Prasch Unhinged

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100 Responses

  1. Dave Rolph says:

    That is hilarious! Even without the snarky edits.

  2. Michael says:

    I have to give him some points for passion… I guess.

  3. So is this what is happening on Sunday mornings out there?

    I think the bald guy up front kept leaning over to the wife saying “WTHeck”

    Why would this even come up? No Jesus for those people that fine day.

  4. Andy says:

    I’m no fan of Prasch. He’s a kook on many levels.

    But one comment you made here: “We have to learn to talk to each other”

    Knowing Prasch as I do, you have to consider the possibility that he doesn’t consider most people that claim to be Christians, to actually be Christians. So he’s not going to spend time “learning” to talk to someone that he agrees is a Christian, anyway.

  5. Andy says:

    My last sentence should say, “someone that he doesn’t agree is a Christian, anyway.”

  6. Michael says:

    Andy.

    I do understand that and find it tragic.

  7. RiBo says:

    Good stuff, I love Doctrine Wars! I think both Camps are wrong, which makes it especially entertaining. It’s like watching intellectual midgets…with one slightly more refined than the other…flailing at each other in a doctrinal/theological tough-man competition.

  8. RiBo says:

    I seriously don’t know which figures are more tragic…the ones like Pratsch who have no clue…but are so sincere in their cluelessness….or the ones like Phil Johnson and Johnny Mac and James White who really think they know something.

  9. RiBo says:

    I declare it a draw…they’re all idiots.

  10. EricL says:

    I agree with RiBo #9. I really tire of MacArthur’s spiteful ways and his cynical attempts to make more money by writing angry books that slander huge sections of Christianity. It looks like this Phil Johnson is his Mini Me.

    As for Pratsch, he just needs to be ignored.

  11. Andrew says:

    I seriously don’t know which figures are more tragic…the ones like Pratsch who have no clue…but are so sincere in their cluelessness….or the ones like Phil Johnson and Johnny Mac and James White who really think they know something.
    _________________________________________________________________

    Possibly the most tragic is those who selectively choose what they want to believe in regards to the Bible with a purely subjective interpretation that is based on nothing but consensus.

  12. RiBo says:

    I don’t choose it “from the bible”…there are certain universal truths which we can all agree on.

    Love your neighbor. Don’t molest kids or beat kids. Don’t hump the church secretary if you are not married to her and are the pastor telling others what to do from a pulpit. Don’t get rich off of soliciting people for money in the name of Jesus.

    You know, basic stuff like that.

  13. RiBo says:

    I view the bible as a secondary document…not a primary.

    God is God…the bible is a bound book with pages in it that are full of words that we are left with after much translating, transcribing, re-translation, re-transcribing, editing, editorializing, picking and choosing etc etc.

    “God” is spirit…not a book, not a text.

  14. pstrmike says:

    of note, there are 6 people in the audience.

  15. RiBo says:

    Both the Calvinist and the Charismatic have formed their own idols in the fashion they like…appealing to the same text, the same bible.

    I am personally outside of both of those bubbles and see the problems with both sides.

  16. RiBo says:

    “of note, there are 6 people in the audience.”

    A Prasch would say that is validation that the Remnant is small and that masses following other leaders just shows they are deceived because “wide is the path that leads to destruction!”

    LOL

    I can argue both sides in spades. 🙂

  17. Andrew says:

    RiBo, don’t be fooled because you are in your own bubble of unbelief.

  18. RiBo says:

    The truth is you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say.

    You throw something out there…I can defend a position “from the bible”

    It’s the nature of the subjectivity of appealing to text that in many places presents competing narratives, dual narratives…says one thing, then the exact opposite somewhere else etc.

  19. RiBo says:

    Andrew, I am no such “unbelief”

    I just don’t believe in you, I don’t believe in your gurus, I don’t believe in your Sects, I don’t believe in your doctrines, I don’t believe in your leaders.

    I believe in God.

  20. “God” is spirit…not a book, not a text.”

    Jesus Christ is God and is not a spirit.

    Can you tell me anything you know about God that is not in the Bible besides
    1.) he is there
    2.) He is powerful
    3.) He is pissed

    Without the Bible you know nothing else about God.

  21. Andrew says:

    RiBo, I am not sure who your God is.

  22. RiBo says:

    I have the purest and most defensible Belief System on here.

    I believe in God.

    I don’t believe in your particular interpretation of the bible and I don’t know what the bible really says, but I can point out that you don’t either.

  23. RiBo says:

    MLD, many cultures, religions etc came to that conclusion sans the bible.

  24. RiBo says:

    Don’t even try, it will end in the same manner…you’ll be exposes as idiots and the group will get frustrated b/c I will persistently support my position and demonstrate you don’t have a good answer and then the calls for banning and that I’m killing Michael’s cat, taking food from his table and destroying his blog.

    Just let me comment and then shut up and don’t respond.

  25. “MLD, many cultures, religions etc came to that conclusion sans the bible.”
    Hogwash! – Name one other religion that came to the conclusion Jesus Christ is God.

  26. Andrew says:

    I have the purest and most defensible Belief System on here.

    I believe in God.
    ______________________________________________________________

    It’s not defensible at all because you can’t even tell me who or what God is. Its all in your head and in your imagination.

  27. RB said “I believe in God.”

    In the spirit of relativism that you preach and open interpretation of clear words … what you are really saying is “I do not believe in God.!”

  28. RiBo says:

    MLD, you’re an idiot, you really are.

    Hindus believe Jesus Christ is “god” and achieved “god consciousness”

    Mormons believe Jesus Christ is part of the God-head and “God”

    Muslims believe Jesus is al-Mesih or the “messiah”

  29. RiBo says:

    Andrew, who or what is God?

    You say you know so much about him…does he have male genitalia? What does he look like?

  30. RiBo says:

    Andrew, is God “everywhere” or does he sit on a throne, with a buttocks? Simple questions. You say you know so much about “God” and who “he” is etc.

  31. Michael says:

    RiBo,

    You’re entitled to your views.
    Those of us who hold to an orthodox faith are entitled to ours as well and on this blog, without being referred to as idiots or intellectual midgets.
    Should someone refer to you in that manner I’d never hear the end of it.
    You’ve made your position known repeatedly here…and I feel no obligation to continue to host those things which contradict my faith and insult the brethren.

  32. Muslims and Mormons both got Jesus from the Bible – so, strike one and two on you.

    Hindus believe everyone is God – so they pick people out of all kids of holy books. – strike 3. – you are out.

  33. voigt51 says:

    With all said will Mac debate him

  34. RiBo says:

    You’d only not hear the end of it if I was not allowed to respond. I can defend myself quite well and prove I am not an intellectual midget or idiot.

  35. filbertz says:

    a rather prasch-like discussion shaping up here…

    Sadly, this video supports what Hugh said on another thread about scoffers and mockers & small churches…except Prasch touts the same theological position as Hugh.

  36. RiBo says:

    MLD, does the person who never heard the Gospel and never heard of Jesus…there are currently 2 Billion of such folks today…go to hell?

    What if they “love their neighbor” and love “god” in whatever form?

  37. Michael says:

    The discussion will soon come to a close.
    This is not what we’re going to be about.

  38. Andrew says:

    RiBo, your the one that said your belief is the most defensible. So defend your belief instead of attacking the Christian one. But all you know how to do is defend atheism.

  39. RiBo says:

    MLD, how did the Jews in the Old Testament hear about Jesus? No bible, correct?

    Are you saying the Jews/Hebrews pre-Jesus are all in hell?

  40. RiBo says:

    I stated my belief.

    I believe in God and I don’t know what the bible really says, it is full of competing narrative, contradictory narrative, says one thing then the exact opposite and there are 9,000 to 30,000 flavors of “correct” Christianity* that appeal to the same texts but come to vastly different conclusions as to what “this is what the bible says!”

    Do you dispute any of those facts?

  41. Andrew says:

    RiBo, believe it or not I consider John Mac and Jacob Prasch brothers but consider you outside of Christianity altogether.

  42. RiBo says:

    MLD, what saved Abraham? A “correct” doctrinal belief in Jesus Christ of the New Testament bible?

    Abraham was a Jew, correct? No bible, no Jesus, no correct doctrine.

    He had “faith”…in “God” and didn’t really know all the particulars, couldn’t have…Jesus was not known to him or anyone at that point…he had no clue of what the New Testament would end up stating in our modern text versions.

    I don’t know how it all works. I have “faith”.

    What I do know for certain is that you and your Sect and your leaders and gurus and interpretations and doctrines etc etc don’t know how it all works either. That I have faith in.

  43. I’m out of the discussion – too hard when words have no meaning.

  44. RiBo says:

    Andrew, I could care less what your opinion is. You are the typical evangelical idiot with no clue as to who or what God is. Your “god” is a text and an apologetic.

  45. Gary says:

    *Updating my ‘reviled lunatic’ scorecard.*

  46. RB,
    Back in for one second and promise tpo be out – but this is too good.

    “Andrew, I could care less what your opinion is. You are the typical evangelical idiot with no clue as to who or what God is. Your “god” is a text and an apologetic.”

    Almost verbatim what Prasch said about JMac and you called him an idiot. LOL 🙂

    Now gone

  47. RiBo says:

    Michael you posted a video that is about challenging other belief systems. You just get queasy when it is not your Calvinist brethren doing the deconstruction and making fun of things…and when it is turned on all of you, Calvinists included.

  48. RiBo says:

    Prasch is right, MacArthur is an idiot.

    MacArthur is right, Prasch is an idiot.

    I agree with both of them.

  49. Andrew says:

    RiBo, Your God is you and what ever you want it to be. I can’t argue with you on that. But this is not Christianity is any sense of the meaning.

  50. RiBo says:

    No, I do not believe I am God, in fact I know I am not God.

  51. Andrew says:

    But you haven’t told us who or what God is.

  52. Michael says:

    RiBo,

    I don’t like this kind of hatred and misrepresentation from any camp, including my own.
    I’ve worked hard to make this as ecumenical a place as possible within the frame of Christian orthodoxy.
    I believe that all of us in that broader tradition can learn from each other and grow spiritually as a result.
    Calling me and other believers idiots is not acceptable and I’m not going to allow it.
    Frankly, why should you bother interacting with people whom you have no respect for and find to be fools?
    That does nothing but create conflict and It’s not going to be allowed here.
    There is absolutely no point in it at all.

  53. Dusty says:

    RiBo, come on now….what happened. You were playing so nice for days….It may be time for you to go get some fresh air or ice cream….something other than calling us all fools. 🙁

  54. RiBo says:

    I’d respond but I’m being censored by the asshole.

  55. Please Note says:

    Good.

    Michael, you’ve been more than fair. Repeatedly.

  56. RiBo says:

    Michael is essentially calling Prasch a fool. I am calling everyone a fool.

    What’s the diff?

  57. RiBo says:

    Rank double standard and hypocrisy…and I’m just pointing it out.

    If you want to get in a Doctrine War pissing match and make fun of others…then I’m game. I’ll turn it on you…any of your groups and see how you like it.

    At the end of the day we’re all guessing and no one really has much of a clue….yet the Calvinists seem to couch their calling all others idiots in slightly more polite terms.

  58. Dusty says:

    WOW RiBo!

  59. RiBo says:

    I also don’t lie about it or couch it and I’m not sly about it.

  60. RiBo says:

    What is the purpose of posting the video?

  61. Dusty says:

    RiBo, does not seem that you are being moderated so I would ask that you please stop and take a deep breath and walk away for a while.

  62. Dusty says:

    RIBO, you think it’s ok to call me a fool? You called everyone Idiots! so that would include me. I have always been nice to you and even defended you. I don’t know 1/2 the stuff you all debate about but I am trying to learn…it is difficult to learn from someone who thinks of you as an idiot. 🙁 that makes me sad to have one less person to learn from.

  63. Michael says:

    Comments are open.
    Please keep them completely on topic and there will be no personality conflicts allowed.
    I won’t be monitoring, but I’ll see in the morning.

  64. I never actually listened to Prasch and was led to believe he was impressive and thorough. I was stunned by this clownish attack. Is this common? Is he always so woefully inaccurate? Is he always so dismissive of opponents without proper content? I was stunned.

  65. brian says:

    I listened to Pastor Prasch and hurt my head because I kept banging it on my desk. But when Phil Johnson added his nonsense it made me sick. I literally cannot stand Mr. Johnson (I make 250+K a year that is what I can see but may not be accurate). The guy makes bank on the coattails of JM. When I read Battle for the Beginning that I think Phillips edits, and the other titles where JM takes on science. In every single assertion JM loses hands down it is not even a discussion and there is not a controversy. Personally I picture this clown car filled with folks who squeek their horns waddle around in the big red shoes and a funny nose. I mean no disrespect, but well actually I mean a great deal of disrespect, just like they inflict on those that dont past JM muster. JM blatantly misrepresents opponents on many levels. Curses Charismatics for income issues, but JM makes bank and he is sitting fat and happy on his industry. I do not fault him that, if you can make bank on Jesus, fine, its business and this is a free country, but when you bemone others who are in the same industry but are competition I scratch my head.

    I know the whole evolution topic makes people frustrated, but JM dismisses it out of hand, quoting romans one suggesting that the majority of scientist are involved in some cosmic conspiracy per romans one. Dont take this the wrong way, but that is totally stupid, ignorant, etc. We live in a world and we use the millions of advancements given us via the scientific method, fine you dont buy it, stop using those instruments / advancements. I could be wrong, I can state that, I want to be corrected. JM and Mr. Johnson, cant do the same their theology does not allow them to be wrong and any point whatsoever. And people call me arrogant, I dont hold a candle to these folks.

  66. brian says:

    Again I mean no disrespect, I am not a scientist, one time someone said brian stop posting because you dont know what you are talking about. Im my post I said that, I dont know what I am talking about concerning biology, paleontology, cosmology etc. I admitted that, and literally begged for some push back. I got Answers in Genesis and Ken Ham. Sorry he is not credible. I dont know why it would bother Christians if we evolved. I really truly dont understand it. It does make us look at it closer and question our theology but if evolutionary theory develops vaccines, and other medical interventions, why would we fight that?

    I get the theological ideology, of evolution and the YEC world view. But the standard answer of science so called does not answer it. There are huge amount of Data that support the ToE. It could be wrong and many of the mechanisms are in discussion but to dismiss it out of hand based on one interpretation of text that is not from a scientific world view. I dont pull this stuff out of my backside, it relates to my only concern, the students I work with. I have seen what medical advances have helped them, and modern biology is based on evolutionary theory. So it led me down this road. The same with mental illness issues. This blog has tried to deal with it and it is a struggle. Are people with mental illness demon possessed. In time past, most would have said yes, the pain this has caused is untold. I find such a belief completely stupid I loath it. But that is an emotional response. I see bob Lar$on casting out demons from some woman that is struggling with a mental illness. Bob cast the demon out, then she returns for another exorcism.

    I get Bob’s right to make money, that is holy, trust me I really believe that because at heart I am a constitutionalist. Buyer be ware. But I am troubled by what he does. Like I said I dont pull this out of my backside, it is where I live. It is convoluted and I hope folks get my point. I have seen modern medicine and behavior interventions helped folks I work worked with that tried to stab their one remaining eyeball out of her head. I stuck my hand in the way and she went right down to the bone. Call it emotional, but the last I heard she no longer tried to rip her hair out down to her skull. I agree, this does not have any use in doctrinal issues as it is emotional, and emotion is evil, always unless it supports the apologetic. Look people this is where I live, my entire adult life and I dont make it up. I cant say specifics do to privacy issues. I am just trying to understand. Offered for what very little I am sure its worth.

  67. brian says:

    Above all, please pray for me I have failed God so many times.

  68. Apologia says:

    Sad video.

    1 Cor 13:2

    “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.”

  69. brian says:

    Offered for what its worth I wish I could pray RB and his healing would be realized. It does not work that way I cant. I wish we could see some healing. I would not want that for me personally because God loathes people who have a need, any need.

  70. Nonnie says:

    Dread asked, ” Is he always so woefully inaccurate? Is he always so dismissive of opponents without proper content?

    Not always and Yes. (in my opinion)

  71. Apologia says:

    There are some substances on this planet that are so toxic, so radioactive, that regardless of any material benefit or usefulness that they might pose, there is no protection so strong or mitigation so necessary that they would make handling that substance worth the risk or detriment of doing so.

    Acids are acids, alkali are alkali; the lay person might imagine that one is bad and one is good, balance, yin and yang. The scientific reality is that both are beneficial, and while they may appear to be equal and opposite, excessive strength in either is also equally destructive. Acidic. Caustic. Same effect for different reasons.

    If you thought Paul Smith was a tough ‘authority’ to handle for a careless approach to research and a less than fluent writing style, or that George Bryson was tough to handle for his from-the-hip writing and issues with spelling, or that Roger Oakland rambled like a madman, you’ve seen nothing.

    I’ve never encountered anyone so proud of their horrific research and ignorance, pseudo-intellectual incoherence on paper, and self-declared Scriptural authority. You could never prevail any form of debate or criticism against JP or his disciples, because you will never be considered intelligent enough, Spiritual enough, educated enough, internationally renowned enough. You will always be a heretic, a deceiver, a clown, a fool, a lunatic, an ignoramus. You will either agree with them, or you can join the damned or the deceived. It goes without saying that the number of people who escape such classification and find themselves approved could barely fill Catalina.

  72. Puzzletop says:

    Thank you, Nonnie.

  73. surfer51 says:

    Michael has always shown love to our resident cynic many times.

    At times the disruption caused by him can take center stage and yet Michael still shows love.

    I do ponder the points being made and it does not shake my Christian foundation when our beloved cynic goes on a rant.

    I can only wonder what motivates such cynicism, and is there ever alcohol involved? I truly do think about this.

    May God Almighty soothe the troubled soul of our cynic. May the Holy Spirit reveal Himself with the manifest presence of Himself in an unmistakable way that will penetrate any and all obstacles.
    ***

    Mexico City just experienced a 7.4 earth quake. Please remember these people in your prayers today.

  74. Bob says:

    First time I’ve heard of Prasch and I ask myself this, “Why would anyone actually listen to this guy?

  75. Something about pseudo-intellectual people with an affect in their voice and a stride in their walk. “The simple believe every word…”

  76. Jim says:

    RiBo,

    If you and I were neighbors, we’d be friends. When you come on a Christian site and insult what is most important to those who frequent the site, you are an bleep.

    When you make Michael’s life harder just for fun, you are an bleep.

    You’re a good guy- please act like one.

  77. Jim says:

    Michael “bleeped” me! 🙂

  78. Please Note says:

    Yeah, but it came through the ‘feed’ the way you wrote It, so I know what you said. 😉

    Don’t feel bad; I had a whole post taken away (but I deserved it, it was in a similar vein)

    Jim the Road Runner Sheep…..BLEEP-BLEEP ! 🙂

  79. Rick Bob says:

    “I can only wonder what motivates such cynicism, and is there ever alcohol involved? I truly do think about this.”

    LOL! That is hilarious. No. I only drink socially with friends at pubs/restaurants or at house parties/get-togethers.

    All my blogging is done at work or home where I don’t drink (unless we’re hosting a dinner party or special event and then I’m not blogging.

    Plus, I’ve cut way back since about Nov. of last year.

    Why does everyone need an excuse for me being a persistent a-hole?

    Guess what…I’ll let you in on a little secret…I’m a cynical/skeptical/critical thinker by nature and if you want to hang your hat on “blame”…my a-hole-ness is probably due to the very ritualistically abusive upbringing.

  80. Rick Bob says:

    Jim, bleep you you bleepity bleep bleep bleep!

    Now we’re even 🙂

  81. Rick Bob says:

    Is “bleep” like “moral failure”? 🙂

  82. Francisco says:

    If the his purpose is simply to entertain his audience , he does a fine job.

  83. Charles says:

    I think Jacob Prasch has a lot of good points to his teaching, though I strongly disagree with some of his veering towards the book of Enoch and teaching regarding the Nephilim (possibly due to his associations with Chuck Missler)….BUT, that in my books is very minor. HOWEVER, I strongly disagree with Jacob’s approach to addressing the false teachers. When I say ‘addressing’ I don’t mean the fact he does address them, but the manner in which he does. I’m gonna pray for him, because he is doing the right thing by standing up to heresies but we all have to make sure we walk and talk according to the spirit, letting the Spirit dictate our words, our demeanour and emotions. I feel too much of the flesh – mainly the anger which sometimes borders on contempt and the reviling – is tainting the truth of what he preaches.

    John McArthur is a more dangerous wolf than all of the WoF hall of shamers put together because he teaches more truth, and presents a more refined and slick lie than most I’ve ever seen/ heard. But his teachings on the deity of Christ, the hyper Calvinist theology which has led him to preach a deceptive lie that one can commit suicide and still be saved…and taking the mark of the beast won’t lead to eternal damnation…WOAH!! This guy hypocritically smears charismaniac teachers with his ‘Strange Fire’ conference but brings in heretical teachings rivalling Joyce Meyer. He is more dangerous than Joseph Prince. So Jacob is right in tackling this satanic wolf once and for all, and his cohort Phil Johnson…

    …But please Jacob, please for the sake of the true remnant and any that have been led astray by McArthur…please pray for God’s Spirit to help temper the anger and refrain your tongue from any insulting words. I say this in love, not to patronise or criticise. You are doing the right thing, just do not give the enemy any room to pick holes or throw accusations.

    These are end times, and satan’s tares are going to be showing up all over the place. I believe believers need to be cautious on McArthur and his associates. The video shown here is pretty disgusting behaviour, from Prasch and Phil Johnson in the snarky comments. Jacob lets his anger control his tongue, and McArthur/ Phil Johnson let their egotistical haughtiness and borderline abusive mocking/ reviling way too apparent. It’s utterly disgusting behaviour. If any of us claim to have faith in the true Messiah, Jesus Christ, and we claim to have HIS blood over our lives, and have HIS law written on our HEARTS, then out of the goodness from Christ flowing through your hearts LET YOUR MOUTH SPEAK. If you can only produce arrogant, inflammatory and vile behaviour and speech leave your lips then do not blaspheme or dishonour my Lord. Do not disrespect his sacrifice on the cross by tarnishing the reputation of his saints with your behaviour. And that is that.

  84. Michael says:

    Charles,

    Rarely does the blog produce the stupidest comment of the week on the first day of the week.

    Congratulations.

    Suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

    Such horrific teaching has harmed many.

    It will not be allowed here.

  85. Charles says:

    James White is another teacher, like Prasch who has so many solid teachings but allows his ego and the fleshy arrogance to taint his ministry…not all the time but a little too much for my liking still…But John Mac’s flawed theology mixed with his arrogant antics is purely detestable. He does not deserve to falsely claim the title of a believer let alone teach my Lord’s people and rob them off their money in the process.

  86. Michael says:

    John MacArthur is utterly orthodox and I have no questions about his election.

    Take this kind of nonsense elsewhere.

  87. Charles says:

    Michael,

    I would love to see how you interpret 1 John 5:16. Please.

    Also, clarify how my comment qualifies as stupidity. And I base my opinions on McArthurs integrity based on the objective truth of God’s Word; teaching people lies as serious as ‘taking the mark of the beast is forgiveable’ is something I cannot accept on any level. And then his repugnant arrogance, and totally inerrant theology on the cessation of gifts, I’ve read his teachings regarding Jesus only being the Son of God post incarnation and not pre-incarnation….my goodness, how can anyone honestly support any of this? If you base your faith on God’s Word, tell me how can one support this man?

  88. Charles says:

    *totally errant theology on the cessation of the gifts

  89. Michael says:

    Anyone who believes that suicide is unforgivable or leads directly to damnation is not only stupid but cruel, without any concept of the grace of God.

    I will not allow any assertion otherwise on this blog and will ban anyone who dares spout such filth on it.

    MacArthur affirms the creeds of the early church and is well within the bounds of orthodoxy.

    You disagree with him on some secondary issues.

    So do I…but his is a brother…one who is often prophetic, ironically.

  90. Michael says:

    By the way…Mac reversed his position on eternal sonship.

    I guess you missed that…
    http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A235/reexamining-the-eternal-sonship-of-christ

  91. Charles says:

    Michael,

    Okay, upon reading that article I take back the comment regarding his position on eternal sonship.

    BUT, in the same breath you claim my comments on suicide are ‘filth’ you also use a derrogatory term ‘stupid’, which, in the English language alludes to the same semantic meaning as ‘idiot’, ‘fool’, ‘dumb’ or ‘half-wit’. Whiles my statements have been strong, I have not stated any verbal abuse. But I do not hold that against you as I understand you feel passionately about your stance on suicide. As do I. Perhaps I think it is more harmful to teach that a sin – like suicide, which is a sin that, quite obviously, leads to death – is forgiveable. I base my statement not only because I have had a family member throw themself out the second story window of my house but also because the Word of God makes clear indication on the severity of sin which leads unto death. I would not wish to encourage any person that sinning is okay, but am totally for preaching fogiveness and faith to overcome, but suicide is something I’d rather steer people away from totally. Personally, knowing the trauma it causes to families, I am utterly for warning people away from it. Exegetically I stand on strong ground.

  92. Anon says:

    As a human being, you’re on solid ground to dissaude other human beings from suicide.

    “John McArthur is a more dangerous wolf than all of the WoF hall of shamers put together”

    Wow. That’s one of the most bumbleheaded things I’ve ever heard. They’re not even in the same category. Not anywhere near.

    You seem not to understand theological distinctions and scope. Whether one believes the spiritual gifts are active today is a very minor thing.

    The major things are set out in the Church’s creeds. The deity of Christ, etc.

  93. charles says:

    My concerns about JM aren’t based on his cessationist theology or his Calvinist theology (although I believe both Calvinism and cessationism are unscriptural)
    My major concerns are with his statements regarding the mark of the beast. Probably down to yet another poor exegetical view of a pre-trib rapture and extremely arrogant disregard for any warnings or commands given by Jesus himself. His teaching is false, and can lead people to hell. He’s solid in most other areas which is why I believe he is dangerous.

  94. Michael says:

    Charles,

    I’m the blog owner…and a Calvinist because I am convinced of it’s truth from the Scriptures.

    You seem to be of the opinion that 1 John 5 is speaking about physical death when the context is obviously speaking of eternal life.

    No one wants or encourages someone to take their own life.
    However, doing so does not remove someone from the grace of God.
    We will not agree.
    Move on.

  95. charles says:

    Okay, upon meditating on The Word I can see how a person’s infirmities can leave them helpless to making the wrong decision and a good example would be king Saul…I think it’s an issue, like many spiritual afflictions that I would rather see the church deal with how Jesus and the disciples did which was to cast out the demons that were oppressing people. Then again most people label spiritual affliction as ‘mental/ psychological disorders’. But at the same time, taking ones own life can also be a spiritual rejection of God’s grace, resulting in the physical action.
    Still, I do think the ‘stupid’ remark is unnecessary as a brother in Christ.
    Regarding Calvinism I guess we can agree to disagree.
    Regarding MacArthur’s stance on the mark, it is complete and utter heresy and dangerous at that. On top of the arrogance and mockery he and Phil Johnson display I am extremely weary…

  96. patrick says:

    Lets see the public debate between Jacob P. and John Mac – it’s the latter who hasnt yet repsonded.

    Since Phil. is doing the talking for John Mac – maybe he should debate publicly if he has the knowledge and debating skilss which I doubt.

    Lastly, James White also slanders Jacob P. as ‘unhinged’. He should either back his opinion in a public debate with Jacob. P, or withdraw it. It isnt Jacob Prasch who’s running away. J. Prasch, although can get heated, and be blunt, would intellectually make mincemeat of all three.

  97. currey says:

    Back up your opinions with Book and verse, otherwise it’s just people sounding off. And there is very little evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in most of the remarks. the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control Gal 5:22-23.

    Sadly I see no evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in either Jacob or John. They are superb teachers, so they have a gift of the Spirit, Rom 12:6-7, and that is wonderful for Christians, and yet we must be bereans and search the scriptures to be satisfied that they are correct.

    I must admit I have been very disappointed in the lack of gentleness and fair treatment by these men to those that disagree with them. Whatever happened to “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

    Oh, what a mighty God we have, kind, gentle, loving, fair, patient, sacrificial. How is it so few Christians fit that bill? Even so, come, Lord Jesus come.

  98. Michael says:

    Prasch is a fat sack of theological crap…a raving loon without manners or style.

    That’s all I’ve got.

  99. currc says:

    I’m not surprised that John Macarthur denigrates Jacob Prasch as Jacob has challenged him on saying we can take the “mark” and still be saved, and that the “blood” of Jesus has no meaning. I’ts all on the internet, and Jacob has suggested a debate, but John doesn’t deign to even answer the challenge.

    The bible is the word of God and you have to study the whole thing and get the gist of it and not just a verse that suits you, as most preachers do. You must dig for the treasure yourself if you want the gold.

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