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37 Responses

  1. Dan from Georgia says:

    Um…first. Hi all! Nothing profound or political to say here. Have a great day!

  2. Dallas says:

    Freedom found in knowing that the end is inevitable in… An Ear, An Ear, The Kingdom for an Ear

    http://dswoager.wordpress.com/2016/10/12/an-ear-an-ear-the-kingdom-for-an-ear/

    Weekend conversation on the topic of when to share information in… Spreading Sorrow

    http://dswoager.wordpress.com/2016/10/14/spreading-sorrow/

  3. Xenia says:

    I want to tell you all a little story.

    40+ years ago, when I was in the Navy, a nice-looking young man asked me out on a date. I accepted, and we had went to a nice restaurant and saw a movie afterwards. He behaved like a perfect gentleman until we got back to the base and he pinned me against a wall and began doing things…. I barely managed to escape and ran through the dark night til I got to my barracks room and locked the door.

    Did I tell anyone? No I did not. For starters, I was embarrassed. It was a sick, degrading episode and I was ashamed of what happened. I know this is an unreasonable reaction, but it’s the truth. I felt guilty. He bought me that nice dinner and all…. I know, unreasonable but there you have it. Also, this was the military of the 1970’s, dominated by men. So I never told anyone, until many decades later, and then only because I wanted to make a point, the same point I am trying to make now.

    I don’t remember the jerk’s name but if I did, and if he happened to be running for office, and if I saw him on TV claiming he never tried to force himself on a woman, I would find myself so angry I would finally speak out.

    Believe these women, folks. Who cares when they finally got angry enough to come forward.

  4. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    Thank you.
    Despite the mockery of some, it is quite normal that when someone is willing to come forth and speak about an abuser,that others are empowered to do the same.

    That’s simply a fact.

    Thank you, again, my friend.

  5. Dan from Georgia says:

    Xenia,

    Thanks!

  6. Dallas says:

    Stories that I have heard here and elsewhere over the last few years have made me think more deeply in my response to allegations of abuse. It’s a small thing, though not so small for me, but I actually took the second half of the baseball season off this year because of a pending rape investigation against the team’s third baseman. It’s a situation that I didn’t feel comfortable dismissing as we often do with uncomfortable situations.

    I may not have to personally speak loudly against someone accused of abuse, but I never want to be in a situation where I am dismissing a victim just because they have become inconvenient.

    Xenia, I am sorry that you had to go through something like that… or that things like that happen period.

  7. Owen says:

    Xenia,

    I am glad you shared, well done.
    And I have to say that, over the years, I have become more and more disgusted with how many members of my gender behave.
    The best I can do is to teach my own son how not to behave that way.

  8. Jean says:

    Of all the ways that a man might deny an accusation by a woman of a sexual assault, this statement is one the most repugnant defenses I’ve every heard:

    “Believe me, she would not be my first choice. That I can tell you. You don’t know. That would not be my first choice.” – Donald Trump

  9. bob1 says:

    GOP= “grab our p*****s

    badabing!

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Since everyone this morning seems to be on one side, let me liven things up a bit.

    So what is the upshot of the Trump issue of how he speaks and treats women?

    We know that Warren Harding, FDR, Ike, JFK, LBJ and Clinton were all whore mongering womanizers who all had ‘affairs’ during their marriages and Presidencies – are we suggesting that we have the history books place an asterisk next to them saying that their presidencies were not valid as they had this issue of not respecting marriage, dishonoring their wives in particular and by their prominent places of power taken advantage of young ladies?

    Because if we are going to say those things disqualify Trump to be President – why not the others in retrospect?

    Heh, Heh – it’s getting close to Costco time and free lunch – ooops, samples (and yes I am that cheap. 😉

  11. John 20:29 says:

    GOP – not fair – remember President Bill on the other side, the ahem blue side 🙂

    Xenia, you’ve conducted yourself well in spite of that jerk and IMHO your story ought to encourage other women subjected to such demeaning to lift themselves up, also…
    many of us have stories to tell of men who are probably not going to like what they’ll face at the judgement… they permeate every walk of life – when i was raising my daughters (remember the cry to come off of your old tired ethics?), we mothers were scorned for being uptight when we warned our young daughters, when we tried to give them a sense of self worth and self respect that had to stand above the libidinous level of adult life… that was the old tired ethic that had held women back for thousands of years or so “they” told our daughters then…

    praying for those on the coast up here… particularly those who, like my daughter and Michael (he’s not that far inland) are not in the best of health as this storm hits us with its wind and water

  12. Dallas says:

    MLD, you brought to mind one of the best points in favor of Trump that I can think of. The man is so completely shameless and arrogant that it is probably impossible to blackmail him.

  13. Owen says:

    MLD,

    I don’t know about invalidating their presidencies (can we even do that? and what good would that do now?). But I would hope that, if we had known about their issues then, perhaps they may not have won.

    But I would also add that (at least to my knowledge) the others you mentioned were not nearly as in-your-face about their indiscretions, either.

  14. Owen says:

    Dallas..
    That comment almost made me chuckle….. if it wasn’t so true…

  15. JFK and LBJ were. Johnson used to show up to Congress every day holding hands with his mistress Helen Gahagan Douglas and both were married.
    A side note it was Douglas who first gave Nixon his nickname Tricky Dock when they ran against each other for Senate in 1950.

  16. I thought this recent blog post was in line with the spirit of the PP:

    https://kurtstaeuble.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/the-near-death-of-common-ground/

    Happy Saturday!

  17. John 20:29 says:

    “We know that Warren Harding, FDR, Ike, JFK, LBJ and Clinton were all whore mongering womanizers who all had ‘affairs’ during their marriages and Presidencies….”

    i don’t know about Harding, but i do know that FDR and Ike would not have been elected to office had their affairs been know (are they proven or just apparent?), but by the time we got to JFK, LBJ and Clinton their conduct was widely rumored … or proven and it seemed to make no difference … unless our election rigging goes back further than we know…

    it is strange that we give lip service to the standards of our grandparents’ day and yet feel like hypocrites if we expect them of our peers … right now i am struggling with 1-Trump’s fixation on “you did worse” and 2-our pastors (some ethical ones) who say the man has repented and turned from his wicked ways…
    well, if he had and he wants the highest office in this land, wouldn’t he shut up and deal with the nation’s issues, not his own? dunno

  18. Col46 says:

    “wouldn’t he shut up and deal with the nation’s issues, not his own?”

    Yes!
    Rather than focus on foreign policy, unemployment, national debt, etc. BOTH candidates are too busy covering their personal tracks…offenses…crimes, and people are actually choosing sides!

    A very sad comentary on the state of the nation.

  19. FDR had several and the right people knew. IKE’s main squeeze in WWII was his driver.

    The funny part is that our grandparents were just like us, but in those days when the young girls got pregnant she was sent away for 9 months. Heck they were still doing that when I was a kid.

    Remember French post cards from the 30s and 40s ? Who was vying those? Grandpa 🙂

  20. John 20:29 says:

    point taken, MLD… the difference is that back then those post cards were tucked away, they weren’t on the coffee table in the living room… and not all grandpas were buying postcards and hanging calendars in their garages… not by a long shot – blushing was still common in America… those Frenchmen considered us all rubes… what exactly makes one a “rube?” and why is that bad? why do we all want to be cool anyway?

  21. Xenia says:

    MLD, we found out about those philandering presidents after the fact, after they were already elected or even out of office. If ordinary people had known, they might not have gotten elected so easily. In any case, they were not giving campaign speeches where they insulted the women they were connected with.

    I don’t expected a candidate to be perfect, either, but at least half-way decent. Is that too much to ask for? This year, I guess it is.

  22. Kay Summersby was IKE’s girlfriend.

  23. Xenia says:

    I remember when I was a kid (fifties, sixties) we got our news from three sources:

    1. Huntley-Brinkley report, which lasted 30 minutes each night.
    2. Local newspaper
    3. The radio, which was mostly pop music and sports with a short news show

    So we just got the broad brush news and no investigative journalism or 24/7 cable news.

    Was that enough or were we living in a fool’s paradise of ignorance? The Vietnam War and Watergate was when all this changed and when we all began to majorly distrust our own government.

  24. Xenia – the reason people didn’t know was at those times the private lives did not matter and were off limits. What mattered were your position on current policies and your capability. Now everything gets thrown out in order to defeat your opponent.

    Why do you think FDR was able to hide the fact he was crippled? Would that be allowed today?

    So question – is anything off limits today in a campaign? Even Michael will not allow family to be brought up here?

  25. Xenia says:

    MLD, right, I agree with you except now we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube so I guess we are responsible for what we do know.

    The only reason I brought up my story was to explain why a woman might wait 40 years to tell a story and that because they waited 40 years doesn’t mean the story isn’t true.

    In my case, there were no women in the chain of command above me to talk to. There were only men, and I couldn’t see myself giving a graphic account of what happened to any of those guys. Also, we didn’t talk about stuff like that back then. While I am sure I had an adequate vocabulary to describe what happened, I would die of shame and embarrassment if I had to explain it to anyone. I recall my own mother blushing with embarrassment when she had to explain the purpose of sanitary napkins. This was in the early 70’s, before erectile disfunction remedies and tampons were topics of TV ads.

  26. This goes back to my asterisk – shouldn’t history note that these guys were unqualified to be President (the charge against Trump) and that because of JFK’s lying and coverup, Richard Nixon should have been declared the winner of the 1960 election since the voters did not know.

  27. John 20:29 says:

    from what i’ve heard, if Xenia had boldly gone to a superior officer – even a chaplain, perhaps – her situation would have been far more traumatic than what she’s related…
    Xenia (IMHO) might have an autobiography to write that would inspire young Christian women – really serious about this… but – dunno, do i?…

    i pray that this exposure of Trump’s behavior will have a positive effect on the nation – gross and groping men = creeps? … never having been a guy it is hard to visualize how that behavior makes one feel successful … they always seemed insecure and cowardly to me…
    but dunno, do i?

  28. j2theperson says:

    At least Republicans seem to be wrestling with these issues to some degree. I believe that it’s very possible that Donald Trump has outright raped women, and it’s absolutely horrible. I don’t think I can vote for him for that reason.

    But, I don’t see Democrats wrestling with all of the rape covering-up behavior that Hillary Clinton has engaged in. Men like Trump get away with rape and sexual assault because of the behavior of people like Hillary, and this also is absolutely horrible.

    Between the two of them there is no better choice as it relates to this issue.

  29. Erunner says:

    I’m not convinced these women coming out against Trump are telling the truth. It appears some of the stories aren’t adding up. As much as I dislike Trump I’m not going to believe these women until there is proof he did these things. That’s hard if it becomes a he said she said situation.

    Trump’s comments about women and the video tape are disgusting in and of themselves and give me an idea the type of man Trump is. He’s been married three times and has had at least one affair.

    The 20/20 story last night on the fake Virginia university rape that took the nation by storm as reported by Rolling Stone magazine shows there are times when women simply make things up. That in no way minimizes the rape culture that is alive and well among colleges and society in general. ABC was wise in pointing this out and offering help to women who have been raped or abused sexually.

    I imagine Trump is capable of a lot on top of what has been exposed via the video and his own words. I’m not convinced these women are proof positive though.

    It’s sad watching Sean Hannity interviewing the women who had issues with Bill Clinton while CNN has done wall to wall coverage of the women who have been coming forward accusing Trump.

    I never thought I’d live to see an election like this. I do not say any of the above lightly. Two of the most important women in my life have suffered from abuse.

  30. Xenia says:

    I think it is indicative of this bizarre election that the heretic Mormon Glenn Beck sounds more like a Christian than my old Calvary Chapel pastors.

  31. Dan from Georgia says:

    Xenia (30) … I saw his comments…made sense to me. Not sure why some evangelical leaders don’t get it.

  32. Anne says:

    IMO, There is a huge difference between politicians’ consensual philandering and the one boasting about unsolicited sexual advances toward women. Being clear, I do not condone the first, the second in many cases is criminal.

  33. Em ... again says:

    when a woman tells a man, “stop” and he doesn’t that’s assault… and there is a category of males who’ve been taught – maybe at daddy’s knee – “there are girls who do and girls who don’t” … including, sadly, in some churches
    maybe a better truism would have been that there are sorry excuses for manhood who do and then there are gentlemen
    sometimes we women don’t say anything because we know that the man/men who love us would respond and they’d be the ones who’d pay the price, not the perp
    sadly, we’ve lived for many generations in a social construct that said, “she asked for it” by the way she talked, acted, dressed – whatever… most of us have been in situations where we’ve seen behavior that sends mixed messages, but that is like excusing the guy who mugged you and stole your wallet because you asked for it by walking down that dark, deserted street…
    it is possible, in most cases, to walk a fine line, IF we women have a strong sense of self worth and self esteem – in most cases… i don’t see the problem ever going away and our best defense is to raise our daughters to be wise and strong and street smart – in most cases
    God keep the dear women who’ve been demeaned and deeply wounded by male animals without consciences or discernment

  34. London says:

    Michael,
    Are you watching Luke cage?

  35. Michael says:

    London,

    No, I rarely watch TV other than sports.
    I’ve heard it’s good, though.

  36. London says:

    It’s good, but slow moving. They are doing a good job with character development, and the acting is first rate, but it’s taking a long time to tell the story. I think I’m going to skip to the last episode and see what happens.

  37. Michael says:

    I’ll check it out when I’m done with my Civil War obsession… 🙂

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