The Weekend Word

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  1. Xenia says:

    Yes! Today is Pentecost! Baptisms!

  2. Xenia says:

    … and I think it is very very cool that Michael and Holly are being drawn to Anglicanism.

  3. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    I’ve been studying under an Anglican for years…and the theology of the church as expressed in the BCP reflects my own better than any other group.

    Unfortunately, there are no conservative Anglican churches in my area…

  4. Glenn says:

    Michael,

    Which edition or version of the Book of Common Prayer are you using and
    recommend?

  5. Michael says:

    Glenn,

    You know me…the 1552 version is the only acceptable one. ๐Ÿ™‚

  6. A E A says:

    We started 1Timothy 6, our attitudes and service to bosses, non Christian and Christian.
    Some people will argue against sound teaching even the words of Jesus for their own logic. They are proud knowing nothing, they like to argue and cause strife.
    They think that godliness is a means of gain.
    (Hmmmm seems I read an example of such in a blog post that said something similar, well it’ll come to me)

    This can cover motivations for starting “ministries” as well as the positive confession heresy.

    However godliness with contentment is great gain.
    We went as far as we bring nothing into this world and take nothing out.

    Jesus made a way for us to be content come to Him, He is your treasure, your security, your exceedingly great reward.

    Gotta go or I’ll be late for the next service.
    Blessings

  7. Jim Jacobson says:

    Kelley Taylor delivered an amazing lesson on 2 Cor. 1:1-11 “…who comforts us in all our troubles so that we may be able to comfort those experiencing any trouble with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.”
    I would recommend this to anyone who has experienced deep loss.
    http://www.cclakestevens.org/downloads/2_corinthians_1_1_11.mp3

  8. Lutheran says:

    โ€ฆ and I think it is very very cool that Michael and Holly are being drawn to Anglicanism.

    Me, too.

  9. Tim says:

    We continued our journey through 1 John, looking at the wonderful assurances/marks of a Christian in Ch 2:12-17, as well as the exhortation not to get distracted by the lusts & temptations of the world. http://goo.gl/IRwm

    In Christ:
    A. You have forgiveness of sins
    B. You have relationship with God
    C. You have victory over the devil
    D. You have adoption by God the Father
    E. You have empowerment for the battle through the word of God

    What could the world possibly offer in comparison?

  10. centorian says:

    Tim,
    nothing. great outline!

  11. BrianD says:

    Pac-Man on Google is permanent

    http://www.google.com/pacman/

  12. Xenia says:

    Hi Holly, I have never heard N.T.Wright’s explanation before and I need to think about it before I answer. It sounds good but I don’t want to speak too quickly. I would say this, that generally speaking, the EO is a little fuzzy as to what exactly happens to a believer upon his or her death. The Bible doesn’t really say, other than St. Paul’s “absent from the body, present with the Lord.” So… I think we can all say that the believer will be “with the Lord” but what form we are in remains unexplained. We don’t get our resurrection bodies until the Resurrection, which is future. You ask hard questions.

    As to the intercession of the Saints, we do ask them to pray for us, just as you might ask me to pray for you. Even though it’s common usage to say we “pray to the Saints” it’s more correct to say we ask them to pray for us. We don’t regard the Saints as gods by any means (despite some florid language that might cause people to wonder). We regard them more as older brothers and sisters in the faith.

    Now is the time for Pastor Dave to bring up Tollhouses. ๐Ÿ™‚

  13. I am in the gospel of John chapter 14. I gave my second message in a mini series on the Holy Spirit. Last weeks theme: To whom was the HS given. Today asked the question “who is the HS?”. Next week I will talk about the HS and the Spirit of truth. Finally, I will attempt to harmonize the three often misunderstood passages on the HS; 1 Cor.12, Rom. 12 and Eph. 4. It’s been a fun, informative and necessary series.

    So much confusion about the HS

  14. jlo says:

    Steve, my husbandโ€™s hobby horse is the HS and who He is.

  15. Captain Kevin says:

    Preached this morning on Jesus’ statement, “It is Finished.” Complete, perfect, fulfilled, paid in full. Hallelujah! Thank You, Jesus!

  16. Nonnie says:

    I have been on the road and didn’t attend a church service. Instead, 2 of my daughters and 4 of my grandchildren drove 75 miles to see my parents (their grandparents/great grandparents) one last time before we fly/drive off to our respective homes. It was such a special time…. 4 generations together.

    On the way there my 7 year old grandson told me he had learned the Lord’s Prayer.
    “Say it for me, Eli.” He recited it word perfect.
    What joy to hear my children’s children speaking forth the word of the Lord!
    A few minutes later we were all rejoicing over eggs and pancakes and thanking God for His goodness toward our family.

    I was reminded of Psalm 145:4 “One generation shall praise Your works to another, And shall declare Your mighty acts.”

    I fly back to England tomorrow evening. Anxious to get back to my sweet hubby.

  17. Captain Kevin says:

    Nonnie,
    Sounds like you attended a very special church service after all!

  18. Tim says:

    Nonnie –
    That’s wonderful. How sweet it is to hear our children (or grandchildren, as the case may be) understand & recite the word of God!

  19. Em says:

    with no intent to be disrespectful… from where i sit (stand?) those poor saints with a capital “S” got that status here by an awful lot of suffering for the Faith… and now they’re resting and you want them to do your work for you? A little extra “in” with the Lord? dunno, that’s all, just don’t know…
    but why wouldn’t you be jealous for your own time to be before the Lord by the grace and work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness with your spirit? “Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners?” Is that because i don’t think i can get close to Him, myself?
    i have a mental picture of some poor Saint being bombarded with a thousand requests for intercession… well, it does say that we shall be like Him… not sure that’s what is meant, tho…
    rhetorical questions from a rude and crude Protestant and i will ponder today ๐Ÿ™‚

  20. With not disrespect intended; does a saint even hear prayer requests from those of earth? Secondly, Maybe you could clarify for me; why would some one ask a Saint to pray for them when we can go directly to God thru the HS who Romans 8 says prays the perfect will of God, and when they can go directly to Christ who makes intercession for us?

    Neither do I see anywhere in the NT instruction, directives, or an example of anyone praying to a Saint.

    It seems that by the grace of God I can come boldly into the presence of God and I don’t need a saint to any one to take my case to God. Jesus and the HS are there.

    On earth we call for others to pray for us but that is in taking our “case” to God . We can come to his presence directly.

    Going to a saint instead of the two means just does sound right in theory either a Catholics pray to Mary who will ask the Son, who will ask the Father–which (respectfully) sounds like what happens in a dysfunctional family. The child wants something but asks mom who has more weight, to ask the dad for him.

    Asking the Saints to ask God for what we want or what ever almost sounds like God as “The God Father”. One of the “boys” has to do the asking.

    I dunno…I don’t see it in the bible, and it doesn’t make sense to me practically that one should have to pray to a saint when grace allows us access to God and the HS and Jesus are there to pray for us…my thoughts only and I mean no disrespect to anyone especially the Catholics

  21. “Going to a Saint instead of the means provided just doesn’t sound right to me in theory either. A Catholic prays to Mary….” Sorry

  22. Xenia says:

    A few points (not trying to convince anyone, just explaining)

    1. I think the RC idea of the treasury of merits of the Saints goes like this: The Saints did a surplus of good works in their lives which have been stored up and can be tapped. In some ways, RC-ism seems like a giant accounting system with every prayer, indulgence, monetary contribution, fast, rosary recitation, etc. carefully weighed against one’s sins. This bean-counting of theirs represents one of the major differences between the RC and the EO Churches. The EO says “praying is good for your soul.” The RC says “say this prayer X number of times and it will cancel X number of days in Purgatory.” The RC has taken all the precious, soul-healing disciplines of the Church and quantified them. (IMO, *this* is what true legalism is, not trying to live a holy and God-pleasing life, as some say.)

    2. I think many Protestants were and are repelled by the excesses of what can only be called saint-worship and washed their hands of the whole thing. There’s an easily-crossed line between veneration and worship. Also, because of the Reformation doctrine of Sola Scriptura, since you don’t find any mention of asking Saints for their prayers in the Bible, the practice was tossed out.

    3. I don’t know when the RCs cross themselves but the EO cross themselves during the Liturgy when the Holy Trinity is mentioned, at a bare minimum, and many, many other times during the service. In daily life, we cross ourselves all the time. Pretty much whenever an Evangelical would say “Praise the Lord!” we would instead cross ourselves and say “Lord, have mercy.” It is a short prayer and a reminder that we are God’s. I don’t know when the practice began but you can read about it in very early Christian literature. You might be interested in knowing that the RC and the EO cross themselves in opposite directions. We go from right to left; they go from left to right. Sometimes we make a slight bow when we cross ourselves. Sometimes we prostrate ourselves on the ground with forehead touching the carpet. Genuflecting in a RC practice, though.

  23. Linnea says:

    Matthew 27:51

    And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

    The significance of this is that God Himself, through the substitutionary death of Jesus, tore the veil which divided the sanctuary and kept out those not appointed by God and not prepared for God.

    By His death, Jesus appointed and prepared us who believe in Him to oneness with Him and the Father. There is no detour.

    To rely on anything else is nothing short of asking Him to climb on the cross again.

  24. Xenia says:

    We can all pray directly to God and we all do. We also ask our friends to pray with us, as the weekly prayer thread here on the PP demonstrates. If we were being consistent, we would not ask each other to pray for us since we can just pray directly to God.

    Anyway, that’s all I’m going to say about this.

  25. X
    But I’ll ask again, how do we even know the saints in heaven hear the prayers of those on earth?

  26. Tim says:

    M*B –
    Xenia’s & Steve’s discussion aside, can you show me where in the Bible it instructs us to pray for the dead? It seems the New Testament makes it clear that it is appointed to man once to die, and then the judgment (Heb 9:27). Praying for someone after they’ve died in hopes that they’ll receive eternal life seems to be a bit “too little too late.”

    I’d be glad to read any Scriptural justification for the practice.

  27. Xenia says:

    Steve, yes, we do know they hear our prayer requests because of the great number of miracles that have occurred thanks to their prayers.

    This is a subject that seems fabulous to Protestants. From personal experience I don’t think further explanations will be helpful.

  28. Xenia says:

    (By “fabulous” I mean “It sounds like fables.”)

  29. Lutheran says:

    Also, at which points during the Mass/service is one supposed to cross oneself, and what is the meaning behind this action?

    M*B,

    In the Lutheran service, the sign of the cross is made when the pastor makes it — depending on the liturgy (we have five). It’s a remembrance of our Baptism, that we’ve been sealed with the cross of Christ forever.

  30. Lutheran says:

    due to his aborrence for all things Catholic.

    Sadly, post-Luther, many Protestants have done a great job of channeling their inner anti-Catholic, and in the process have thrown out the proverbial baby with the bath water. Back in Luther’s day, the Anabaptists would run through the Catholic and even Lutheran churches and destroy anything remotely having to do with Catholicism — crucifixes, art, etc.

    Tim,

    Who on here is is advocating praying for the dead? Answer: no one. Why would you ask this question?

  31. Em says:

    one thing i am pretty convinced of by this point in life is that there is an active, unseen spirit world around us … it is my nature to give it a wide berth as i’m not competent on any level to wade into and discover more of its mysteries – i would much rather be surprised by miracles than to expect them – to pester the Lord with incessant prayer is a good thing (IMO), but looking for a work-around to gain ground in an unknown and, to me, scary realm takes me where i won’t willingly go – i have enough problems staying level headed and responsible on this journey
    so, perhaps the end of it is, not fable, but foreign? A place i don’t want to or can’t live…

  32. Em says:

    that said, making the sign of the cross – right to left or left to right – is a lovely gesture as is being flat on the floor with your face in the carpet or the dirt – it signifies our helpless condition without Him quite well ๐Ÿ˜€

  33. WEl X my friend, I guess we are miles apart theologically. I as a Protestant have spent my life going down one path of thought and you another on several issues. My theological outlook and hermeneutic has been shaped by my years of instruction as a protestant and yours as an EO. Though we are bothers and sisters, we will just have to agree that we will disagree of some issues. You’ve presented several. Interesting discussion but from different view point. I have no intent of trying to convince you my way and I know you are not trying to convince me your way is the correct way.

    But I appreciate hearing how the EO views things. It broadens my world a bit and forces me to have to think thru some stuff!

  34. Babylon's Dread says:

    Taught: The Family at 46 St. James Place … James 4:1-10 Focus vs6

    Grace to the Humble…
    Simple 6 part application in vs 7-10…
    How this passage when applied to life will yield a harvest of a healthy thriving home.

  35. BD
    Respectfully, are you saying that in doing what you preached from James that it assures you of a healthy thriving home?…that the “formula” always works? I think I know you better than that…I ask that because my children who are both grown are wonderful kids and would say they had two wonderful parents to grow up under. We tried, and I think they would agree that my wife and I were loving, made sacrifices and were a pretty good model of Christ to them. So I kind of followed the formula. But now in their 30’s they want nothing to do with God or the church. I am still proud of them and they like coming to see us and we enjoy a great relationship but concerning God…they are indifferent.

    I have heard sermon after sermon where the pastor says “just do this” and you will be guaranteed “this” in return. Then I look at guys like Samuel in the bible–a great leader of Israel but his kids didn’t turn out well. But the I see to in the Kings some pretty crummy parents who turned out some pretty great kids.

    Just trying to figure out where you are coming from (and possibly air out some frustrations I may have:-) )…hope that’s OK

  36. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I don’t know about praying to the saints or any version of that, but I do know that we (at least Lutherans) do interact with them (all who have departed ‘in Christ’) at the communion table where we are gather with ALL the saints of the Church, both the Church Triumphant and the Church Militant.

  37. Xenia says:

    Just came back from the dentist! All’s well for the next six months, I hope.

    To comment on a few things:

    1. Steve, that sure was a gracious response, which I appreciate very much. By the way, for the first fifty years of my life I was a Protestant, first a Baptist and then 20 years at Calvary Chapel. I never in a million years dreamed I would have a change of heart in this area.

    2. Regarding “Do this and your kids are guaranteed to grow up to be on-fire Christians,” I had a negative experience with this philosophy from my home-schooling days. Back then when home schooling was still a novelty we used to go to conventions where the speakers would make outrageous claims that if you home schooled your children properly (that is, by means of the curriculum they have authored and are selling in the foyer) you are guaranteed to produce outstanding Christian adults who will be the next generation’s scientists and politicians and will take over the country for the glory of God. (Strong Reconstructionist wind blowing through the HS world in those days.) This was 25 years ago and I have lived to see all those kids grow to adulthood and despite their parents’ best intentions they seem to be atheists, agnostics and believers in the same proportion as the public school population. So it didn’t work. Like Steve, my husband and I raised our kids to the loving best of our abilities. Our kids adore us both but only two out of the five are practicing Christians. Two claim they are believers but don’t show any evidence of it and one has disavowed Christianity altogether. Oddly enough, she is the one who shows the most love and compassion towards other people.

    3. Em, I think you hit on something important when you spoke of the unseen world of spirits. What I have seen in my seven years among the EO is that the barrier between the heavenly realm and earth is very very thin and porous. I used to imagine a brick wall between us and heaven with only prayer to God as being able to punch through but now I see the wall as a flimsy membrane with all kinds of comings and goings back and forth.

    I think most people would agree that departed believers are alive and not dead, unless you believe in some form of soul-sleep. I think most people would agree with MLD that they are still a part of the Church. I think the only question we would not agree on is this: Do they take prayer requests?

  38. Tim says:

    Lutheran –
    Because unless I misread Madison-Bella, that’s exactly what she was advocating when she wrote this above:

    “We should daily offer prayers for ALL the departed. It is a grievous error to fail to pray daily for the departed.”

    Did I misunderstand?

  39. Sarah says:

    Tim…I took it the same way, especially with the example of your mom passing away and there being maybe some question of her salvation, you continue to pray that she would obtain eternal life before the Resurrection of the Dead. That it is your duty to pray for her salvation after her death.

  40. Michael says:

    and now you know why I stick to the BCP…there is no scriptural warrant whatsoever to pray for the dead.
    To posit that Onesiphorus was deceased is an argument from silence concocted from the imagination.

    The intercessory argument is interesting, not compelling…I need to send these guys some Packer. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  41. Tim says:

    Onesiphorus seems like a rather weak example to use in support. There are varying theories as to whether or not he was dead or alive at the time of Paul’s writing. Paul himself simply doesn’t say.

    But thank you – it’s good to know I didn’t misunderstand you. I (obviously) do not agree, but thank you for the response.

  42. Michael says:

    Using that method of exegesis I could concoct innumerable fables .

    That’s a textbook case of imposing a doctrine on Scripture…there is absolutely no support in that text or any other for that doctrine.

  43. Michael says:

    Holly,

    The harm in proposing an unbiblical doctrine of any sort is that once you swallow one, a multitude follow.

    If the prayers of the church militant could effect the salvation of the unregenerated dead, then the Scriptures would clearly command us to be vigilant to pray such prayers.

    They do not.

    We need to deal with spiritual realities…the reality of judgment after death, the reality that one must make a choice about their eternal destiny in this life… is far too important to cast aside for the sake of an emotional balm.

    The truth the Scriptures teach is that we must evangelize the lost now…and the church lives in expectation of being in the presence of Christ immediately after leaving this vale of tears.

    I’ll not need your prayers when I’m gone…He will do as He promised.

    I could use them now… ๐Ÿ˜‰

  44. centorian says:

    longest weekend word thread in quite a while.
    I wonder how many pastors today are listening to David Allan Coe’s song “Take This Job and Shove It” while they are nursing a bourbon and water……. lol!!! just a thought…

  45. Michael says:

    Not trying to cut….just illuminate.

  46. Michael says:

    Centy,

    I wonder that every Monday…

  47. Xenia says:

    Even all my years as a Protestant, upon hearing of the death of someone- anyone- I would find myself praying for their soul. “Lord have mercy on the soul of so-and-so.” And then I would remember that we didn’t believe in that and would quickly change my prayer to “Lord, be with the family of so-and-so.” Yet there was that first impulse to ask God to have mercy on the soul of the recently departed. It seemed right, somehow. But I do understand everyone’s objections.

  48. Lutheran says:

    ‘In Lutheranism, does your pastor make the sign of the cross over the parish and invoke Godโ€™s blessings each week over the church?’

    M*B,

    Yes. At the invocation and the benediction, he invokes the name of the Trinity and makes the sign of the cross.

  49. Lutheran says:

    Isn’;t there a difference between praying for the saints and praying to the saints? Wasn’t the topic originally about the latter?

  50. dewd4jesus says:

    “But again, for those who *do* practice such (and I can think of many in the parish who *do* pray to saints) โ€” what harm does it do to ask a saint to pray for you?”

    It is to place them in a position that is simply not theirs. We have but One High Priest who makes intercession on our behalf.

    “I wonder how many pastors today are listening to David Allan Coeโ€™s song โ€œTake This Job and Shove Itโ€ while they are nursing a bourbon and waterโ€ฆโ€ฆ”

    LOL! While the sentiment of the song may not exactly fit, I personally believe this may be exactly what Paul was telling Timothy in his statement to “take a little wine for his stomach and infirmities.” My interpretation – ” I know I just laid a big load on you, but just chill and have a little wine for the knot (feeling of unease, inhibition) you now have in your stomach.” The word infirmities in the Greek can be either that of body or mind. Literally feebleness or frailty of the body or mind. Paul places this in the midst of telling him how to deal with accusations against elders, to rebuke those living in sin in the midst of the Body, to do so without prejudice or partiality, and to keep himself pure. And that’s just the immediately preceding statements. There are 5 chapters before and one more to follow that express many more issues Paul is instructing in and calling on him to deal with.

    To me the statement fits no other way. Why in the midst of instruction on how to deal with problematic issues with others does Paul throw this statement in? It’s seemingly out of place. But I can just imagine as Timothy is reading all of this that he is perhaps very much in the mindset of, “Paul you’re nuts! I can’t do all this. Get someone else to do it.” And Paul, understands that that’s exactly what Timothy’s mindset would be at this point in reading his letter. And that it would be a constant cause of frustration, anxiety and conflict in Timothy’s mind.

    Don’t know. Just my take. Always open to the Lord changing my mind.

  51. Xenia says:

    Dewd, do you not believe in intercessory prayer? If I ask you to pray for me, am I putting you in a position that is not yours?

  52. Xenia says:

    Lord, have mercy on Diego.

  53. Tim says:

    M*Bella –
    I’m sorry to hear about your dog…praying now.

  54. Bob says:

    Dead people can’t intercede for the living, no scriptural evidence and as far as I know no Jewish tradition either.

    But, the living honoring the dead in burial and memory is very important.

  55. jlo says:

    M*B praying for diego. My big dog had a splinter in his eye and recovered fine after oral and topical antibiotics. My dixie girl after recovering from dental surgery lost sight in one eye and has adjusted fine, the first couple of weeks she was rather off balance and would drift into things, but today you wouldn’t even know she only has sight in one eye.

  56. dewd4jesus says:

    Xenia-
    Absolutely! I in fact do for all who participate here often if not regularly. However, for those who have passed from the dimensions of time and space into eternity already, there is no point. I have hope that the grace and mercy of God through Jesus is big enough and that they were given the same opportunity to call on His name. But when they died in this life, their decision was made. They are either seated with Christ in the Throne Room of God, or burning in eternal damnation. As a believer in Christ, your eternal state is that you ARE seated with Christ NOW. Eternity is NOW. God’s word says we were “made alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made to sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, ” Ephesians 2:5-6 And I believe we can all count on the fact, if we’re in Christ, as He reassured the thief on the cross, that on the day we die the physical death of this life, that His words will ring true for us as well. “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.” No one interceding for us to get us in. We will either have decided to believe in and accept His work for us, or have rejected it. No do overs, reincarnation, perdition or any other such fables. Time and space end for us as an individual and we are brought before the Throne to be judged. Either standing on the righteousness of Christ, or condemned by it. No ifs, no ands, no buts. See also Luke 16:19-31 The rich mans choice was made. His request that Lazarus be sent back to testify to his family that were still alive was also rejected on the grounds that they already have all they need to make their choice. Praying for them can do nothing. Praying to them is not only unnecessary, but is a rejection of Christ Himself as the only One who did/does the work of salvation. It is to say to Him, You are not enough. Forgivable. But highly misguided and misleading at the very least.

  57. dewd4jesus says:

    Bob-
    “But, the living honoring the dead in burial and memory is very important.”

    Absolutely!

  58. dewd4jesus says:

    Praying for wisdom for the vet and healing for Diego.

    We had to put one of our girls out of her misery last month. She had been diabetic for 6 years and blind for sometime. It always amazed me how she got around so well despite not being able to see. In the end something actually reversed her condition to extreme hypoglycemia. Possibly an insulomata (? spelling), a tumor which causes insulin to be dumped into the system. We couldn’t keep up with her blood sugar even feeding her straight glucose. So in the end the best was to relieve her of her suffering. But what a blessing she was while we had her. It is always hard to see them in pain or suffering in anyway.

  59. dewd4jesus says:

    Outta here for awhile. Gotta go pick up a new for us dishwasher and range/oven the Lord is blessing us with through a great brother in the Lord.

    Check in later.

  60. Xenia says:

    Well, there’s two different topics in this thread that keep getting confused. There’s

    1. Asking a Saint to pray for us.

    2. Asking God to have mercy on someone who has died.

    Two separate things.

  61. Xenia says:

    Dogs don’t last long enough.

  62. Lutheran says:

    Dewd,

    I’m sorry about your dog.

    ‘Dogs donโ€™t last long enough.’

    So true.

    But then, there’s cats…

    ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

  63. Bob says:

    dewd:

    You nailed the scripture reference. Good parable by Jesus to catch the point about this life and the next.

    Read, listen, pray, praise, get to know God and let the saints rest in their comfort, they deserve it!

    PS. It’s scriptural, God gave us dogs as companions, but the also return to their v….. while cats just cough up a present for us.

  64. Xenia says:

    Well, a few weeks ago we talked about Lazarus in connection with the Thief on the Cross. They are both Old Covenant figures and heaven was not where they went- they were in Paradise at that time.

  65. dewd4jesus says:

    Bob-
    “…. while cats just cough up a present for us.”

    LOL! Or catch them and leave them on the porch for us. And sometimes, just the “best” parts.

  66. Babylon's Dread says:

    Mr Hopkins…. I actually agree with your critique of GUARANTEE sermons… that is the methodology of Charles Stanley… and it didn’t work out so good for him… NO if you listen to my message you will not hear that spirit. I advocate the lessons there and recognize that it does not always ‘work’

    Results Vary Dread

  67. Xenia says:

    Lord, have mercy on Barney.

  68. Buster says:

    If there were a longstanding history of Christians having offered prayers for the dead, would we be obligated to follow it?

  69. Xenia says:

    m*b, here’s two great prayers, written by St. Basil, which we can pray for animals:

    The earth is the Lord’s and the fulness thereof.
    O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us. We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to Thee in song has been a groan of travail. May we realize that they live not for us alone, but for themselves and for Thee and that they love the sweetness of life even as we, and serve Thee better in their place than we in ours.

    —-

    For those, O Lord, the humble beasts, that bear with us the burden and heat of day, and offer their guileless lives for the well-being of mankind; and for the wild creatures, whom Thou hast made wise, strong, and beautiful, we supplicate for them Thy great tenderness of heart, for Thou hast promised to save both man and beast, and great is Thy loving kindness, O Master, Saviour of the world.

  70. centorian says:

    praying with you mabell and am saddened with you as well.

  71. Sarah says:

    So sorry, Holly. We just had to put down our 12 1/2 year old shepherd a month ago. So tough. Praying that they might find some solution.

  72. jlo says:

    holly, praying for your pup.

  73. Buster says:

    I will pray for pets. I hope everything turns out all right, Holly.

  74. Em says:

    Lord protect Holly’s tender heart, ease her stress…

  75. Xenia says:

    ๐Ÿ™

  76. Buster says:

    I’m so sorry…

  77. BrianD says:

    ๐Ÿ™

  78. Steve says:

    praying with you mabell and am saddened with you as well.

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