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58 Responses

  1. Anonymouse says:

    https://youtu.be/k4RmsoxAc80

    I hate potentially sounding like a nut, but hear this SBC guy about LGBT plans to infiltrate churches.

    The end has a good warning for parents and grandparents about the dangers of our younger family members from Lot.

    Thank you for caring about this issue, Michael.

  2. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    It’s not just the the opportunist with peer Graham is doing this…it’s that 300 who signed on with him.
    The blowback to this will take time, but it will be fierce…

  3. Michael says:

    Anonymous,

    I really don’t want to care about it…I’m big on personal freedom and privacy.
    However, the damage that is being done to kids is enormous…I have a theory or two that it’s far worse than many of us think…

  4. Josh says:

    When I saw the dude had printed out hundreds of internet pages, I knew I did not want to hear anything else from him.

    Love those around you. Don’t be afraid. Pray that God give you wisdom to act gracefully in trying times. Trust that He has it under control.

  5. Kevin H says:

    Michael,

    Yes it is more than just Graham. Every pastor and Christian leader who signs onto and carries out this type of “special prayer” used as a political weapon is wholly culpable for their own actions and the influence it has on others to commit to such actions and attitudes. Some big names involved – Robert Jeffress, James Dobson, Greg Laurie, David Jeremiah, some guy named Skip that you may have heard of, etc., etc., etc. Some of them quite predictable. Graham as the initiator and the biggest name of all, is the ring leader of this harmful rubbish.

  6. Duane Arnold says:

    “It’s taken us a long time to get here, in this plummet from Francis Schaeffer to Glenn Beck. In order to be this gullible, American Christians have had to endure years of vacuous talk about undefined “revival” and “turning America back to God” that was less about anything uniquely Christian than about, at best, a generically theistic civil religion and, at worst, some partisan political movement.”

    “Rather than cultivating a Christian vision of justice and the common good (which would have, by necessity, been nuanced enough to put us sometimes at odds with our political allies), we’ve relied on populist God-and-country sloganeering and outrage-generating talking heads. We’ve tolerated heresy and buffoonery in our leadership as long as with it there is sufficient political “conservatism” and a sufficient commercial venue to sell our books and products.”

    Russell Moore

  7. Josh says:

    The funniest thing is happening right now in the SBC. They are trying to generate a controversy where egalitarians are trying to take over. It would be hilarious if so many goofs wouldn’t take the bait and pick up the pitchforks.

    They’ve decided Beth Moore is the enemy, despite the fact that she has been a faithful Southern Baptist for over 60 years, does not want to be a pastor or convention leader in any way. Still, can’t let facts get in the way. They’ve got an angry mob to stir up, and if one woman has to be sacrificed along the way, so be it!

  8. Michael says:

    Russell Moore is a national treasure…

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Why is anyone hot and bothered what other people do in their churches?
    My church doesn’t engage in such nonsense, so what do I care – why do you.

    Teaching about Trump in evangelical churches on a Sunday morning may be less harmful than the nonsense I hear from many of those churches on a regular Sunday.

    Keep your own church faithful.

  10. Michael says:

    “Why is anyone hot and bothered what other people do in their churches?”
    Because these men have managed to be seen as representatives of all of American Christianity, that’s why.

  11. Josh says:

    “Teaching about Trump in evangelical churches on a Sunday morning may be less harmful than the nonsense I hear from many of those churches on a regular Sunday.”

    MLD has a point.

  12. Michael says:

    One possible answer to that prayer meeting…

    “On an appointed day Herod put on his royal robes, took his seat upon the throne, and delivered an oration to them.And the people were shouting, “The voice of a god, and not of a man!”Immediately an angel of the Lord struck him down, because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and breathed his last.”
    (Acts 12:20–23 ESV)

    I kid because I care…

  13. Kevin H says:

    “Why is anyone hot and bothered what other people do in their churches?”

    Yes, our own church is our first concern. But shouldn’t there be some level of concern whenever we’re aware of our fellow Christian brothers and sisters being led and influenced wrongly within their churches, no matter what the wrong may be?

    And further to the point, this is much bigger than what is happening in other churches. This is something that is being represented as Christianity to the entire nation due to it’s visibility. And it drags Christ’s name through the mud….. and that is disturbing to me and hope would be disturbing to other Christians, too. Let people form a negative picture of Christianity because the gospel is offensive. Let’s not give legitimate reasons to add to their poor view.

  14. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael, I have never met a person who thinks they or this is representative of all Christianity.

    I get all hot and bothered that there are churches that don’t follow the liturgy, don’t observe the church caledar, feasts and festivals (yesterday was Ascension and today the Visitation) and no one gives a rip.

    So why can’t Trumpism just be another form of Christian expression and we move on?

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Kevin H,
    I don’t know how Trumpism drags Jesus’ name through the mud.
    Would it be similar to calling all who hold to rapture theology dragging Jesus’ name through the mud for just as strong support for the modern day nation of Israel?

  16. Kevin H says:

    MLD,

    When you’re speaking of rapture theology, you are speaking of theological differences within the church. They are honest differences of interpretive belief within the realm of orthodox Christianity. Yes, sometimes things can be taken to an unhealthy extreme, such as when everything that modern day Israel does gets supported, even when they do wrongful things.

    However, Trumpism, or in this particular case when churches and Christians are being rallied to pray against the enemies of President Trump, which are clearly understood to be those who oppose him politically, then the whole thing is based on a sinful conflation of church and politicized prayer. There is little comparison to legitimate theological disagreements.

  17. Em says:

    Kevin H @ 12:16 good thoughts to ponder… IMHO
    further, it occurs to me that we are setting up a brand of Christianity that will meld well with the anti-christ’s agenda – only my viewpoint as i think also that Israel’s orthodox are sitting ducks for such a plan also… as are Muslims

    That said, i’ll let God prove the hearts of the Christians who are praying for Trump

    “,,,,,In this way Jesus Christ earns all the glory, and His reputation is not obscured by the questionable judgment of over-zealous Christians attempting to play power politics in His name. Those who vainly strive to establish the kingdom of God on earth during the Church Age overlook this principle of invisible historical impact. As a good citizen (made better by his Christianity) the believer contributes positively to his nation, he does not crusade in the name of Christianity to remake his nation in the image of his personal faith (Rom. 13:1-7 – with the caveat that one does not break God’s known laws when doing so)”
    quoted from “The Divine Outline of History,” the writings of the late R.B. Thieme in 1989 with apologies to those who find the man was an offensive leader….

  18. Kevin H says:

    Em,

    I’m sure that many will pray for Trump this Sunday with a pure spirit. Many likely already do so. The difficulty is in how this this special time of prayer is being promoted – one that is focused against Trump’s enemies who are “attacking” him.

    I also have no illusions that our work as Christians here on earth is going to establish God’s kingdom in it’s fullness. However, we are still commanded to seek His Kingdom first, and that means our first focus should be on spreading the gospel and being concerned with others before ourselves and helping those in need and so on.

  19. Michael says:

    “So why can’t Trumpism just be another form of Christian expression and we move on?”

    In 18 years online that is the single most ridiculous question in PhxP history.

  20. Kevin H says:

    Michael is more blunt than me. 🙂

  21. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    Probably… 😉

  22. Michael says:

    The reality here is that this is a prayer meeting called against other members of the Body of Christ who oppose Trump on biblical and ethical grounds.

    Franklin is simply a master opportunist and many of the pastors following him are as well.
    They are piling on the gravy train even if it’s splits more deeply the church Christ died for and Trump whores out.

    I have no problem being identified as their enemy.

    When the winds of opportunity blow a different direction may they all be shipwrecked.

  23. bob1 says:

    In 18 years online that is the single most ridiculous question in PhxP history.-

    Not to mention stooooopid.

  24. Michael says:

    There is no profit in these discussions. They all turn into brawls. The world is becoming a more unfamiliar place to me every day…

  25. Dan from Georgia says:

    Back in the late 1980s, as a brand new, puffy, and impressionable Christian, I was led to believe that morality is all that mattered in public life, in politics, etc in regards to being a Christian. Character mattered, I was told repeatedly, by the like of James Dobson, for example. This was around the time of Bill Clinton running for President.

    Now the likes of Falwell Jr., Dobson, Bakker, etc., flat out turn a blind eye to issues of morality all in the name of outlawing abortion. They are using Donald Trump, plain and simple. They have lost their moral authority, no question about it.

    Pray for Donald Trump? Sure, I have no problem with that. I will do so. However, I will not engage in any partisan, political grandstanding on the part of some fellow believers, masquerading as some spiritual endeavor.

    I have no issues with President Trump. He is what he is. My problem is with some believers, see Charisma for example, who have elevated him to some kind of level that he doesn’t belong. Their elevation of him to some kind of prophet and their almost orgasmic adulation of him is sickening.

  26. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    You guys are such hypocrites I laughed so hard I pissed my pants. According to the standard laid out by this blog, confession to the creeds is what makes you a Christian church. Because some want to pray for the President in the fashion they choose does not lessen who they are.
    Y’all are doing the same thing, here on a blog listed as a community of faith – bashing your political opponents.
    Trump Derangement Syndrom has taken you guys away from what is important.

    I just wonder if we will see similar outcries here later in the election cycle when all the black churches are hosting the liberals to be their Sunday morning speakers, to present their political platforms? – I doubt it.

  27. Dan from Georgia says:

    Michael, I see my comment posted right after yours. I’m not interested in a brawl either, but just had to vent.

    Done venting.

  28. Michael says:

    MLD,
    The premise for this prayer meeting is that opposition to Trump is opposition to God.
    That is where I lose it.
    My tradition prays for leadership every day and social media is not involved.
    Your other issue should be addressed with your urologist.

  29. Michael says:

    Dan,
    Venting is good and occasionally holy.
    It’s all good…

  30. Em says:

    Kevin @ 1:17…. Looks to me like we agree…
    Sounds like song lyrics LOL 🙆

    Also…
    Should we start a go fund me to buy MLD a change of clothes?

  31. Kevin H says:

    MLD,

    The irony is that what many of us are saying here is with little concern or intent to “bash political opponents”. Rather the concern and intent is with an unrighteousness we see happening in the church. Our concern is with that unrighteousness, not with who are our “political opponents”.

    And you know what else, you probably wouldn’t see much of an outcry here about black churches hosting political liberals in the pulpit and it has nothing to do hypocrisy or politics. Rather, the demographics here lean highly toward those who are white and evangelical or ex-evangelical and conservative, theologically and politically. And so, being that it wouldn’t be something that would fall within our regular circles of interaction, it’s just not something we would be as likely to converse about.

    But I must admit, it is a bit amusing seeing you coming to the aid of evangelicals because you yourself like Trump. The same evangelicals that most other times you love to bash.

  32. Kevin H says:

    “Your other issue should be addressed with your urologist.”

    Now that was a good one. 😆

    Em – Maybe Michael can add the request on those occassional posts where he asks for support.

  33. Dan from Georgia says:

    In the end my conscience is clear about who I did or didn’t vote for in the last Presidential Election. And I have God’s Word to back me up in honoring my conscience.

    Enough said.

  34. bob1 says:

    Did MLD really pee his pants?

    Depends.

  35. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Kevin, I don’t particularly like Trump, I didn’t vote for him (I abstained on the presidential line) and there is a good chance I will do the same in 2020 as I see the presidential races as corrupt.
    You would be hard press to find any statements of mine, here or on FB that support Trump. I mock those who have lost their minds and integrity in their anti Trumpism.

    Compared to the left online, I do sometimes find Trump as the sane one in the room. Look how you all react to Franklin where out of at least 50,000 to 100,000 conservative evangelical pastors in this country, he has swayed only 300 to join him.

  36. Michael says:

    I have been calling out Graham for at least 15 years.
    He only deemed those 300 important enough to name…he doesn’t give a damn about small town preachers.

  37. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The point is, on your side I have not heard any call to pray for brother Franklin who seems to have gone astray with his prayer request.
    No, it has been all judgment and vitriol.

    Why isn’t brother Franklin worthy of our love and concern while he goes through this period? Why the scorn?

    I am sure that if a Russell Moore rally churches to pray for the demise of the Trump, his administration and his supporters we would hear nothing but applause.

  38. Michael says:

    MLD,

    You’re just being MLD now.
    I’m never going to be the one calling for prayer for Frankie.
    He could ask the talking cow next to where he forced his parents to be buried…

    I don’t think Russell Moore would do such a thing…he actually seems to pay attention to Scripture…

  39. Duane Arnold says:

    I’ll pray for Franklin Graham… that he repents.

  40. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well I can assure you, Sunday will come and go and it will be another Christian left nothing burger. By the 4th no one will remember or comment and I will bet that of the 300, 99% will not do “a day of prayer” – they will toss up a quick prayer for Donald and that will be the end because evangelical preachers do not give up their time to shine in the pulpit for anything.
    And you will have lathered up over nothing.
    The End

  41. Em says:

    “…evangelical preachers do not give up their time to shine in the pulpit for anything..”. ? MLD, your brush is dangerously broad..

  42. Xenia says:

    In our household, the President gets prayed for on Thursday, along with the Governor and the Mayor.

    That is sufficient.

  43. bob1 says:

    Xenia’s got the right balance.

  44. Michael says:

    Live stream of Rachel Held Evan’s funeral.

    https://rachelheldevans.com/funeral

  45. CM says:

    Cognitive dissonance alert….

    Franklin Graham and his 300 court evangelical Trump ball-washers are going to be praying against Trump’s enemies June 2nd.

    However, on May 31st, Trump tweeted the following:

    “As we celebrate LGBT Pride Month and recognize the outstanding contributions LGBT people have made to our great Nation, let us also stand in solidarity with the many LGBT people who live in dozens of countries worldwide that punish, imprison, or even execute individuals….”

    I am going to set back and see all these court evangelicals and the Trump-lovers on the Christian right twist themselves into knots about this one. For added fun, bring this disconnect to them and see how they react. Or see the cognitive dissonance on their faces like a very bad migraine…

  46. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Today is the beginning of the end – prayermagedden.
    See you all in the world to come!

  47. Dan from Georgia says:

    Happy Lord’s Day everyone!

  48. Michael says:

    This is enough
    I am one of those who oppose Trump …and therefore I am now an enemy of God.
    Franklin never called for a day of prayer for Obama…no, he helped spread the birther conspiracy theory and publicly doubted his Christian faith.
    He is weaponizing and politicizing the Gospel…it is wicked and it is blasphemous.
    As an Anglican we remember the President and our leaders daily in prayer and especially during the Sunday liturgy.
    We do so whether we support their policies or not.
    What we never do is claim that those who differ with us are verily the enemies of God.

  49. Michael says:

    To you as well, Dan!

  50. Erunner says:

    Our son has been visiting a Free Methodist Church and after reading a bit about them I’m curious how they are viewed by others in the body. Any responses would be appreciated.

  51. Michael says:

    Erunner,
    I think it’s just an old school Methodist group that still believes in entire sanctification.
    I think that’s silly, but they are seemingly orthodox.

  52. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Erunner – email me – I need to ask you something.
    mld1517@yahoo.com

  53. Erunner says:

    I’d have to say I wouldn’t be a candidate for this church as I’d “sin my way out” very quickly.” Our son is having what hopefully will be a minor surgery tomorrow. Thanks for your response. He and I will be talking some time after his surgery.

  54. Em says:

    Free Methodist church in my town is a big production, but my neighbor who was a member? Nothing Christian about her that i could see.. her persona was that of a smug snot…. God knows, though ? ? ?

  55. Erunner says:

    Hopefully if this woman hasn’t come to a saving faith in Christ that the light of the Gospel will penetrate the darkness and reach her heart.

  56. bob1 says:

    Erunner, I briefly attend a FM church in my teen years. They seemed to
    combine the “head and heart,” which I found quite appealing at the time.

    I’d classify them as conservative Methodists. Yes they have a strong holiness background. But as with most denoms, “your mileage may vary” from one congregation to the next.

  57. Brad z says:

    OK this is my very first post:

    This is stunning. Pastor Daniel Fusco of Crossroads Church next to Portland wrote an Op Ed in USA Today about standing with victims of clergy abuse. Then it came out that one of their pastors had sexually abused and raped a subordinate in his office – before he was hired at Crossroads. The victim contacted Daniel Fusco and he ignored her. She emailed again and he had his assistant write a vacuous response to her attempting to ignore her. They finally fired the pastor, but only because it was being exposed by The Wartburg Watch. Now the victim – an incredibly courageous woman is calling out Daniel Fusco on Twitter by commenting on his tweets. So he’s deleting his tweets to try to silence her rather than respond. What are they hiding???

    Here’s the article:

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2019/05/29/pastor-daniel-fusco-of-crossroads-community-church-expressed-concern-for-abuse-victims-in-usa-today-but-thats-not-how-he-acted-when-approached-by-mary-fakhoury-churchtoo-metoo/

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