Somethings Rotten In Montana…

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70 Responses

  1. Michael says:

    Forgot to open comments…my apologies.

  2. Class action says:

    Seriously.
    Someone needs to organize a class action suit ASAP and find a way for the victims to communicate. Don’t let these snake in the grass, Judas Iscariot, shady-ass criminals get away with any of this!

  3. Jan says:

    Well put, there seems to little of No transparency. Sounds like par for the course.
    More public information needs to be disclosed.

  4. Michael.
    There is something very wrong here.

    Random thoughts in no particulare order…
    – I glanced at PFM ministries Charity Navigator page. It’s a less then 2M/year corporation. They clearly can’t do all of what is purported on this amount. There are obviously numerous related corporations.
    – Based upon online discriptions, Mike Rozell is not an international CEO. He just is not.
    So who is?
    -Why do we asume PFM is a stand alone entity/network of entities?
    -Mike Rosell is discribed as a potter. An artist. Artist are not associated with personality types that create multi-national organizations, even if they are not suffering from instability.
    -PFM has massve claims potentialy pending. Liquidating assets would not prevent a claw-back attempt. However, PFM did have associations in foreigne locations out of reach of any claw-back.

    Michael. I wonder if you have set off a run for the border.

  5. JM says:

    Michael–thank you so much for continuing to report on this. I get sad that, as much as I want to see the victims validated and helped, I am also drawn to this situation because of my own past experiences with CC that are mirrored here. (I am among many, I know.) And… CC is the one “cleaning up” the mess!? It’s like the person who molested your child being allowed to babysit them again!

  6. Michael says:

    We need to be clear about something.
    There is no “CC”…This is a back alley deal between two guys who are affiliated with one of the CC spinoffs, but it’s not official…they really have no official authority at all.

  7. Midwife says:

    As my Mom always said: “there’s something rotten in the cotton”.

  8. Em says:

    Class action lawsuit? Press conference? YEP !

  9. Michael says:

    They may be selling off assets before the lawsuits come…

  10. richard says:

    Color me skeptical, but I doubt that Acts 2 will be a model for the disbursement of funds and property.

    And the Rozells will get theirs too.

  11. Steve says:

    I just realized something that wasn’t obvious to me. Calvary Chapel godspeak and McCoy are located in California , where as the PFM was located in Whitefish, MT about 1400 miles away. I just went to the handy-dandy church locator on the CCA website and see that there is infact a CCA church located right in Whitefish, MT and all the churches have a regional leader. I believe Don McClure set up the territorial boundaries. So I kind of assumed that the local CC church would be more involved with cleaning up the spiritual mess along with the regional CC leader and less the political church from CA getting involved. Otherwise the territorial CCA leadership map across the country is quite misleading.

  12. JM says:

    My comments were based upon CC Pastor McCoy’s long term position as CEO of PFM doing the clean up. I didn’t mean to go beyond and imply something more “official” than that. CC is very good at keeping themselves just outside of legal culpability anyway. We saw that in many molestation cases. Morally they suck, but legally they win.

  13. wwG1WGA says:

    Stop this madness… This is blatant mafia extortion and corruption… Please Michael, be relentless is the coverage of this typical CC 501c3 ripoff scandal as there are millions of jesu$ dollar$ at stake donated by innocent sheep, being stolen by the good ole boys of the CCA!!! Right (Godfather) Don???

  14. Michael says:

    My guess at this point (only a guess)…is that McClure got the short end of a big stick…

  15. JM says:

    Have you ability to explain how McClure got the “short end” at this time, Michael?
    Though history makes it difficult, I really do not want to assume the wrong thing here.

  16. WWG1WGA says:

    Maybe Don didn’t bend over far enough??? Sorry but thats how I feel!

  17. JM says:

    It appears that I must go, but will check back later.

  18. Michael says:

    We don’t know anything for sure because so much smoke is being blown.
    However, we now know that this plan had to be in place before we were aware of the scandal.
    We also know that the assets have to go to another non profit.
    It would seem logical that Don McClure would have been the recipient of the booty from this tragedy…but McCoy comes out of left field and takes over.
    I have lots of questions…

  19. Steph says:

    At what point does this become national news? It’s worthy of a much larger investigation. People in CCs across the country (and world!) have been donating funds for years! Some are just finding out about this scandal today. There are others still writing checks that have no idea!!!

  20. JD says:

    How a “ministry” became a minus Three. 🙁

  21. aerial says:

    I have a feeling that the “hurry” is due to a much more depraved transgression than has been indicated. And there is a cover-up in process. Hopefully the rabbit hole that is just beginning to appear will reveal ALL of the players in what may very well be a multi-tiered set of crime rings. Much like the nine circles of hell in Dante’s Inferno…

  22. Very Concerned says:

    Questions that need to be answered:

    1. Normally there is a lapse of 30, 60, or even 90 days to allow all creditors to file claims for any debts owed by a business, corporation, or estate. What published notice of a legal time frame has PFM given its creditors?

    2. Under Montana legal codes, another corporation cannot take over for 120 days. How is this different?

    3. Proof from the Montana Dept. Of Revenue that all taxes have been filed and no taxes are due. This usually takes at minimum a couple of weeks… How has this been expedited?

    4. Secretary of State must have issued the certificate of dissolution. That normally is dependent upon clarification of any tax issues. So, a minimum 2 weeks again. Who filed the Articles of Dissolution for PFM and all of its entities and when was it filed? Why is there such a rush?

    Too many unanswered questions here.

  23. Duane Arnold says:

    All,

    Michael’s information in the article is very accurate.

    Now, what can you do? You can do the following:

    If you have been a donor, volunteer or employee of Potter’s Field Ministries, or Potter’s Field Ranch, or have contributed to their overseas mission work, you may make a complaint about their activities to the Montana Department of Justice here: https://dojmt.gov/consumer/file-non-profit-organization-complaint/

    That is a first step…

  24. Very Concerned says:

    Pay attention to “Benefits of Formal Dissolution” …

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-dissolve-nonprofit-corporation-montana.html

    This will put Michael and Pam and PFM beyond touch by any creditors or claimants!

  25. directambiguity says:

    Unless someone with money steps up, financially it’s probably over. The best thing you can do is get the word out so people stop sending money.

  26. directambiguity says:

    If anyone sends money now it won’t be used for the purpose they think and wasn’t before will not come back to them.

    Sorry.

    I think God will reward people that gave money because they loved him and did it for that reason.

  27. Em says:

    Whitefish Mt. is not a little wide spot in the road… It is pretty much a PNW version of Aspen… Surely the press will be on this, if it gets on their radar ? ? ?

  28. Bene D says:

    I agree with Duane.

    Someone who had a connection to Potter’s Field Ministries such as a donor, intern, volunteer or employee needs to make a call to the Montana Department of Justice – ask some questions and file a complaint if necessary.

    As Very Concerned points out – have creditors, taxes and notice of dissolution been addressed?
    How would anyone know?

    This smells to high heaven.

    Hopefully reporters will make inquiry calls, but it’s helpful if concerned citizens to step up.

  29. MM says:

    Just so you know if you look PFM in the Montana Corp Filings there are four CCs using PFM corporate umbrella.

    Selah, Whitefish, Columbia Falls and Kalispell.

    The organization is very involved with CC.

  30. MM says:

    OOPs I stand corrected 5 CCs under the PFM umbrella, Lakeside is included.

  31. Duane Arnold says:

    All

    Additionally, may I point out that the “usual” purpose of this blog is providing commentary on Church Issues, Links to stimulating articles, devotionals, etc. It is not, in the main, exhaustive investigative journalism.

    Michael has done (and is doing) this gratis, spending 8-10 hours a day, chasing leads, conducting interviews, writing up articles. He is deserving of our support. There is no corporate structure behind this blog. It is “homegrown”. If you share the values of this site, join me in supporting Michael’s work…

    Many thanks…

  32. My name doesn’t matter says:

    Explain to me please why I should sue them?
    Because there are many things I don’t understand at this point.
    1) I freely chose
    2) I knew what I was signing up for
    3) this was never for my personal gain
    4) is it biblical to sue?
    5) do you know that you are sowing discord among the brothers?

    And really I have read all the testimonies, I am on of these people who has been hurt. What hurts more than all that happened is watch “christians” you everyone on here, everyone in MT and everyone outside rip each other to shreds…. God is not glorified in this. He was glorified in the calling out of sin, but was not in how this was handled on here, and or how it still is.

  33. Michael says:

    You knew you were signing up for abuse and slander?
    Seek therapy.
    When the church refuses to deal with these issues biblically, then I believe that it is not only biblical, but necessary to use civil remedies.

  34. Doesn’t mater says:

    I signed up for long hours, I was spiritual abused I did not sign up for that. I was not slandered.

    Give me biblical context for your thoughts of “if the church doesn’t handle it biblically then we should handle it in a civil suit”

  35. Doesn’t matter says:

    Because of all of this that has happened, I am boarding on giving up on being a Christian. Before you take my words twist them let me be specific.

    The back bitting, the way everything has been handle on all 3 sides. The CCA, what was PFM and yours. Where does the bible encourage any of these behaviours?

  36. Michael says:

    If you could remain in the faith after what Rozell did, believers seeking justice shouldn’t faze you. It actually encourages me.

    A class action suit would be filed against a business entity which as such, cannot be “Christian”.

    Such an action is necessary at this point to make the believers involved and the church whole and will stand as an act of righteousness and justice.

  37. Doesn’t matter says:

    Does the Lord take joy in the death of the wicked?

    What’s does God hate?

    We have given our opinions, but what does the bible say?

    Because no where once in all of these articles do you inform us about what the bible says and why this is wrong. “An online community of faith” more like “an online community of your opinions on news” where is the word of God in all of this what does God say I have been sick of people talking just to hear their own voice. What’s God’s opinion? Does God want me to sue? Does God want me to take revenge?

  38. Michael says:

    Let me make something really clear.
    I’m not a fundamentalist, nor do I interpret the Bible as one.
    The Bible speaks clearly to matters of justice and righteousness and that the people of God should pursue such with vigor.
    I don’t want to see anyone else hurt and I want the hurting to be made whole.
    If that is against your faith, you do not have to participate.

  39. Doesn’t matter says:

    There are six things which the Lord hates,
    Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers. Proverbs 6:16-19
    I am posting this because I know of 2 people who are very big in this who have lied in their testimonies and I praying that they read this. I am also praying the Lord steps in.
    There are people who have devised evil plans… the Lord is not pleased with those plans.

  40. Doesn’t matter says:

    Why are you afraid to answer my questions or are you just unwilling?

  41. Michael says:

    Doesn’t matter,

    You’re boring me.
    The evidence against the Rozells is weighty.
    Reject it as you will.

  42. Doesn’t matter says:

    I am not rejecting anything. It’s only bowering to you because you can’t write a story.

    Why are you unwilling to answer the questions?

  43. Michael says:

    I have answered your questions.
    In your tradition you think a theological argument is pulling out proof texts and trying to bludgeon people with them.
    In my tradition we honor the text, but see it as a narrative about how God works in the world to redeem it.
    A big part of the narrative is standing in opposition to injustice and oppression and wickedness among the people of God.
    I’ll let you plow through the concordance for proof texts on that…

  44. Doesn’t matter says:

    Pastor, teacher and writing????

    Being a pastor and yet unwilling to pastor?
    Being a teacher and yet unwilling to answer questions?

  45. Doesn’t matter says:

    Theological argument?

    I’m not looking for an argument I am trying to understand now your perspective on scripture.

    In my tradition:
    I read my bible (just like you do)
    I study it (just like you do)
    I apply it (just like you do)
    I let it lead me (just like you do)

    I am not looking for argument, but I am not wondering more… who hurt you so badly?

  46. Michael says:

    Doesn’t matter.

    I am doing all of this with one hand as I had surgery on the other one a couple of days ago.
    I’ve tried to explain this to you, but I don’t think you understand anything but proof texting.
    I’m not going to be able to fix that in one night, nor do I care to try at this juncture.
    If the site offends you, click away.

  47. Doesn’t mater says:

    The site does not offended me, and I am sorry about your hand. Hopefully your surgery went well.

    I am not offended.

    I just have more and more questions…

    I’m praying for a speedy recovery and that the pain would not be to much for you.

  48. Michael says:

    This is an old tactic that has been used here for almost two decades.
    That is, to make me the issue instead of those who actually are doing harm.
    It didn’t work well then, nor will it now.

  49. Doesn’t matter says:

    You are not the issue; don’t think yourself highly.

    You are one of the remaining 2 CCA, and you.

    Again have a speedy recovery, also I am glad to see that God has blessed you with a platform.
    Make to use for His glory and not your own.

  50. McGarrett says:

    Doesn’t Matter,

    If your confusion on this blog is real and not manufactured, then please seek Therapy.

  51. John 3: 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

    Don’t enable the cover up of darkness.

  52. Doesn’t matter says:

    Victor thank you.

  53. Doug says:

    Something tells me your name DEFINITELY matters….

  54. Bene D says:

    Something else is rotten in Montana – a Christian Ranch outside Rexford was closed down.

    27 children were removed by the Dept. of Public Health and Human Services because of allegations of neglect, physical and psychological abuse and medical neglect.

    The ranch residents (adoptees ) were there because of Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder and Reactive Attachment Disorder.

    Care staff get $10/hr and don’t have to be trained/certified in special needs/at-risk issues.

    If you look at The Ranch for Kids About page – they had re-licensing issues.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/montana-removes-27-children-youth-treatment-ranch-alleging-egregious-abuse-n1034281

    “The state action comes after years of licensing disputes between the state and the ranch, which says it is an adjunct ministry of Epicenter International Missions, and less than a month after a state law took effect that moved such children’s programs under the jurisdiction of the Health Department.”

    The Ranch appears to be connected to an adoption agency in Bel Air Maryland. (Global Adoption Services Inc.?)

  55. WWG1WGA says:

    Doug: “Something tells me your name DEFINITELY matters….”

    By a vowel for $20 million?

    MICHA-L ROZ- LL?

  56. Pineapple Head says:

    Wow, the flow of conversation from “doesn’t matter” almost mirrors an email exchange I recently had with a man who decided to stand up at the end of a worship service and barking questions. I had only one instruction for him: sit down. His train of thought bounced around with the same staccato questioning, accusations and spiritualizing seen here. Crazy making!

  57. MM (Mud Man, but not PFM) says:

    Doesn’t Matter:

    You said this:

    “Where does the bible encourage any of these behaviors”

    And then you do the typical thing of quoting/twisting scripture out of context to make your point.

    If you read the bible from cover to cover it is all about justice, process and fairness to the weak in God’s creation. His instructions and narratives make it clear His creation, us, have both a commission and a responsibility to act in a way, flawed as it may be, to protect and be just in all our transactions in life.

    The men and leaders of PFM, CC and in fact any other human endeavor, deserve the scrutiny of those who rely on and support them. If they fail, or even appear to fail, they deserve a just day in court and not a lynching.

    The only problem with the internet is the tendency to become the “wild west” and call for a lynching/hanging without due due process. The danger is we can figuratively destroy people through blogs, instagram and all the social media with out the process of justice God prescribes.

    By the way, Christianity is marred by the men and women who bring pain and suffering to others and by those who fail to stand up for the weak and innocent in our circles.

    I believe we join in and essentially become part of the sin of the wicked by ignoring the pain they bring on the weak.

    We should be crying over the suffering of others and not turning our eyes away.

    That is the message of the text!!!

  58. Em says:

    Just skimming the comments this morning, but it occurs to me that it might benefit some of the confused to read 2Corinthians (just came off of reading ch. 7 this a.m.).
    When we make decisions, no matter our intent, that are not God’s intent for His Kingdom, we must repent and, i think, repair where possible. .
    I know nothing of this situation but what i have read here and it doesn’t look good for those who headed PFN… Duck and cover doesn’t cut any ice with God.
    Or so it seems to me from here today. 🙏

  59. JM says:

    Hmmmm…wonder if this math works…”Doesn’t Matter” = SHILL

  60. Will Whosoever says:

    MM Said:

    “If you read the bible from cover to cover it is all about justice, process and fairness to the weak in God’s creation”

    Really? … What Bible do you read? I suggest you read the Bible “cover to cover” again to make sure you know what the Bible is really “all about”…

  61. Robyn Peery says:

    Disgusted by all of this. My husband and I have given monthly for five years only to receive anything BUT a transparent email yesterday from Rob McCoy – his statements attempting to say none of this happened due to mishandling of funds was so contrived. We’re done!

  62. MM says:

    Will

    It’s sad to read this from you:

    “Really? … What Bible do you read? I suggest you read the Bible “cover to cover” again to make sure you know what the Bible is really “all about”…”

    It tells me you have no idea what it says.

    How people, who say they love God and Messiah, treat others is everything.

    To bad we don’t have the time or space to get through it, because it starts in the beginning and ends on the last page.

    Have you not forgotten the teaching about your neighbor?

    Very sad comment and says a lot.

  63. MM says:

    Will

    BTW I might point out you did the typical thing of not quoting in context. Those who abuse the text are very good at that.

    Who’s your neighbor?

  64. JM says:

    Robyn Peery,
    I wonder if there is a way to post that email here?
    (I would defer to whatever our host, Michael, says is possible.)

  65. Michael says:

    I could post it if she sends it to me…I’ve seen the one he’s sending out…

  66. JM says:

    I am most curious to see that email. Hope it will happen.

  67. Jeff says:

    We lost our community, our source of income, our home, and lived in fear for years. Sending me a check for suffering isn’t ungodly in the least. It actually puts something tangible with what we have yet to hear, which is, ” we’re sorry, we screwed up royally, please forgive us for manipulating you, indoctrinating you, publicly shaming you, and causing you to lose all that you worked for and loved.”

    This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

  68. TJB says:

    Robyn Peery, would you consider uploading the letter from McCoy for all of us to see.? May give more info that could be helpful.

  69. CM says:

    I wonder if anyone is looking at PFM and its associated organizations, companies, etc. combined with the abuse and labor law violations at either at state or federal RICO lens….

  70. Jerod says:

    Any PFM or CC person responsible for this mess must acknowledge that God uses the government of man to judge the sins of those who bear his name. It’s a recurring theme from Judges through Romans. Doesn’t Matter must realize this.

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