TGIF

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87 Responses

  1. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    I cannot tell you adequately how much I value this post and the one yesterday, “Walls”. While agreeing with almost all of what you say, I’ve decided on another course for this weekend. It is my intent to march with the protestors in my area and, likely, engage in non-violent civil disobedience. While I respect the process, the intolerance, injustice and bullying – now being witnessed almost every day – must, in my opinion, be confronted. I love this country, I respect the office, but I cannot stand silently on the sidelines. While I know you will likely not approve, I ask for your prayers…

  2. dusty says:

    Duana praying for you

  3. dusty says:

    Duane sorry about that

  4. Michael says:

    Duane,
    I suspect that there is a reasonable possibility that I will end up in jail in the next four years from activism on behalf of undocumented immigrants.
    I’m ready to do that.
    What I can’t do is protest a fair and legal election.
    As any oppression raises up we must confront it specifically and clearly…however we can do so in Christian conscience.
    My fear is that these current protests say that those who voted for Trump all did so with malicious intent toward others.
    I do not believe that is the case.
    We need to stop and listen to those folks and let them tell us why before we move on to protest the choice they made.
    You always have my prayers…you may be on the side of the angels already.

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    Thank you Michael… yes, it’s not about the election, it’s about the hatred and intolerance it has unleashed… I think right now I’d rather stand with the immigrant, the disabled, with women who are being disrespected and targeted, with the marginalized… Your prayers are valued more than you know.

  6. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane,
    I don’t mind people “marching” – did plenty of it as an anti war protestor in college 45 years ago – but I need this explained;
    “it’s about the hatred and intolerance it has unleashed…”

    Just where are you seeing this since the election? Here is the violence I am seeing – the left destroying property, lighting their cities on fire and in LA when they block the freeways and trap people in, this should be equal to kidnapping. How about CEOs calling for their employees who vote opposite him to resign? or the biggest that has come up is the left re coding the term Nazi to now be applicable to working class white Americans. We see this when they they explain what went wrong with the election (as if anything went wrong) but it was caused by those working class white americans … they even say it with a small ‘a’ in disgust.

    I’m just wondering the hate you are seeing.

  7. Plucked Brand says:

    Duane, I hope you’re also marching against the hatred and intolerance of those calling for the assassination of our new President-Elect.

  8. John 20:29 says:

    i think, no matter where one’s heart is, that marching with the folk out there now is not a good thing for several reasons… pray for a better way to stand against evil… just my not-so-humble-opinion

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Plucked – I saw that also on my FB. The ones I saw were women calling out to any available snipers.

    This goes back to yesterday;s BabylonBee – these young college liberals have never known defeat in their lives.
    http://babylonbee.com/news/police-calm-millennial-protesters-handing-participation-trophies/

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    A little liberal hate

  11. Duane Arnold says:

    I’ve also seen and heard about situations similar to what Michael wrote about in “Walls”. Let me emphasize again, “non-violent civil disobedience”. When women are yelled at (and even grabbed) by teens using Mr. Trump’s famous phrase, when Muslim women have their hijab pulled off, when racial slurs become acceptable in “polite company”… I’ll stand with the values of the Gospel.

  12. Plucked Brand says:

    Duane, Donald Trump didn’t invent the phrase or the behavior, and I’m sure teens hear and see much worse at their schools and on their phones. Plenty of past Presidents have been womanizers and had very foul mouths in private as well. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but to act as if DT is somehow the origin and sole promoter of all this is ludicrous.

  13. Jean says:

    Plucked,
    Duane never said that DT is the origin, but he is the normalizer, the legitimizer. If the POTUS can say and do that stuff, publicly, then it must be okay. That’s what is happening.

  14. Michael says:

    There is no doubt that there are those who believe that this election is an endorsement of some ungodly attitudes.

    What I wrote yesterday happened…it had not ever happened before.

    I think I can safely speak for both Duane and myself that neither of us endorse wickedness on either side…but we cannot stand by and let what has already been expressed go without answer.

    I wrote about it yesterday, Duane is going to engage in more active protest.

    We both are doing what our conscience demands today.

  15. Erunner says:

    Thanks Michael, We’ve discussed this and other issues in our nation for some time. We’ve mourned the loss of innocent lives at the hands of evil.

    What I’ve noted along the way is each day the victims we never hear or read about. Civilians murdering and maiming one another in terrible ways. These people weren’t just going to disappear after the election. Men’s hearts are bent towards evil if unchecked. That includes each of us.

    What we’re seeing is not surprising. Our nation has been simmering for some time now. Some among us live to maim, destroy, and even kill. All they need is an excuse.

    So many are painting Republicans and Democrats based on the worst they’ve seen from each side.

    Some Christians I know can’t comprehend how another Christian could vote for Clinton. Some Christians I know can’t comprehend how a Christian could vote for Trump.

    I confess I worry we’re past the point of rational actions and reactions. There seem to be too many who aren’t interested.

    I’m saddened when I see a Muslim teen here in our area describe how she was attacked and taunted after the election. Some sadly think all Muslims are out to destroy us.

    I’m saddened when I’ve seen whites attacked simply for being white. Some are beginning to believe we’re the problem.

    You stated that our veterans can’t protect us from one another. I had to chew on that for a second.

    With so much we’ve been given we’re never satisfied. We never will be.

    I believe whatever mercy and grace might be extended to our nation has to begin in the church. That’s where judgment begins and it seems we’ve done much to earn it. Neither candidate never had the power to bring that which only God can accomplish. It seems we’ve forgotten that. There will always be opposition. Jesus came into this world and we put Him on a cross.

    As you look at Trey I look at my children and Grandchildren and pray they be spared what may be coming and in reality what has been here all along. Thanks for putting words to my feelings.

    I watched the laying of the wreath this morning at the tomb of the unknown soldier. It was solemn. It made me think of where we’re at now. The playing of taps moved me deeply.

  16. Michael says:

    Thank you, Erunner.

    The only thing that concerns me more than the state of the country is the state of the church.
    I am at a complete loss as to what to teach T about the church after I’m gone…

  17. Plucked Brand says:

    With all due respect Jean, this depravity was being promoted and normalized long before DT came along, and by past Presidents as well. You have only to look to Hollywood over the past 40 years. The Clinton’s received massive support and finances from those people who openly promote, defend, and produce the very things you find disgusting in DT.

  18. Jean says:

    Plucked,
    I haven’t seen your name around here, so I’ll just inform you that this isn’t the low IQ blog. So, cut the BS. You show me where in recent memory any POTUS or candidate for that office, publicly called women pigs, claimed an opponent’s father was involved in the assassination of JFK, perpetuated a birther movement against the current POTUS, mocked a disabled journalist, claimed a decorated vet was not a hero because he was captured, said he could grab women by the pussy and get away with it, said a Federal judge wasn’t qualified because his heritage was Mexican. I’m sure I’m leaving things out.

    This is what young people are hearing from public statements by Trump, which are taken as okay for anyone to say.

    Show me where another President or candidate publicly said such things.

    If you can’t then please recede to your hole.

  19. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    Thank you for your on going love and understanding….

  20. Plucked Brand says:

    Wow Jean, thanks for the love! Funny how you have no problem savaging me with your vitriol, name calling, and cursing, but keep telling yourself Trump is the problem.

  21. Potatoehead says:

    I understand the public consensus orthodoxy.

    But will it actually change what our voting process has decided?

    Your a good man Duane, God’s blessings to ya in your participation of our American freedom to voice our opinions.

  22. John 20:29 says:

    what was said @ 17 is true and to say that men don’t behave grossly, callously out there in the world makes me wonder where some of you have lived your lives…
    still, i have to ask myself why a candidate for President of the United States would open his campaign as Trump did… i see two possible explanations: one is that he didn’t think he’d get the nomination – i heard bandied about that he was a Clinton plant only intended to disrupt the Republican nominating process… but, perhaps it backfired and the unmoral majority, responded to his construction site blather while the moral, not the majority, said, “at least he’s honest” and they both said, “hey, he’s one of us; not politically correct.” – what started out as an exercise to disrupt the process took over the process
    dunno… could be… dunno, tho, do i? 🙂

    at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy wonk (i may be one) the street marches that we’re calling exercise of free speech come at a time when there seems to be a group out there (or more than one) that use the marchers in dangerous ways for purposes known only to themselves… if one feels that they must join the marches i pray that there’ll be openings to dialog on the streets among the marchers that is constructive

  23. dusty says:

    Michael said,” My real hope is in my King and in a kingdom that cannot be shaken…may I represent Him well in my time of exile here.”.

    Amen and amen!

  24. dusty says:

    I hate that everyone is so devided….it’s so sad.

  25. Potatoehead says:

    Love it Dusty.

    Michael nailed it.

  26. Potatoehead says:

    Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
    Matthew 5:4

    Dusty be comforted.

  27. dusty says:

    Thanks potatohead

  28. dusty says:

    Thanks potatohead 🙂

  29. Duane Arnold says:

    I think it has gone beyond Trump vs. Clinton. It is about basic human decency. There are values, in my mind, which are embedded in the Gospel. I do not ask for all to agree with my stance. I do hope that I might have your prayers and love as brothers and sisters. To those who disagree with what I am doing…. you have me love and prayers. There are issues in which good hearted people may disagree. It is not ‘right and wrong’, it is about obeying the dictates of conscience. By the way, my brother and band-mate, Michael will be joining me…

  30. dusty says:

    Lord pour down Your mercy on us. In Your anger remember Your mercy!

  31. Erunner says:

    There’s about two months before Trump is sworn in. God only knows what will happen between now and then. The election took place three days ago!

    There will be articles here where folks can hash things out.

    If after reading Michael’s words we can’t lay differences aside, remember our veterans, and focus on God then we’ve missed his point entirely and only demonstrate that believers aren’t capable of interacting in uplifting ways.

    Some articles should be a safe place to escape the vitriol that is so prevalent during these difficult times.

    I echo Dusty’s # 24.

  32. Dan from Georgia says:

    Amen to comments #24 and #31!

  33. Anne says:

    Although I live in a supposed progressive city, the election has brought out the rascists and bigots in our schools and neighborhoods. My good friends & neighbors of color are truly afraid. Incidents like Michael described in the middle school are happening in larger scale in our schools – especially high schools. Women, gays, brown and black friends are being slurred and dinegrated on the street. I see it in lines at the grocery store, on public transportation. Last night on the bus a white man got on and when the black driver said “thank you” as the passenger walked by flashing his bus pass, he was told “yes, you better say thank you now”. I keep my phone at the ready to call 911 & film. I’m with Duane. I’m signed up to to do whatever it takes to stand with those I love in the face of hate. MLD, my daughters live in OC and it’s hard for them to picture too. A year ago we were talking about T, rasicm etc and my youngest confessed she had no idea overt rasicm was still a thing!!! Sigh. My black friends have taught me it never quit – just folks feel more empowered to be their true selves.

  34. Michael says:

    Duane…please check in when you’re safely home…give MGB my highest regards as well…

  35. Dan from Georgia says:

    My late father and several of his brothers served in the U.S. Marine Corps. I am proud of them. Two of them were in the Korean War. One died in a battle in the Chosin Reservoir, and his remains were positively identified back in the early 2000s. You can read about him here:

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-05-22-korean-war_x.htm

  36. Michael says:

    Erunner,

    In time we’ll be able…for now this has been a mostly irenic discussion.

  37. How silly that you folks think that racism began the day Trump announced as a candidate.
    Anne, never assume what I know about racism etc just because I live in the OC. Your statement is nothing but passive aggressive puke.
    All of the violence in word and deed the past 3 days has come from the left. If I wanted to interrupt my viewing of Longmire I am sure I could find it on every local news channel.
    But everyone keep marching until Trump sees the light and resigns.

  38. London says:

    How extremely rude.

  39. Michael says:

    Racism is ancient.

    What has changed is that some people feel (rightly or wrongly) that the election of Trump now means that they can express it freely.
    They believe they have been validated.

    What has happened in our schools is an expression of contempt that has at the very least been repressed and believed to be shameful in the past.

    It’s not right now.

    Something has been changed and some awful things are believed to have been affirmed by this election.

    Most of the protests have been peaceful…those doing violence have been anarchists looking for any opportunity to raise hell.

    It’s going to take patient listening and a real desire to stop dividing to overcome where we are.

    I’m closing this thread.

  40. David H says:

    I’m weary.

    Yesterday at school (a continuation high school in San Bernardino) was emotionally exhausting. 80 % of the school is Latino. The sullen fear of the future was palpable.

    One Latino boy, one of the toughest I have as a student, actually had fear in his eyes. He asked me, “What’s going to happen to me and my family?” This is a kid that lives in one of the most violent neighborhoods in the city, and I saw genuine fear from him. He’s terrified. “They might arrest me and take me away to Mexico for being on the street. I’ve never been to Mexico. Does anyone care about me?” My reply, “I do.” He smiled, and walked away to class.

    I may end up in the same cell with Michael.

    I really can’t fathom the idea of destroying people’s lives. Not that I don’t know the reality of it. Evil is alive and well.

  41. passin throgh says:

    #37

    Insensitive clod.

  42. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am hurt by everyone’s insensitivity towards me – absolutely crushed 😉

    Check yourselves out. Through all of this for months I have not once made a pro Trump comment – I have not once endorsed a single policy position of his. I used to sa, even though I disagreed with her 100% I would vote for Clinton just to get the first woman President thing out of the way in my lifetime (when I began to disagree with Clinton 200% I changed that position)
    I was the first one on this site to say that it was immoral for a Christian to vote for either of these candidates.

    My only differences or concerns came as Michael began to challenge what he perceived to be the reactions of the Right to a Trump defeat – the doom the gloom the violence of the Right – their irrational perceived behavior – their storing up of guns – their conspiracy conversations on social media – oh the national explosition that was going to happen if Trump were not elected. There was not one bit of concern that people who thought differently than Michael or many of you needed a time and a way to process the defeat of their candidate (and I will admit that I am not sensitive to care either – just move on.

    Now, every one of my comments either here or on FB since the election are about that reaction coming from the Left – those who would have denied the reaction from the Right. I have not gloated about a Trump victory – nothing for me to gloat about, he was not my guy – but I do mock the Left and their continual lies – even perpetrated here.

    You can go back, find my posts here or on FB (but I know most would not be fair enough to do so) and see the reactions from my Northern CA Jewish family members peppering me with how Donald Trump is preparing to put Jews into the internment camps and telling me all the ways the Feds will find out me and my family are really Jews.

    Now let me ask this – had Clinton won and people on the right were distraught, shooting their guns off as Michael suggested – marching through the streets, etc – would you all be offering them comfort dogs to soothe their grief – or would you be blasting them and their reactions?

    All I can say it is time to grow up and move on – listen to your people – Clinton and Obama aren’t raging about this.

  43. For anyone who has friends disturbed by what they think Donald Trump says vs what he actually said – these 11 min should help clear it up. It seems when Trump tries to clear up his positions the media and his opposition move right along with their planned agenda of lies..

    I found this interesting in what we still hear today about Trump not denouncing David Duke and the KKK – someone the other day threw this up at me.

  44. Michael says:

    MLD,

    People here have not been protesting the loss of the election,but the expressions of contempt toward various groups by people who rightly or wrongly feel suddenly empowered to do so.

    It’s that simple, it’s frankly part of the Christian calling, and will continue to be part of mine.

  45. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – that is my point – now the people on the Left feel empowered to march for hate and label anyone on the Right, especially the Working Class White American as racist.

    You have every right to march for those causes – I find it silly myself, but you must listen to these ‘marchers’ when they get interviewed … they want to label me.

  46. Xenia says:

    As I wrote on another thread, I am glad to see all the peaceful protests because they are a signal to the new government that if an attempt is made to enact some of the more extreme plans, there will be resistance.

  47. Michael says:

    I think I’ve made it clear over and over again that I’m not labeling anyone but those who choose to act and speak in such a way as to harm the most vulnerable among us.
    I think my article was crystal clear.

  48. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    I wish they had waited for specific issues…but agree with the idea you are presenting.

  49. JoelG says:

    David H

    Keep on keepin on brother. You did good.

  50. Xenia says:

    This election and the words of those on the far right have had the effect of moving me more to the left.

  51. Erunner says:

    I’m not sure what a protest is anymore. Here where I live thousands are walking the streets and disrupting traffic. They have and last night were trying to run onto the freeways which is something I can’t justify. Property has been damaged and a man in Portland was shot last night. They’re expecting 10,000 today in Los Angeles.

    I’m all for the right to protest. I thought that meant something a lot different than what I’m seeing which isn’t encouraging.

  52. Duane Arnold says:

    MLD

    I was marching last night. It was peaceful. I can assure you, I did not march for hate. I might also point out, that no one has labeled you… but as a protester you have labeled me. In actuality, I also had the chance to explain to others in the march why I was there – that Christ stood with the marginalized.

  53. Michael says:

    “Christ stood with the marginalized.”

    And if I’m going to follow Him, I must as well.

  54. Xenia says:

    You can’t elect someone like our country just elected and expect there to be no eruption of emotion.

    Good for you, Duane. Thumbs up.

  55. Michael says:

    I refuse to accept either the “left or “right” label anymore.

    It’s a device used to divide and it’s usually inaccurate.

    I am pro life and I’m pro amnesty for migrants.

    I’m for the sanctity of marriage and universal health care.

    I take each issue on it’s own merits, not on which party is promoting it.

    I’m a Christian and a citizen…and those are the only labels I will wear.

  56. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    And if Clinton had been elected, Michael has for months previewed the distress of the Right and condemned it before hand. Why no sympathy for the grieving Right?

    As they walked through the streets with their hoards of guns, or sitting in their bunkers as described, feeling that their voices have not been listened to – are you going to march with them as Christ and recognizing their marginalization?

    I posted the video at #43 when Trump denies just about everything he is being accused of today – was anyone honest enough to watch it?

  57. Jean says:

    How is watching or not watching a video a sign of honesty? Why should anyone trust what a serial liar says?

    “Though I spends me time
    In the ashes and smoke
    In this ‘ole wide world
    There’s no ‘appier bloke”

  58. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I was pointing out that some were preparing for armed civil disobedience and even civil war.

    They were calling for Clinton to be hung.

    If you cannot discern the difference between civil war and protests, that is really not my problem.

  59. Duane Arnold says:

    #55

    Michael

    Could not agree with you more! I’m always reminded that the original Anglo-Catholics with theologically conservative and social activists. People who are content with labels, and labeling others are actually saying more about their own psyche rather than about the situation at hand…

  60. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “They were calling for Clinton to be hung.”

    I have seen 3 or 4 similar calls on FB for an assassin to be found to take care of Trump.

  61. Duane Arnold says:

    Sorry – #59 should read “Anglo-Catholics were”

  62. Michael says:

    Duane,

    We can’t fix a thing if we continue to allow people to place us in neat categories for the sake of division.

    We need to stick with our real identity as Christians and go from there.

  63. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean, the continual diatribe that Trump has never denounced David Duke and the KKK is a total lie as shown in the video. Yet you watch and you will hear in the protests that Trump is aligned with the KKK because he will not denounce them.

    You would think that would bring comfort to the distraught to know these facts.

  64. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I’ve seen that too…and sent a DM to one through Twitter denouncing the very idea.

  65. Michael says:

    MLD,

    It is beyond question at this point that white supremacists and other unsavory sorts feel validated by this election.

    Whether that is a reflection of the Presidents true character or not, we still have the problem and need to stand against those ideas.

  66. Duane Arnold says:

    Leadership and modeling, especially from the President or President-elect, I believe, does matter… If we doubt this, ask any high school teacher about how the definition of “sex” changed among students as a result of Mr. Clinton’s indiscretions. This is not a partisan observation… it is simply reality…

  67. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I find it odd that the political leadership for them Dems has put this to rest. You know why – because a president is very limited in what they can get done on their own. Congress is a stop – the courts and the COURT or stops – the states are stops (even though the Left has tried to destroy the power of the states).

    Just as I said way back when, that no matter what Bernie Sanders says he will do in his first 100 days, there will be not free university education paid by the tax payers – he could be President Sanders and it would not happen. There will be no wall built and there will be no one deported who would not have also been deported by Obama’s Homeland Security.

    And even as pointed out to me the other day, we Jews will not be walking to the internment camps wearing the Yellow Stars.

  68. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    white supremacists and other unsavory sorts feel validated by just by waking up in the morning. I do not think you will ever run into one of these who does not feel they are right – at any given time in the past.

  69. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane,
    “If we doubt this, ask any high school teacher about how the definition of “sex” changed among students as a result of Mr. Clinton’s indiscretions.”

    I think you must have a misread on this. Students back in the Clinton administration were probably applauding that normal people in authority had finally caught up to what they knew to be the norm in the backseat of a 55 Pontiac on prom night.

  70. Michael says:

    MLD,

    Read slowly…
    This isn’t about Democrats and Republicans to some of us.
    It’s about protecting vulnerable people.

    I don’t give a rats ass what either parties leadership has done…I care deeply that Hispanic kids have a new mountain to climb to go to school in peace.

  71. Duane Arnold says:

    #70

    Thank you Michael… I think “nuance” maybe difficult for some…

  72. John 20:29 says:

    we need a little reason right this very minute to misquote a Xmas song….

    FWIW – all the angst over the possibility that the incoming administration will start deporting migrants evidently hasn’t kept up with what is going on right now as those folk are being deported in record numbers (i’ve seen reports of deportation proceedings underway against adults who came here as babies)

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-deported-record-number-immigrants-trump-claim-article-1.2774180

    as to the fear that we have elected a terrible man for the first time in our history – we’ve elected much worse, but they spoke softly and carried out their evil deeds in secret (apologies to Teddy R.) … that doesn’t justify the coarse, the bragging, the insulting loose talk, but what it said to many – right or wrong – was, “here’s an honest man”

    i understand that he has practicing Jews (gasp) in his family circle, BTW

    my point is that we need to calm the tender souls’ angst as best we can, to stop running in circles rending our garments in outrage and just monitor the coming proceedings… then, if need be, take appropriate action…

    i hope everyone is praying as fervently now for the success of the incoming President as they did for his election (or his defeat) … think i’ve said that before or someone did…

  73. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael & Duane – for you it may not – but for the marchers and those on my FB feed it is a very real issue how the threats and lies towards us ‘white guys’ is coming out.

  74. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, that article is great – the Dems bragging that Trump can’t out deport them when it comes to illegal immigrants. It totally backs up what I said @67 “There will be no wall built and there will be no one deported who would not have also been deported by Obama’s Homeland Security.”

    I guess there is something more acceptable when the black president does it – where it is not acceptable from the “white guy” president.

    Time to go change my oil 🙂

  75. Michael says:

    John 20:29,

    I’m well aware of the deportation numbers under Obama and have have cited them here more than once.

    A man who cheats on his wives and stiffs his employees is not an honest man.

  76. John 20:29 says:

    For my part, since my secret pleasure is people watching (not claiming discernment, tho), i am quite anxious to see just how Trump does step up to the job… how smart the man really is… how dependent his successes have been on being able to say “you’re fired.” which he won’t be able to rely on anymore…

    well, a man who cheats on his wives and stiffs his employees is not a good man, at least not a God-fearing one… sadly our churches are peppered with such men, too… i think the rationale has been, “it’s nothing personal; it’s just good business” …?… with God it’s all personal, isn’t it?

    it has been observed here that we are much closer to a mindset of anarchy in this country than most realize… a sobering and looming possibility IMV also – which is why the protest demonstrations going on now concern me – do we realize how quickly agitators could turn the crowds into mobs? a rumor of an injustice would be enough to set off many – not all, but many and that could so quickly snowball … praying

  77. Xenia says:

    I am one who champions ignoring the media experts and just listening to the words that come from the mouths of the candidates.

    I remember when Trump was asked about David Duke, he said “I disavow him.”

    The first time when he was asked about Duke, I am not sure he actually knew who he was being asked about. When he understood who Duke was, he disavowed him. (Or used a similar word.)

    So when people said he didn’t repudiate Duke’s support of him, they were lying.

    And I don’t use the “lying” word causally.

    It is worrisome the people like Duke find common cause with Trump.

  78. Michael says:

    By the way…I’ve tried many times here to raise the bar of understanding about the majority of Trump voters.

    There are some excellent books out on the topic that I have repeatedly recommended.

  79. Michael says:

    I’ll do it again…

    The End of White Christian America
    Hillbilly Elegy
    White Trash
    All three are very helpful to understand the division we face today.

  80. Michael says:

    MLD also thought Clinton would win in a landslide…I tried to inform him otherwise. 😉

    The wall is inevitable and frankly, I wish they’d go ahead and get their ridiculous symbol built.

    it will change nothing except destroying some pristine desert and block off border communities from each other, but have at it.

    Oh, and spend about 25 billion dollars…

    The bad guys and the dope will still come through ports or fly in and the ones who we need to work in agriculture will stay home and let our crops rot.

    Thankfully, I grow my own strawberries and tomatoes…

  81. Xenia, The big lies continue . Why would Trump even need to denounce Duke’s or the KKK endorsements – if anyone paid attention to that clip David Duke makes it clear that he does not endorse Trump. This is where the media try to confuse him – denounce something he does not know about because it was non existent. The power of the media even fooled his GOP opponents.

  82. And again missed toward the back half of the clip when asked about the ban on Muslim immigration he answers that it would be just a temporary measure and soon after people would be going in and out.

    How much else do we think we know was fabricated or twisted? Oh wait, I could be endangered of going to PC jail for such words.

  83. Duane Arnold says:

    #79

    Remarkable… read the first two and I’ve just started on “White Trash”… A little over a year ago I presented an academic paper in Ambridge, PA. MGB was with me. The drive there through SE Ohio, West Virginia and W. Penn. was enlightening. Slag heaps, boarded up towns, closed factories… people left behind, churches closed with several turned into mosques… It opened my eyes to what was coming. I just don’t want to see other vulnerable groups offered up as scapegoats, which is what I fear has happened.

  84. Michael says:

    Duane,

    Well said.
    In reality, the people who live in those towns are as vulnerable as those we recognize as threatened today.
    We need to find a place at the table and a voice for all if we are to redeem what is going on.

  85. London says:

    Duane,
    I want you to know that I respect the stand you are taking, the active participation in the protest which shows people that not all Christians are bigots and anti-everyone not like them.

  86. Duane Arnold says:

    #85

    London,

    Many thanks. Yes, with the media reports about patterns of voting, I think about half the country is highly suspicious of “evangelicals” or “Christians”. I was pleasantly surprised at the warm reception I received from other marchers…

  87. John 20:29 says:

    Duane’s #83 – my first time east of the Mississippi, i drove a similar route in 1964 to visit my husband’s father’s family whose roots were in St. Marys, PA … salt of the earth Roman Catholic clan, wonderful, accepting and resourceful people from all over the spectrum from academics to factory workers… at that time driving along the Ohio River was an eye opener – factory after factory after factory – it is sad that our answer to pollution was to kill our industries, pulling the rug out from under so many people… i just know that there must be a better way
    Michael’s #84 -“We need to find a place at the table and a voice for all if we are to redeem what is going on”
    yes, yes, yes, there is much to redeem and, i think, much opportunity to do so right now

    i could be wrong, tho – dunno, do i?

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