The Battle Begins: The Potters Field Comeback

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27 Responses

  1. Lily Kruut says:

    It is ministries such as PFM that make nonChristians label Christians as hypocrites and turn others away from Christ. What the Rozell’s did was low – they hid behind the Gospel to hurt many people who trusted them and their ministry and to trample the Gospel. This kind of people is what the Bible calls wolves disguised as sheep. My heart goes out to all the young lives who have been affected by the Rozell’s actions. The Rozell’s will have to answer to God for their actions.

  2. Em says:

    “a bookkeeper loaned to us for that purpose by GodSpeak Calvary Chapel of Newbury Park, CA”
    “this item doesn’t look correct, can you explain it to me?” “Oh, I see. Then all is well. Go and be at peace.”

    “One thing we do know – God is not finished with Potter’s Field! ”
    maybe they’ll have a place for AOC and Elizabeth Warren after the election?
    but they well may be correct that God is not finished with them…. 🙂

    Sacrifice for the ministry? Ha! Only do that, if God speaks to you personally… IMHO
    But I only know what i read here, so …..

  3. Ren says:

    “The only restoration they’re interested in is their own…as evidenced by not a single mention of their alleged victims in this missive.”
    Thank you PP for, once again, revealing and clarifying their actions, and keeping the victims at the forefront.
    (I love the Lord, but am much quieter about being a Christian after 3 years internationally with PFM.)

  4. Michaela Griffin says:

    Thank you for always standing for us Michael. I don’t think I could possibly find words to describe how much it means to me, and to us.

  5. Midwife says:

    Michael… I’ll go anywhere I can catch a ride and physically protest these abusers! This makes me very angry and I do not want anymore innocent children taken advantage of, abused and sexually abused. I’m just deeply angry to think these two abusers are free to touch ANY more children or young adults. 😡💪🏽

  6. Captain Kevin says:

    They can’t maintain their current lifestyle by selling pottery, so they attempt to sell a load of crap to gullible donors in Jesus’ Name. Disgusting!!

    Wonder if they’re getting counsel from the well known PR firm of Heitzig and Kessler.

  7. MM says:

    “…and flown back to the relative sanity of California.”

    I loved this comment.

    I think what is the most sad part of this whole mess is how it reveals the flaws in the legacies of CC and Chuck Smith, it’s founder and father. To me at least, it all points back to the spiritual elitism of the “Moses Model,” a fundamental teaching and foundational principal of Chuck Smith.

    If the Rozell’s are truly interested in maintaining their “ministry” and rock star status maybe they should change their leadership and ministry models away from CC and start using the Paula White playbook. It sure seems to be a far more prosperous way of doing business.

  8. Em says:

    Interesting they chose Whitefish, MT. It is a bit of an upscale skiing community – short, pleasant train ride from Seattle… They might not have fared so well in nearby Kallispell….

    I hold some people/Christians in esteem as admirable and better than me, but i never do when i sense that that is how they see themselves…. 🙆

  9. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    Key quote from their “in-house counsel”, “ministry consultant” DiMuro:

    “For right now, it’s not broken, there’s no need to fix it. So we’re just keeping it as it is and we’re brainstorming is there other ways to bring money in.”

    “It’s not broken”… despite all the victims. “There’s no need to fix it” … forget about repentance. “We’re just keeping it as it is”… nothing will change. It’s all about “other ways to bring money in”. It kind of says it all…

  10. Billy says:

    “Third, as a matter of public record there have been no civil suits filed.”

    Two responses to this:

    #1 – This almost sounds like it’s a validation that they did nothing wrong. Coming from a lawyer I guess that’s validation enough for abusers who have fallen so far away from Christ’s path.

    #2 – I have it on good authority from those in-the-know that several individuals have looked into civil suits against Pottersfield and the Rozells and they haven’t moved forward due to that process requiring revisiting the emotional turmoil of the abuse in a public setting. I can understand any victims not wanting to revisit that trauma again, particularly in a court of law.

    I hope it’s abundantly clear for everyone on this blog that not being sued is not absolving of the Rozells’ sins and is also not something as a point of record to look upon favorably for this ministry.

  11. 1 Timothy 5: 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder, except on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 20But those who persist in sin should be rebuked in front of everyone, so that the others will stand in fear of sin.

    Dozens of witnesses. How many are enough?

  12. Em says:

    new victor,
    AMEN !

  13. JesusFreak says:

    If we want to perhaps assume positive intent by the victims, could this be factoring into their decision, as well?

    1 Corinthians 6:1-11 New Living Translation (NLT)

    Avoiding Lawsuits with Christians

    6 When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers[a]! 2 Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves? 3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life. 4 If you have legal disputes about such matters, why go to outside judges who are not respected by the church? 5 I am saying this to shame you. Isn’t there anyone in all the church who is wise enough to decide these issues? 6 But instead, one believer[b] sues another—right in front of unbelievers!

    7 Even to have such lawsuits with one another is a defeat for you. Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.[c]

    9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

  14. Michael says:

    I would hope that none of them would use such a simplistic reason to not seek justice and defend others.
    Jesus lays out the steps for church discipline in Matt 18, the final one being to to treat the offender as an unbeliever.
    Romans 13 instructs us to follow the legal system and Paul himself relied on the law to defend himself in Acts 25.
    I believe we have more than enough witnesses to the sin and I know for a fact that many have asked the Rozell’s to repent.
    All legal options are open to the survivors.

  15. JesusFreak says:

    It may seem simplistic, but does it have to be complex?

    Mt 18 still starts with ‘if a brother’, and the Greek implies a fellow disciple. To treat them as a pagan or tax collector is to disassociate. Your interpretation seems to suggest judging them as a non-believer…which is very dangerous territory, IMO. I could be wrong about your thinking.

    I take Romans 13 to tell us not to break laws. It’s not a license to sue. (Else scripture would contradict the scripture I quoted).

    Paul’s appeal to Caesar was a criminal matter, not civil.

    Certainly all secular legal options are open.

    But we are not promised ‘justice’ in this life. Hard as it may be for the victims to endure (and I myself have been the subject of CC-related abuse, so I get it), my suggested focus would not be on justice. It would be on _healing_.

    V5 above agrees with Mt 18. So who is the leader to intervene? Who is the “Caesar” to whom the victims should appeal?

    I argue it’s McClure.

    Take your cue from the persistent widow in Luke 18. Send McClure (or perhaps the entire CCA leadership council) an email with a different victim story every day. Organize an email campaign to do the same. Do this until he and PFM’s former governing body (CCA) pesters PFM to publicly repent and agree to provide, at their cost, professional (_NOT PASTORAL_) counseling to any victim who comes forward, regardless of ‘statute of limitations’. And/or organize a go fund me to help pay for such victim counseling.

  16. Michael says:

    JesusFreak,

    You overestimate McClure.
    He has said his piece.
    CCA has already disfellowshipped them.
    They will do no more .

    Caesar is in reality any who would donate to these wolves…and it is to them that I appeal in the end.

  17. pstrmike says:

    JF,

    Why don’t you try and pursue this via McClure and the boys at CCA and let us know how that works out for you.

  18. JF,

    Is this “an ordinary dispute?” Like my dog broke out and killed the neighbour’s chickens? Or I accidentally crushed my neighbor’s car backing into the driveway wrong?

    These things go far beyond such petty concerns that might be fixed amongst reasonable people who are willing to be held accountable for such mistakes.

    CC has distanced itself. Even San Jose, led by Don’s son, has removed PFM from their site. CCA is no longer involved. There is no longer any “church” to which to take it to.

    If PFM is spinning up again to reboot, the only accountability seems to be “Caesar” secular authorities. How many young people “the least of these” need to be hurt until this is shut down?

  19. Michael says:

    TNV,

    “How many young people “the least of these” need to be hurt until this is shut down?”
    That is the correct question.

  20. Micah Clark says:

    I was in PFM until July of this year, when everything shut down. I joined in 2017 (January) I actually became a Christian through the program. So my idea of the church was in a lot of cases PFM. When I was in the transition out, I was spiritually, emotionally and physically drained. I was in a state of mass confusion, and as I’ve been able to look back and begin a road of healing…which has been extremely good for me. I know of others unfortunately who have been so deeply pained and their walks with Jesus are in shambles because of everything that happened in PFM.
    I know I have to forgive. I have a heart of forgiveness, but that forgiveness isn’t the same forgiveness I believe that Mike and Pam want. They want to act like nothing has even happened.
    My main confusion comes in at the apology. They apologize for what they had done, but then why the lawyer stating they have done nothing wrong? If you didn’t do anything g wrong, why are you apologizing?
    I’d love to see reconciliation in all of this, but dear Mike and Pam, I hope you guys read this, you both know I love you! However this isn’t biblical! You say God isn’t done with PFM, which He isn’t, but He’s not into fake apologies. He isn’t into fake restoration, but genuine and real repentance and genuine and real restoration, which doesn’t mean you’ll have your “position” back. How much greater is it to have a heart centered on Jesus and simply loving Him and following Him than having a ministry.
    If I never have a ministry, if I never get to serve in church, but I get to be loved by God and love God isn’t that enough?

    And to the rest of us in the church, the only thing we can do is pray. We could all gather together and go to every event they book and protest, but how much greater would it be to pray and watch as God changes the hearts of man! God is more powerful than a whole army of people. He alone can change a heart of stone into a heart of flesh. In the words of Pam Rozell, “Soften my heart Lord, soften my heart. Tear down the walls that keep us apart.” Let this be our pray for all of us and for them.

  21. Em says:

    Good read, Micah, hope you’ve encouraged some disillusioned, doubting souls 🙏

  22. “My main confusion comes in at the apology. They apologize for what they had done, but then why the lawyer stating they have done nothing wrong? If you didn’t do anything g wrong, why are you apologizing?”

    This is because a lot of money is involved, and liability.

  23. Jessica says:

    First Sharon Dimuro is “in house” employee/staff of PFM since Aug. that is not independent. Second, the look back was conducted by a “bookkeeper” loaned by Calvary Chapel Godspeak, Newbury Park CA. So this paid staff member auditing the books. I assume PFM used the labor laws, church status within the IRS etc to concoct a sick twist of rules that meets the legal threshold. Who are the Rozell’s team behind all of this? Their legal team from day 1? And where did they get this model from? Who helped them even come up with the agreements between the students and the ministry? The devil is in the details. And in it we hear the name Calvary Chapel loaned them a bookkeeper? Yet did not Calvary disconnect from PFM? Oh the tangled web we weave when we…. well you know the rest.

  24. JesusFreak says:

    “This is because a lot of money is involved, and liability.”

    And this is why it is not true repentance. True repentance is not concerned with the possible consequences.

  25. MM says:

    JF

    You have a way of making bold black or white statements. I find life is far more tangled than that.

    It is easy for people to say, “this needs to be decided in the church and not the public courts,” and then quote Paul or some text. While such statements are technically true, the application is far more difficult.

    In the case of PF it would be nice for the Rozell’s to step up and say, “we were wrong…” or some other such thing. But, let’s assume they don’t think they were wrong and had followed their interpretation of the scriptures correctly. But, as we know, there are many who accuse them of failure and abuse. How do we resolve these thing?

    In the scriptures there is a judicial system which allows for a court proceeding, witnesses and a fair unprejudiced judgment for or against the accused. But, what if the “church” does not have the ability to provide a fair and unprejudiced court system? The only next step is to take it to the public courts (and the church should be ashamed of that BTW).

    If they are guilty, then yes, there should be consequences and repentance. But what if they are found not guilty?

    My point is there is a Godly system to fairly judge these people. What I appreciate about Phoenix Preacher is Michael has taken the position to be an advocate of the abused. He provides a method which allows them to make their case and tell, as a witness, of any abuse by this “Ministry.”

    So do I expect them to “repent” anytime and admit their guilt? No. Because I think they don’t see where they are guilty of anything. My only hope is this won’t get buried in the court process and the witnesses will be heard and represented.

    Things aren’t just a “sound bytes” of scripture they are applications in life.

  26. Michael says:

    I would also note that all parties have been asked for comment and they could post here just like the victims can…

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