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63 Responses

  1. Dan from Georgia says:

    Wife: Dan, can you watch the dog for a while?
    Me: No, I’ll just record him and watch him later…

  2. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thanks Josh!

  3. Captain Kevin says:

    Dan 🙂

  4. Em says:

    There really isnt an appropriate response to Michael’s 11:25 link, in my view other than it is tragic… Tragic from many facets… However, is there one target to blame? I don’t think there is… Nor is there one solution, short of our Lord’s return….
    or so it seems to me

  5. Michael says:

    There’s an easy solution…quit separating families.

  6. Em says:

    Michael, I know where your heart is…. the snag is the word “easy.” Bureaucracy doesn’t know the word.
    … I am watching my daughter deal with the IRS. The state sent a payment to a healthcare company and it was credited to her account. She has never had an account with this company. The state has no record of her having one and yet she cannot get her tax refund until SHE reimburses the state the amount paid to this company. No, it makes no sense and it isn’t easy, either….
    It seems as if the world is coming apart at the seams…. So many changes that seem to have their roots in a change in the global dynamic – the shrinking world that is crowding historic and not homogeneous peoples into one big herd.. ? …. dunno

  7. Michael says:

    Em,

    Bureaucracy makes changes when it wants to…we should get your daughter some publicity.

    After reading the comments on the deaths of the refuge seeker and Bourdain on Breitbart, I have no hope for this world but the Second Coming…

  8. Jim says:

    “There’s an easy solution…quit separating families.”

    I heard the argument on fox news this week- illegal immigrants are breaking the law, law enforcement separates families all day every day when they put parents in jail, what’s the difference?

    My argument is that everything the govt does is immoral, while the dem politician seemed to think that criminality should be means tested based on parental status???

    Is there a more rational apologetic?

  9. Michael says:

    I’m going to say this for about the 200th time.

    Turning yourself in to border authorities is the LEGAL way to apply for asylum.

    Jim, I don’t believe everything government does is immoral or has to be.

  10. Jim says:

    Sorry, I missed the first 199 times. I’m completely ignorant on the issue, as I ascribe to the imaginary line on a map theory. I was presenting my gov view as one of the irrational ones, as its so far removed from mainstream.

    So anyway, the answer is that asylum seekers aren’t criminals, which makes sense. Thanks.

  11. Michael says:

    Jim,

    My apologies for my rancor.

    I’ve just gone over this ground so many times only to have Fox News necessitate doing it again…

  12. Em says:

    I think (FWIW) both Jim and Michael are making some valid points…
    It is true that presenting yourself at the border and asking for asylum is the legal procedure. But once in and assigned a court hearing date most just disappear into the population, i understand. Perhaps we all would do that, i don’t know. So the majority of asylum immigrants do game the system and that is illegal…

    Our “elected” politicians seem to be an ineffectual, elite group of posers. When they do pass laws their work seems only to deepen the red tape morass. My reference to my daughter’s dilemma above, the IRS person let slip that the state had made this mistake on other citizens, so…. Isn’t it obvious that it is the healthcare company that owes the state some money? Maybe quite a bit? Don’t under estimate political influence is my takeaway. I should add that my daughter is filling out reams of forms to avoid reimbursing the state. But it is not “easy.” She thinks that since the amount is a little under $ 300, they are banking on folks just paying up and going away…
    She’ll probably kill me for sharing her business and i do have to say that over the years all the IRS people that ive had to deal with were honest, courteous and helpful, so, yes, bureaucrat does not always equal bad. 😯

  13. Jim says:

    No worries Michael. I’ve blanked on the asylum part of the equation. I don’t recall it being a part of the conversation on fox, as the neither the politician or the talking head made that part of the argument.

  14. Jim says:

    Em,I wasn’t making a point. My view is open borders/no welfare.

  15. Michael says:

    Yes, they sometimes disappear.
    That might have something to do with the fact that we’re processing legal requests for migrants rather slowly.

    For example …we are now processing legal requests from Mexico…from 1993.

  16. Em says:

    Sorry i misstated your comment, Jim
    It’s good to consider the immigration issue facing this nation on the PhxP, i think – this is a place where the kind hearted gather, IMV
    But somehow, no one (not referring to folks here) is addressing the real problem, which is the drug consumption and the resultant gang problems… We might be amazed if we knew how many nations have their fingers in that dirt… IMNSHO

  17. bob1 says:

    #11
    My argument is that everything the govt does is immoral,
    Wow. What a boneheaded thing to say. Enjoy the rest of the crackpots who believe that.

    Is there a more rational apologetic?
    Damn near anything makes for a more “rational apologetic” than that!

  18. Jim says:

    Thanks bob1. I’ve been called a bonehead, so I’m sure I’ll be changing my view, based on your well reasoned argument.

    I think that Michael sometime confuses me for a republican, so it was merely a reminder.

    I do sometimes argue to the point, but will only argue with tax payers. If you fit the bill and want to do more than call names, I’m up for it. I’m not up for insulting each other.

  19. Dan from Georgia says:

    hey gang,

    Kumbaya time. I’m glad to be here because it’s usually a safe place. I’m not the a courtesy cop, but let’s cut the insults.

    BTW, the only thing I will insult is the song “Christmas Shoes” by Newsong.

    #boythatwasoutofleftfield

  20. j2theperson says:

    Are there traditional liturgical churches that accept women in leadership but do not also affirm gay marriage? I feel like as a woman I’m stuck between choosing between churches that actually value my presence and want my participation but also hold beliefs I view as unsupported by scripture and churches that view me as worthless because of my gender. And I’ve probably hopelessly narrowed my options because I’m not an evangelical and strongly prefer a traditional liturgy because I can’t handle a 45 minute sermon and 30 minutes of overly emotional 3 chord worship music.

  21. Michael says:

    j2,

    Yes.

    Some Anglican churches ordain women while not affirming gay marriage.

  22. Michael says:

    Just a note here about Jim…I forget that not everyone here has been here for fifteen years.

    Jim is a (very) consistent libertarian.

    He and I go way back and he is one of the finest men I’ve been privileged to meet on this journey.

    Politics brings out the worst in all of us…all the more reason to spend most of our time on things we hold in common..

  23. j2theperson says:

    I’m just annoyed. Our former pastor was not necessarily more “conservative” but he was basically stuck back several centuries ago. He wrote all his sermons in Latin (but thankfully delivered them in English). Modern politics just never came up. It was great. Our current pastor is all about present society. He and most of the people at church are all really nice, but we’re bleeding conservative members and it’s hurtful that nobody seems to really care about them. It was there church too. Why make church unwelcoming to people who were dedicated and faithful involved members for years just to make room for the statistically very few homosexuals who consider themselves Christians and want to go to church.

  24. Michael says:

    j2,

    I couldn’t agree with you more…and that’s why the Anglican communion is circling the drain.

  25. j2theperson says:

    There’s another nearby church in our diocese that is supposedly more conservative. We’ll probably end up going there. But what happens when they get a new pastor who also is a flaming progressive?

  26. Michael says:

    j2,

    Again, I completely agree…and why I’m going through with ordination even though I’m old. 🙂

  27. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    J2, there are 2 Lutheran groups the split from the insanity of the ELCA who I think kept their female clergy.
    The NALC = North American Lutheran Church
    The LCMC = Lutheran Congregations in Missions for Christ.

  28. Jim says:

    Thanks Michael, that was far too kind. I’ve read here since 2006, and try to not comment often. This is the only place on the internet that I ever comment, except for the rare one liner in response to a pic of my grandkids on FB. When I do comment here, I often tick people off, so I’m trying to include disclaimers that acknowledge that I understand that my views are on the fringe. Not Alex Jones fringe, just not typically heard.

    I love you, I love this place, and I love the people here, even those I disagree with. I also like to debate, so there’s that…

    I’m unnaturally curious, and I’m here to learn and to be inspired, and this place has delivered more than I ever anticipated on both.

    Last week someone named anon (I think) called me mr know it all, always right, etc, and I’ll own that. I’ll just say that I’m trying, and I delete far more comments than I post. My feelings aren’t easily hurt, but I don’t to cause others grief.

  29. j2theperson says:

    The whole way gay rights seems to piggy back on women’s rights annoys me. They’re such different issues and in some respects it just looks like guys trying to take advantage of women. On the one hand, I’m fairly sympathetic to what gay people face, but at the same time it seems very possible that gays getting all the rights and social standing that they want could end up ultimately being harmful to women as a whole.

  30. j2theperson says:

    Thanks, mld. I was unaware those synod existed.

  31. Jim says:

    *dont want to cause…

  32. Michael says:

    Jim,

    Most of us haven’t been exposed to consistent (or any) libertarian thought so it can be a shock to the system.

    I stand by what I said…you’re a hell of a good man and I’m grateful for you.

  33. Michael says:

    j2,

    My diocese has yet to decode on womens ordination, but it has decided on gay marriage.

    As i said on my podcast, I’m tired of talking about the latter…if gays want to attend church there are plenty that welcome them completely.

    Those churches are close to empty, which tells me another agenda is afoot…

  34. Dan from Georgia says:

    Michael and Jim,

    I don’t fret when people of differing politics mingle with me. One reason I shy away from debate, though, is because many times people attack the person (insults, for example) rather than debate a point or view. That usually doesn’t happen here btw.

  35. Duane Arnold says:

    j2

    From my perspective women’s ordination and the gay issue are completely different in every way. The problem, however, is that many remember that women’s ordination started as an “option” then slowly became a litmus test of inclusivity, and ultimately, became a required part of the belief system for those being ordained. While the gay issue is completely different, the fear is that the same administrative path is being followed and will yield the same result.

  36. Michael says:

    Dan,

    I hear you.
    I just now almost allowed myself to get sucked in to an immigration issue debate on Facebook…but in this climate nothing good can come of it.

  37. Michael says:

    Duane,

    Good point…and you’re right.

  38. j2theperson says:

    It’s not like women’s ordination necessarily means a lot to me. The issue is more that churches that don’t ordain women don’t give women a full place in other areas of the church. My church makes a concerted effort to get a diverse group of people on the vestry. It doesn’t just have one token woman in the vestry. It’s basically 50/50 men and women. Churches that do not ordain women, by and large, don’t make an effort to have and are not welcoming to women serving in non-pastoral positions that scripture literally speaks nothing about. And this even though typically women make up over 50% of church attendees/members, but their representation on governing boards and committees is nowhere near that–except in churches that also ordain women.

  39. j2theperson says:

    If I found a liturgical church that did not ordain women but had equal representation in the governing board and respected the women who served throughout the church and valued their opinions and contributions then I’d definitely check it out and be open to going there regardless ever though they didn’t ordain women.

  40. Michael says:

    j2,

    While I tend toward egalitarianism, I’ll go with the decision of the dioceses on the matter.

    If we don’t ordain women to the priesthood then we’ll have a responsibility to bring women into other leadership positions to ensure representation.

  41. Jim says:

    Dan, I interact with my neighbors frequently, and the worst reaction I’ve received when telling people what I actually believe is just a question mark face or a you have three heads face. The internet is different.

  42. j2theperson says:

    Yeah, I totally get that. I don’t find the non-ordination of women to be offensive. There are certainly good and reasonable biblical arguments to be made for not doing so. I just wish that everyone would, like you, then make an effort to bring women fully into all the other areas of the church where they could serve.

  43. Dan from Georgia says:

    Jim, yeah people are much more likely to engage/debate/flame each other online…I know I do. Easier to do so when you are kind of anonymous than face to face.

  44. Em says:

    I see nothing wrong with a homosexual attending service, quietly seeking a relationship with God. May God forgive us if we chase them away. HOWEVER, if they come thru the doors demanding to be celebrated and accepted as gay, that is a totally issue….
    Many a pew sitter hides their personal sins, knowing their mortal condition is not to be celebrated…. If a fella came thru the doors with 2 wives expecting his amorous proclivity to be celebrated, would there be anything to debate? hmmm… perhaps… in some gatherings… 😒
    We have been taught that God created woman to be the help mate of the man. Then we’ve extrapolated from that that the woman is a lesser being. Ahem… it wasn’t woman that needed a helper. 😳 That said, if a woman is bearing children and raising them, traditionally man has been tasked with providing… Today’s world is not conducive to that dynamic, so i’m sitting here wondering…
    How does a church support the God designed family dynamic all the while giving the modern, often alone, woman the respect she’s earned and, perhaps the support she needs? Without compromising His laws, God is still a common sense God… Jesus had no problem with his hungry followers grabbing a handful of grain as the walked thru a field on the Sabbath…
    Grace never compromised His holiness…. we need wisdom today like never before … IMHO

  45. Michael says:

    i pastor individuals and families, not identifiable people groups.
    The liturgy leads us all through confession, repentance, and absolution…including the pastor/priest.

    I’m just going to do “normal” historic Anglicanism and let other folks do their thing somewhere else…

  46. Em says:

    “I pastor individuals and families, not identifiable groups…” There’s a whole lot of wisdom defined in those words, i think. 😇

  47. Michael says:

    Em,

    I hope it’s wisdom and not just exhaustion with cultural demands…

  48. Em says:

    Michael,, are there any instances of our Lord ministering to groups? Crowds, yes, but groups?

  49. bob1 says:

    Jim,

    My apologies to you for my harsh use of language.

    I didn’t realize you were libertarian. Doesn’t excuse my lack of manners, however.

    Have you heard of a Christian libertarian writer, Doug Bandow?

    Blessings to you and everyone on here.

  50. Michael says:

    Well… He lectured the Pharisee’s, but they didn’t consider it ministry. 🙂

    God does mention some groups throughout Scripture, but they are identified by situation such as the poor, the blind, the oppressed, the hungry, etc.

    He called us to that ministry…

  51. Michael says:

    bob1,

    It’s all good… I’m glad you’re here and speaking…

  52. Em says:

    When i was a child i asked my grandmother what was going to happen when we’d pumped all the oil out of the earth….
    Now i’m watching kilauea and wondering if the earth can turn itself inside out…. ?
    Remembering Hawaii and Guatemala in prayer these days… Us, too as we’re a stone’s throw from the Washington State volcano predicted to be the next to blow… Actually, i’m more concerned about wildfires, but do you ever watch the kilauea show and think, “we’re sitting on that stuff?” How do atheists function? I’m guessing denial is their coping mechanism..😉
    Just taking advantage of open blog hospitality this afternoon…
    God keep

  53. Jim says:

    Bob1,

    Thanks for your response. No worries on my end. I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on my communication style. I know who Doug is from cato, but I’m not aware of his views. Libers are a big tent, and I’m on the fringe of the fringe…

  54. Duane Arnold says:

    #57 Jim

    Are you aware of Liberty Fund?

  55. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think everyone must be out getting saved again at the Greg Laurie thing.

  56. Jim says:

    Duane, no. I’ll google it.

  57. dusty says:

    remember in prayer

    David H – I could use a prayer. I was diagnosed with Bell’s Palsy Thursday night. Right side of my face is paralyzed. Prednisone and an antiviral.

    Xenia- chihuahua Lilly passed away

    Linnea – Would you please pray for my niece, Danielle? She is living a lifestyle that has landed her in jail several times, is living homeless, and she will certainly die if she is not plucked from this fire.
    Remarkably, a pastor bailed her out of jail the first time and tried to steer her to a Christian rehab program, but she would have none of it.
    Her mother, my sister-in-law, doesn’t know where she is, but when she saw her last could see the physical changes brought on by the drugs. Please pray also for God’s comfort for Danielle’s Mom, Karen. Thank you…

    Duane – friend , Stephen, has passed away

    Vicki McClellan – I’ve been struggling since my husband passed. But I have been angry at God for not answering my prayers and healing him. After all, the kids and grandkids and I still need him here. Help me understand.

    filbertz – we will be marking our son Drew’s death shortly–two years ago May first

    Bart – I was fired from my job last summer. I’m in sales, upon post operative inspection of the 8 inches they removed; a malignant 2mm tumor was discovered and further tests showed the cancer had spread to 1 lymphnode. My prognosis is good, my oncologist is confident, this chemo treatment has a very good success rate
    -finished chemo
    – my wife’s mom has passed into heaven.
    -my wife is diagnosed with bilateral pneumonia, human Neuro virus and because all this is putting stress on the heart, congenital heart failure.

    Xenia -Please pray for my best friend and neighbor who is very weak and sick with some mystery ailment the doctor’s can’t identify. She is fearing for her life. Her name is Susan.

    Linnea – – getting over shingles, which in and of itself was a trial, but remain exhausted and now depressed. This coupled with a much expanded role in my job leaves me…well, more exhausted and depressed. Please pray that God would enable me to handle the new responsibilities or move me to another position.

    captain kevin – I’m in dire need of mental and spiritual strength. I’m ready to take a 20 year nap.

    J2theperson – please pray for my church. I can’t go into specifics now, but things are going very wrong right now

    Captain Kevin – My blood pressure is too high, causing my left ventricle to work too hard. Dr. added a second BP med and was genuinely concerned.,fibromyalgia, depression
    Michael – heart aneurysm and a bad valve, bad back and neck issues.

    The New Victor – my mother was moved to icu

    j2theperson – There’s a guy who is, wrongly, accusing our church of gross financial mismanagement if not outright illegality. There is no evidence his accusations are true and we actually seem to be on solid financial footing; however, we’ve already had at least one person leave the church because of him and there are quite a few people concerned about his accusations. Please pray he does not cause serious damage to our congregation, that people will recognise him for what he is, and that we will come out stronger for having gone through this.

    Captain Kevin – Please pray for my oldest daughter. She is separated from her husband. This is probably the 3rd time in the 3 years they’ve been married. I’m not sure who is more at fault or if there is any abuse, so I just pray for God’s will. They are believers, I think.

    brian – Not really asking for prayer just a thought. I will be getting some injections because of a back injury and will be talking with a surgeon concerning a disc fusion. My main prayer use this to help me be a better teacher and Christian, thanks.

    JD – Marshal whose mother told him that she doesn’t love him

    John 20:29- my cousin in barring a miracle he’s entering the final stages of his cancer… prayers have been appreciated and heard. .. They’ve brought him some good months. Jerry married his high school sweetheart and prayer for her and their 3 children (adults with families) would be so welcome now. They’ve been a close couple and now, even tho she is a Believer, she will face growing old without her life partner…

    JoelG – filing for custody of my 2 younger teenagers. I found hundreds of explicit photos of my youngest daughter that I’m sure have been shared.
    -My ex, daughter and I met to talk, discipline and love on our daughter. We’re all in the same page moving forward and she will be getting counseling.

    John 20:29 – i have a son dealing with a gorgeous 16 year old daughter who is trying to come to terms with womanhood and who is in the custody of her bi-polar mother,

    Linnea – Jon and Sarah. Please pray that they would know God’s love and would follow Him out of horrible lifestyles to freedom.

    London- my mom who had surgery for pancreatic cancer and back surgery for three fractures in her spine. Caretaking is hard work at times and it seems that I lose track of time pretty easily

    the new Victor – pray for God’s protection and mercy upon my children, who’ve been through a lot, including witnessing domestic violence in the other home, and that I am strong and engaged enough to lead them so they don’t turn out like the sons of Eli.

    Bob Sweat – we are asking God to open a door to a small church somewhere in the US who want a pastor to love them and faithfully teach the Word.

    Michael, Rick, Joel, Dan, capt. Kevin, Owen – wand to hear from God in their prayer life

    JTK- ongoing back issue.

    David H – Aunt Ramona has Adenocarcinoma primary lung cancer.

    Victor- chronic back pain

    Lurkie Loo – dear friend with inoperable Stage 4 glioblastoma (brain cancer). She is 44.

    surfer51 (david) “stage four” prostate cancer

    John 20:29 – cousin Jerry has prostate cancer

    Lennea- sister salvation and cancer

    Paige- 4 boys to be pleasing to God

    Captain kevin – new direction for he and his wife

    Dan -new direction for he and wife, looking for a new church

  58. dusty says:

    lost the prayer list in spam again, can some? thank you!

  59. dusty says:

    lost the prayer list in spam again, can someone get it out? thank you!

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