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86 Responses

  1. Dan from Georgia says:

    All I can say is…

    Amen.

  2. John 20:29 says:

    i’m sitting here celebrating the wisdom in this post today … you’ve made the application, Michael – there is no other one

    are we looking for virtue to justify our choice? as Christians must we do that? from the standpoint of the commerce of the world, wouldn’t competence be the standard? hmmm… competent at what? thinking, thinking….

  3. Jean says:

    The future of our country may depend on a reformation of many of our churches. I don’t see the principles for reconciliation coming from any other institution. If there’s one thing our country needs on many levels, it’s reconciliation, listening, bearing with one another.

  4. Michael says:

    Thanks, folks.
    Jean, we are called to agents of reconciliation…another calling we have forgotten about.
    I wonder how seriously we take the warnings of the Lord…

  5. Paige says:

    Wow. Amen. Preach it bro. Amen.

  6. Em ... again says:

    reconciliation IS certainly one thing – but without a belief in and a fear of God (which, even if given lip-service, is demonstrably absent in this nation), could we not end up with something far less democratic and inclusive than the republic as designed 200+ years ago?

  7. Kevin H says:

    Hey, does this mean I can get political in my next article? 😉

    Oh, and good job with this one.

  8. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    First error I see is that the article seems to make a case that the Church is responsible for our country. This is just not true – the Church is responsible for the Church.

    “It’s time to pull back from this debacle and be what we are called to be… a remnant.”

    I have done this – I have made my declaration that I will not be a party to this hoax called an election – AND I have gone as far as to say for a Christian to participate by offering their vote in the presidential voting is sin.The Church must stand in protest and withdraw from participation. Have you done so? Has anyone made this declaration?

  9. Michael says:

    The only way the country will come to a belief in God and fear of Him…is if the church obeys Christ and uses His ways to bring about such things.

    Our preferred ways aren’t working…

  10. Kevin H says:

    Em,

    At the very least, our founding fathers didn’t think our Republic would last without virtue being engrained into it.

  11. Michael says:

    Thanks, Kevin…you can write, but don’t get crazy on me. 🙂

    MLD,

    The church is Gods means to bring His Word and ways to the world…we do have a responsibility here.

    I will stand with you and say that we should withdraw from this in protest…but we should also take up the tools we have been given as we do.

    A protest is not enough…we must make a positive statement about our God and our faith.

  12. Jean says:

    Michael,

    Here is the serious irony of the 21st Century America. Based on polls, I believe the data shows that out of all the western industrialized countries (sometimes referred to as “first world”), the US probably ranks #1 in the percentage of self-identifying Christians. Yet, in the metrics of poverty, violent crime and income inequality, I bet we are near the bottom. In other words, the Christianity that people self-identify as is not translating into anything positive for our country compared with more secular western countries. If what I’ve portrayed is true, then the American church is not salt nor light. In fact, it would appear to be mostly a fraud.

  13. Em ... again says:

    as usual i’m duplistic … sigh …
    from where i sit, it is our churches who’s conduct doesn’t demonstrate a fear of a holy God and, as i read the Book, without that we have no wisdom…

    FWIW – i’ve grown to love my daughter’s 2 horses (imagine at my age!), but i’ve learned a lesson as i step up and care for them when she is pulling 12 – 14 hour shifts… they must fear me or they’ll run over me… fear as in respect, not terror… i love those animals, but i can’t bless them with competent care without their respect and obedience… is that a good animal analogy?

  14. Dan from Georgia says:

    “Our preferred ways aren’t working”.

    Good statement. Want to comment on what you said, Michael, about disagreement. It is sad that people just CAN’T simply disagree, but must demonize their opponent. Check CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, Drudgereport, et al. ALL practice demonization. Heck. I do it too. I am not so loathing of the candidates as I am of their supporters. And I can certainly tell you that if I was on Facebook and twitter, I would be doing the demonizing to. Hence, I have done it here. Civility is pretty much gone, and outright contempt and hatred has taken it’s place. People have refused family relationships because of voting practices.

    The church needs to clean ITSELF up, not society.

  15. ( |o )====::: says:

    Good one, Michael.
    Hope you’re fairing through the challenging Pacific Northwest stormy weather.

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “The church is Gods means to bring His Word and ways to the world…”

    We are to bring the word, which we have – There is more WORD out in this country and the world today than there has ever been in the past. Are you saying if we double our efforts that the nation will be more Christian?

    The world knows there is a God and rejects him – outright – no matter how much they hear the word — (see Romans) – what we see today is the result of sin, flesh and the devil and is not – let me repeat – IS NOT because the Church is doing it wrong … unless you are a post millennialist who thinks that our actions are what ushers in the millennium. 😉

  17. Michael says:

    Jean,

    I think all of that can be laid at the feet of confusing the kingdom of America with the kingdom of God.
    As I read Scripture we are called to be a nation within a nation…

  18. Michael says:

    Em,

    I would have written it up the same way if I had horses instead of cats… 🙂

  19. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean – at #13 – wouldn’t you expect Satan to attack more in a self identifying Christian nation than in a Christ denying country?

    The Christian Church is under Satanic attack (not to be confused with Satanic control) – We are attacked and we fail – but the Christ denying countries perhaps get Satanic help in providing for the poor and all the things you mention to keep them from turning to God.

    Listen to the new atheists – this is the very thing they say – Alex says the same thing – that the non Christians are better than the Christians – and I just stated why.

  20. Michael says:

    Dan,

    I hear you.
    It has been an effort of will and sanctification for me to stay out of the stone throwing.
    I enjoy it immensely in the flesh.
    The only reason I haven’t participated is my deep conviction that something more important is at stake here…

  21. Michael says:

    G,

    We got wet, but nothing dramatic…so far…
    Thank you, my friend…

  22. Duane Arnold says:

    Kingdoms come and go, nations rise and fall… Michael is “right on” here, it’s about the Church. If we have lost or abandoned our first love, we can turn around, i.e. repent, and find when and where it was lost or abandoned. It may mean embracing a simpler or “less sophisticated” faith in which loving God and our brothers and sisters are the primary virtues along with reaching out to the lost, the poor and the marginalized.

  23. passin throgh says:

    #13 “The Christianity that people self-identify as is not translating into anything positive for our country compared with more secular western countries. If what I’ve portrayed is true, then the American church is not salt nor light. In fact, it would appear to be mostly a fraud.”

    That will never change until Xns stop refusing to stick their heads in the sand. LIke the sentiment of #9. As long as we keep saying, “The Church is the Church,” and we’re not responsible for getting our hands dirty with issues like poverty and income inequality, nothing will change. The Church will continue looking pretty much like a holy club.

  24. Michael says:

    MLD,

    We’re called to be the light of the world, salt and light, etc.
    When our walk is inconsistent with our word, our light dims and our salt loses it’s savor.

  25. Michael says:

    Duane @ 23…yes and amen.
    It’s really that simple…

  26. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane – you are correct to the extent that the Church must repent, change whatever you want to call it – but only for the sake of the Church and NOT because we are trying to turn OUR country around and have more desirable elections. Which is what I take away from the original article.

  27. Jean says:

    I don’t think repentance will be possible until the shepherds are willing to repent. But, until they admit their fallibility, repentance appears unlikely. Can you imagine your top 10 favorite celebrity pastors coming out this Sunday and saying, “I’ve really screwed up these past years selling out Christ for power and prestige. Will you forgive me Father and my congregation?”

  28. Em ... again says:

    #20 – amen … sometimes simplistic observations hold the deepest truth – from where i sit, of course 🙂

    IMHO – comments here that focus on there being 2 kingdoms on the move highlight a very serious truth to hold onto … sometimes we’re ambassadors, sometimes we’re salt and light, sometimes we’re soldiers … hasn’t God provided His Church with all the tools necessary to function in this foreign land? … focus on the correct Kingdom?

  29. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I said nothing about having more desirable elections.

    The early church would have thought us mad for such.

    What I am saying is that the church has a separate identity and calling than the state and it is that calling we need to be concerned about.

    Do I believe that if we did so we would have a positive influence on society?
    Absolutely.

    My bigger concern, however is the removal of the lampstand because of efforts to rule the nation…

  30. Jean says:

    MLD, What an awesome argument. Did you come up with that? So, while we’re killing each other, providing non-competitive education to our children, poverty and decay all over, drug addiction and overdose epidemics, lack of affordable health care, your answer is: “It’s all because we have a lot of Christians in our country; so the devil has made America its target, while the rest of the world can prosper to their eternal detriment? Dude, you get the hooey award for this week. 🙂

  31. Michael says:

    Em,

    Yes…focus on the correct kingdom…it’s in as poor a condition as the other one…

  32. Em ... again says:

    “the removal of the lampstand” … Rev 2:4,5 hmmm … proving that those 7 churches exemplify the dangers (& blessings) that have followed the churches down thru time
    this one should scare us today – makes me think of Peter… and also of a poem, “how do i love thee?” serious subject, love

  33. Michael says:

    The greatest accomplishment of Satan has been to convince the church that the weapons of our warfare are indeed carnal and we must embrace the gospel of glory rather than the Gospel of the Cross…

  34. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean – you are the one who made the correlation of bad behavior in America and the therefore the church is doing it wrong.

    We have no promise in scripture that ‘if the church does it right, life for the country would be better.”

    Those of you who think so, live in a land of fruits and nuts more so than I do in California. The Church can be doing it 100% right (and I am not even saying it is close) and the country can still be in the toilet because of the wicked one. As I pointed out – only post millennialist (and there are hardly any left after the events of the 20th century) believe that the purpose of the church is to usher in the kingdom. No, Jesus comes to save us from all of this crap.

  35. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – at #34 – then you hang around the wrong Church.

  36. Em ... again says:

    “the gospel of glory rather than the Gospel of the Cross…” well, there is a glory also, is there not?

    but this morning i find your words are very sobering in light of
    Luk 4:6
    “And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.” KJV

  37. ( |o )====::: says:

    These are brave followers of Jesus

    Liberty United Against Trump

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScdLe5fbVw0d12MtiYcJCf-hLDjpr7AdiYTIkMBttqdLuTQbg/viewform

  38. Duane Arnold says:

    As we’ve said before, it is the desire for power, or the desire to influence power, that seems to be at the root of the issue. I think it is this desire that is antithetical to the Gospel. I’m reminded that, “God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”

  39. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think what people fail to recognize or just plain do not what to recognize is that out of 6 billion people on the earth – it is ONLY the Church that is fighting for the preservation of God’s word and speaking out against Satan and his work — and we do it in the name of Christ on his cross.

    For some reason it becomes easier just to state and point at the obvious, the church fails. But the Church is the only one that admits it’s failure and still tries to carry on.

  40. Jean says:

    MLD,
    If America is a democratic republic and 65+% (?) of voters self identify as Christian, then the principles of Christianity should be reflected in our justice, tax, health care, environmental, immigration, etc., laws and foreign policy (to the extent compatible with the constitution). Our government is by and for the people. It is of the people.

    If our laws and policies are screwed up, it follows that the electorate as a majority is also screwed up. That means our values as a majority are screwed up. So, what I’m saying is that our Christianity (in the majority) has been corrupted.

  41. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean – perhaps that is why God never set up government as a democratic republic.

    You plan though seems to eliminate the fact that Christians too are sinners and continue to sin – your solution is to tell the Christians to stop being sinners, to stop sinning and life will be better — oh wait, that is the classic definition to the theology of glory. 😉

    I don’t know where people come up with 65% self identfy – it is not our self identification that makes us a Christian (except perhaps to the decision theology guys.). Most who say they are Christian are so culturally –
    “well, I’m not Jewish and I am not a Muslim, so I must be a Christian.” — you know that tares among the wheat thing?

  42. Jean says:

    MLD, I’ve moved to a mobile device, so I will have to be more brief and rely on your dot connecting capabilities:

    In response to your #42:

    1) Why is it that in the matters I raised above, Christians are so much better at sinning than the pagans in the secular wealthy countries?

    2) Anyone who hasn’t been asleep or stoned for the past 50 years has noticed a steady decline in the morality and ethics of the American population. Apparently, even cultural Christianity provided a common set of values that a majority shared. I’m speaking here of temporal effects.

  43. Sharon Dooley says:

    Maybe it’s already been said, but I have wondered if this is the time where real persecution sets in in America ( say the election and the Supreme Court goes the way I hope it doesnt go), and that might be good for Christianity. A lot of churches act like we are not even on the same team. I don’t look forward to it, but I trust God no matter what.

  44. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Are we really in moral decline?
    The 20th century saw us in 2 world wars and many others on a smaller level. We treated blacks terrible in the 50s and 60s. We assassinated Martin, Jack and /Bobby and countless world leaders.
    How about the way we treated Indians (oops, Native Americans) and what about the Roaring 20s – how was our morality back then – and, and, what about those bad guys that Elliot Ness wa chasing around. If our morality was so good way back then, why did we need to create the FBI – and even their leader was a moral deficit.

    Back to your #1 – I think you have no evidence. You are probably looking a crime statistics not sin statistics. Those moral pagans sit around watching 2 !/2 men also. 😉

  45. Josh the Baptist says:

    Amen.

  46. Michael says:

    Sharon,

    I would contend that the churches are now more divided by political position than Christian doctrine.

  47. Sharon Dooley says:

    So first by doctrine, pile on the politics….we need something to happen then.

  48. Josh the Baptist says:

    You know, the more I think about it, I’m just not afraid of the future. Honestly, who knows what will happen? And whatever happens, God has it under control.

    Seriously, pray for those in power, be salt and light…and? We may end up with a great opportunity to share our faith with the world.

    Don’t worry about cultural changes. It scares us because we are comfortable enough where we are, and we don’t want a change. The people pushing for change aren’t as comfortable and they want something different. I don’t hold that against them.

  49. Michael says:

    Sharon,

    As I watch what you post, I think you’re already doing it.
    You and I don’t agree politically, but I commend and admire that you have put feet to your faith and you are out doing that which your convictions call you to do.

    You are seeking to change hearts…and that is what this is all about.

  50. Michael says:

    Josh,

    I think my issue is that we’ve traded reliance on the power of God to reliance on the powers of politics.
    When we can no longer do that, we may be greatly blessed and surprised by what He can do…

  51. Josh the Baptist says:

    @ 51 – Right. But the reason we started relying on politics is fear. We were afraid of the things we saw going on around us, so we sold our souls.

  52. Sharon Dooley says:

    Thank you Michael. i appreciate that very much!

  53. Michael says:

    But that’s how much we hate each other. As the Pew Foundation has amply documented, Americans are polarized in the worst possible way — two tribes not so much united by love for their own as hatred for the other. We don’t lack fury, but we do lack perspective.

    Reasonable has become the new radical, the idea that we shouldn’t be furious is somehow seen as “out of touch” in a nation that remains the most powerful and prosperous on Earth. America is strong enough to withstand bad policy, but no nation can long endure public panic. The stakes in 2016 are not high enough to burn anything down, nor to sacrifice any element of your character or moral convictions. Take a deep breath, America. We should be better than this.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441089/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-american-republic-faces-bigger-threats

  54. So let’s take a poll. Who here goes to a politically divisive church? And if you do, why? I would that that at least 95% of American churches do not proclaim government issues at all and a similar number are not out seeking power as Duane suggested above.

    I suggest it is a few vocal characters. I think most Christians are noted with politics.

    May I also suggest that those churches that are all wrapped up in politics are those that do not take the sacraments as real and efficacious communicated by God. And there is a real reason.

  55. dusty says:

    Well done big brother, well done!

  56. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I must read too much history. The National Review article is there for one purpose – to stoke panic. I doubt it would have even produced such shameful crap if William F Buckley were still alive and at the helm.

    All elections go through the same hatred and misinformation. Pick up a book about say the 1880s and the near revolutions in this country – in some cases the western states were ready to leave the union over things like, and especially silver coinage – tariffs and the railroads. The turn of the century found the country in turmoil and again near revolution (I only used that term as it is quite loosely used here frequently) over labor union, with street riots in every industrialized city – trust busting – you name it – everyone was drawing their own line in the sand.

    These were no small issues – the labor crowds make Black Lives Matters look like a church picnic. From the very time we were 13 colonies we have been a nation divided — and if we were to be honest, every war we got involved in was for the purpose of trying to get our sides united — negotiations and trying to be nice nice never work — but war, a common enemy does — for the short term.

    Today is the same as always – but people have a louder soap boxx — the internet

  57. Michael says:

    MLD,

    The National Review piece was actually pretty thoughtful and reflective of what I see online and hear locally.
    You are correct that we have always had a measure of division.
    What you’re missing is that social media has not only amplified the voices, it’s provided people a way to organize and facilitate action in a much greater fashion.

    We are in far worse shape than you think we are…

  58. Potatoehead says:

    Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.

    If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders.

    But now my kingdom is from another place.”

    Pilate therefore said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king.

    ***

    We have only one King.

    The matter is settled.

    For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.

    No man can serve two masters:

    for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and ( make your own application.)

  59. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael,
    1.) “What you’re missing is that social media has not only amplified the voices, it’s provided people a way to organize and facilitate action in a much greater fashion.”

    No, I even said – “Today is the same as always – but people have a louder soap boxx — the internet”

    2.) “You are correct that we have always had a measure of division.”

    a measure is too mild – as I stated, several times we have been on the edge of revolt or sections of the nation leaving the union.

    3.) “it’s provided people a way to organize and facilitate action in a much greater fashion.”

    No, back in the old days they stayed in their own local areas and beat each other over the head with axe handles. Today, most of the people stay in the comfort of their own homes and the only thing they beat is their keyboards — you and me included.

    Even in our day, you seem to discount the turbulence of the past – the race riots of the 60s the 3 assassinations a war that took down 2 presidents (Johnson and Nixon) – perhaps you were too young, but what we see today is absolutely nothing like just 50 yrs ago.

    The National Review piece at best is panic publishing.

  60. Michael says:

    MLD,

    The National Review piece was a plea for sanity…I don’t know where you’re getting the panic view.

    I remember the 60’s vividly…and always wondered why where I lived was so peaceful in comparison to what I saw on TV.

    I saw people who used to post here advising the purchase of guns and ammo for the coming Civil War last night…I don’t think they’re kidding…

  61. Jean says:

    Michael and MLD,

    I think you both are failing to interpret the metanarrative going on in our country.

    After WW2 and before international trade really took off, America enjoyed a lot of prosperity. The middle class grew and flourished, while the executives and moneyed class did well, but no where near the discrepancies we see today.

    Hard work was assumed. Parents didn’t shield (or make excuses for) their kids from the realities of life, and the government was not seen as the answer for everything. Hedonism was less prevalent than it is today.

    Today, the family is on life support, and everyone wants the government to fill in for parents. Then, when the government can’t get the job done, everyone blames the government. Some people want to destroy the government and try to take the country back to a frontier society. It’s called deconstruction. Meanwhile the moneyed class has bought the government and are doing better than every, as the country is going downhill fast.

    In all this, the church has got a frog caught in its throat.

  62. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “I remember the 60’s vividly…and always wondered why where I lived was so peaceful in comparison to what I saw on TV.”

    You weren’t on a college campus and you had no black people … and if I remember correctly, you guys had plenty of weed.

    Look, my tag line is this — it has been much worse than this at several junctures of US history – and we survived.

    The National Review piece was alarmist and overstated every problem and division so they could call for peace.

    Take a snapshot of their posts calling for guns and revolution and post them here – I am curious as I have not seen a one.

  63. Michael says:

    Jean,

    I think there’s more than one meta narrative in this.

    There is a large group of people who believe that what is really at stake is Western civilization…that all the immigration and acceptance of diverse races and religions has weakened us to the place where what we have known is soon to be taken away.

    All of those things that people thought and were forbidden to say are being said all over social media now…and those people don’t want to go back into hiding…

  64. Michael says:

    MLD,

    The last thing I will ever do is post that stuff here and start a another conflict.
    I will send them privately, if you wish.

  65. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “After WW2 and before international trade really took off, America enjoyed a lot of prosperity. The middle class grew and flourished, while the executives and moneyed class did well, but no where near the discrepancies we see today.”

    In white America

  66. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    While I have it opened – I may read this again. I read it 15 years ago.
    Grover Cleveland was a very good President – I think he won the popular vote 3 times but was President only 2 of those time. Anyway, well skilled and popular and much of the country was torn apart on his watch.

    https://www.amazon.com/Grover-Cleveland-Character-Alyn-Brodsky/dp/0312268831/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1476488381&sr=8-10&keywords=Grover+Cleveland

  67. Jean says:

    Michael,

    What I would say is that the “blame” attributed to immigration and diversity of races and religions is a “scapegoat” for the fact that the middle class is shrinking. Now, I understand that there was always a KKK, but I think that a lot of other white males (in particular) are susceptible to the bullspit that Trump spews which entertains racism and xenophobia as a result of roots in the economic decline of the middle class.

  68. Michael says:

    Jean @ 69… yes.

  69. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    You guys are funny – you are clones of what you rail against. You use fear and hatred to counter attack fear and hatred. “Look they are buying guns” – “look at the hate groups they are supporting” – “hey, look they can’t stand the middle class shrinking.

    You guys are no different than Steve Wright – just from a different perspective. I come from the directin that we are equally screwed.

    One last point when it comes to revolution and overthrow – during the primaries it was only the Hillaryand Bernie people that were not only proposing violence and civil disorder but were actually carrying it out. The Trump supporters not once.

  70. Michael says:

    MLD,

    All I’m saying is that we need to recognize all these different groups…and not underestimate the rage that’s out there.

  71. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    One other thing that makes today’s ruckus look like a garden party – in the 60’s unrest groups like the Black Panthers, the Weathermen, SDS, SCCK – didn’t just type blogs and Teets to go store guns – they actually got the guns, the bombs and the rest – blew up building, killed cops and raised havoc.

    You’re guys – do nothing. “who was it who cried out the sky is falling”??

  72. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    So in your opinion Steve Wright and Derek Thornton are doing the same good work as you just from a different perspective? They are just pointing out the rage?

  73. Jean says:

    MLD #74,

    Now you’ve left Kansas and are in that place with the little people and yellow brick road.

    You’ve been telling us how you haven’t followed the politics and don’t have cable, so that account for your incorrect information. But how can you make any representation whatsoever, if you haven’t paid attention.

    At the Trump rallies, the violence has been perpetrated by his supporter at his instigation against especially African American demonstrators inside the venues. Outside the venues, there has been violence against his supporters by minorities (who he’s demonized), possibly Bernie supporters, but to my knowledge not Hillary supporters and never instigated or approved of by either Bernie or Hillary. There is no comparison.

  74. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I’m not trying to judge anything.
    I’m trying to recognize and understand what is already going on.

  75. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I see the internet clips.

    I was in Arizona when the anti Trump people blocked the freeways.
    I watch the clips of the Trump rally in Costa Mesa before it even started and the Mexicans beating on the white people. You can go search them out too.

    I still don’t follow the politics – but you know what? These activities are not politics – they are violence.

    You must have meant my #72.

  76. Jean says:

    MLD,
    It’s inappropriate to bring up the names of blog members who are not participating in this thread. I would prefer if Michael deleted the comments referring to them.

    You are perfectly capable of making your arguments without reference to people who are not participating in this discussion.

  77. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – I am telling you this is politic as normal – EXCEPT we have 2 completely unqualified candidates running.

  78. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean – why are you the arbiter?
    I am saying nice positive things about them

  79. John 20:29 says:

    i’m reading the back and forth here regarding it’s different now and no, it’s the same as it’s always been and i have to say that something is different…

    perhaps it is the global nature of the conflicted situation, the fact that today you can’t run, and you can’t hide… not for very long anyway…

    FWIW – anyone who thinks that Trump is stirring up unrest in an otherwise peaceful political season hasn’t listened to Hillary – she is the master of manipulation – not saying one is good and the other one is bad

    God keep all close who come here

  80. JonnyB says:

    Speaking about white America, this guy is pointing out something that has happened in southern California.

    Back in the 40’s and 50’s, in Orange County, everyone had to take the train into Santa Ana if they wanted to shop for clothing, groceries etc.

    Then in the 60’s there was white flight as a foreign speaking people relocated to Santa Ana.

    Anyone driving through Santa Ana in the late sixties saw a lot of boarded up businesses and abandoned buildings.

    Today there is a thriving community in Santa Ana.

    One that is no longer white America at all.

    This guy points it out as though it just might not be a good thing for America.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/10/liberals_celebrate_ethnic_cleansing_of_whites_in_santa_ana_california.html

    I, myself live in a part of my town where the bulk of my neighbors are not originally Americans.

    We all get along in our diversity with very little problems.

    There is only one problem, section 8 violators.

    They rent a home on government vouchers and then violate the terms of the government freebie by subleasing it to others.

    One home had 13 cars associated with it.

    They parked some of them on the front lawn which turned into a dirt lot.

    Felons are not allowed to live together once they get out of prison.

    Sub renting in section 8 homes is their ideal solution to live together.

    Their name appears no where on rental agreements.

    They tend to drive noisy boom cars that project bass notes deeply into everyone’s homes in a 300 foot radius of them.

    They all have car alarms that they use at all hours of the night to irritate the neighbors.

    They rev their engines at all hours of the night deliberately, then loudly slam their car doors when they come or go.

    All of their behavior seems designed to drive out neighbors who are not like themselves.

    They light off flying M80’s at 2:00 AM when they come home from the bars, causing loud booms over our homes and waking the entire neighborhood.

    Already two of my neighbors sold their homes at a loss just to get away from the constant abuse, they were white families with children.

    Finally I had to hire an attorney to go after the registered owner of the property where the abusers of the neighborhood lived.

    Here in CA a property owner is liable for the actions of his tenants.

    Under threat of being sued by me, the registered property owner has issued a notice to his tenant to shape up.

    The tenant on the lease agreementevicted some of the gang guys but still had sub leasers.

    Upon inspection of the property by the property manager, it was discovered that the property was trashed to the tune of over ten thousand dollars of damage.

    So the owner has issued a notice to vacate his property.

    Currently the tenant has been squatting with out paying rent.

    The owner is losing around $3500.00 a month in rental income from his property.

    In all my years I have never had such inconsiderate neighbors with their loud noise from parties and gang boom cars along with deliberate car door slamming and engine revving.

    One of my other older retired neighbors down the street, who speaks the language of the noisy neighbors told me that what they have been doing is how they take over neighborhoods in southern CA.

    Reading the linked article by the man about Santa Ana, and my own experiences in my neighborhood I can see how there would be some angry white people.

    I myself am not angry.

    We are all capable of getting along if we abide by common decency and respect of one another.

    I like my neighborhood and my other neighbors, but a few are indeed bad apples…

  81. Jim says:

    It is not blasphemy to vote against war, and one of the horrible choices we’ve been given has a clear record as a hawk, and speaks the language of the MIC, because she is one of them.

  82. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jim – what is MIC?

  83. dusty says:

    Went to a civil war reenactment today and “General Lee” was talking about the same thing you are saying , Michael! It was as if i weee reading your post all over again. It was amazing.

    I am so glad you decided to write this opinion as you put it. It really speaks to my spirit.

    God bless you big brother.

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