) there seems to be a lack of compassion and concern on the part of many when evidence and proof of abuse is presented.

    MLD,

    you probably don’t care, but you’re coming off as the most heartless example of a human i’ve seen in a long time, even if every hunch you have is proven right.

  51. TGOT,
    I don;t get it. I am not only empowering her I think she is fully capable of taking care of herself.

    Some of you here want to keep her in victim status for a reason I do not understand. If she moves on and gathers the right women around her she can steamroll right over even the like of Franklin Graham.

    Remember, he needs the church for his voice and income – she does not.

  52. victorious says:

    I am praying that both Nagmeh and Saeed remember their first love Jesus Christ and reorient their present situation around that reality. If so I believe Christ will strengthen both of them and simplify their call as adopted children of God called to participate in His redeeming love.

    Nagmeh will be strong enough to let Saeed repent of whatever He needs to repent of (if he does) and act consistently over time to regain her trust and reconcile even if the trust and reconciliation is not sufficient to continue in marriage because of what has already transpired. May Saeed experience and yield to the love of the Father over time so he can overcome the sin within and the sinful practices of his culture of origin so that he at least regains the trust necessary to fulfill the role of a nurturing , loving father to his children.

    Men ( and women too) often forget their role as sons and daughters and their call to grow and mature in the nurturing and challenging love of Abba Father and become swept up in the work of ministry .
    They apparently were both able to minister the gospel in obscurity and within the persecution of a Sharia dominated country and culture.

    I pray they can regain that balance of simplicity that allows them to grow as children of God, participate as servants in His kingdom and cooperate together as parents of their children even if they are not able to reconcile their marriage.

    But above all I pray they will be strengthened with such power that they can say “no” again and again to the Evangelical machine that wants them to fill a role on stage not ordained by God , a role where they are treated like a poster puppet for a cause; where they are discarded when they are no longer valuable to the cause or they wake up and try to sever the hidden puppet strings no one told them about.

  53. victorious says:

    As an addendum to my previous post I want clarify that the “Evangelical Machine” is mostly comprised of well meaning people practicing the love of Christ for the most part. Imo they have become unknowingly infatuated with a cause or a so called move of the Spirit rather than marching forward one step at a time during a season that calls for simple but powerful perseverance.

  54. I feel I need to respond to MLD’s comments. He is chastising any poster who argues that women are still in a disadvantaged position in this day. He has stated twice that “Anyone who says women are in an inferior state is actually being a chauvinist by implying women are weak and need help.” I must tell you that this is a classic ,canned response, and the statement is meant to be manipulative in that it attempts to twist logic and reason. I have heard this same comment hundreds of times. If MLD feels some women have control over men, it is nothing compared to the power and influence men have over women even today. I have a masters degree, but I earned far less than my husband. Women earn less than men in equal positions.. Women are physically weaker than men (weaker vessel) and in the Church women have almost no status, power. or influence. Women today are still at a disadvantage in many practical ways; a woman with young children is even more at the mercy of her husband and Church. I don’t like to see people using twisted reasoning to make their points. Your perspective is valid, but you are being manipulative by accusing those who would want to defend women as “chauvinist”.

  55. Bride of Christ,
    I am baffled by your reaction. As I said, I am the one won is claiming that women are empowered today. Did I not make this claim earlier?
    “Your attitude is still one of chauvinism – you think of women as weak and under the thumb of the man. I am here to tell you the woman is much stronger, smarter and powerful than men … except with thinkers like you.”

    Why do you disagree with this? As an aside, we are talking in particular about Naghmeh – who I don’t think once has called herself a victim. She is one who takes matters into her own hands. He pushed her / hit her – she called the cops, now he is the one with the crimminal record. This does not sound like a victim to me. Upon word on his return, she took the offensive, publicly stopped advocating for her husband – listed out publicly all of his sins to shame him – branded him as a continuing abuser.

    This is an outwardly strong woman who has lived on her own for 3 yrs raising the kids and now has publicly laid down new ground rules.

    Actually, for you to try to drag her back into victim hood is shameful on your part and for you now wrap her in a wage equality fight is terrible and misguided. You do not help the cause of women nor victims.

    I myself applaud the actions she has taken and I am sure that she has only shot her first barrel. But I’m just a guy – what do I know?

  56. Em says:

    Naghmeh… from an old lady’s point of view… i must agree with MLD on this one… women are empowered today to compete outside the home (protected may be another issue)… fully franchised functioning members of society – e.g. until the 1970s i couldn’t get a credit card in my own name… or a mortgage

    however, another aspect comes to mind: because we women (i think and i may be wrong) treasure our marriages and our homes to a greater degree than men do Naghmeh is a victim
    just as a hurricane or earthquake creates victims, Naghmeh has had what should have been the center of her earthly world torn apart…

  57. MLD, I most certainly don’t want to get into an on-line debate. Perhaps our differences of opinion on this issue have more to do with our different church experiences than our different sexes. I attended Calvary Chapels twice a week for over 35 years. Let’s disregard the gender wage gap for now. Calvary Chapel discourages mothers of any age from working outside the home – and it isn’t a subtle discouragement, either. A Christian mother with children most likely has been out of the job market for quite some time, so naturally any mother with an abusive husband will worry about how she will be able to provide for her children if she leaves him – but let’s leave that out of the equation as you desire.. I still assert that advocating for abused women is in any way chauvinistic as you yourself characterized it.. Women are sometimes raped by husbands ( a form of sexual abuse) and they are murdered by their spouses in far greater numbers than men are. According to recent statistics, for homicides where the victim-killer is known, 31% of women are killed by their intimate partner in contrast to only 4% of men killed by an intimate partner. The facts speak for themselves; women ARE victims more often than men in intimate relationships. No one is dragging women into a “victimhood status”. Seeking justice for victims and working for a better outcome for our daughters ( I have two) is what we all should be working towards. The term “victimhood status” has become a new buzzword. Users of this term are often seeking to diminish the pain and suffering of real actual victims and minimize the damage caused to them. God Himself cares very much about victims, as evidenced by hundreds of verses in the Bible.

  58. Em says:

    am i misreading or are BofC and MLD talking around each other? doesn’t MLD agree that an abused woman needs help and support? isn’t he saying (he’s good at deflecting to salient point under discussion to make his point – lol ) – isn’t he saying that Naghmeh has help and support and her past abuse is now being dealt with – to her benefit? dunno – just trying to follow the topic and the discussion…

    back to football now – at my age, if it isn’t Manning’s last, it may be my last game 🙂 probably not…

  59. Em says:

    ” deflecting to salient point ” ummm make that deflecting the salient point …

  60. Bride of Christ – look at it this way. Because women are victims you are making the jump that all women are victims. Since all women are victims then Naghmeh must be a victim.

    I don’t buy it.

    Also, Me and my family were a part of CC and SBC for 25 yrs. Not once did anyone ever suggest to my wife that she should not work.

  61. MLD, This was mostly pushed by Cheryl Broderson and Brian Broderson at CC Vista. We attended CC Vista and we were part of the “inner circle” there for 18 years under their leadership . They also taught that psychology was “satanic” and using any type of anti-depressant was a disgrace and sinful. ( You would never know this if you listened to Brian Broderson today) These were the days of Bob Hoekstra, who led the crusade against secular counseling of any kind. We still own Bob Hoekstra’s set of 30 plus tapes tapes on the “evils of secular counseling and psychology”. I am an expert on Calvary Chapels My husband even attended Chuck Smith’s church before attending CC Vista, where Cheryl and Brian Broderson pastored..

  62. MLD, CCVista was also George and Debbie Bryson’s home church ( aka There’s a Cult Leader in MY Kitchen: by daughter Ester Dewitt), so, Please, I don’t need to be told what Calvary Chapel teaches – I lived it, up close and personal, for many, many years.

  63. jimbo says:

    “They also taught that psychology was “satanic” and using any type of anti-depressant was a disgrace and sinful.”

    Yes, such a nice touch, especially with unwitting CCers, many of them already isolated and suffering from emotional issues. Just another way for them to feel cut off and isolated. Pawns in the devil’s hands.

  64. Bride – well you started out saying CCs teach and now you have narrowed it down to one.

    But let me ask – do you take any responsibility for your own spiritual well being? In other words why did you stay … or did you like being in the inner circle (whatever that is) for 18 yrs to care about the family’s welfare?

    Why did you just continue to drink their kool aid?

  65. Ixtlan says:

    I thought I wanted to be in the inner circle once. I got close enough to see that it was something I wanted no part of and I left.

  66. Alan says:

    @ Paige (#12),

    I loved reading your 2nd paragraph in particular. What you wrote was nothing short of pure Christianity: “God has been merciful to me…..thus I have a good deal of mercy for others…”

    Thank you for writing this. I needed to read that and I need to become like this.

  67. Josh the Baptist says:

    No great place to put these, but they get lost on facebook – More info is coming out:

    Naghmeh Abedini Lory. I was on the phone with Saeed 6-8 hours a day. Saeed admitted to having a phone in prison. I knew exactly how he was doing every single day. I was told by the ACLJ that I could not share about Saeed having a smuggled (smart phone) as it might cost his life. He admitted to congressman Pittinger that he had a phone and was on social media and websites and on skype and phone hours and hours each day and knew exactly what was happening…

  68. Josh the Baptist says:

    When asked if she wanted to ne on the phone that much…”no. Because most of it was very abusive and controlling. This is why in end of October 2015 I told Saeed no more. I felt bad and could not cut off the abuse. Who does that to someone in prison? So I kept answering his phone calls and trying to encourage using scripture and worship. I was either being on the phone with Saeed or traveling or doing media. All the while the phone calls and the continued emotional and verbal abuse and the control was destroying me. I said no more because I could no longer take it and could not understand why the abuse while I was fighting for him so hard. I took so much for my eyes to be opened. It took 3 years of Saeed’s imprisonment and much prayer and fasting for the veil to be lifted and for me to find my strength in the Lord to say no more to the abuse. It was truly God’s Grace.”

  69. Josh the Baptist says:

    And on the question of why she would say they had no contact…and this one is a DOOZY:

    “because I was told by ACLJ to say that. That if there was ANY indication that I had communication with Saeed outside of the weekly visits of the family, Saeed’s life would be in danger. I admit that I obeyed man other than God and idolatry and lie are sins I have to owe up to. It was freeing to not lie any more in October and to be free of having to keep secrets. It was displeasing to God and I have repented of that.”

  70. Michael says:

    He implied in one of those interviews that he got the phone from the guards, or they were bribed to allow it.

    I want to know who paid for it…

  71. Josh the Baptist says:

    This has turned into one of the craziest news stories I’ve ever followed. I honestly have no clue who is telling the truth.

  72. Michael says:

    For a number of reasons, I tend to believe her.
    I can’t believe that no one has written this up yet…maybe I’ll try.

  73. Em says:

    this comment should carry no weight whatsoever – may be more a question, actually…
    the other day i caught a short interview with Saeed A. on my car radio and i came away thinking that the fellow may not be too bright… or, perhaps, not too acclimated to the commerce of the Western world? dunno

  74. Michael says:

    Em,

    People I’ve spoken with say the former is the case…

  75. Kevin H says:

    This story really has become so surreal. Never in a million years back when we were advocating for Saeed would I have imagined a scenario like this playing out.

    So if Naghmeh is now telling the truth (and I am inclined to believe her for the most part), she was regularly being abused for hours each day. And this went on for a significant portion of Saeed’s imprisonment. And then she was instructed to lie about the phone and her contact with Saeed. So she had to take the abuse via the phone, and then she had to lie about the phone in order to protect her abuser. Unbelievable!

    And yes, Michael, I too would be very interested to know who was financing the phone so that Saeed could have it and regularly use and charge it.

  76. Kevin H says:

    Additionally, in Saeed’s interview on Fox News the other day, it sounded like he was arrested and imprisoned for working with churches in Iran. We long had been told when he was arrested this last time that he was only working with children’s orphanages homes and not churches. That he was previously warned about working with churches and he was abiding by his agreement to not do so. Now in his Fox News interview, it sounds like the story is different. So while it was stillan unrighteous arrest and imprisonment, this would seem to be one more significant detail that we were lies to about.

  77. Kevin H says:

    And now this is only third or fourth hand information, but there are those on Naghmeh’s Facebook page who are making the charge that Saeed wouldn’t even listen to the leaders in those Iranian churches. That they wanted him to leave because his presence was endangering them but he wouldn’t listen to them. I have no idea if this is true or not. But with the complete mess this story has become, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. This whole story has become so saddening and utterly flabbergasting.

  78. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    I’ve heard those same charges from people a lot closer to the mess…

    New article up…

  79. Kevin H says:

    Just saw the new article. I’ll copy my comments over to the new thread which will be more relevant.

  80. Michael says:

    Kevin H,

    Good call…good comments.

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