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30 Responses

  1. Bob says:


    I thought Joshua had a rather big prep for his leadership role. Back in old Deut he was presented before the people of Israel, God spoke to him. And a bit more.

    Was he prepared? Better than most I would say.

    I don’t know if the tradition was god on at the time, but by the 1st century the Jewish people are given seven days to mourn the dead and then it’s time to move on. It’s called a “shiva” or something like that I believe.

  2. Bob says:

    Tradition was going on at the time

    Correction due to ipad auto type.

  3. monax says:

    I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself
    —that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.
    Correct me, O LORD, but in justice
    —not in your anger, lest you bring me to nothing.

    Jeremiah 10:23-24

  4. Michael says:


    Call it artistic license…

  5. Bob says:

    Big smile!


  6. Dude says:

    Moses sinned and was removed from his ministry……not permited to enter or lead the hebrew people into the promised land.In modern America we have a growing number of pastors who sin and keep on sinning with out repentence and they remain.
    My rant for today.

  7. Bob says:


    You better go and read the account again. Strange considering Moses is also called the most Humble man.

    Maybe we need some lessons.

    Question for you. What specific sin did he commit?

  8. Unbelief in God – that is why he struck the rock more than he was told.

    I am sure that he committed many sins that are natural to man – lust and covetousness.

    What about that guy he murdered in Egypt?

  9. Michael says:

    His sin was unbelief…and worse…he misrepresented the heart of God to the people.
    He was to speak to the rock, not smite it.
    Make your own application…

    ““Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” And Moses took the staff from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
    Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” These are the waters of Meribah, where the people of Israel quarreled with the LORD, and through them he showed himself holy.”
    (Numbers 20:7–13 ESV)

  10. Ricky says:

    It is fascinating how much cross-over there is between ultra-orthodox Jews and their beliefs about End Times and the literal nature of the Old Testament and Calvary Chapel type evangelicals.

    The big difference is the Jews claim they have the proper interpretation of the books they wrote and a lineage they can trace back to determine what the text says, whereas Calvary Chapel type evangelicals are akin to europeans coming on the scene many hundreds and thousands of years later and saying the text really says otherwise.

    Both Groups have a lot, however, that lines up with regards to Zionism and End Times type scenarios, remarkably. The more I explore a sect of the Jewish tradition, the more fascinating it is.

    They believe in demons, like CC, and they believe they can “see demons” like I was told in Calvary Chapel. They also believe in the Nephilim and they believe that Genesis is literal and the earth is young etc.

    They believe that God smites his enemies and is righteous for doing so and they believe that God imparts anointing and special powers to some, etc. and they believe we are in “the last days” until messiah shows up.

    They also believe in “hell” and say hell is mentioned many times in the Old Testament and that (similar to Dante’s Inferno) there are 7 levels of hell.

    They also believe that one of the hells on earth is located under the Temple Mount and they believe in shape-shifters, demons that can manifest themselves and disguise themselves. Really interesting stuff (though I don’t believe it, the lore is fascinating and imaginative much like a lot of the stuff I learned in Calvary Chapel about demonology etc).

    But, the Jews think Calvary Chapel are a bunch of idiots, LOL and have it all wrong, but at least they agree on Zionism…the enemy of my enemy is my friend as they say.

  11. Ricky says:

    Groups appeal to the same text…and they all say the other Groups don’t really know what it says and that the Old Testament “really says this! It’s God’s word! You don’t want to add to God’s word!” yet none take a literal simple meaning applied all the way through, they all add or subtract or explain away things the OT clearly states etc with caveat and asterisk etc.

    “The bible says!” is really: This is what we say the bible says and the others are wrong!

    So far, the dynamic I have observed, is as factual and reliable as gravity.

  12. Ricky, you find the similarities in the Jews and CC when it comes to prophecy and end times because the CC guys, and all rapture theology guys, refuse to read what the New Testament says the OT means / meant.

    So, the CC guys do follow the flow of the Jews. When it comes to prophecy and end times, it’s like the NT doesn’t exist and that jesus, Peter, Paul and the gang never made apostolic proclamations about those things..

    so you are right – they are identical. 🙂

  13. Bob says:

    Ricky sounds like another bobby rant.

    Back to Moses.

    How old was he when he died?
    Does that age match anywhere else in scripture if so is it important to know ?

    Basically Moses wasn’t removed from his ministry he fulfilled it. He was forbidden to enter the land. Why do we need to know that?

  14. Ricky,
    Cogent observations.

    Thanks for sharing.

  15. Bob says:

    Ok since the G man is entertaining Ricky’s rant let me sdk him this ;

    You say all these groups say their ideas about the meaning of scriptures are correct, what do you believe is correct? How do you interpret these things ?

    I think I know how MLD interprets these things and respect his right to do so. So far all you’ve done is rant about how wrong the others are, so what do you say?

    I’ll respect your right to interpret the scriptures, but ranting about their problems is just that, a rant.

  16. Bob says:

    Sdk = ask

    iPhone and fat fingers.

  17. Michael says:

    This has never been a profitable discussion here.
    I would prefer that it not start again .
    Strongly prefer ….

  18. Bob says:

    Sounds good !

    Thanks Michael. I did notice many of your old commenters are showing up.

    Probably because of following what your prefer.

  19. Just paying the man a compliment, Bob.
    I believe in Jesus Christ, so there ya go.

  20. Al says:

    Is Ricky = Bobby?

  21. “Old?”

    “Seasoned” maybe.

    “Been ridden hard and put away wet?”
    Damn straight!

    I prefer “finely aged, with the bouquet of an Aborigine’s armpit…”

  22. Bob says:

    G man

    Good to hear it. But it wasn’t the question.

    And honoring Michael don’t go there.

  23. Captain Kevin says:

    That’s it, Michael…now I know you’ve got a spy cam on me! Been getting kicked up one side and down the other lately, and I don’t like it one bit!

  24. Dude says:

    Sorry I came back rather late.MLD and Micheal beat me to it.
    Moses pleaded with God to complete the task of bringing the hebrew people into to canaan.Duet 3:23-29.Josua was chosen to succeed him.

  25. “….it wasn’t the question.

    And honoring Michael don’t go there.”

    …and, honoring Michael, that remains my answer to your question, no matter how you ask it.

    To clarify, I’ve been spending a lot of time, over the past 5 years, doing live sound and recordings, then posting podcasts to iTunes for OCCSP. My relationships with my conservative Jewish friends is very much as described by Ricky, which is why I affirmed his observations. That is not a criticism or CC or Jewish spirituality, simply my take away from those 5 years and the decades of my involvement with TheCCMovement and ChuckSr & guest teacher tapes that I listened to over decades on the road and attending conferences, prophecy updates, Harvest Crusades and Saturday Night concerts.

    I’ve returned to a more contemplative and introspective spirituality, clinging to Jesus Christ through the journey.


  26. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Only goes to show even the most God fearing Men have their sins and skeletons and are FAR from perfect.

  27. J.U. says:

    In chapter 24 of Joshua, he says goodbye to the Israelites and warns them not to worship false gods. Of course, the Jews promised they wouldn’t, and we all know how well they kept that promise.

    Moses spent a month on the mountain, returned after that short time, and the Israelites were busy worshiping a golden calf. A time frame like that seems to fit a 30 minute TV drama better than people wandering for forty years.

    I’m always looking for the application of verses in our modern lives. In interpreting Joshua’s final words, my view is that there were three major religions in that region in the time of Joshua: Egypt’s, Babylon’s, and the Canaanites (includes all the other peoples in the promised land). So what did they represent?

    Obviously, in today’s society, the issue in general isn’t worship of graven images and we don’t have to worry about believers making idols of Marduk or Baal or Isiris. But often the meaning is in the interpretation. (Isn’t that always the rub when we talk religion and the Bible?)

    I was taught that Egypt stood for wealth, Babylon for the worship of success and power, and the Canaanites religion was about sexual acts. Now those are three religions we need to worry about here in the 21st century. Many a Christian has been trapped in the worship of money or power or sex.

    Interesting how the Bible was written in ancient times, yet is as current as today’s blog. It’s all in the interpretation. Verse 14 of the last chapter: “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord.” How simple the commandment. How difficult to obey.

    22 Then Joshua said, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen to serve the Lord.”

    “Yes, we are witnesses,” they replied.

    23 “Now then,” said Joshua, “throw away the foreign gods that are among you and yield your hearts to the Lord, the God of Israel.”

    24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve the Lord our God and obey him.”

    And Joshua placed a large stone by the oak tree as a memorial of the people’s promise. Then he died and was buried in the land of his inheritance.

    That’s the part of the Joshua story that has always stayed with me.

  28. PP Vet says:

    (This is an Open Blogging comment pending opening of the Open Blogging comments. I could not wait.)

    This article really impacted me.

    Apparently, a cold-blooded analysis shows that countries that had “conversionary” (trying to get people born-again) Protestant missionaries years and years ago are now much healthier countries.

    If interested, this is on the Real Clear Religion page (a site I enjoy). The article is “Those Colonialist Missionaries Weren’t So Bad”.

  29. Chile says:

    PP Vet, I concur. It’s an interesting article. I have friends who were considered conversionary Protestant missionaries in South Africa. They opposed colonization and supported the locals when issues were directly affecting the lives of the people. Their perspective is that the locals were far better off after the gospel was received and ultimately impacted their lives for good.

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