The Roman Church Scandal

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16 Responses

  1. JM says:

    Michael–THANK YOU!!!! Been too busy to tell you that so many other posts have been appreciated, so want to do that here, too! God keep you!!!

  2. Xenia says:

    I do not think the RCC is the Whore of Babylon, nor do I believe the papacy is the Antichrist.

    Having said that, there is a serious problem with Catholic doctrine and practice that allows, in fact encourages, predatory clergy and that is the celibacy requirement. Before ordination, candidates for the priesthood are asked if they can give up sexual attraction towards women and many men say to themselves “sure- I was never attracted to women in the first place.” You end up with a priesthood that attracts homosexuals and pedophiles. It’s a brotherhood of perverts who of course are going to cover up for each other.

    Not to sound triumphalisic, but you don’t see this problem in the Orthodox Church where priests get married and have children. Homosexuals are not attracted to the EO priesthood. Sure there are predatory EO priests but I imagine the percentage is the same as any other denomination that has married clergy. And sure there are cover ups- again, at the same rate as other non-celibate groups.

    I can never look at an RC priest without thinking “Is this guy a pervert?” I never feel that way when I see an EO priest or a Baptist minister. I am sure examples to the contrary abound but the overwhelming problem is with the Roman Catholic Church and the problem is the celibacy requirement which is unnatural. I am not saying the priesthood turns the men into perverts; I am saying perverts, maybe latent ones, are attracted to the RCC priesthood.

    Monasticism is a whole different kettle of fish.

  3. Noelle says:

    Oh, my heart.

  4. Em says:

    It is good to examine this ugly corrosion of mind and office …. Lots of thots going thru my mind that i hope others will voice here better than i and from a variety of perspectives…

    One thing i will note is that my husband’s father’s family were all Pennsylvania Roman Catholic – salt of the earth, honest, God fearing, people loving

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    There are so many varied threads that have created this horror. Clerical celibacy is one. A hierarchical system with little mutual accountability is another (diocesan bishops are truly “princes” in their own realm). There was the attraction of gay men to a supposed celibate profession in which not having a wife is considered normative. Also, there is a deep seated culture among the laity of “Father says” which is inculcated from an early age. While there are Parish Councils, the priest is only truly accountable to one person, his bishop. Put all of this together with the idea that “treatment” can remedy this sickness (current thought in the last century) when, in fact, recidivism is the norm in such cases, and you have the makings of a nightmare.

    Many of these issues may also be found in other churches as well, but perhaps not the exact same toxic mix.

  6. Em says:

    Xenia voiced one of the saddest aspects of this… There are wonderful, devoted priests who have served honestly and now they bear this burden…. It makes one wonder just what directives have been issued from their leadership….
    I’m not an insider here, but there was always a sense that the R.C.s were tolerant of sexual sins – dunno – today we’d have to confess there are similarly riddled protestant groups ….
    Like everything man can organize and profit from, it attracts evil? Thinking….

  7. Xenia says:

    The ironic thing with the RC’s is that they are so stringent on the topic of divorced / remarried people being estranged from the church. I don’t know where they are on this nowadays but I remember divorced people pretty much denied Communion unless they got a special annulment which seemed pretty lame to me… did the children of the now annulled marriage suddenly become bastards? So these creepy (many of them) men hold people to these stringent rules while who-knows-what abominations are taking place in their own lives.

    Meanwhile, the Pope’s daily Tweet is just another platitude.

  8. Xenia says:

    I think in the case of the RCC it is more than protecting the institution. They are terrified of ratting on each other for fear their own sins will be exposed. I think it is mostly about self-protection, not about preserving the Roman Catholic Church. They are all black-mailing each other, in effect.

  9. bob1 says:

    A hierarchical system with little mutual accountability is another (diocesan bishops are truly “princes” in their own realm

    I tend to think this is the most serious problem with the RCs. Not the only one,
    though.

    I don’t care what the church is — RCC, Orthodox, Protestant, whatever — if
    you don’t have accountability at all levels of church, you’re asking for trouble.
    Anytime there’s a “power vacuum.”

    And let’s not kid ourselves. This is also a problem with other parts of Christ’s
    Church.

  10. Xenia says:

    Ugh. I am working on a little research project and my prof suggested I read Vatican II for some insight on a certain matter and I am finding that I am having a serious aversion to reading the document today.

    How much of it was written by men with perverted minds and dead souls.

    You know, a pastor who has an affair with his secretary, a one-time fall, is not a pervert or a sick man in my view. He’s a sinner and he has disqualified himself from the ministry but he’s not mentally ill and he can recover and be used by God for many good and wholesome things. I don’t feel the same way about pedophile/ homosexual priests. They are sick men and I haven’t got any confidence in anything they have written and that goes for Vat2 which I am having a hard time forcing myself to read this afternoon.

    Ha! That’s why I’m complaining here about the RC’s instead of doing my work, I guess.

  11. Eric says:

    With such a large number of church leaders guilty of child abuse, I wonder how they thought about their actions within the context of Christian life. Aside from some short statements I’ve read in Royal Commission reports, I haven’t seen any – has anyone else seen anything like this?

  12. Linnea says:

    It’s hypocrisy…plain and simple. It’s opportunism disguised as spirituality…the worst kind of opportunism. It’s evident, also, by those who suck up in corporations..by those who put up with crap in other venues. The human nature is to try to accommodate sin. God says no, I have made a provision for your sin. It’s up to you to recognize and receive it.

    Michael, you are right…Jesus wept, but he also turned over tables in the temple.

  13. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    An offering by a Lutheran on how we Lutherans should reverse the ordination of an abuser – I would imagine it would be the same for any infraction worthy of a defrocking.

    I like it 2nd best – a bullet in the head still ranks as my #1

    https://www.gottesdienst.org/gottesblog/2018/8/16/the-roman-rite-of-degradation

  14. UnCCed says:

    Kinda surprised no one ever noticed (or hasn’t talked about) how the RC implemented the Moses Model (or their version – don’t touch Peter’s Anointed), and the 1.5k-ish years of problems related to it.
    Never been RC, but I would think if I suffered at their hands (or knew those that did), I’d have a hard time being a “sheep” “under” a (figurative) descendant of Moses.
    In other words, RC believe their Chuck Smith is directly link to Peter.
    We (current/former CCers) believe in a figurative link from Chuck back to Moses.
    I know there’s lots of differences, but there exists in both “hellish” (Michael’s correct term) ordeals, and most importantly (IMHO) as Michael mentioned, “Jesus wept.”

    Oh, by the way, I’ve read some speeches from Pope Frank and wished SOME Protestant “leaders” would say the same things, I really like him.

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