Potters Field Owes Former Workers Over 150 Grand

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13 Responses

  1. Captain Kevin says:

    Well, that’s a step in the right direction.

  2. Captain Kevin says:

    I’d be curious to know why 8 of the 14 were denied.

  3. Michael says:

    I’ve seen one of the denied claims and I’m still baffled.
    We’ll see how this plays out…

  4. Em says:

    Is that figure net of withholding d S.S? WOW
    I smell “bankruptcy” …

  5. filbertz says:

    isn’t that about a month’s worth of donations?

  6. Michael says:

    It’s about three months worth at last word…hopefully it will be about 100 years worth soon…

  7. Jessica says:

    Small victories. Very happy these folks are getting some compensation for their traumatic experiences. It’s undoubtedly no where near enough. Hopefully one day those of us who couldn’t pursue lawsuits due to statute of limitations receive some form of justice.

  8. Jessica says:

    Small victories. Very happy these folks are getting some compensation for their traumatic experiences. It’s undoubtedly no where near enough. Hopefully one day those of us who couldn’t pursue lawsuits due to statute of limitations receive some form of justice.

  9. Not an Attorney(this is not legal advice) says:

    If these wage and hour claims were pursued in California, the Rozells would have a major class action lawsuit against them. The statute of limitations for pursuing these claims is 4 years under the unfair competition law. Also California has a joint employment/Joint liability statute which allows plaintiffs to go after the client who hired the contractor. In this case those churches that allowed PFM/mudman to sell burgers at their conferences could be held liable for the wage claims if PFM does not have the financial capacity to pay for the claims.

    The take away…..vet any Vendor you allow on your property at your conferences especially if you are located in California or any other state with strong worker protection laws. The last thing a Calvary Chapel church needs is to be forced to sell its property or other business assets in order to pay for PFM’s wage and hour claims caused by the Rozells.

  10. Reality Check says:

    Honest Questions that Need Honest Answers:

    Throughout this entire and ongoing episode, that reeks of falsehood, deception, abuse, narcissism, misuse of funds, and self-preservation – this, now many months later, continues to be much more than just a ‘blackeye’ on The Body of Christ, it in reality, is a stench in the nostrils of God, Himself.

    We wonder, how could two people, who claim to know Christ, that performed on stages around the world, who presented what appears to be, later, a false front, do what they have done to others, and ended up where they are? And then what no one can seem to understand, is how the Rozells give the appearance of not caring? How did we get here, where they left in their path a wake of destruction of precious lives and souls, and in the process seem to show no outward remorse, no brokenness, no repentance, no restitution, no discipleship, no outward evidence of walking with God? Surely, they do not think they are somehow blameless. No one can be that naïve, can they? Unless… there is something missing…

    I mean after all… if it were me, I would hope I would definitely be looking Heavenward in real brokenness and true repentance before God and seeking restitution to those I have obviously hurt, IF I was truly was walking with God – IF I truly knew Christ as my Savior – IF His Word truly directed my steps, life, and heart; no matter what the personal cost might be. IF all this was not all for show.

    Questions for the Rozells:
    After all, if the Church System that (1) Helped you get started and encouraged you at the beginning and then throughout your ministry, as well as (2) churches supporting you in your ministry endeavors and offering you places to minister, partnering with you financially, now have turned their back on you because of what has been occurring in your lives and ministry; that after all these years they now rebuke you regarding your treatment of precious souls in the Body of Christ, proposed misuse of funds, and more, should alone, at the very least be disconcerting and troublesome to you both as individual Christians and also as Potters Field Ministries, itself. And yet when we look on, it appears to have not to bother you in the least. This surely sets off all sorts of spiritual alarms and warning bells.

    If you can sit there and read all the testimonies from individuals and families reporting your abuse towards them, and then your first response in your hearts is a ‘justification’ of what you are accused of doing and have allegedly done, or if you have a so-called ‘reason’ for what was done to each individual, and this doesn’t bring you to tears and brokenness, there is something tragically and definitely wrong! Even Christ cried over Jerusalem.

    Here is the bottom line. We The Body of Christ have watched over a consistent period of time how you, The Rozells currently have a testimony of: (1) Spiritually and cultically abusing those under their care, (2) A consistent practice of ostracizing and dividing children from their parents, and demeaning the parents themselves [though you yourselves have never had any children – and in your thinking, hearing you say that you could do a better job than the parents themselves], of (3) Trying to divide husbands and wives in their marriage, (4) Of practicing documented cultic techniques and practices of you both screaming at young people, adults, and everyone that would honestly question you or bring into question your practices, for hours on end until you personally broke them mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually all because of your demented ‘Spiritual Seals’ training not found in God’s Word – something Christ would never do; (5) Of presenting yourselves, in your eyes, as more spiritual and as THE spiritual leaders of your compound and group, (6) Being dishonest in your money dealings (though you try to justify all of it) (7) Instead of actually being servants of God, you have promoted as ‘personally’ being served. Something you think you deserve it because of all your ‘sacrifices’ down through the years; (8) Cheating staff out of wages, (9) For those who were able to leave your ministry, or ones you ran off, you would always hear that the fault, at least in your eyes, was theirs – a true form of narcissism, (9) Being obsessed with discussions about people’s past sexual sins. The list goes on. Good friends demeaned. Their children still not able to recover. We have researched out to and talked to those who have been abused as well as the parents of the abused. The tragedies left behind. Stories consistent throughout. The hurts, devastation, anger, and spiritual abuse. All in the ‘wake’ of your ministry. Not a good legacy to leave.

    Questions for The Body of Christ:
    Since we, as The Body of Christ, can only go on what we are seeing as fruit inspectors, and reading responses posted, about Michael and Pam, PFM and their attorney, then perhaps there are certain conclusions we can draw from their response, or lack thereof.

    (1) Are The Rozells even Biblical Christians? After all, that is a legitimate question, and we are sure will anger them greatly if they are reading these responses. It is definitely not intended. The question is not to be one of being judgmental, but since we are “known by our fruit” it definitely holds a lot of legitimate weight. It is a standard they so readily have held for others over the years; and a question they should be asking themselves. For if they are not, we pray they truly might be saved.

    After all, many Pastors, Evangelists, Preachers, Singers, Entertainers, Bible Teachers, etc. have been ‘great performers’ in Christendom down through the years, starting out ‘great’ presenting a real Gospel, and then died and went to hell, and/or been found out later to be phonies. We hope that is not the case here. If I were The Rozells, that alone would trouble me if that were me, and cause me to, (as The Rozells were always willing to say to others), ‘suck carpet’ and get before God and find out. But we sadly have not seen any evidence throughout this whole process of that being the case.

    (2) Whether they are or are not, we now must honestly and Scripturally call everything they have ever done, said, taught, and or ministered about to be called into Suspect and Question. For several reasons:

    [A] Someone said, “What you do speaks so loudly I can’t hear what you say.” That is true. We are known by our actions. If we ‘say’ the right things, but ‘live’ differently, our message is tarnished.

    Others have commented, “But look how God used them to touch so many lives.” A couple of things. God can use anyone for His glory – saved and lost. After all, He used King Cyrus and called him His shepherd, prophesying 150 years before His time, that he would deliver Israel – which he did, though he himself was never a believer. God also used a donkey to proclaim His truth in The Old Testament. Jesus even used Judas Iscariot, to preach the Gospel and a lot more before he turned on Christ – and we know he was never a ‘child of God.’ The Scripture is full of those examples. Even those who started off strong, and then were shipwrecked along the way.

    We know that God’s Word is immensely powerful and will not return ‘void’ according to Isaiah 55. Lives can be touched and changed because of God’s Word, in the sharing of powerful testimonies and illustrations, emotional and heart-rending music, and professional presentations. Why? Because God’s people are attuned to The Holy Spirit and He works in the lives of individuals with His Word, as well as those who are lost.

    People can even get saved while the one(s) proclaiming His Word, by whatever means, are still utterly lost. So it IS possible, that Michael and Pam could simply just be ‘great and professional performers’ – putting on a front, while being on stage, and running the façade of a great business model. The questions can be asked, have they been just performing and posturing, or is there really a personal relationship with God? Needless to say, with all that is transpiring in their ministry and lives, this would for most people truly cause them to search their souls and ‘get right with God.’ If they truly are, it is obviously evident that they horribly got off track somewhere back many years ago. After all, this did not just happen overnight.

    [B] The Rozell’s response up to this point to those that are hurting, is in itself a shame and tragedy. If there were only one or two accusations, that might be understandable. After all, every church, parachurch organization, mission group, etc. has people that do not like something about the way a certain ministry is run, or there are misunderstandings, etc. But reading these responses, this is far different.

    The very VOLUME of real lives that have strategically and purposefully been hurt, devastated, and destroyed is alone, staggering. Maybe one or two, but this number??!! Is that the life-end ministry and testimony that Michael and Pam want to leave? It would appear so. If even JUST ONE of the accusations were true, most Christians would be ‘sucking carpet’ seeking God’s forgiveness and especially the forgiveness of the one(s) they helped to destroy and hurt. This is NOT a private matter – but it IS public one before the whole world. Have The Rozell’s hearts become so hardened with self-importance that they fail to see what they have actually done? Do they not even care about the poison they have ingested into all of these people?

    Sadly, it appears that life goes on as normal for The Rozells. And yet, people that once truly loved and trusted them, that entrusted their children to them for spiritual love, focusing on Christ, discipleship and growth, now in tears have watched their children go through what they have, and trying to get them to once again to trust God and receive the unconditional love they once enjoyed. Something The Rozells cultically removed from them. Where once the names of Michael and Pam were held in high and great respect by friends, various families, and others, now brings distaste and intense anger. Still, not the legacy you would want to leave this earth with.

    We The Body of Christ were hoping that The Rozell’s walk with God was real. That narcissism was not the lord of their lives. We were hoping that the God we know, and they proclaimed would truly break their hearts, soften their minds and grip their souls; that real repentance would flow forth in tears of true brokenness with their displaying the Biblical forgiveness they once proclaimed.

    But sadly, we have not seen anything. What we have seen is that instead of The Bible guiding and directing their lives through this, it has been the Legal System and lawyers. Of now being ‘forced’ to pay only some restitution. Not what we would expect from a Christ-follower. We had hoped that their walk was real, and they would be like Zacchaeus, who when he came to know our Lord, he restored four-fold to everyone he had taken by false accusation. We had hoped Michael and Pam would have done the same. Not to just the ones that were ripped off financially, but also to the abused.

    Instead, we read where attitudes towards those wronged is not that of true love or people cared about, but rather the impression we get is that they appear to consider their former staff to be that of a ‘minion.’ People that were abused and then discarded. The impression of being demeaned. For by referring to them as just ‘Ranch hands,’ ‘Volunteers,’ and ‘Interns’ – the impression is that they are second class citizens of Heaven and not deserving of equal pay, or even Christlike generosity, honesty, love, and example. Of ‘teaching them a lesson,’ of ‘hard discipleship,’ of not enough wages to live on, to ‘suffer for the cause of Christ,’ while others lived in luxury.

    At one time, we would like to believe that The Rozells were different. Maybe they were, maybe they were not, and in doing so have just put on a ‘show’ this entire time. They had such potential but have ended up trampling it all underfoot. The impression is they feel more important than Christ, that they are living above their Savior. In all my years, I have watched and know that our God has a way of exposing error – needless to say, He has done so here.

    This stain on God’s testimony needs to be Biblically resolved. Calvary Chapel has tragically turned their backs and eye to the matter – out of sight, out of mind – and appears to have, like Pilate, ‘washed their hands of the whole matter’ and in doing so, perpetuated the sin, and allowing it to resurface.

    We rightfully understand why people are angry and hurt – for The Rozells have truly HURT A LOT of people over MANY years – friends, families, co-workers, others in ministry, children, and those who had been entrusted to them. They have let us down. The question is, now – what will they do about it? Who really and truly controls their lives? Their response, or lack thereof will tell. What they do, or do not do, will let the world know who they are truly worshiping, and what is really important.

    I know this sounds harsh. But then, it is the same ‘accountability’ that they always held others to, we now hold to them. Do they really believe what they taught? Are they above God’s Word or will they submit to His Truth? We can only hope and pray that The God whom they proclaimed, and that we love, will once again, or maybe perhaps for the very first time, truly grip their very hearts, minds, and souls and we truly will see Christ in them, and in their actions. That this will not just be ‘another performance.’

    It is far past time for The Rozells to get on The Master Potter’s wheel, themselves. The Potter’s Wheel they sang about and displayed in churches, on mission fields, in schools, and more. It is far past time for The Rozells to allow Him to expose and actually remove all the junk in their lives of what they have done. And for them to quit justifying all the filth, junk, hurt, and pain they have caused that is there. For our God does see all the junk. The problem is that all of Christendom sees it too. To finally let Him mold and shape their lives the way HE wants. For them to stop performing this message and to allow this Biblical message to actually grip their lives and become real.

    Could God use them again? Maybe, maybe not. If they try to manipulate it, it will not have any eternal value, but will only be wood, hay, and stubble. If true repentance does not happen, true brokenness seen, complete restitution made and experienced by those wronged, and forgiveness and healing sought without any excuse or justification to each and every one of the large number of people, families, and friends over the years in so many different ways they have hurt; then probably not. And if that is the case, whatever they say, do, or try to write about, or sing about from this point on is in reality, meaningless. And the truth is, if they truly get on the wheel and allow God to do what He needs to do, God may never let them ever become anything more than just a ‘teacup’ from this point forward. But that, is up to The Master Potter – and not them.

    Right now, we as Christians see them off the wheel by what is occurring, and not occurring in their lives – especially towards others in the Body of Christ they have horribly wronged. Maybe their message was just a façade for them all along. A way to make money. To become famous and known. To sell pots, CDs, and more, and collect offerings. That the heart of their message was simply for everyone else and not them. That they feel they do not need to be on the wheel. We truly, truly hope and pray not.

    The question remains, what legacy will Michael and Pam Rozell truly leave? Only time and their actions will tell what they will do and what they really believe. Will their life be led by The Master Potter, or the legal system. We will see.

  11. Em says:

    In my state bankruptcy does not dismiss wages owed, so these opportunist folks may find themselves… Lookin fer a home…. SAD SAD SAD

  12. RC, the answer is simple: wolves.

  13. This cultist potters field associated with Mud Man burgers here is a predator on young kids and about as far from religion as a poisonous snake

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