The Calvary Chapel Chronicles

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86 Responses

  1. richard says:

    do you think the fear of losing one’s livelihood and also the fear of litigation (lawyers) also plays a big part in people not wanting to go on record ?

  2. Michael says:

    Richard,

    Yes on both counts…as well as fearing the wrath of the family.
    They prefer I shoulder those risks…

  3. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    Excellent account. Might you wish to add that the information you received on the Coy case was passed by at least two lawyers that I know of, and there may have been more with the involvement of the reporter in Florida. I say this only to emphasize that the material is dealt with responsibly…

  4. Michael says:

    Thank you, Duane.
    Yes, it was looked at by attorneys and also shown to those I trust to help me make decisions on such matters.
    One of the reasons I deferred to a local reporter was to have the piece vetted by a legal department and editors.
    We’ve followed the same pattern as much as possible from the beginning.

  5. JM says:

    Again, Thank you Michael for persevering. It is most likely that many of us do not know the depths of the blows you take in order to make these postings. Knowing the enemy of our souls does not like the light of truth–you are probably being pummeled all too often. We recognize this and lift you up daily. May God give you physical strength and send you His people to give you help and encouragement. May you receive the water of grace when you are parched.

  6. Jean says:

    Michael,

    Regarding the allegation of child molestation, would any of those anonymous sources who are pastors be subject to federal or state mandatory reporting requirements? It seems, even apart from this question, that these anonymous sources were/are more concerned about their personal inconvenience than the welfare of children who might be prayed upon by a sick individual. I thought I read somewhere about suffering for the sake of righteousness.

  7. John says:

    When a minor is involved, wouldn’t laws be broken if this was not reported?

  8. John Donne says:

    You could have published the police report in redacted fashion to protect the victim’s identity.

    Also my question is if there is a police report, then someone, wether it was the child’s parents and/or another witness would have been sufficient to proceed in a case against him, so why hasn’t he been arrested, or is been prosecuted?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but biblically doesn’t an accused individual have the right to be confronted by his accusers face-to-face?
    And even in our system of jurisprudence, a person is innocent until proven guilty, but here you are already steering up a lynch mob mentality against someone who hasn’t been charged, let alone prosecuted or found guilty, and without following Biblical guidelines proceeded to further beat down a beaten man, without hearing both sides of the issue, basing it on nameless faceless witnesses who are not willing to come up to the plate and follow the biblical and legal procedures .

  9. Michael says:

    John Donne,

    Everyone who has seen the document has agreed that there is no way to publish any part of it without the victim being identified.
    The question as to why he hasn’t been prosecuted is one to take up with the authorities, not me.
    He has been confronted by numerous people.

  10. Captain Kevin says:

    Amen to JM.

  11. Michael says:

    Jean,

    The matter had already been reported.

  12. Michael says:

    Thank you, JM.
    Prayers much appreciated these days…

  13. bob says:

    Bob Coy, founder of the Fort Lauderdale Calvary Church, is accused of abusing the child from an early age until she was a teenager.

    According to the girl’s mother, Coy forced the girl to perform oral sex, “finger and fondle her” genitals, force her touch his penis and engage in “dirty talk”, reports the Miami New Times.

  14. Another sad reality is that the people who are demanding sources would (a) never break the no talk rule if it protected someone in their interest, and (b) wouldn’t care who the source is if it supported their poor view of someone else.

  15. bob says:

    Maybe Bob’s huge CC $everance pay helped quiet the families accusations?

  16. bob says:

    How was it that Coy was the millionaire darling of the movement from 2000 onward and often the keynote speaker at most senior pastors conferences… Where was the discernment?

  17. The New Victor says:

    Speaking as one who reported my ex brother-in-law regarding my daughter (who had just turned 3) I came to find out that the burden of proof is high, and rarely is there physical evidence (DNA). Criminal cases are often closed given no evidence and most don’t make it to trial.

  18. Em says:

    Using anonymous sources when making accusations is a very dicey approach – i’ve been on the receiving end and it gives the accused no way to refute the story and you live under a cloud…
    That said, as i read these reports here they are very factual, going far beyond “he said, she said.”
    Shame on those little men who hide behind, “don’t tell anyone i said this…”. It is hard to say, God forgive them and i’m not at all convinced He would….
    Thankfully, God has raised up the Phoenix Preacher to – IMO – give these men and our churches an opportunity to confess and repent
    Too long we’ve assumed that God’s love means that He just smiles and says, “Oh well, they’re all sinners you know.”

  19. Jeff Sheckstein says:

    There is no requirement under most states mandatory reporting laws re reporting a child’s abuse for a pastor to report if the information comes to him via third parties (I.e. heresay) that are not under his control/employ. So merely the fact any pastor hears of abuse, unless it’s from a person employed or volunteering at his church, has not duty to report.

    A police report is not a basis to report since the “reporting” requirement has already been met…ergo the existence of a police report.

  20. Kevin H says:

    The concerns of livelihood and litigation and facing the wrath of others is certainly understandable. But it is still a bloody shame that no pastor or CC insider that has been involved in or privy to these scandals (Coy, Chuck Smith’s infidelity, the many others, etc.) and has fed the information to Michael has seemingly ever stepped up to go on the record about it.

    How much good it could do for the organization/movement if someone were to break the unspoken barrier? Once one does it in situations like these, it often leads to others following suit. How much could the culture be positively affected is this were to happen? How much could the culture have been beneficially affected if someone had broken the barrier years ago? How much may the culture have changed and made it harder for pastors and leaders to get away with deleterious behavior? How many victims may have been spared their pain? Some questions for serious thought.

  21. pstrmike says:

    “Where was the discernment?”

    Good question. Every time the man opened his mouth, I cringed. However, the last time I heard him speak, which was probably a year or two before he resigned, he actually gave a decent message and he didn’t seem to interject himself in every thought – which was, in my opinion – his favorite topic to talk about. Go figure.

  22. Michael says:

    Well said, Kevin.

  23. Michael says:

    “Discernment” is perhaps the most overblown concept in evangelicalism.

    If someone tows the doctrinal line, how the hell is anyone supposed to know they’re morally defiled?
    God could supernaturally inform someone …and good luck to them if they act on it.

    What’s frustrating is when someone who has been married three times and has cheated on two still has a job in ministry.
    That doesn’t take “discernment”, it takes the cajones to call it what it is.

  24. bob says:

    So the cc franchise operates with the emperors new clothing mentality… until a blog owner speaks up and tells it like it is!?!

  25. Michael says:

    bob,

    I can’t name a group at this point that doesn’t work that way.
    CC just had the misfortune of ticking me off… 🙂

  26. Michael says:

    I think this culture is a problem across the board in Christendom and one of the reasons we’re shrinking…

  27. Steve says:

    Kevin,
    I think if the pastors would come forward and speak about these things it truly would be beneficial and cause a ripple affect that is positive and long lasting. It could even be a catalyst of a revival that many of these same pastors supposedly are praying to see. Unfortunately, I believe almost all of them would need to probably resign and allow God to rebuild if possible the empty shell of CC with faithful non members in their non denomination. Repentance is hard to do but without some major resignations out there confessing to these problems that they did nothing about, I see things just getting worse. Just my opinion.

  28. Ms. ODM says:

    Is Joe Sabolick going to get honorable mention?

  29. Erunner says:

    We had a next door neighbor a year older than me who came up to our daughter’s bedroom window and proceeded to describe her bedroom to her and then tried to get her to come to his place. I walked into our front room and found our daughter crying and my wife holding her. They told me what happened and I went next door and banged on the door till he came out. I went nuts yelling and screaming at him but thankfully didn’t lay a hand on him. I then called the police and they came out and said they believed me but said there was nothing I could do about it. I then called the owner of the home (the guy was a renter) and threatened her that I would go all around the area naming her and stating she was knowingly renting to a pedophile. That led to her having him and his room mates all thrown out. If he had touched her I would have hurt him physically. I’ve heard and read here pastors saying pretty much the same thing while not precluding killing the guy. It’s sad and pathetic to read of these things taking place among God’s people. We had a CC Pastor nearby years ago who was found to be molesting a neighbor boy. It was reported here. Adultery and fornication are bad enough when it comes to clergy but when you include child molestation it goes to another level. Don’t be fooled into thinking Bob Coy is the only CC pastor or staff member who has been accused of this evil. There is a thing called the sin of omission. It is not a respcter of persons.

  30. Erunner says:

    What is the solution if you find a pedophile in leadership at your church? Do you look at statistics that indicate these individuals are very likely to again do the very same thing? Or do you take the approach that God is forgiving and that this person can be restored after a time as God can “heal” him? I suspect some churches choose the latter and eventually more of the same takes place as he is moved on down the road or state. At the same time I believe there is forgiveness and healing for anyone but that means stepping away from ministry and away from children as they seek the help they desperately need. I imagine in some cases a person may find that God is the only one willing to forgive them if they are truly repentant. Coming to grips with the fact your life may never be the same can be a burden you will carry the rest of your life.

  31. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “What is the solution if you find a pedophile in leadership at your church?”
    I think this was the original reasoning for have cemeteries on church grounds – you bury your problem… literally.

  32. Em says:

    I think that you kick the perp out – literally and publicly, not sure you can kill him/her, tho. 😱
    If you don’t do this, YOU are in trouble with God… too many in leadership roles in our churches, for whom god is a theory or something – no fear – who think it is virtuous to run their church like a business…. I recall being shocked when taking an accounting class, learning that embezzlement was usually handled by quietly firing the person…. Company reputation was prime consideration…. But that was long years ago, maybe things are due for a change everywhere… sigh
    Maybe the pew sitters will wise up?

  33. Matt says:

    New Victor and Erunner and others…I am so sorry for what you have gone through with your children. I feel for the pastors and others who are fearful (with good cause) that if they publicize the issues it will cause dishonor to Christ among unbelievers. What they don’t realize is their silence is just as bad, as sins come to light eventually. We had a person in ministry leadership at my CC who was arrested for an “affair” with a minor (outside the church). Our pastor addressed it head on with the congregation in an honorable/transparent way. I was thankful for that. The pain is still borne by the congregation, but that is part of being a family.

  34. Sharon says:

    What if the sexual child abuse is covered up by a pastor and the church’s attorney? Is the attorney mandated by law to report the crime? It seems hard to believe the Catholic church’s counsel or Coy’s was not aware of these events. Also the news reported today one of the largest awards in history from the Catholic Church for sexual child abuse that happened years ago! Does anyone know if there is a statue of limitations for these crimes?

  35. Michael says:

    Sharon,

    The statute of limitations varies from state to state.

  36. Jeff Sheckstein says:

    Sharon

    Mandatory reporters under most state laws are in the class of persons titled “child custodians, that is people who are child care workers, teachers, day care workers, foster care parents and the like who by virtue of their employment (or volunteering) come into direct contact with children.

    Therefore, an atore you of the church or child care institution would not be a “mandatory reporter.”

  37. Jeff Sheckstein says:

    Attorney

  38. Jim says:

    Hearing from affiliated pastors (not cc) during my little blog stint was surreal. Before receiving some insider info, I’d hear support with caveats, or just boldly be told that what I was doing was sin. I guess they had to get that out of the way before spilling the beans.

    These were soft men who would not abide being called cowards, and I needed to keep the door open, so I refrained. Even the ones who left, with or without their churches were obsessed with “leaving well”, which should be translated as using bogus excuses.

    Brent was the only man among them.

    The emotional toll dealing with these insiders, and far worse, interacting with the victims was a tiny fraction of what Michael has endured, and I don’t know how he does it.

    Michael is a lion in a world of mice.

  39. Michael says:

    Jim,

    God bless you…you stood up for a long time.
    You’re one of very few who knows what this is really like…and I’m glad you’re still here .

  40. AddisonDeWitt says:

    Kinda like the Mob isn’t it

  41. JD says:

    If it was like the mob, Michael would certainly have at least been roughed up a little by now.

  42. bob says:

    Who said he hasn’t??? He has physically, emotionally and spiritually paid a very high price to speak the truth… Just because there is not a horses head in his bed doesn’t mean he not being “watched”or threatened…

  43. Candance McGee says:

    After reading as many of these comments as I can stomach, I have a couple of comments of my own, and a couple of questions. I’ll start with the questions.
    For all of you who are ready to throw Bob Coy and all of the CC leadership in prison (or a shallow grave), I have to ask, did you read the entire article? Are you aware that as of this time, there is only one person accusing him of child molestation, and she asked that her “case be destroyed”? There is absolutely zero proof that any sex crime ever occurred involving any child and Bob Coy. Yet the lot of you are preparing the torches and pitchforks because some Left leaning cyber “news” rag (the quotation marks are there for a reason) drags a story out a REALLY long time, in hope’s it will bore you enough you won’t read the whole thing. I’m guessing they were successful with most of you, or you would realize that the “accusation” is completely without any merit whatsoever.
    I am a retired police officer, so I know a little bit about this sort of thing. As a woman, I got stuck with more than my fair share of sexual assault reports. After awhile, you get a feel for the real deal vs a phony report. Without even seeing the report, there are a couple things wrong with this claim. The first is the “news outlet” reporting it.
    Anyone with any discernment can clearly see the “Miami New Times” is a Lefty propaganda rag, is anti Christian, and has made ridiculous references regarding “so and so’s support of Republicans here”, etc. These are obviously attempts to alienate the readers against Calvary Chapel in particular, Christianity in general, not to mention slandering a man who has not even been charged with the horrific crime. But I see a few folks have jumped on the “mob mentality” band wagon and are fixing to further ruin a man’s life. Has everyone forgotten the mass hysteria behind the McMartin Daycare scandal?
    For those of you who have forgotten, or were not yet around, the McMartins were a family who ran a daycare in Manhattan Beach, California in the ’80s. That is until one day a little boy’s mother revealed her son had been sexually and physically abused by the staff at the daycare, who were also Satan worshippers. After “professional child psychologists” interviewed that boy, and then started interviewing his classmates, suddenly the McMartins found themselves at the center of the most horrific child sex scandal this state had ever seen! It took over two years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, God only knows how many hours of de-programing these poor kids, to prove the whole thing was bogus!
    The original claims were made by a paranoid schizophrenic mother who had coached her own child into making those claims. The rest of the children were led right into their testimonies by the so-called “child experts”. The entire story was fiction, but the McMartins were ruined, financially, emotionally, psychologically, and there are still people out there who believe they are guilty. Several other groups and individuals have fallen prey to the same false claims in the following decade or so, and it appears Bob Coy has now joined their ranks.
    For starters, there is only one accuser. Pedophiles are serial offenders. They don’t just stop at one. If there was one 4 year old girl, there would be dozens. But so far, there is one, and she dropped the charges.
    Next, IF Bob Coy was a pedophile, there would have been evidence of that on his computer or in his home or SOMEWHERE in the investigation of him previously. His life was torn apart and gone over with a fine tooth comb. These people leave trails, they can’t help themselves. It STARTS with pictures and videos, and evolves into the actual acts.
    So when one teenager pops up, who happens to attend a megachurch, with a famous pastor, and she claims, out of the blue, to have been molested by him for a period stretching out over a decade, and there is zero corroborating evidence…you have a very good reason why the authorities have not pursued the case. There isn’t one.
    Pastors are human. They make mistakes. As Jesus said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
    That is not me excusing Bob Coy for committing adultry, using illegal drugs, and using pornography while a pastor. That is me reminding the mob that every human used by God is fallible, and fails. Sometimes in a really big way. Remember King David? Adultry followed by murder? Yet God called David a man after His own heart.
    Remember, as you flail away at Chuck Smith, that we are not assigned to judge others, “lest we be judged”
    But we are to be fruit inspectors. I would have say that the overall harvest of the Calvary Chapel movement has been very, VERY GOOD FRUIT!! Remember, good fruit cannot come from a bad tree, and bad fruit cannot come from a good tree. The fruit are the souls saved. I believe it is safe to say millions of souls are in Heaven and/or on their way to Heaven rather than Hell because God chose Chuck Smith to lead the Jesus Movement. By way of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa…etc.
    Chuck was a fallible man, and he was the first to admit it. But I still ponder what you hope to accomplish with this “blog”, which rings more like an attempt to discredit a man who accomplished something that maybe you didn’t. I don’t want to say that it seems like you’re jealous of the success of the CC movement, but every time I read another blog, it seems more and more true. Your cheer squad also sound like bitter “ugly step-sisters”. It’s OK to not like Calvary Chapel Churchs…to each his own. But to snipe at an entire Christian movement, that is so obviously used by God in such a powerful way is detrimental to the Body of Christ. I am having a difficult time understanding why this is so difficult for you to understand. It is just plain mean spirited gossip, as I hope I have illustrated above. You know how God feels about gossip.

  44. bob says:

    Dear Ms retired Police Officer, I’ve heard your type of justifying the abuser rants many times before, don’t cast stones, don’t judge, David also sinned, but so much good came from it, blah. blah, blah… But the worst is when you (in your 2 bit authority as a former police officer) Blame the victim as being a lying teen! Do you know for a FACT that she is lying and Bob is innocent? Did she confess to making the story up? Get off your high horse and stop blaming the victim! How many witness are needed when a child is raped? 1!

    I think God hates pedos and those who cover for them more than he hates perceived gossip!

  45. UnCCed says:

    And exactly how the h— do CCs still talk about “The Moses Model?”
    Where exactly do we have “verse by verse” examples of the no talk-rule and “the 70 elders” running around covering everything up and threatening?
    Oh yea, we don’t. BUT WE DO HAVE THE BIBLE (remember that?) clearly exposing all the sin everywhere, including Moses being rebuked by God, not allowed to go into the Promised Land (starting the umpteenth CC where the surf is good), then dying.

    To Candace, if you really don’t think the Coy (or any other story) can’t be possible and the rest of Christendom is evil or making this up, you clearly haven’t been a believer very long or around CCs that long.
    As Michael stated, many CC pastors (previous and current) regularly communicate to him.
    You’re approaching flat-earthing if you doubt that fact.
    Second, thousands of us who’ve been hear spent decades in CCs, some, including myself, in different states, know firsthand about the culture and its issues.
    Finally, and most important, use WHAT CC CLAIMS by its “verse by verse” to see every epistle (most of our doctrine) was written, in part, to deal with sin, including its leaders. In other words, Paul and others throughout each of its letters clearly lays-out the sin and what to do about it. You can’t get from the NT “oh just trust the self-elected chairMAN and his handpicked yes men to deal with everything.” JESUS HIMSELF wrote (7 letters) to spank at least 6 churches or what Chuck Smith taught (and I agreed with) representations of what occurs/has occurred throughout church history, including to rebuke the leaders (messengers).
    Also, God made it very clear in the OT how he feels about people being abused, even by His own people – he repeatedly judged them for it AND THE LEADERS FOR DOING IT USING OTHER PEOPLE AS HIS MOUTHPIECE FOR THE JUDGEMENT.
    If you really believe Jesus wants the church to be silent when women and children are being abused, we (most of the church for its history) and you don’t know the same God, or at the very least, you’ve been taught a very skewed version of the Bible.
    I will concede one kuddo to you. You stated “As a woman.” Well, most men who convulse here about any criticism of CCs usually do so due to any perceived threat to their $/power or their plan to achieve it when they get to setup their own fiefdom. Clearly (EVERYONE in CCs will attest) you, as a woman, you WILL NEVER achieve any position of power or real influence in CCs so I seriously applaud you can’t be contradicting Michael out of personal loss, you can’t possibly be at risk for losing anything WHICH NO CC MAN will ever allow you to have. I’ve personally been in “training” programs where comments were made to use like “never ask a woman about the Holy Spirit” and what men really feel about women.
    One last thing Candace, and please think on this separately for you own good. I read some politically-charged comments in your post I’d like to speak to. As a Combat Vet, I can assure you NO POLITICAL party gives a hoot about you, whatever you care about, or really anything, but protecting power. We Vets (a lot of us) have learned this the hard way and now live accordingly. You’d do yourself much good, credit, and be taken more seriously if you base your position on more facts without politics.

  46. Michael says:

    Candace,

    Your comment is similar to thousands we’ve received over the years.
    Ignore the charges and try to kill the messenger with bad theology.
    First of all, this story came from CC people and I wouldn’t touch it unless I was completely convinced of it’s truth.
    Do you have any idea what kind of risk this story is to me?
    The official reasons for there not being charges are that the statute of limitations had expired and the victim refused to proceed.

    “Next, IF Bob Coy was a pedophile, there would have been evidence of that on his computer or in his home or SOMEWHERE in the investigation of him previously. His life was torn apart and gone over with a fine tooth comb.”

    There has never been an investigation of Coy by a law enforcement agency.

    “For starters, there is only one accuser. Pedophiles are serial offenders. They don’t just stop at one.”

    That fact keeps me up nights sometimes…and it always will.
    That is why we ran this story .

    I’ll address the rest in a bit.

  47. JM says:

    Candance McGee,

    The fact that, with your background, you could say what you did–scares me! Your rant says way more about you and how willing you are to be in denial to support the fantasy that you have held for probably way too many years. Wake up and smell the reality. You have just done a great disservice to all those who have told the truth and have suffered under this entity. I hope you will take the time that will be necessary to read over the many posts over the many years of this blog that will more than bolster what Michael has asserted. Then maybe you will take your own advice and not be so quick to judge.

    Below are links to articles on Calvary Chapel pastors who have committed acts on minors. These were from when I used to collect this information. The amount of information and links became too much for me to track.

    Just imagine CC sexual abuse was an iceberg and these incidents were less than the 10% of the iceberg that is normally seen on the top of the water. If you can do the math–then you will know that sexual abuse, molestation, adultery and all manor of perversion is a systemic problem inside of CC. For your own credibilty, you need to rethink your stand.

    Lastly, the reason that good things happened even under the auspices of the corrupt Calvary Chapel system was not because it meant that all things were good there. Nothing earthly is all good. It is simply further testimony to the fact that God is very good and will show kindness to His people wherever they happen to be. We have to learn to differentiate that very important point.

    http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/11_12/2006_11_15_Holland_PoliceSeek.htm
    https://www.northcoastjournal.com/humboldt/gods-lamentation/Content?oid=2131370
    https://www.tbo.com/news/youth-pastor-accused-of-having-sex-with-teen-102120
    https://www.ocweekly.com/christopher-raymond-olague-pastor-accused-of-molesting-girl-8-and-having-child-porn-that-included-female-relative-6-pleads-not-guilty-6444501/

    I haven’t even included the excruciatingly sad story of a young man who committed suicide over the way a case of child molestation was handled at….wait for it…Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. It was all with the knowledge and direction of Chuck Smith. Your idol fell a long time ago.

    Good luck to you and all those that may be finally dealing with the truth of what was really going on.

  48. Michael says:

    Candace,

    I’ll now address the rest of your yowling.
    Theologically, you have some issues…and I suspect I know where you got them.
    The King David example you gave is always posted here in incomplete form.
    The consequences of his sin followed him the rest of his life by God’s decree.
    David also occupied a unique spot as head of a theocracy under a different covenant.
    Pastors are held to higher standards and those standards are found in the NT.
    We all are commanded to judge…

    “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.””
    (1 Corinthians 5:12–13 ESV)

    “I don’t want to say that it seems like you’re jealous of the success of the CC movement, but every time I read another blog, it seems more and more true. ”

    I’ve read this one since the first day I published the blog so many years ago.
    I”ve never understood it.

    “Success” isn’t a biblical measure of ministry.
    “Faithfulness” is.

    I’m sorry that you have been informed otherwise.

    In reality, this site has been able to reach multitudes that only a very small handful of CC churches (or any other kind of churches) can claim.

    Maybe they’re jealous of me…

  49. The New Victor says:

    That is not me excusing Bob Coy for committing adultry, using illegal drugs, and using pornography while a pastor.

    This.

    The rest of what you are describing is a “textbook” predator pedophile. Others just take advantage of opportunities rather than seeking victims on the street, say.

    I once knew a guy who was “clean” for decades. He ended up being a correctional officer some time in his 30s. Good career here in California. When his daughters were teens and they started having their young (13-14) teenage girl friends over, he apparently couldn’t help himself. He gave them alcohol at the house, filmed them secretly when they changed into swimsuits and even fondled them. Thankfully for the girls, it stopped there. He was foolish enough to admit to the wrong person that he didn’t see anything wrong with supplying minors a little alcohol and that person reported it, which launched an investigation.

    When the news of his arrest became public, not a single one of us in the old crew was surprised or doubted it, because when we knew him in his 20s, he was known to sleep with a lot of women (dozens) whenever he could. I wonder if he ended up in PC at the same prison where he worked… because he was convicted and sent to prison. He had a good life after a rough start, yet fell due to his sexual addictions.

  50. Xenia says:

    Do all the claims come from this one girl? Is there any corroborating evidence?

  51. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    I’ll send you the police report. You’ll understand the situation then.

    Yes, there is corroboration, but I can’t publish that either.

  52. Xenia says:

    Do NOT send me the police report.

  53. Xenia says:

    Since there is corroboration, I will only say what you’ve all been saying: What a terrible, terrible thing this man has done.

    I don’t want to see the police report because I am a very impressionable person and I am not one who is able to read accounts of graphic sex and violence without being negatively impacted for a very long time afterward.

  54. ( |o )====::: says:

    Ah, Candace, so skilled at the eye-speck diagnosis.
    I pray thee, please don’t turn your head lest you whack yet another in the midst.

    O_o

    “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?”
    ~that Jesus guy

  55. Em says:

    I will give Candace a hearing – she has paid her dues on this topic
    HOWEVER
    She is very ignorant of the people here, most of whom have paid their dues also and speak from a frame of reference gained over decades of involvement with the folks under scrutiny now. Experience that is hedged in by the instructions our Lord left for His Church.
    BTW…. The fruit as listed in Gal. 5, is character, the character produces deeds – we could do better, perhaps …
    But, yes, God can and does work around our flaws or not much good would ever happen …

  56. Eric says:

    “Innocent until proven guilty” is the standard when we are talking about criminal convictions and penalties. The idea being that it is better to let a few offenders off rather than send an innocent person to jail. This is erring on the side of caution.

    But when it’s something like deciding whether someone isn’t safe to be a church employee, once an allegation has been raised, then the side of caution is the other way. Better to deny someone employment than to put children at risk. It can be more like “suspect until proven innocent”. Better to drag one man’s name through mud than to put many children at risk of abuse.

    Yes, it’s hard on anyone accused (or simply marked as suspect) wrongly. But if we’re going to err – and there will always be times the truth isn’t correctly discerned – we need to look at which is the greater risk. (The trouble is when the accused party is powerful enough to make legal threats; this distorts justice).

    I haven’t articulated it that well, but this is a distinction that is important in this discussion.

    Having said this, Michael is still being painstakingly careful so you know that when he waves a red flag, there is truth there. Maybe not evidence to send someone to jail, but certain enough that it is not fair to let him serve in a church.

  57. Steve says:

    Basically any pastor who follows the traditional Moses Model practice should be dealt with a great deal of suspicion. By its very definition, the Moses Model has no accountability for senior pastors. Zero. Scary stuff to say the least.

  58. bob says:

    Candace, the PHP community Bob C and Chuck if your listening,

    I want to apologize for my harsh tone and judgmental spirit… I was really convicted last night by the HS and realize I too am a filthy sinner saved only by His Grace and Mercy. I will try to refrain from harsh responses in the future and try not to type out rashly of what I am thinking at the moment (so easy to do anonymously on a blog)… I wish evil on the name of no man, living or dead, only Mercy which I also beg the Lord for myself… Please forgive/excuse me.

  59. Em says:

    FWIW
    bob, give me the not so nice honest responses here any day, over the sanitized and contrived spiritual veil that sometimes gets thrown up (pun not intended, but too good to rephrase LOL)
    you 9:06 apology shows where your heart is when all is said and done… and much of your 6:46 am was accurate, BTW …. IMNSHO 🙂

  60. Jessica says:

    I have a feeling its the tip of the iceberg. And equally shocking as the molestation is the board of trustee, pastors etc who saw signs or knew something and turned their head. I have too spoken to 2 past pastors off record who told me the inner church was aware of Coy’s moral failing.
    Shamefully they seem to place him up there week after week to keep notoriety. It turns my stomach to think we were all used. I now believe it has a cult influences over its inner management.

  61. JM says:

    Jessica,

    Much like the Iceberg Analogy, there is an old saying that goes something like: “If what we know is this bad–then how bad is what we don’t know?”

    Your reaction is healthy. It is slothful to think that we still know about all incidents or that all incidents are isolated. Likewise it is impossible and willfully blind to think that this kind of rot did not emanate from the top down. Even something as cold as mathematical odds could demonstrate how extremely unlikely all of this could be random or isolated. I don’t think people are still awake enough to realize how deep and wide is all of this.

    My prayer is that the perps that have not yet been identified will not defy the call from God to repent. If they do–God, himself, will orchestrate a situation in which they are exposed from the outside and there will not be the level of mercy there would have been. I don’t know if I will get to see it in my day, but I trust God that it will happen. If Israel was punished for how it treated its own people, how much more so the church-at-large for the same thing. Maybe moreso. The Messiah has come and these perverts are sullying His name for their own sick gratification.

    Good luck to these deluded fatheads who think they are still hidden. They lack the healthy fear of God and their pride will be their downfall. This goes for those that think they can hide just because they didn’t actually do the act, but rather were “only”complicit in the cover up. Just like the getaway driver who is charged with murder when their compadres kill, they are as guilty and dirty as it gets. They are idiots if they also think they can hide.

  62. The New Victor says:

    “My prayer is that the perps that have not yet been identified will not defy the call from God to repent. If they do–God, himself, will orchestrate a situation in which they are exposed from the outside and there will not be the level of mercy there would have been.”

    Well, it’s been happening with the RCC for years. What’s sad is that these abuses have been going on for thousands of years, and in families since the beginning of time.

  63. JM says:

    New Victor–

    VERY good points. I confess that I think of the way the RCC has handled everything and hope that is not the way things will unfold with CC. The recent and continuing revelations about the RCC prove one point I made. Just when it is thought that most of the abuse is known– they find another pile of perversion even bigger than the last one. Some feel destroyed over it all.

    When everything comes out about CC, will people be ready or will it be too much for their psyches?

    If one has a hard time, even to denial, about Chuck’s and CC’s decline into its various sins, then there is a missing balance. Leaders fail all the time. It is appropriate to feel sad and even grieve. It is appropriate to forgive. It is not appropriate to lie to ourselves or others about the truth of it to prop up our own worldview, etc.. It is also not appropriate or loving to the pastor or the congregation to ignore a pastor’s sin of disqualification. If he doesn’t repent, then his heart is shown to be about him and not the welfare of the church–no matter what kind of slobber he says to the contrary. Show him the door. Truth in the beginning is always the best course. Otherwise, you have a recipe for an impotent and corrupt church body that may corrupt all that are near. Have we not seen that somewhere before?

  64. Cherri says:

    Candace thank you for your service and suspect you endured a lot of abuse on the job. In reporting to CPS or police a child molestation especially someone high profile like Bob Coy and with the reported evidence and witnesses it is rather unusual that Bob has not been arrested thus far. There is a glitch somewhere and if someone can offer some explanation why the delay by the DA to file charges would be helpful?
    Bob there is always something very attractive about a man that can humble himself before the Lord.

  65. Joel Wilhelm says:

    Have all the CC posts on this site been gathered into one place/document that could aid in getting up to speed on things?

  66. Michael says:

    Joel,

    No, but you can search under the title and they all come up.

  67. Candance McGee says:

    Dear unCEed (and several other folks here);
    It seems you misunderstood my response to the “fake news” report that was attached to one of Michael’s Calvary Chapel Chronicles.
    Most of the lashing out I have read this far seems to indicate that folks think I believe CC and all its pastors are somehow perfect and above reproach. Oh please. Not only did I not say that, I clearly stated I am a retired police officer, and anybody who knows anything about cops knows we have a reputation for knowing way too much about the ugly side of life. I can usually size up a person within minutes of meeting them, and while I may not be able to tell you exactly what their specific vices may be, I can almost always pick out the good from the bad.
    What I said about Bob Coy was that one cannot, and should not, accuse ANYONE of being a pedophile based on the accusations of one teenage girl who decided she wanted her case “destroyed”. And if anyone based their opinion of his guilt on that one accusation, fortified by that “news” attachment, I have reason to believe they either did not read the entire article, or chose to ignore the parts about “zero evidence”.
    You see, without evidence, there is no crime. Without a victim, there is no crime. You cannot prosecute someone for a crime that, for all intents and purposes, did not even happen. Because with no victim, and no evidence, you have no crime. I am speaking directly about the Bob Coy accusation. I am not speaking of any other accusations, because I know nothing about them. But I have to tell you all this; if you’re placing this much false confidence in a nothing case against Bob Coy, I have little confidence in the veracity of your other claims.
    You see, as a cop, one of the ways we test the honesty of a person being questioned is by asking mundane questions. When you catch someone lying about one thing, you have to assume they will lie about something else. When someone will believe an empty, hollow accusation against one man, and willingly besmirch that man’s name on the internet, they will believe any piece of juicy gossip that floats their way.
    I am not saying that Bob Coy is innocent of any wrongdoing. He certainly has messed up big time. But the allegation of child molestation is completely without any merit, whatsoever.
    Folks are also under the impression that I somehow believe CC pastors overall are innocent of any wrongdoing. Wrong again. I am not naive. But I’m also gullible. Just because someone has accused someone of something, it doesn’t make it true. In case you haven’t noticed, men of the cloth are often targets of false claims. Even exaggerated claims can do irreparable damage to one’s reputation, and people of the World just LOVE dragging down people of God. It’s very sad when the people of God join in, with gusto.
    UnCCed, I don’t know where you get the idea that I think politics or the government is my “friend”, but, once again, I am not naive. Also, again, been a female ALL MY LIFE, I am far more conscious of how wonderful we women are treated in the real world than 99.9999% of men. If Calvary Chapel has misconstrued the New Testament, they’re not the only ones. I have no ambition to “rise” any higher than God wills me to. I have a pretty decent connection to the Holy Spirit, and thus far I have not felt the desire to pastor my own church.
    I have NO IDEA where you get the idea that I condone the victimization of women, children, or anyone else. Nowhere in my comments do i ever indicate that abuse of ANYONE is ok. Perhaps you should re-read my post again, as well as the so-called “news” report. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. It’s also why I’m on this site, even though I am in the minority, being attacked by pretty much everyone. Because I see an attack perpetrated on a person with absolutely no evidence to back up the claim…of child abuse.
    You are accusing me of saying things I not only did not say, but I never would say. As are a number of others on this site. It points directly to what I AM saying. That what is being promoted here is gossip, hate, and downright lies.
    Obviously I do not know which are misunderstandings and which are outright lies…or maybe I am just trying to be more polite than some of the rest of you. For your information, I have been attending Calvary Chapels since the early ’70’s. I have been studying the Bible since I was 14 years old. I labor under no delusions that Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie, Raul Ruiz (especially that guy), or any others, are (were) perfect men who should be placed on pedestals and worshipped as little super-humans who are better than the rest of us. They are/were not. But they have been, for whatever reason, chosen by God to lead their respective churches, and those churches have been blessed greatly. Those men have stumbled, and God has dealt with them accordingly. Jon Courson has lost one wife and a teenage daughter, yet he continues on. I do not believe God took his family members as forms of punishment, just as I do not believe He took Greg Laurie’s son for that purpose. But both of those men have grown stronger in their faith despite their horrible heartache.
    So, I am sorry that you hold this bitterness in your heart. Whatever horrible thing that happened to you while you were part of Calvary Chapel, apparently it has made you hard and unforgiving. But please don’t use that as an excuse to create false accusations against anyone associated with CC churches. You’ve certainly had a hay day with me, simply because I have pointed out some weaknesses in your “evidence”. I do not hold ill will toward you. In fact, I can honestly say that when I think of EVERYONE on this site I am filled with love. This is from the Holy Spirit, because I am not capable of this in my flesh. My hope is that we can all come together, and stop seeing ourselves as “non-CCers” and Calvery Chapel’ers. Honestly, I knew there were people who weren’t into Calvary Chapel, but I had no idea how bad it was. We are all One in Christ. Or, we should be.

  68. Candance McGee says:

    Cherri;
    Thank you for your comment. I don’t know if you had a chance to read the entire article that was attached to the post, because it was VERY long. I believe it was deliberately drawn out to discourage people from actually reading the whole thing, because, the result of that long, drawn out article was, there WAS NO EVIDENCE.
    The reason no charges have been filed is because the alleged victim went back to the police station, and asked if her report could “be destroyed”. She explained that she was going to Europe (I think it was Europe) on a missionary trip, had forgiven Pastor Coy, and wanted to put the “whole thing behind” her.
    And, since there was zero evidence (no photos, no stained clothing, no witnesses, and no additional victims), there is, literally, no case.
    As a cop, I can tell you this is not extremely common, but it’s also not unheard of. Especially in a case like Coy’s.
    He was very well known, was already in the news for his adultry and gambling/drug use, and it’s entirely possible she had a schoolgirl crush on him for a long time. It wouldn’t be the first time a young girl fantasized about an older man “raping” her. There are several reasons for making the false report, but the most common is to get attention.
    I rarely assume a female is making a false claim of sexual assault. There have to be special circumstances. This case could still pan out, but only if other victims come forward AND they have solid, corroborating evidence. Pedophiles are not one-and-done criminals. They usually start slow, then progress on to more horrible acts, and their victims stack up over time. There is never just one victim. So, any sex crimes detective would be very wary of filing any kind of charges against anyone in a case like this. There is no case. No DA would charges.

  69. Candance McGee says:

    Cherri;
    Thank you for your comment. I don’t know if you had a chance to read the entire article that was attached to the post, because it was VERY long. I believe it was deliberately drawn out to discourage people from actually reading the whole thing, because, the result of that long, drawn out article was, there WAS NO EVIDENCE.
    The reason no charges have been filed is because the alleged victim went back to the police station, and asked if her report could “be destroyed”. She explained that she was going to Europe (I think it was Europe) on a missionary trip, had forgiven Pastor Coy, and wanted to put the “whole thing behind” her.
    And, since there was zero evidence (no photos, no stained clothing, no witnesses, and no additional victims), there is, literally, no case.
    As a cop, I can tell you this is not extremely common, but it’s also not unheard of. Especially in a case like Coy’s.
    He was very well known, was already in the news for his adultry and gambling/drug use, and it’s entirely possible she had a schoolgirl crush on him for a long time. It wouldn’t be the first time a young girl fantasized about an older man “raping” her. There are several reasons for making the false report, but the most common is to get attention.
    I rarely assume a female is making a false claim of sexual assault. There have to be special circumstances. This case could still pan out, but only if other victims come forward AND they have solid, corroborating evidence. Pedophiles are not one-and-done criminals. They usually start slow, then progress on to more horrible acts, and their victims stack up over time. There is never just one victim. So, any sex crimes detective would be very wary of filing any kind of charges against anyone in a case like this. There is no case. No DA would file charges.

  70. Steve says:

    Candace wrote “But they have been, for whatever reason, chosen by God to lead their respective churches, and those churches have been blessed greatly.”

    I guess Coy has been unchoosen now? Actually I am more inclined to believe it’s more like Acts 20:30 in a situation of drawing disciples after themselves instead of God. I think all the Moses model pastors should probably examine themselves to see if that is their case as well.

  71. Jessica says:

    I am glad Cadence is no longer a cop. Bc “sizing” people up is not the job of an officer and actually is discrimination. My understanding of sexual assault and the statue of limitation in Florida hs no provision for the need for evidence to make a police investigation. The police failed to immediately open a case, interview Coy and send both victim and Coys statements to the state attorney. The police are to take the report, go to the accused rapist for a statement and give it to the state attorney. The police never did that for a year. After a year the victim went to police and stated she did not want to press charges. I do not believe Cadence ws a cop maybe a crossing guard at CCftl. And plz do yr own research on the statue of limitation and protocol for rape. And in a day and age where police brutality is at a high, the job of an offucer is to follow the law and follow up on potential rapists and give tge info to the state attorney. The rest of the comments I have No Comment, God doesnt chose a the Bob Coy’s and 30 other pastors and priest recenty in the news who have raped or molested. If so God also picked Bill Cosby to make a family tv series while drug raping women. Lol
    Not my God .

  72. Michael says:

    I now suspect that Candace is a plant…someone sent to disparage this story.
    My guess is that her moniker is false as well.
    If Coy tries a comeback this report will come out…and Coy’s supporters and my critics will deal with the shame.

  73. Xenia says:

    I think I have reached “rape” overload. I can’t take any more accusations, claims, rebuttals, excuses, defenses and reports. I have come to the conclusion that half of the women in the world have been abused by men and the other half has some vested interest in defending the abusers. I have been awash in so many media claims and accusations that I can no longer determine truth from falsehood. I get the stories all mixed up. It’s all too much and why on earth am I finding myself in the situation, where I put myself- no one to blame but myself- where I am trying to ascertain what happened in the dark- or didn’t happen in the dark- decades ago by people I don’t know and never will know. I know my own story, and my family cares about my well-being. I will listen to stories my own friends and family tell me about their experiences and I will attempt to discern truth from falsehood, if I am called upon to do so. I am done being a vicarious lookie-loo who feels obligated to make judgments about the sexual exploits of people who I don’t know and who live 1000’s of miles away. It is sordid and not worthy of contemplation as it drives out all pure thoughts. That includes stories about pastor Chuck, Coy, Kavanaugh and maybe even the Trumpster himself.

  74. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    I understand.
    I also understand that in my opinion there are some dangerous people walking around and I have an obligation to stop them if I can.

  75. Steve says:

    Xenia,
    I wouldn’t put Coy and Kavanaugh in same category. Coy as a Moses model pastor was apparently working directly for God during his affairs, etc. He is a fraud or deeply flawed that has no business ever returning to pulpit.

    Also, you need to understand what is happening with Kavanaugh now. The “Dems” are petrified that a supreme Court judge would get confirmed and overturn “roe vs. Wade”. This is driving this complete utter insanity on the left. They will do anything to destroy Kavanaugh because they feel threatened that a woman’s right to abortion in jeopardy. I know you were inclined to believe Ford with her allegations but are you now inclined to believe Julie Swetnick with her even more serious smut allegations with rape trains? I’m curious if you think that the Senate should stop everything and delay everything another week or two to hear her testimony?

  76. Xenia says:

    Steve, by golly, you entirely missed the point of my post.

    I say I am done with sordid sexual stories and you give me another one.

  77. Em says:

    What i am finding interesting this morning is that all the angst being generated today is in the area of sexual conduct – that includes abortion
    How we handle that aspect of our nature IS telling about our self control and self esteem, but is it in the list of things God hates? Maybe it does generate behavior that God hates…. Very interesting ponders here on PhxP again
    Thanks to all…
    Agreeing that Candace doesn’t quite ring true…. but dunno?

  78. Steve says:

    Xenia,

    Unless you live in a cave these stories everywhere now. The allegations I’ve heard about Kavanaugh are the worst I’ve ever heard. What bothers me and you are quite different. What bothers you is the possibility that the allegations maybe true. What bothers me is that possible extremely evil people are making this stuff up to completely destroy a man and getting gulluble folks to believe it and at the same time forever ruining our criminal justice system. That is kind of what I expect from this point from the radical left.

  79. Xenia says:

    That is kind of what I expect from this point from the radical left.<<<

    Steve, I don't think you believe I am part of the radical left. At least, I hope not. I am an old-timey conservative who doesn't think fifteen year old girls should go to parties and get drunk and that college girls shouldn't participate in drinking games with frat boys. For most of the history of the human race, young women were protected by their fathers and were not permitted this kind of freedom. Today's free-love philosophy has been a disaster for girls and women and I don't think it's done men much good, either.

    I do not hope that the accusations are true because I would rather these assaults never happened. Shoot, I wish my assault never happened! But I also don't want these women to be guilty of the sin of lying. So there's no winning for the women in these cases: they are either victims or liars and neither is good. And who am I to decide these things 3 decades and 3000 miles distant? With the media on both sides in Crazyland? As for your 3rd case, I am not going to read about it. The whole thing has become a circus and I am tired of being drawn into it.

    I do not like Mr. Kavanaugh because his verified history (his yearbook and classmates) presents a privileged frat boy and I don't like privileged frat boys, even when they are grown men. Since I would very much like to see Roe vs Wade overturned, I would prefer that Mr. Kavanaugh, with as much dignity as he still possesses, voluntarily withdraw and someone else on Trump's list of pro-life judges take his place. Whatever is true or not true about him, if he really cares about the Supreme Court more than he cares about his own prestige, he will step aside.

    It has crossed my mind, more than once, that the accusers are "taking a bullet" for the abortion cause. Yes, I have thought of this, and it may be true. But again, I am more inclined to believe these particular women than that particular man. But it's too late, the well has been poisoned, and for the sake of the Supreme Court he should step aside. He does not have a right to be a Supreme Court justice, no one does.

    Now if a person with no back story is nominated next and the same thing happens all over again, even I will suspect a conspiracy.

  80. Steve says:

    Xenia,

    You definitely are NOT the radical left. However, I do put the democratic members in the judiciary committee in that category.

  81. Enneagram 07 says:

    Candance McGee it is possible that there were detrimental reasons that the victim did not want to pursue the charges, not because they were not true, but because of the hell she would have to pay because her identity would become public. This victim had nothing to gain and everything to lose by coming out with this charge because of the fact that this pervert is adulated blindly by so many. There were good reasons she did not pursue it and nothing to do with it being false. One day she may have the courage to speak up and know that no one will accuse her of this pervert’s actions. It happened. It is beyond sick what he did and the fact that he returned to FL shows his lack of morals and repentance. He should disappear. I pray God will not allow him to prosper or hurt the church and his family again.

  82. Enneagram 07 says:

    P.S. Candace remember it was not the victim who filed the report, it was her parent to whom she confessed what happened and who was her legal guardian and had the right to file the report. If the victim came to try to drop the charges, it was because she was a legal adult at the time and was able to make this decision for herself.

  83. Enneagram 07 says:

    One more thing… I work with victims of sexual abuse and when a charge is true they are very specific on what happened and what was done to them. If it is not true the accusations are vague and shift. This article was very specific on the content of the police report. No way the victim made this up. Please take the Bob Coy idol glasses off, he is a sociopath who has no shame and lacks remorse. Did you know that Ted Bundy, a sociopath, beat lie detectors and the MMPI? hmmm

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