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86 Responses

  1. London says:

    Had lunch with someone I respect a lot yesterday. During our time together, he said that he thinks Satan hangs out in church, during service, trying to distract, and convince people not to follow God.
    I always thought of church as a “satan” free zone since God and the devil can’t occupy the same space (have no idea where that idea came from) and someone always prays for God to “join” the congregation during the opening prayer…
    What do you guys, who believe in “satan”, think? Is Satan kept out by those kinds of prayers or by actually hearing the word of God etc…
    Yes, it’s theoretical, but I’m curious what folks think.

  2. Michael says:

    I think the unseen spiritual war rages all around us, all the time.

    The problem I have with your friends theory is that it places the religious lecture as the apex of life with God.

    It’s easy to follow God for a couple of hours on Sunday…it’s the rest of the week that is more of an issue and that’s where we usually struggle more.

  3. Em says:

    London’s started the open thread in an interesting way…
    hmmm …
    in Matt 18 (i looked it up) Jesus was talking to His disciples and said – among other things to ponder – where two or three gather in My name, I will be there in their midst… don’t know if that keeps Satan out, but it would keep him cornered

    one thing we each do bring into church with us are our minds and the contents … and our hearts which tend to wander

    hmmm

  4. Em says:

    “The problem I have with your friends theory is that it places the religious lecture as the apex of life with God”

    reminds me that we used to call the main hall of a church the sanctuary… i wonder how many of the preachers in times past were “afraid” of where they stood – careful with God’s truth?

    tearing my bed apart this a.m., it occurred to me that most of today’s preachers put their mouths where the money is… maybe it’s always been that way – dunno

  5. London says:

    I should clarify. He wasn’t saying “satan” was around only during preaching. More about the whole thing about Satan trying to win a battle with those that follow God and to do what it took to interrupt that desire. The best place to fight a battle like that, according to him, was where most of the enemy (Christians) were gathered in one place.
    Not really doing his words justice with my paraphrase, but that’s the general idea.

  6. Michael says:

    We do battle with the world, the flesh, and yes, the devil.
    The times when we are the most vulnerable is when we’re alone or separated from the Body…not on Sunday.
    Just my take on it…

  7. Bob says:

    Satan is more than a person or spirit, it is anything or body which conflicts with the purposes of God. It is why Jesus called Peter Satan and why the drive to church is satan filled.

  8. Em says:

    #6- “most vulnerable … when separated from the Body? ” total agreement there, but some of my most difficult times – when it comes to keeping my focus on the Lord – is not when i’m alone, but rather when i’m in the midst of the day to day commerce that seems to press and demand much more than it used to – there must be a whole category of employment now called useless and redundant “form maker” …

  9. Linda Pappas says:

    Satan is the Prince of this world and along with this, there are legions of his minion doing his bidding in the world and minds of God created beings on multiple layers. He has not be bounded yet in hell, temporarily or permanently.

    As for the ecclesia, Satan is as presence as anywhere else, however, so is the presence of the Holy Spirit and God’s host of angels. Not just before one elects to join the assembly of other Believers, or after leaving it. Satan was as present in the desert with Jesus, as Jesus was present with him.

    Think about when going into your prayer time and how often you are distracted or become suddenly tired or sense evil about you. Then think about how suddenly that heaviness is lifted and seems to have vanished when rebuking that darkness that seem to have entered in or come upon you.

    Someone quoted: “No matter how fast light travels, darkness is always there to meet it.” This is why we must always put on the whole armor of God and be in constant prayer, no matter where we are and what we may be doing. So that we can overcome the wiles of the devil (Satan) and the flesh and the world.

  10. Linda Pappas says:

    London,

    Sort of like saying that Satan don’t really put a lot of focus upon those that are in the world except to trip up those who are not. Even more so, I would think that those who are called leaders in the ecclesia or assembly—his minions are quite busy at throwing things at them (using people, places, and things that tickle the senses), but then when the leader compromises, Satan simply provides the narcissistic supply or addictive substance (power, money, sex) that then takes over and perverts the mind into leading others down the same pathway.

  11. mike says:

    Satan is not omnipresent. And in the old testament, he tested God’s people at the direction and allowance of God Himself.
    Far from being God’s adversary, he was ours on God’s behalf.
    Where did we ever get the idea that Satan was some kind of dualistic demigod?
    -mike

  12. Em says:

    “Far from being Godโ€™s adversary, he was ours on Godโ€™s behalf.”
    not sure i’m tracking here…. Satan is our adversary? that i understand, but …?
    on God’s behalf? hmmm… was Satan tempting Eve waaay back there in the garden on God’s behalf? hmmm… might be…. hmmm

  13. Linnea says:

    Michael @2 & Em @#3..amen! I believe at any place, at any time, at any juncture, satan will oppose God’s purposes. It’s up to us to have our armor in place and to expect the assault. I have to be honest…that gets old, all the time, but I do believe satan looks for opportune moments of weakness and takes advantage of them. That’s why it’s so important for us to be connected to brethren in Christ.

  14. Hebrew Bible

    The original Hebrew term satan is a noun from a verb meaning primarily “to obstruct, oppose”, as it is found in Numbers 22:22, 1 Samuel 29:4, Psalms 109:6. Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as “the accuser” or “the adversary”. The definite article ha- (English: “the”) is used to show that this is a title bestowed on a being, versus the name of a being. Thus, this being would be referred to as “the satan”.

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  16. The early Christian church encountered opposition from pagans such as Celsus, who claimed that “it is blasphemy…to say that the greatest God…has an adversary who constrains his capacity to do good” and said that Christians “impiously divide the kingdom of God, creating a rebellion in it, as if there were opposing factions within the divine, including one that is hostile to God”.

  17. “Where did we ever get the idea that Satan was some kind of dualistic demigod?”

    I agree with Mike on this point

  18. I want to know why none of you believe Jesus. He said he has already bound Satan.

  19. Linda Pappas says:

    Ephesians Chapter 6

    10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    1 Peter Chapter 5

    6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

    8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

    God hardens the hearts of people to accomplish His purpose as well as He hates the workers of iniquity. So even though He may make it possible to bring negative consequences upon His people, He does not ignore the oppression and evil committed against them.

  20. Anne says:

    Yep – the contradiction between #20 & 21 is why when in doubt, I give more weight to Jesus’ words than those of his followers, including the apostles. If only for the reason to try and keep it simple for my poor pea pickin brain ๐Ÿ™‚
    Not dissing the epistles.
    I think it is sometimes easier, a cop out in some circumstances to give the devil credit when it is really just our ego/self-will run riot causing chaos in our minds & lives.

  21. Wow, even I am not bold enough to pit someone’s word’s against the very words of Jesus.

    Read Matt Ch 8 & 9 – the 10 miracles / healings (does 10 ring a bell?) Jesus is showing all that he has conquered Satan. There are 10 different situation where Satan had dominance over people … and Jesus defeated each one.

    And then in Ch 12 he BOLDLY states 29 โ€œOr again, how can anyone enter a strong manโ€™s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.” Satan is the strong man and mankind was in his possession. Jesus has bound Satan and robbed him of you and me.

    So again, how does Satan have any power over you?

  22. Em says:

    ah, interesting points here … G’s point regarding adversarial beings labeled satan or vice versa… yes … but also agree with MLD that the adversary with a big ‘S’ is also a living being … and bound? yep, i remember that now, but need to ponder the ramifications of that… and the sequencing … he’ll be ‘loosed for a season’ yet to come as i read it… hope that season isn’t upon us
    guess i can’t get my mind around the “dualistic demigod,” yet
    always gain reading here…
    hope to read more
    but for now – God keep

  23. Em says:

    Anne, “I think it is sometimes easier, a cop out in some circumstances to give the devil credit when it is really just our ego/self-will run riot causing chaos in our minds & lives.”
    yes true words… IMX – hard to face, but true

  24. Linda Pappas says:

    None are excused . . . . Romans 1:20

    Repent, and believe—–Jesus

    Watch ye therefore . . . . how many times does Jesus tell us this. And didn’t He also tell Peter that Satan wished to sift him.

    Jesus told us: “Luke 12:39

    And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

    Mark Chapter 13

    31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

    33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

    34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

  25. Muff Potter says:

    โ€œIt is wonderful how much time good people spend fighting the devil. If they would only expend the same amount of energy loving their fellow men, the devil would die in his own tracks of ennui.โ€

    โ€• Helen Keller, The Story of My Life

  26. Linda – “Watch ye therefore . . . . how many times does Jesus tell us this. And didnโ€™t He also tell Peter that Satan wished to sift him.

    There is much that Satan WANTS to do … but can’t as he has been bound.

    As I said read the actions of Jesus in Matt 8 & 9 and let me know if Jesus left Satan with any power or authority.

  27. Steve Wright says:

    1 – Context is everything. Yes we read the satan much like we read the king. It is not too hard to figure out the being referenced by the title.

    2 – Apparently Luke did not get the message when he transitioned from his gospel (where he mentions Satan by name more than any other gospel writer) and his Acts of the Apostles. Poor Theophilus would be quite confused if MLD was teaching his Sunday school class.

    3 – Helen Keller talking about Christianity is about like Gandhi doing the same – reminds me of C.S. Lewis (you know who actually was a Christian) quote about people of fame for one area of life acting like experts in theology when they are woefully unqualified.

    Our modern facebook version of such is George Takei

  28. Bob says:

    Wow I’m in agreement with the G guy on this. Too many pagan myths about the power of The Satan filtering into Christian beliefs.

    The God is in control of even The Satan

    When do people become little satans and oppose God and His purposes?

  29. Steve,
    My challenge to the group was left unaddressed – “As I said, read the actions of Jesus in Matt 8 & 9 and let me know if Jesus left Satan with any power or authority.”

    So, what thinketh thee?

    From your statement above, I take it you think the account of the ascension should have included Jesus’ words “I leave you now with unfinished work. I didn’t have time to deal with or defeat Satan … so you are on your own on this one. My words of warning to you, watch out!”

  30. London says:

    I think the specific question is “does satan hang out in church with you”?

  31. Anne says:

    Wow. Satan is the 4th most powerful entity in the universe as the second linked article above states??!! Considering it is written that he is a fallen, rebellious angel, and it is also written there are other angels, (both those who joined the rebellion and those who remained faithful to their creator) did his insurrection cause his powers to increase? I know it is written ole Luc was one of the, if not the most beautiful angel, but when did he acquire super powers beyod that of other angelic beings. Did God increase his power so Lucifer would be a more effective instrument in testing us humans?

    Bizarre.
    I think that any power the devil would have really comes from the promotion of humans regarding his character and ability. The quote Muff cited is right on.

  32. Anne says:

    London -As you might guess from my #35, my opinion would be “no, Satan does not hang out with you in church” and probably not anywhere else either. Knowing full well my opinion is a minority position ๐Ÿ˜‰

  33. Em says:

    London, we’re solving the satan dilemma by committee ๐Ÿ˜†

    #27 ennui – “a feeling of listlessness and dissatisfaction arising from a lack of occupation or excitement.” had to look it up … thought it might be a bird resembling a short legged ostrich

  34. Em says:

    Anne, no some of us here agree with you … someone pointed out that he is not omnipresent and, of course, MLD thinks he’s chained up somewhere…

    and then there’s the view that anything or anyone working against Christ’s work is a satan… i can go along with that – up to a point

  35. Em says:

    P.S.. MLD, does have scripture to back up his view – but it’s skewed to the ancient Lutheran doctrines (which i’m not – waay not – qualified to debate)

    now i’ll quit

  36. Anne says:

    Yes, Em, there have been some good points brought up regarding the omnipresent issue, and Jesus having bound satan for a time. Though I wager it may still be a minority position. Knowing I might be wrong, LOL! I always enjoy it when you contribute to the conversation, Em! Glad you’re here.

    Thank you, London for the topic. Always good to see you here too. Many of my neighbors live with mental illness, many schizophrenia. The stuff they’ve been told about the devil by well meaning believers causes some of them a lot of undue anxiety, IMO.

  37. Anne says:

    I mean really. What’s the point of Jesus setting us free, if once we believe in him, by the very fact of our believing, means an evil entity out for our destruction is going to start following us around like a ravenous wild beast??

  38. ha-filbertz says:

    perhaps those in-church distractions are mere manifestations of bored children, attention-deficit adults, sleep-deprived teenagers, and monotonous preachers preceeded by outdated organ music. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  39. em,
    “P.S.. MLD, does have scripture to back up his view โ€“ but itโ€™s skewed to the ancient Lutheran doctrines (which iโ€™m not โ€“ waay not โ€“ qualified to debate)”

    How is that a Lutheran doctrine? I just quoted the scripture. Jesus is explaining how he disposed of satan – when he was being accused of such work under the power and authority of satan. Read Matt 12 for yourself.

    It’s not Lutheran – it’s the Amil position held by the majority of the Church for the majority of Church history. Held by Catholics – Orthodox – Anglican – almost all Reformed. There are very fe who do not believe that satan is bound during the Church Age.

    PS. Satan being bound does not mean being chained up at all.

  40. Em says:

    MLD – we may have views that are closer on this than i understood … ? …

    somehow, the binding of Satan (capital ‘S’ and small ‘s’) is tied to the strength of our individual faith, and, yet, not always … there’s always Divine Intervention, too

    just passing by here right now, but glad to read #43

  41. Linda Pappas says:

    Surfer51

    Excellent articles written on the topic at hand.

    By the way, what church do you I attend if any at this time and if it is not being too revealing on this blog.

    Have to also say, the articles are able to stand on its own without the reference to Bush. Not that I am a fan of his—just saying, the topic at hand, which is most important for people to know and to understand would have been served better without this, as it sort of takes the reader off track.

  42. Bob says:

    London

    Yes satan does and probably in the pew or seat next to you.

  43. Anne says:

    I think too many folks get their ideas about spiritual warfare from Frank Perriti (?) and the like rather than the bible. Similar to basing your eschatology on Left Behind ๐Ÿ˜‰

  44. Anne’s #41 is a valid question and I would like to hear an answer.

  45. em,
    “somehow, the binding of Satan (capital โ€˜Sโ€™ and small โ€˜sโ€™) is tied to the strength of our individual faith, ”

    Well, I guess we are not as close as you thought. Satan’s binding has nothing to do with us or our individual faith. It is a act in time and space and solely by Jesus for his purposes.

    Satan is not fighting against us – he is fighting against Jesus. He is trying to twart the work of Christ – not us. He may use us to get to Jesus, but we are not even close to being his opponent.

    Jesus bound satan not for our benefit (although we do benefit) but so that he (Jesus) can do the work of the Father.

  46. Bob,
    If I thought Jesus were in my church, I would quickly move my membership to a Christian congregation.

  47. “If I thought Satan were in my church,”

  48. Michael says:

    MLD,

    This teaching of a completely neutered Satan is unbiblical and dangerous.
    Frankly, one of the reasons that we are in some of the difficulties we are in these days is because of the denial of supernatural evil.
    It’s heresy…and I don’t use that word very often.

    โ€œFor we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.โ€
    (Ephesians 6:12 ESV)

    โ€œBe sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.โ€
    (1 Peter 5:8 ESV)

    There are numerous references in the NT to the ongoing work of the enemy.

    Denying that fact is as grievous as you claim denying any other part of Scripture is.

  49. Bob says:

    MLD:

    Read before you write….

    The Satan and satan.

    It’s in the Bible, where not all references are to the individual known as the Satan.

    Now the term “devil, ” while sometimes the same individual is a reference to a different act by that individual. So are there “devils” in your church or does “the Devil” run when you speak?

    Could it be you are a devil or a satan occasionally? I know I’ve been accused by better than you of such actions.

    Now I’ll give you the smiley face with a wink; ๐Ÿ˜‰

  50. Xenia says:

    I agree with what Michael has written. While Satan has been defeated he is still permitted considerable free rein. Death has been defeated too yet we still die. Christ defeated death and Satan on the cross but this is one of those now-but-not-yet situations. If Satan has been completely bound then none of the warnings given in the NT mean anything. His ultimate defeat will be realized at the end of the age but it has already been accomplished on the cross.

  51. “This teaching of a completely neutered Satan is unbiblical and dangerous.”

    But then I never spoke of a completely neutered Satan. I spoke of a bound Satan just as Jesus did. I already said that a bound Satan is not a “chained” Satan. I still ask anyone to read Matt 8 & 9 and tell me where Jesus has left Satan with any power and authority over us. Each of those 10 miracles / healings in a nail in Satan’s coffin.

    Look, you don’t need to go that far – look in Matt 4 where Jesus with the wave of his hand (my picture) dismisses Satan and away he goes.
    Jesus said to him, โ€œAway from me, Satan! For it is written: โ€˜Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.โ€™ Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.”

    I think it is dangerous to teach that a Christian could fall from Jesus to Satan.

    And all of this happened before the cross – the cross was the seal of approval that it had already been accomplished.

    But I again implore someone to answer Anne’s #41.

  52. Xenia says:

    Is the question why did Christ save us just to allow us to suffer? If Christ reversed the curse, why are we still feeling the effects? Why is Satan still on the loose? Why is there still sickness and why are there still weeds popping up in my garden? Why does childbirth hurt?

    You need a good theology of suffering to explain these things.

  53. Em says:

    well, to answer Anne’s #41 from my view ๐Ÿ™‚

    the point is that we are just victims of the war going on in this world – good and evil or whatever label one thinks best… UNTIL we consciously chose Christ and once we did we are participants… remember the armor that someone above was stressing? why wear armor if no one is shooting at you?

    and, MLD, we are closer than you’ll admit … Xenia defined it pretty well, did she not?

    isn’t it strange to be participants in a war where the victory is won, but the battles rage on? for now they do…

  54. Xenia says:

    What three things did Christ defeat on the Cross?

    Death
    Sin
    the Devil

    Yet these three things are still with us, for a time. Even in the church.

    Just as the Kingdom exists now it will not be fully realized until the end of the age.

    Just as these things exist now, their defeat will be fully realized at the end of the age.

    Now and Not Yet.

  55. Xenia – I am not talking of suffering at all – usually we cause our own suffering and we cause others to suffer because of our actions.

    I am talking about is Satan stalking Christians as a roaring lion with any chance of snatching the Christian from the hands of Jesus. If Jesus bound Satan (I am assuming you believe Jesus did that as he stated in Matthew 12) so that he could steal us from Satan – do we then just become a ping pong ball back and forth and whoever has possession of us at the end wins us?

    As a Christian (and I am only speaking of Christians) am I to live in daily fear of Satan or has this all been settled? Guess which side I’m on?

  56. Surfer51 says:

    Anne @ 41

    As always let’s go to the Bible for your answer:
    http://biblehub.com/1_peter/5-8.htm

  57. Surfer51 says:

    Linda @ 45

    Thank you!

    If you look at the date of the article when I first posted it, bush was in the oval office and it was very relevant o include him and his actions in the post.

    Not so much these days as another has continued what he had started.

    But I am in total agreement with you, if I were to write the post today I would most definitely be taking your very wise advise.

    ***
    Michael,
    I was at “The Alley” used book store in Pasadena CA today and I picked up an original copy of “History of the Christian Church” By Moeller. (Reformation to 1648)

    After the death of Dr. Moeller the completion of this book was done by his colleague Dr. G. Kawerau.

    It is in really good condition.

    I would like to gift it to you if your interested?

    I believe you might still have my email:
    surfer51@

    Send me a mailing address that is safe for you or one your comfortable with me knowing and I will send it to you if you would like.

    David

  58. Xenia says:

    I am talking about is Satan stalking Christians as a roaring lion with any chance of snatching the Christian from the hands of Jesus<<<

    Yet this is exactly what St. Peter says is happening.

    Watch out, Peter says to Christians, because Satan our adversary is roaring around, seeking to eat us up.

    I don't know how else that verse could be interpreted.

    I would, like Peter, warn Christians to be on guard.

  59. Surfer51 says:

    (This is interesting)

    Satan’s two favorite lies:

    *Satan is a figment of the imagination.

    *He is everywhere and uncontrollable.

    Neither is true.’

    Luther made the claim that he had personal evidence of the devil’s power. He himself, he declared, had seen Satan.

    “Satan,” he writes,’often appears in disguise: I have seen him with my own eyes, in the shape of a pig, a flaming wisp of straw, etc…’

    He told his friend Myconius that the Devil had appeared to him at Wartburg with the intention of killing him, and that he often met him in the garden, in the form of a black boar.
    (French translation, Plon, Paris, 1902, Vol. VI, p. 432 et seq.)

    But it was not only in his private correspondence or table talk that Luther spoke thus.

    He saw the devil’s hand everywhere.

    “The Devil,” writes Luther, ‘is a constant menace to the life of Christians: he slacks his wrath by pouring down on them all kinds of evils and calamities.’

    His writings were interesting when it came to the devil.

    Some of his assertions he makes are quite incredible.

    He is persuaded, for instance, that Satan sometimes has intercourse with young girls, who thereupon become pregnant; the children born of this horrid union are the sons of the Devil and have no souls.

    The Devil figured in almost every Lutheran sermon.

    ( From Satan in the modern world by Msgr. Leon Cristiani 1959, translated by Cynthia Rowland)

  60. Michael says:

    Surfer51,

    That is very kind of you…thank you.

    My mailing address is
    P.O. Box 226
    Phoenix, OR 97535

  61. Em says:

    not sure this is humorous… regarding the devil… as i was reading and digesting the views in the comments here, my daughter fell off of the porch and badly twisted her ankle… my daughter the agile bike racer and fitness nut… i’m with Luther, tho – quite willing to give the devil credit

    i know there are dear souls here who, if they see this will pray for her – thank you and God keep

  62. London says:

    Surfer
    There was a story published in the Nigerian Tribune yesterday about a girl giving birth to a child after having “sex with a snake” that was turn itself into a man and slither in and out of her room
    People still believe stuff like that.
    I’m thinking she was probably drugged or lying.

  63. Xenia says:

    I was participating in my godson’s baptism last Monday and we godparents (on behalf of the baby) turned towards the west and spit on the devil. Ptoooey, you old Worm.

    (Adults getting baptized do their own spitting.)

  64. Surfer51 says:

    Michael I will mail it to you Monday.

    Em,
    Ice that ankle!
    Lay hands on it and pray over it.
    We lift your daughter up and are joining your prayers for a swift healing by Jesus.

  65. Em says:

    i once knew a young man, the son of a very prominent doctor, who when angry with his father, rather than talk back, would go out in the yard and spit repeatedly until he ran out of saliva … ๐Ÿ™‚

  66. Em says:

    thank you, Surfer51

  67. Xenia,
    As I asked earlier, do you believe that we just go back and forth between Jesus and the devil? Can a Christian be devoured by the Devil? We have no protection outside of ourselves

    This is a very strange teaching that Jesus has only given us the opportunity to resist the devil, but in fact has not provided us protection in our weakness nor does he stand in our place and resist the devil for us.

    As I said in an earlier post, there are many things that the devil would like to do, but is incapable of doing — devouring me is one of them.

    Just the thought that you spit at the devil shows that you are not very afraid of him or think that he has any power.

  68. I think what is missed is that Satan is the accuser – and this may be how he tries to devour us – by accusing us to the Father, hoping that the Father will judge us on our own and not by the work of the Son. But it is Jesus, our advocate who stands before the Father and says – “don’t pay any attention to this old toothless wannabe.”

    This is all Satan can do – and if you believe he can win, then you must believe that Jesus did not stand and advocate for you.

  69. Xenia says:

    I don’t believe Satan can or will win, he was defeated at the cross.

    But I don’t think he is tied up as tightly as you seem to believe he is.

  70. I don’t think he is tied up at all – he has been bound by Jesus … whatever that means. In the same way a Lutheran would talk about our pre conversion will being bound – no ropes or chains involved ๐Ÿ˜‰

    “I donโ€™t believe Satan can or will win…”
    If he can devour a Christian then he has won – against that one Christian. That is why I say he absolutely cannot win over a single Christian.

  71. London says:

    So no one chose to say anything about how at church if people are worshipping, focusing on God etc, then Satan wouldn’t be able to stand it and would leave even if he had shown up in the first place.
    Interesting…
    If God inhabits the praise of his people, could satan stay in the room anyway?
    Dunno…
    i swear I must have heard stuff like that when I was a kid cause I’ve always just had that type of assumption. Of course “satan” couldn’t be in a place where Christians met to worship because he couldn’t stand to be around so many people giving God glory and praise etc.
    odd the stuff that sticks with you

  72. London says:

    My first response when he said what he did was “of course he doesn’t hang out in church” it would never have crossed my mind that it could be otherwise.
    Also, I think I take the request of most folks who do the opening prayer, for the Holy Spirit to come join us (or similar words) to mean that God fills (whatever that means) the space and that automatically would preclude the presence of any “evil” spirit (not inhabiting a person). Any “free floating” bad spirit would be gone when Gid arrived.
    Lol…yep…naive and bad logic, but heck, it worked for me…

  73. Xenia says:

    “Devouring” a Christian wouldn’t doesn’t have to mean stealing their salvation from them.

    In Galatians we read of Christians “biting and devouring” each other but this is not related to their salvation.

    Be on guard because Satan can cause you great harm without snatching you from the hand of God.

  74. Charles says:

    The way people have been dressing and behaving in churches these days I will say yes.

    Let me sound like an old man here, if I was going to church with my family and my daughter wore those super short shorts, or thigh high dresses, I would have her go back into the house and change.

    There is too much indiscretion with our clothing when we go to church , tank tops, shorts flip flops just are one huge distraction, especially with our young men and women.

    We sit behind the youth group at our church and it is one big social session, texting, flirting, checking each other out, dancing suggestively, it is enough.

    These I said my piece.

  75. London says:

    Charles,
    So I think you’re saying in your experience the devil is attending church and forcing, in your words, “old” men to sit behind the youth group and think led thoughts of children (teenagers).
    That’s an interesting take.

  76. London says:

    Led should have been lewd.

  77. Em says:

    London, you started folks here thinking… for my part, it was something i’d never really considered…
    this morning, having digested a lot of good observations above, i guess i have to conclude that satan can show up at services… because i remember the Upper Room gathering before Christ’s betrayal… pretty sure the Holy Spirit was present, not “indwelling” (Jesus excepted ) at that time and Judas was there – Luke 22:3 …

  78. Em says:

    a thot on lewd thots ๐Ÿ™‚
    a man shouldn’t have to sit it church and concentrate on keeping his eyes and his mind on the pulpit… like a bird dog on quail
    and how about the poor soul caught up in “lewd thots” who’s come to church hoping for a brain washing?
    IMV, it’s not quite the same category as a simple distraction – like the crying baby – dunno, tho, do i?

  79. Bob says:

    Can I remind posters here it is James who explains how we humans are tempted by our own lusts. To obstruct God’s will and desire anywhere, to have “satan” enter us is as simple as following our own desires.

    To look at these young women in a lewd way, or (to make a comparison) say a woman to imagines how much better another man is than her husband, is following our own lust and obstructing the will of God for our life. Therefore satan (while not the Satan) has entered the room.

    But be careful here; myths and mysticism might say when such a thing happens we are being “possessed,” or filled with a demon and need “deliverance.” The only deliverance we need is repentance and forgiveness and if we acted on such temptations we may have to live with the consequences.

    Yep the roaring lion is running to and fro, but so are my own lusts!

  80. the other pastor mike says:

    are we back yet?

  81. ha-filbertz says:

    sadly, I’ve had times when locked like a laser on the pastor’s words I couldn’t make sense of his outline, logic, or conclusions–he simply did a really poor job of preparation and communication. The devil–no…unless he was in the pastor’s office earlier in the week.

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