October 9, 2020
It’s all yours today…
September 30, 2014
September 9, 2017
March 10, 2013
Since this is open blogging…
Been thinking about the passing of several well-known people that I looked up to. Eddie Van Halen. Prince. Rachel Held Evans. Did not personally know them. But they had an impact on me to varying degrees***, and their passing left a hole in my life. It’s trite to say that there is a finality of death (at least on this side of eternity anyways), but there is still a sadness from even the passing of someone you admire and yet never knew personally.
There are a few more out there still living, that when they pass, I will have a hard time. Gordon Lightfoot is one. Through his music I feel like I still have a connection with my father. My father played his records (or was it 8 tracks?) when I was a puffy little kid.
***As Michael sez, “your mileage may vary” and since this is my post, I can mourn whoever I want to mourn.
I was so disgusted with this place last night I turned it all off and did something that I used to do often…put on my headphones and listened to music.
All my favorites are dead, save my very favorite.
My favorite authors are gone.
It’s no secret around here that my own health really started declining when Bowden died.
Most of the people that formed me raised eyebrows among Christians.
I can’t express how much I don’t care…
Mourn who you will…the gifts given were real.
Thanks for responding Michael. I hear you. I have a vast CD collection, many/most of which will go unapproved by most believers. At one time I cleaned house, or in some cases in moments of spiritual resurgence, more than once. There are a few CD’s I repurchased, and some of those too met their eventually demise. One or two are now in my house again, and there they will stay. Now I am at the point that I too don’t care who see’s my collection anymore. It is who I am…good and/or bad.
Besides I don’t think all things “secular” are bad. I think that some people who consume nothing but Christian media/products are missing out on some deep and great stuff. Much of Christian media (books, TV, movies, music, etc) is canned, sterile, unimaginative, and stale.
And AMEN to the gifts being real!
“Much of Christian media (books, TV, movies, music, etc) is canned, sterile, unimaginative, and stale.”
And just plain awful.
I just have to be careful because I can get real depressed at all the loss.
It’s not just the loss…it’s the lack of qualified replacements.
“Mourn who you will…the gifts given were real.”. Amen.
and so i mourn some who must remain nameless here, but Michael and Dan celebrate the legacies they left you – and others – as God’s gift, perhaps? Perhaps?
I’ve always been on the fringe of evangelical thought and practice in regard to culture…rightfully suspicious.
After the last four years I totally reject it as trustworthy in any way and am teaching those I’m responsible for likewise.
If I’m going to hell, I’m going with a hell of a soundtrack…but I’m confident that I’m going to be with Jesus and He enjoys a hard left hand on a honky tonk piano…
There’s no perhaps about it.
I believe they were all gifts from God using the gifts that God gave them.
They may not have known it at the time, but they do now…
If anyone has a problem with what I wrote, let me make it worse.
If you all can baptize Trump, I can nominate Chuck Bowden and Jerry Lee for sainthood.
Working on icons…
Michael – I spent years cursing American Evangelicalism as a false Christian religion spreading false doctrine along the church landscape and you always got mad at me and said I needed to play nice.
Welcome to the dark side. 🙂
You wanted to curse them because of their theology.
I don’t care about the written theology…i curse the hypocrisy and the defilement of the faith with the lust for power and influence.
I look at this like Jesus looked at the Pharisees…the leadership is the problem, but evangelicals need to be responsible for those they allow to lead.
This last week would have been John Lennon’s 80th birthday. It was also three years since Tom Petty died. George Harrison, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, Bill Withers, Little Richard, Prince… the list goes on and on… Of the staff of five I worked with in NYC, I’m the only one left… It can sometimes feel a bit lonely.
I remain an unrepentant evangelical. If you encounter Jesus and he transforms your life, establishes your direction, creates your world and informs your thinking you will want everyone to know him. When you put an ‘ism’ into things they do tend to go askew. Hence I decry progressivism but hardly despise progress.
For the record I’ve not seen anyone on this blog “baptize Trump.” Believing his political narrative to be less deadly than another is hardly a baptism. It happens in my circles some and in conservative evangelical circles some but most know he is hardly a disciple of Jesus but he does seem to be a temporal bulwark against what the left is bringing.
Are the rest baptizing Biden? Why is it that if you have conservative politics and any semblance of evangelical faith you get smeared while those with left wing politics and first generation protestant faith get a pass? We need a two-edged sword to be consistent.
That’s why I don’t usually go near my music…I can remember the first time I heard Tammy Wynette and Roy Orbison…these were moments of transcendence… and I was so young.
I don’t remember the first time I heard Jerry Lee because my mom says I started demanding “Whole Lotta Shaking ” in the womb…I do remember the first time I beheld him and the glory fell.
The glory has become a faded memory kept alive digitally…but the 45 record was where it first dwelled…
I rarely hear anyone speaking of Biden’s faith and I’ve never heard the claim that he was God’s man for our time.
To my knowledge there have been no massive prayer gatherings to invoke the blessings of God on Joe Biden.
If you find someone who does, send them my way and I’ll flog them too.
“Why is it that if you have conservative politics and any semblance of evangelical faith you get smeared”
This is a bulls… question.
I have no issue with traditional conservatives and actually agree with them on more things than I don’t.
I believe they can provide a needed balance when dealing with fiscal issues and the size of government.
My singular objection is the notion that the current crop of wankers on either side is representing holiness or anything resembling the kingdom ways of God.
Michael, the evangelical practice you despise comes right out of their theology.
But I guess you aren’t really upset enough to look at roots.
I know that I break up the highest Christian calling of kumbya.
Most of the evangelicals I know are are decent and redeemed people who have been taught some weird stuff.
I will not be their enemy.
While you worry about the impact of leftist ideology, I worry about the actual consequences of far right extremism.
I rarely hear anyone speaking of Biden’s faith<<<
Biden was denied Communion because of his stand on abortion.
Now, I can concur that CRT is a lot of happy horse bleep…but can you decrie the wickedness on our border?
“Biden was denied Communion because of his stand on abortion.”
That’s not the point.
The point is that he does not wrap himself, nor do his supporters wrap themselves… in a heavy faith coat and declare themselves the party and person of the holy.
My “straw that broke the camels back” was when none of those here wringing their hands over the “leftist” agenda said a word about the evils of forced sterilizations, kids in cages, and now torture.
I guess that qualifies as moral and holy if you have an ” R” after your name.
Do not be deceived…God will not be mocked.
I will decry the wickedness on our border and I won’t stop decrying it until it comes to an end. Conservatives who support this are twisted in their thinking and I honestly believe Christians who support this evil are simply spiritually deceived. I can’t account for their stance any other way. May the LORD Himself rebuke the spiritual evil causing this blight on humanity.
Thank you and amen.
“about the evils of forced sterilizations, kids in cages, and now torture.”
What makes you say that these are unique to the “R”s – if they are going on, I am sure that they were going on during the days of the “D”s – I doubt Trump brought in a new administration of gynecologists’.
It’s the evil of mankind – and it further backs up my statements that it does not matter who is the Prez or controls the congress – this is life in this world.
Perhaps what matters is who is in Church each week.
How you answer the question “who is my neighbor?” speaks to the state of your soul.
“And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”” (Luke 10:25–28 ESV)
When Obama was president I ripped him over these issues and was told it wasn’t really happening by my conservative friends who wanted more.
Trump has taken the hatred of migrants and those seeking asylum to a level even I never thought possible…that is simply a fact.
Kids in cages, forced sterilization and torure?
Where do we look for reports on these things!
As per Biden the left manifests their righteous religious fidelity with more subtle but no less clear means. Usually it comes in the form of statements like the one posted from a CT article. Cardinals and bishops and church organizations love to sign left wing endorsements and condemnations of all things Trump.
They don’t much gather for prayer — that I’ll admit they are more likely to gather for protest.
Kamala is having no trouble announcing her faith and her advocates post it here.
And CRT is already killing people.
And yes I renounce and condemn the torture and mistreatment of immigrants regardless of means of arrival. I don’t advocate open borders nor denounce our inheritance as a nation.
Should Trump be denied communion (like he would care) over the deaths of those he kept captive and those he sent back to sure death in other countries?
Should he be denied communion for refusing to accept persecuted Christians fleeing death and seeking asylum?
I hear crickets but can’t find Buddy Holly…that’s a joke for old rock aficionados…
By a priest in one parish in South Carolina who then went to the press. Biden refused to discuss it saying it was a private matter and that, of course, he had received communion from Pope Francis…
“Kids in cages, forced sterilization and torure?
Where do we look for reports on these things!”
I’ve posted numerous links…just posted another one today on this thread.
I get half a dozen reports a day from the border…I stopped saying much here because very few care and it puts me in a very bad place spiritually and mentally.
My point is not the actual riots. It is the entire mindset that allows it to flourish unrestrained. The media lies about it. The governors and mayors endorse it. The police are placed in harms way and damned for any action they take. It’s a mindset – it’s an ideology that grips us. And yes the majority are in the middle. Majorities are just manipulated followers who comply.
“They don’t much gather for prayer — that I’ll admit they are more likely to gather for protest.”
Some of us have prayer baked into our lives, but it was a good slam.
Wrong thread 🤷🏻♂️
“Cardinals and bishops and church organizations love to sign left wing endorsements and condemnations of all things Trump.”
Really?!? Care to enumerate? I know a number of higher clergy who are friends of mine and they are, for the most part, pretty conservative…
My wife and I decided a couple of months ago to turn our presidential votes over to our kids – it’s their world, we have used our shots and must turn it over.
After listening to my 3 older grandkids talk political issues we decided to split. The kids get my wife’s vote and the grandkids get mine.
My kids were unanimous for Trump and the grandkids for Biden. So that is the way our ballots will be cast.
Found the link up at 11:33 regarding torture and some other forced allegations of hysterectomy being investigated by DHD at a Georgia detention facility…
It still seems to me that if you jump a nation’s border, you should expect to be sent back unless you can prove innocence and a threat of death….
We here may soon be looking for greener pastures, but I’m just not sure – even with O.T. cities of refuge – that God gives us that option…. We, Christians have been taking mercies in the name of Jesus into these lands for centuries….
MLD, my late husband intended to vote for Obama, so i cast his vote… But not the second time….
“It still seems to me that if you jump a nation’s border, you should expect to be sent back unless you can prove innocence and a threat of death….”
Most of the detainees didn’t “jump the border”.
They presented themselves to the Border Patrol and announced they were seeking asylum according to U.S. and international law.
Many have credible cases for believing they will die if sent back.
Read about the case of Emilio Soto and note the date Chuck wrote about him.
He is still fighting for his life and ICE is still fighting to deport him.
I have consistently said here that each Christian follows their God-informed conscience in the area of politics. Some look at the Repubs and find much to like and much to dislike; same with the Dems. There is much to like and dislike about both platforms.
The devil is the author of confusion. He presents us with confusing choices. Both choices, both candidates, have some truth. It is difficult to make a godly decision because there’s always “Well what about abortion? What about the border?” So whichever choice the Christian makes, there’s always those who made a different choice accusing you of being a poor excuse for a Christian. Don’t listen to those voices, is my advice.
Voting because you care about the border is good and righteous.
Voting because you care about the unborn is good and righteous.
Unfortunately, in this election, we can’t have both.
Pray and follow the Holy Spirit that lives within you and show respect to those who are doing likewise.
“Unfortunately, in this election, we can’t have both”
Then neither choice is more righteous.
In reality in four years, both abortion and the border will be unresolved because both are tools to raise funds and divide.
I think opting out of the political system and not voting is a valid option, if that’s what one’s conscience asks of them.
I saw where Dwayne Johnson “the rock” and a couple of others have announced that they are voting for the first time.
Not voting seems to have served them well all these years.
Opting out is a valid option – and it is a lie that if you don’t vote you can’t complain.
I early voted yesterday… and found it inspirational. Waited in line for an hour and a half, masked and socially distanced. The line extended over two city blocks. There were 18 year old first time voters (they got applause) and a woman of 85 in front of me. There were Black, White, Hispanic, Asian and more. Some were reading books, others listening to music and others just people watching. There was no rancor or anger. The Poll staff, mainly African-American, were helpful, patient and cheerful. (When someone said that they were a first time voter, the staff led the applause!) I was interviewed by a local Asian-American TV reporter on the way out. She didn’t ask me about who I voted for, but what voting meant to me. I got back to my car (no parking ticket) put on Bruce and drove home. It was good.
“Believing his political narrative to be less deadly than another is hardly a baptism. ”
It may not be a baptism, but it’s incorrect. So, on second thought, it must be a baptism of some kind which blinds its adherents.
BD, was Timothy McVeigh or the Weavers, the Bundies or the Michigan Militias or the Proud Boys leftists?
Have you heard of BLM or Antifa promising to poll watch fully armed?
Did the left kill anyone in Charlottesville?
Have you heard of any leftists bully, assault and murder gays and transgender Americans? Are leftists racially profiling black citizens? Are leftists beating up non-English speakers, Asians or Moslems?
If you want an ounce, just one tiny drop of credibility from me, you are going to have to assess your own biases, own them and repent. Come back to me when you can articulate a principle that applies universally. And if you give examples, make sure to include the ones that don’t pose a threat to you personally.
So if we disagree with Jean but still want to talk with him, we must repent first.
I’ve heard enough.
Hey! at least you can still talk to him — at least under certain constrains. I on the other hand have been banned from addressing him or commenting to him.
Jean’s play is to always bind the conscience – to play the Holy Spirit.
I am sure if we saw his photo he would be glowing a little.
MLD, Do you have the integrity to honor my request to cease and desist from using my name or responding to my comments? There are plenty of other people here willing to keep you company.
I cannot deal with you and keep my commitment to maintain decorum on this blog. Therefore, don’t provoke me, please!
to the one who does not want to be mentioned;
don’t be so full of yourself – the sun does not revolve around you.
I WAS RESPONDING TO XENIA’S COMMENT – NOT YOU.
I wonder why he whose name must not be mentioned is so offended by.. …. some……
pushback can make us all more thoughtful, more astute, more.. uhhh ……… . humble, can it not?
Nothing like watching 20 years of community go down in flames.
So many broken relationships and scattered communities…the day will come when we realize that it wasn’t worth it…but that day hasn’t arrived yet.
Michael, the town i grew up in, quiet with tree lined streets and mostly reasonable, friendly common folk is gone now. Lost to So. Caif. “progess.” I can’t go home again, nor would i want to live there now. The big old house i grew up in has become a condo complex surrounded by parking lots and other condos
To lose almost a whole town to a fire unplanned and sudden…. I can’t imagine how that must hit one….
Prayer continues along with some empathy – we all need to realize that one day God is going to bring ?His hammer down on this planet… hopefully, by then we, Redeemed souls, will have refocused and have eternal values… God help us
I know I ‘m being simplistic, but I am a bit of simpleton. I think one of the main reasons we have so much angst, so much strife, so few life-giving relationships is because we take ourselves way too seriously. We heard from Andy Warhol we were supposed to get 15 minutes of fame, so we try to get attention through social media. What matters are the people within range of our voice and our touch, not people in other states or even other countries. A little more love and a bit more laughter (especially at our gloriously ridiculous selves) would do wonders!
No one ever heard me defend right wing violence.
I do however believe the Weaver’s case has quite a bit of debate as to whether they or the FBI acted amiss. But I have no stake in it.
As for the rest … meh
I would wager that the left is entirely devoted to turning us into a pure democracy rather than a constitutional republic.
Enough judges to get a political majority
The end of the electoral college
Measures to change the power of the senate
It’s all probably coming. All empires fall. So let it be.
As for credibility with you — I never gave it a thought.
BD, thank you for your response. Here are my take-aways from your comments:
“Measures to change the power of the senate” Trump has re-written the rules on the extent of Executive Power through Executive Order, so that the Presidency has never been more powerful in relation to Congress than it is today. McConnell has re-written the rules on majority rule in the Senate. Were you complaining about those things during the Trump administration? Because, which ever party is in the majority in January will inherit the “rules” and ethos of this Administration and Senate.
“As for credibility with you — I never gave it a thought.” That’s certainly your choice and reflects major sections of our nation. The failure to desire credibility with those we disagree with, through principled and argumentation and empathy, means we remain comfortable in our cultural bubbles and sing ditties to our choirs. That feels good, but seeks to solve nothing, heals nothing, and results in nothing productive IMO.
Dan and Michael,
I’m becoming more and more convinced that huge swaths of Christianity are Orwellian and toxic.
It does seem evident that Congress has become the least functioning branch of government. The executive branch has been expanding executive orders as government by fiat for some time. Obama was a master at it. Government expands its power. It wants nothing less. Since the time of Roosevelt we’ve expanded government into all areas of our nation by the purse. Since the Civil Rights Act we’ve utilized the government purse as a means of coercion. All the parties do this. Trump certainly has begun to do so.
It is not hard to see where we are headed. California is a likely scenario for the nation; a one party state based on giving enough to aggrieved people to form a super majority. I think it is inevitable on the current course, though financial collapse may precede it.
You should read back at your 4:11 yesterday – I make it a pretty strong principle to avoid going after people on this blog. I keep myself pretty focused on issues. That certainly is the case here. You come at me with a paragraph like the last one in that post. I am sorry it is not something anyone should respond to or care about.
I do get extreme but I do not engage in personal attacks. Your invitation for me to repent to gain your credibility was really caustic bravado. It was a page right out of White Fragility… NOT going to happen.
Muff Potter…I agree to an extent. In my experience with evangelicalism, it seemed that there were teachings, books, seminars, etc that kind of spread like wildfire through our brand of Christianity. Not all were bad, but some were head-scratching (“The Prayer of Jabez”, for example). Every time I turned about someone was hosting a “Bible” study using the book “The Purpose Driven Life”. There are aspects of the “purity movement” (“I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Joshua Harris) that were/are toxic and shaming, which were harmful to those struggling sexually or wanting to find a spouse. I think one item the “broke the camels back” so to speak, was this emphasis on “do do do” … gotta be involved in something…as I got older it got more and more physically and mentally/emotionally draining. I can’t speak for other faith traditions, but that has been my experience. Not all of it was bad, though.
Babs – I was concerned that you would not be able to find a priest at that late hour to offer your confession and repentance and still have time to receive your certificate of indulgence to speak to him who doesn’t want his name mentioned. 🙂
As to your comment at 5:49 last night…. I’ve been reading here for about 6 years or so, on and off….this is the first time I’ve started to think it’s not a friendly place anymore….very sad. I’ve seen many of the same people here over the years, and seen them change dramatically this year.
I’ve withheld my own comments many times, usually because I just don’t feel qualified to comment on many of the issues . Many here are far more theologically learned than myself, and because I’m distanced from the issues in the U.S. I pretty much leave those alone, too.
I had things to share regarding the subject of music that started this thread (wish I had joined it earlier) – but as I’ve seen happening way to often lately, it deteriorated into anger and cutting words again.
Yet, I will keep praying.
Agreed Owen. Sorry you missed out on the initial conversation. Sad that yet again another conversation devolved into attacks and politics. I have been toying with no longer commenting also (I’ll still follow and pray for and support Michael as I promised in another thread). I guess we could go off and leave the “clanging cymbals” here to dominate (you know, the fathoming of all mysteries but having not love thing…).
Frankly, I enjoy a decent, non-political, non-theological, fun discussion that is afforded us with “open blogging” – because not everything has to be so damn serious.
We’ve seen a fundamental change in not only how people interact, but in the relationships themselves.
I guess we’re picture of the society as a whole, but we once had a strong sense of community here.
It’s gone now and because our perceptions of others value has changed, it’s not coming back.
I’ve got some investigative stories to finish, then we will take a hard look at whether this is the worth the time it takes it keep it going.
The only way to survive in media today is to pick one of the current meta narratives and ride it hard. That means attacking the other side with venom and vigor, while consistently affirming the bias and prejudices inherent in the side you choose.
I believe this is intellectually and theologically dishonest and anti-Christ in inspiration.
Someday we will realize what all this cost us…but it will be after I’m long gone.
I hear you, Michael….
If this is becoming a picture of the society as a whole, then the picture really has changed. This used to be a place where we could rise above the negative societal norms . Personally, Michael, I think it still may be one, after this “extended storm”, if you will. But I know I’m not seeing the whole picture, either.
But I have learned and grown a lot from visiting here. I think it could still be the sort of place where that can go on.
Here is a debate about voting for Trump. David French is quite apt in his role as the evangelical against Trump. Metaxas is kind of a mess, he’s simply not as razor sharp as French. I think this is a useful debate. French skewers pro Trump voters over the moral and ethical issues. Some of it is unfair but it is certainly cogently presented. I would have rather heard French debate with Victor Davis Hanson who wrote the Case for Trump.
My support of Trump is purely based on issues – for the record is not focused on abortion which will continue no matter what the Supreme Court rules. It is a myriad of policy issues that have my support. It is a nation lurching toward things that will increase rather than decrease suffering.
Anyway those of you who despise Trump will love this debate.
As for all the stress about this blog community falling apart. I am not here for mutual agreement on anything other than Jesus. The repartee simply does not bother me after stepping away.
Vigorous debate helps us. Personal attacks and demeaning one another does not. No doubt I have crossed boundaries too but this is my last shred of an online community so I am here. Frankly I was here before most so this is my ‘inheritance’ — Michael has taught us to be pissed off and come back calmly.
“The only way to survive in media today is to pick one of the current meta narratives and ride it hard….”etc…..
And yet you’ve survived without doing that, all the years I’ve been here. At least in my opinion, you’ve not chosen that path. You’ve spoken the Truth. You’ve chosen God’s purposes, from what I’ve seen anyway.
I know you know this already, Michael – but don’t quit unless God tells you to. Yes, that sounds simplistic, and yes, I don’t know everything that goes on. Just my 2 cents, though, my friend…
Thank you, Owen.
Funny you should say that…I tell Duane every week that I still don’t have the go ahead to retire…
I despise Trump with every fiber of my being…not because of policies, though some are as evil as hell…both sides own some of those…but because he has recreated all of us in his image.
That is going to destroy this country before any of the ideologies you worry about.
Dan, me too. I find that when I spend too much time being serious, that’s when I get too cranky and ticked off at everyone.
I remember a time (quite a while ago now) when Michael said he wanted no talk of politics here….
I can understand, however, given the current state of U.S. politics, how it’s much harder to avoid it…..probably about the time it crossed over so firmly into the faith world…..
What I failed to take into account was that faith and politics are no longer separate entities.
Thus, people can’t talk about faith without drawing on a political vein.
I find I have little to add to those conversations…other than they are basically heretical.
” I am not here for mutual agreement on anything other than Jesus.”
IMHO, that’s the attitude we need to maintain , here….
Unfortunately, that has become the case. The two used to be easy to keep separate.
I will say, however, that I don’t think very many of us saw that change coming, several years back. I know I didn’t.
I think it’s going to be a long hard road back, too…
The late Adrian Rogers this morning pointed out that Jesus said, render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s…. pay your taxes, yes but Christians should hold government accountable without taking sides, i.e. neither, or all, political parties are outside The Kingdom. AND we are to do so without being hateful, obnoxious people to each other or to the unredeemed.. .m
We are salt and light – beholden to uphold God’s Truth (morality?).
Errr sumthin like that… 😇
“I think it’s going to be a long hard road back, too…”
A couple of years ago I was saying that it would take a national catastrophe to bring us to sanity.
Enter Covid19…and we got worse.
The one thing that keeps me going is the possibility of being here when the next plague hits…and helping us all find our way back…
I think he reflects us — I think he got elected because common folk act and talk like he does. Ugly? Yes, often, but he is us. He also doesn’t talk like a politician. Many Americans hate political speak.
To your point he does also reflect the worst piece of us that will choose power over reason.
Other than immigration what policies do you hate?
I feel equally loathsome of Biden/Harris.
In that debate French makes a lot of moderate claims about Biden that are crap but he does it well. He also rebukes Christians for fear which I think was manipulative of our faith and untethered to issues on the ground. Fear is not a good reason to bully people into quietism about trends that are headed for dark evil outcomes.
Michael, I think what the catastrophe has done is made the lines very bold and plain – nothing is grey or fuzzy anymore. It’s brought out the best and worst in people.
That might actually make it easier, in the long run, to recover…..
“but he is us”
Hell no, he isn’t.
Most “common folk” are decent and large hearted with at least a bent toward morality.
We all have a sin nature…and that’s the commonality that he expands.
Politicians used to try to appeal to the decent part…where we could at least feign unity.
Hmmm… The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom…. Our fears should be rational?
Biden? I just received an Email with a youtube link verifying that Joe Biden revealed the names of Seal Team 6 that took out Bin Laden… That resulted in their deaths and jeopardizes their familues to this day…. Good old Joe B. just isn’t a man to handle this nation. IMV, of course
I won’t put the YouTube link here unless Michael asks for it….
His immigration evil is enough that history will convict him even if Christians won’t.
The rest of what I object too are political matters where I understand that the victors gain the spoils, not matters of Christian ethics and ideology.
He has appealed to our worst nature…and we are now living with the worst we can be…almost.
“He is us?” . .. I suspect he is more than we acknowledge…. 🙆
Or want to acknowledge….
I watched the first hour of that debate…French obliterates him.
I’ll watch the rest later.
The “common folk” here an Iowa act and talk nothing like Trump. Sure, they can toss out an expletive here and there, but most are basically honest, caring people and stable. Trump, by contrast, is the most dishonest, uncaring, erratic person in any office that I’ve ever heard.
If you doubt those descriptions, you need look no farther than his management of the coronavirus pandemic. It isn’t as though he talked different than a politician, but nonetheless has done a good job. No, his narcissism, psychopathy, lack of empathy and, frankly, disinterest, have resulted in reckless mismanagement and has caused much suffering.
He has lead on the pandemic down at the sewer level of Bolsonaro, rather than at the professional level of Merkel.
Paul Johnson the historian mused over Bill Clinton that eventually our leaders reflect us.
Trump talks like people actually talk. Sorry we ain’t pretty and we ain’t good.
That’s not an endorsement. It’s a confession. As you like to say “results vary”
I choose to hang on to my delusion that most people are good, but easily manipulated by pastors and politicians…
Just for clarity how did governor Cuomo do on coronavirus?
I’ll agree that Trump has not done well. His pride has revealed him. But I also think the mitigations are likely to continue wrecking us.
The link below is to a scientific study conducted by CDC and the AZ Dept. of Health which analyzed the effectiveness of mask wearing and other mitigation measures put in place after AZ’s epidemic
beginning around 6/1. The impact was statistically enormous.
A pandemic is a wrecking event. It’s important that we acknowledge that it is the virus which wrecks lives and livelihoods. The question for political leaders working in consultation with experts in the field of epidemiology and infectious diseases is how to protect life and livelihoods.
One could ask: What course of action during the pandemic optimises freedom in terms of freedom of movement, being able to work and remaining disease free?
The science shows that mask wearing, social distancing, and washing hands together optimize our freedom. If the President wouldn’t have politicized masks early on, I don’t think they would have become a lightning rod of controversy.
Many successful corporations, including my employer, have strict mask wearing and office density rules right now, because they need their employees healthy and productive. You get used to masks like everything else.
What compounds the wreckage of a pandemic is to ignore it and watch it overwhelm healthcare systems. More people die, more businesses close, more schools close, more workers are laid off, more people despair.
Well, Dr. Duane, the YouTube show the parents of one of the Seals AND some others right after the incident saying Biden did so…
Who to believe…. ?
Jean, if I may speak in your conversation with BD,
I’ve been watching this pandemic here in AZ since the beginning. In our mask wars, nobody brings up much about whether Trump “politicized masks early on”. However, they have brought up the astonishing number of people here who yelled/sneered at others, “Wear a mask, you selfish b*st*rd — you’re killing Grandma!” I suspect that sort of thing influenced a lot more behavior out here than anything Trump did or said. I can’t find many examples of what the the liberal/progressive side has done to encourage mask wearing — or more importantly, examples of what have they done to demonstrate proper pandemic behavior in a way that inspires others to follow it. Insulting people and accusing them of murder isn’t going to do it. Giving up on recalcitrant people and telling everyone else that they’re stupid isn’t going to do it, either. Out where I live (in a fairly geographically-distanced place to start with), when people — good people who were aware of the news on covid-19’s contagion and potential to overwhelm local hospitals –started feeling like the virus was getting too close for comfort, they started wearing masks on their own and social distanced as part of their own personal risk assessment. Funny how the mayor of a nearby small town with a very progressive population had to include a statement in the daily coronavirus report imploring folks to stop yelling at the unmasked. Nonetheless, people want to emulate the behavior of those who inspire them. We can’t do a great deal about distant people following a charisma-by-media leader. But, how do we, as Christians, inspire those in our immediate sphere — family, friends, coworkers, the people we talk to in passing every day — to do the best thing, not for our own self-serving reasons, but for the sake of others in our town, state, and country? Not an easy question to answer, but one that we must.
At the bottom of the fact check article were the 30+ sources… all reliable.
Nothing in that answer I wasn’t aware of. Two things I was already aware of by Mar 13. 1. This disease is not going to kill your children. Of course that is not statistically literal. A very few children will and have died. 2. Older adults with health problems are wildly vulnerable. I told these thing to my church.
That meant mitigation should have been mindful. I saw Cuomo in a news conference clearly indicating his ignorance on the second.
New York had policies that murdered seniors. They won’t even acknowledge it. As you did not though I asked directly.
It’s a catastrophe — I don’t get too righteous about leadership failures in catastrophe. Point being Cuomo and Trump both have accountability.
However, I won’t close my church again. I will treat people like they are responsible.
We will wear masks — social distance — and choose freely to assemble — I will not tell them they are safe from this disease. I will tell them they are responsible and free.
The healthcare system even in NY had resources they never touched.
We’ve had no more than 225 in the hospitals of our state at one time.
The failures are both of extreme mitigation and neglect.
Blame can go everywhere.
Dr. Duane, i must confess that these days it is hard to know who tells the truth, so….
Who did release the names? Team thought Biden, the administration, did so and warned their families…..
Stupid or evil? Dunno
This thread has been an interesting read. I just can’t find any resolve to get too concerned over any of this, except to mention I’ve been here longer than dread……..
When did you arrive?
It’s nice to make your acquaintance. Thank your for your comments.
There is a number of good online sources, linking transcripts, which give a timeline of Trump’s various statements on mask wearing. He has from the beginning been equivocal at best and skeptical at worst. In the beginning he said he was opting out of mask wearing; that and other statements caused mixed messaging and confusion amongst the American people. What he did was contradict his own task force recommendations. That is a tremendous and catastrophic failure of leadership on his part.
“So with the masks, it’s going to be, really, a voluntary thing. You can do it. You don’t have to do it. I’m choosing not to do it, but some people may want to do it, and that’s okay.” Donald Trump, Coronaviurs Task Force Briefing, 4/3
On April 16, in an interview on Fox News, Trump said he thinks people wear masks to signal disapproval of him. I don’t have a subscription to give you a quotation.
I think Senator McConnell said it best last week when he admitted that he hasn’t been to the WH since 8/16 because they do not practice mask wearing and social distancing. We see the result there.
Unfortunately, the controversy over masks, which one could argue began with Trump, but in any event he exacerbated and certainly has made no effort to quell, has led to front line workers in retail and hospitality being shot for asking customers to wear a mask in their establishments.
May I say something about the blog? I’ve been here for a while myself (not as long as BD and Scoreboard 🙂 ). But I’d like to say that this community literally saved my spiritual life. I fear I may have drifted into apostasy if I hadn’t had this community. So, I’d just like to humbly ask everyone in this community to give a thought to things like that. Like how this community affects individual souls. Some people like me have no other Christian outlet. A place to hear other believers discussing spiritual/social issues and the like; it’s important. And Michael. I see you and hear you. You’re weary, brother. Very understandable. I just don’t think this community is finished. Just my .02. Love to all.
some time around ’04-’05. During the big dustup at CCLaguna (that wasn’t in Laguna 😉 ) that was before the ABQ debacle.
.02 well spent
I’ll hang until the real shooting starts —
Hope you’re well Mike.
Good words! For a number of years now this community has been my main church. My job doesn’t allow me to go to Sunday meetings much. It’s interesting getting to know people here. I too echo your words about how this community affects our souls. I frankly don’t see a need to argue with people or name-call (anymore anyways). If others want to argue politics or theology, maybe that is their thing and it’s not necessarily my cup o’ tea. I just choose not to participate. But I get dismayed at times when topics come up and it devolves into something hostile.
This site, along with to a lesser degree, The Internet Monk, are my two “go to” places where I feel some fellowship. Everywhere else is just a shouting match.
Here’s a nice clip of how political opponents (sometimes) treat each other in my country.
The man giving his farewell speech is I think a fairly typical conservative, the woman is our Kamala Harris.
That was the timeframe because we took in many refugees at Ocean Hills.
I think they were still in Laguna — Laguna Hills begging the amphitheater
Scoreboard = pstmike?
Yes Dan — PstMike was here before me… so he wins… I still ain’t leaving because of political bitching. He goes back before the AbqCC fiasco … so that’s seniority and “Scoreboard”
I was here before both of you! I win!
Interesting to know people’s backstory’s here….ya’ll been here longer than me.
I was here before there was a here.
My privilege status is falling fast
No Respect Dread
I used to be Severe Mercy! Anybody remember that?
Well i found the Phxp site when i was searching for light bulbs – literal light bulbs. 🙆
Em, how did you manage that?
I found this site thru the links on The Internet Monk links list. For some reason, Phoenix Preacher stuck out to me.
I remember that Xenia
That was pre-orthodoxy wasn’t it?
You need to unpack that bulb
Dread, it was right around the time I converted. I inflicted a lot of convert-zeal on the blog.
I remember Xenia as Severe Mercy. I came on in March of 2006 as I was transitioning to Lutheran theology while teaching 3 classes a week at Ocean Hills – Skip’s church.
Xenia was an online friend before I started blogging, then came with us when we were on blogspot.com before I bought the domain.
I remember calling my friend and being extremely excited that 17 people had clicked on my site…
Within a short time this thing exploded and we had to have our own hosting.
I value everyone here…and I’m blessed that so many have been here for so long.
I like that handle, Severe Mercy….. what made you change it? Just curious….
I wandered in here around 2007, maybe late 06 but primarily lurked until the infamous “Shack” thread’s colorful fireworks. Loads of fun since then.
Owen, when I realized people from my old Calvary Chapel were reading the blog, I decided I needed to be transparent so I began using my real name. I think I used my pre Orthodox name (Diane Moos) for a while then went to Xenia, which most people in my off line life recognize me as now.
In real life, everyone calls me Xenia, even my old Calvary Chapel pastor. Xenia is the name I was given when I was received into the Orthodox Church about 20 years ago.
I remember Severe Mercy. I used Sev Mer for short. You were already here when I got here. I think mld may have been here then, as was TheAxed, nomansapologist and possibly ( |o )===:::
I found out about this place because a friend of mine is buddies with some “discernment ministry” guy and they were avid readers here.
I remember when some of the well known CC pastors would regularly post here. Most used a moniker. It was a lot of fun to meet them in person at conferences 😉
you were the one keeping score……… 8)
Pastor Dread @ 8:31
i was looking for light bulbs and searching brought up some kennel that raised German Shepherds in Phoenix, AZ. Having raised my children with the breed, that aroused my curiosity (rabbit trail) and in the process of locating the kennel up popped the Phoenix Preacher….
Michael had posted something that i didn’t approve of and i answered back… he gave me a very snarky response and i was hooked.
YES, i am a bit strange 😉 , not easily put off by snark
AND i do love the posts and the people here
2005 for me.
Looks like we are all growing old together.
Pretty soon the election will be over and we’ll be back to chasing evil preachers.
I doubt the FBI will go after old Biden like they did the Orange man.
I don’t know what year I showed up… it was when CCAbq blew up
Tried to jettison Dread a couple times … not happening.
Michael is the history of all this stuff online somewhere? Kinda hope not
“Michael is the history of all this stuff online somewhere? ”
Technically yes, practically no.
Some of it can be accessed in various places.
The database for this site in the early years was far bigger than the tech at the time could handle…1000 comment threads were not unusual.
It got hacked so often and so badly, most of the early years are gone.
’08 for me. Todd Bentley’s “revival” wrecked my church, and this place was talking about the revival from a critical perspective.
Biggest issues I remember:
Alex prank calls Chuck.
Drury splits the board.
Ted Haggard says hi.
Driscoll goes down.
Tullian is gross.
Those are the main ones that stick out to me.
Xenia, I vaguely recall Severe Mercy as your moniker when I first showed up.
“Michael had posted something that i didn’t approve of and i answered back… he gave me a very snarky response and i was hooked.”
Same here, except I pushed back and then was hooked. Now I consider Michael one of my closest friends.
“Looks like we are all growing old together.”
That’s almost a scary thought. . . and its true.
I’m glad some of the early stuff is not retrievable 😉
One happy family…
Josh — that’s a great rundown.
Bentley — he just went off the radar THIS YEAR — but he’ll find a place to huckster
Saeed — I was so dialed into that one — sucker punched.
Ted — he’s over 10 years past that mess. He and Gayle are thriving, he pastors a small church and is happy with his simpler life. We connect from time to time.
Driscoll — his assistant was from my town and is a friend. He did not fare well in the immediate aftermath as the internal struggle was dark. He’s in Ft Worth now and back to himself.
I showed up right around the time Skip was giving Pete Nelson a migraine.
Costco Cal and I both were in the process of moving to new churches at the same time in 2006. We shared thoughts here as well as emails on the side.
On a side note, I’m on the road this week. Driving from Coeur d’Alene to Boise. I had lunch in liberal Moscow (also home to Doug Wilson’s patriarchal Christ Church) and the dinner in a super conservative small town. Love the variety! Even if there are things I don’t agree with on either side. I sometimes find the liberals whiny and fearful, and the conservatives cavalier and braggadocio. No matter, in the end I can appreciate the things about them I do appreciate. I only get a bit annoyed with people who are over entrenched in their personal perspective. When a person becomes an soulless activist, I’m not interested.
Just some thoughts from someplace in central Idaho.
BD – I am genuinely glad to hear that Ted is doing well, and happily ministering in (mostly) obscurity.
In the Bentley mess, I almost listed when Rick Joyner publicly dissed you. I don’t think Rick ever acknowledged Todd’s wrongs, even to the bitter end. I see that Rick is now urging Christians to take up arms and prepare for the next civil war. Solid guy, that Joyner.
By volume and stress…
The Laguna/Sabolick mess starring Don McClure
The CBN/Mike Kestler mess starring Kestler and Chuck Smith
The Heitzig/Pete Nelson stories featuring Franklin Graham
The biggest single days were the days when Greg Laurie’s son died and the day we broke the Bob Coy resignation.
My favorite memories were when Kay Warren wrote in to encourage me, a piece BD wrote on my fiftieth…and the week the blog sent me to Geneva….lots more I’m sure I’m not remembering today.
Hardest days have been so many…but when a reader who became a friend died it shook me. It’s happened a few times now and it eats me up.
BD… “See Michael…One happy family..”
I like that!
David Sloane and Ken Blatchford…”Surfer51″ and “Puzzletop”… long time members who are with the Lord.
Ken had a knack of knowing when I was driving on a trip…he’d call and and we’d talk for an hour when I was either going somewhere or coming home…we were never able to meet in person when I would visit ABQ and I regret that…still friends with his kids, who he loved with all he had.
David lived with a menagerie…loved animals and us as well….cancer took him.
“Costco Cal”…is gone now, too.
People thought we were friends…we were anything but…
Costco Cal? I thought I remembered seeing him around not too long ago. Was it pretty recent?
I remember Surfer51.
BD said “See Michael…one happy family”…that put a smile on me!
My comments in moderation?
I don’t know why that happened…glitch in the spam catcher.
He died a couple of years ago…P.J. Courson.
Hmm. I didn’t put the two together.
Ahh no problem Michael. Fun to hear everyone’s backstory’s here.
It’s been a hell of a ride…This place used to run 24/7 and we had as many as eight moderators taking turns keeping order.
It’s the stories I can never tell that I always think of when things get nostalgic here…
Hehe! I remember you tried to resurrect the Night Crew last year. I tried to participate since I work night shifts a bit, but it kinda fell flat after a while. Here is me typing something at 3am Easter time and someone just going to bed on the west coast at midnight is wondering why I am rambling about some 3am useless trivia when they are headed off to bed.
Despite what I stated in an earlier post about dumping out of here, I see more value here with knowing people’s backstory’s than I knew.
Was PJ also neo for a while?
Ahh, lots of memories here.
Anybody keep up with Alex to know how he’s doing?
Uhh, and I search the blog for that name and it comes up blank…might not be good. Sorry if I wasn’t supposed to mention.
Back when I started following here, I think I saw something about “commenter of the week” (judged only by volume of comments from an individual). I think I saw MLD’s name on there a lot. Any trophies given out?
Couldn’t remember his name, but i seem to recall that Alex had some kind of reconciliation… Not sure, though….
I see The Axed here and there on the internet. He’s involved with Orthodox things.
Really?!?! THat’s interesting!
Let me see if I can find him….
I started lurking when the Ocean Hills thing started. A co-worker was going to church there and, since I had been to CCBC, wanted to know if I knew anything about Skip coming to town. That’s how I found PP.
I find it fascinating that your church gave you a name, curious about the the history of that practice?
Not answering for Xenia, but to add to the conversation, the practice of the giving of a Christian name at Baptism had its roots in the Hebrew practice of circumcision, when the male child was not only entered into the covenant but named (Luke 1:59-60). Baptism is the Sacrament of the new birth, so it is fitting that the new child of God be given a new name at Baptism to correspond to his/her new identity in Christ. I wish I had that, because when one is called by their Christian name hopefully they remember their baptism and the manifold promises God made to them in their baptism.
Jean, thanks, I recall reading that now. I wonder if that practice faded due to societal norms changing, or…. ?
Interested to hear Xenia’s take on that from the Orthodox perspective as well.
BD..Pstrmike…02-05..making me feel like just a kid.
Owen, that’s a good question. For a very long time, parents would name their children after the Saint who was commemorated on the day of their birth. Since I became Orthodox as an adult, this didn’t apply. I asked if I could have St. Xenia of St. Petersburg, a fool-for-Christ (seemed appropriate) and after some thought, it was agreed. She is a Russian Saint and this was a Greek parish and they had not heard of her, although they had heard of Xenia of Rome. After I joined, they got an icon of her, which warmed my heart. Becoming Orthodox was such a profound change in my life that I decided to use my Orthodox name as often as possible, which has been successful. Even my husband calls me Xenia. I’m only Diane on legal papers.
St. Xenia live in the 1700’s. Here’s her story: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Xenia_of_St._Petersburg
My legal name, Diane, after a Greek goddess, did not and does not appeal to me much.
The name change is a common thing for adult converts but I think I was more extreme than many in pressing it, for those who were willing, and turns out, almost everyone is. My mother has no interest in my conversion and has never asked about it. She calls me by a pet nickname I had as a child.
In our tiny parish of about 60, there are 3 Xenias.
Yes, what Jean said.
I was received into the Orthodox Church by the Greeks because they were easier to join. The Russian Church, where we are now, seemed too formidable!
Xenia, thank you for sharing your story and St. Xenia’s. Definitely food for thought. The hymns are wonderful. There’s a great depth there, gives one more to aspire to.
It’s so nice to see this congeniality talking about the blog’s old days. If any here don’t know, I was Cash. Anyway, yes this is a community that has and continues to touch many souls. ❤️
I didn’t know that , Mike. I do remember seeing Cash.
Mike! i didn’t know you were Cash!
My blog is mainly for my church people, but that post I wrote about PJ Courson still gets between 20-40 visits a day from all over the world.
I’m going to wait to find out my new name from God…. I just hope it isn’t too descriptive…. 🙆
enjoy it while you can……………
I knew there had been name changes but I never knew who changed to what other than a couple. Nice break from the election repartee but I promise to come back strong pushing back on covid mitigations, the radical left’s takeover of the democrat party and the endless coup against POTUS.
But today has been a nice walk down memory lane with you guys while I pack my home here and go through 40 years of accumulated stuff preparing for whatever the Father has that I might put my hand to.
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