The Weekend Word

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9 Responses

  1. Duane Arnold says:

    On the papal office:
    1. He claims to be “first among equals” and “the servant of the servants of God”
    2. He has no authority to enthrone or depose… that was dealt with in the 1920s
    3. He does not make the claim that acknowledgment of his authority is needed for salvation – reference the RC Catechism on this…
    4. RCs claim him to be a “sign of unity” not an enforcer of unity
    5. Of late, I fail to note the papal office seeking to “lead people away from Jesus”
    6. There are numerous Lutherans and Anglicans, not to mention Eastern Orthodox who ask for the prayers of Mary and others who have gone before us in the faith. Mary, in the Lutheran Confessions, holds a singular place of honor (Luther even writing poems of veneration…)
    7. The “papal powers” are limited to persuasion, just like us…

  2. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane, I do understand that some are more Pope / Papacy fanboys than me and Philip Melanchthon, who I was quoting from the Concordia.
    Lutheran for several years remained quite Roman in some of his theology as he worked it out. Lutherans do have a very high view of Mary with a strong proclamation of Mary as the mother of God and it is perfectly acceptable to hold to her perpetual virginity.
    About the prayers to Mary, not so much and because we can find others in our own or other traditions who hold to Roman and papal error, does not in the least excuse or give cover to papal error.

    The popes so far come the closest to sitting on the throne in the church proclaiming such error. I guess it was more obvious in the 16th century. They have better PR today 🙂

  3. Duane Arnold says:

    The invocation of the saints is, I believe, in the Confessions a matter of conscience. As for the rest, it is an anachronism. I know that it is part of the Lutheran Confessions and I don’t wish to offend, but on the evidence of history (and theology) it is an anachronism nonetheless….

  4. Jean says:

    There are more than a few doctrines in the current Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church that are anti-biblical:

    “Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

    836 “All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God…. and to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation.”

    837 “Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who – by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion – are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.'”

    838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”

    2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are “authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice.” The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.

    2035 The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed.

    I appreciate Duane’s generosity in depicting the Roman Church, but being a participant in a FB group with many committed and conservative Roman Catholics, I am confident they would not recognize Duane’s generosity in their own description of their church.

    Moreover, if you follow the current Pope, he is known more for his social activism than preaching Christ crucified, which if I recall correctly was the focus of St. Paul.

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    Jean,

    There is Biblical theology and there is also the development of doctrine. Much of what you state above belongs to the latter… along with documents such as the definition of Chalcedon, which, while not biblical in its language, represents the development of doctrine…

  6. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane,
    So is it possible the RCC took to heart Melanchthon’s writings and said – “wow, the Lutherans were right, we had better change.”? 🙂

    It’s funny, Rome has not revoked Trent so we Lutherans may not see it so much as an anachronism – it may just be suspiciously dormant today.

    However, not to get too distracted from the point of the article, that insertion was to just show how the anti christ / Beast can be viewed coming out of the church. Others may think it is Joel Osteen.

  7. Duane Arnold says:

    MLD

    Karl Barth once said that Vatican II would have given Luther 95% of what in wanted in terms of Church reform…

  8. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well Barth is probably wrong on this also. Even if he were right who would drink from a cup where you were assured that 95% of the strychnine had been removed?

    I look at it this way – Rome is continually calling Lutherans to come home. There have been probably a half dozen joint conferences held between Rome and worldwide Lutheran groups in the past 25 years. Only the liberal branches attend because like many groups the “getting along” part is valued much more than correct doctrine. I will stand on conservative Lutherans seeing through the sham of modern day RCC deception.

  9. Duane Arnold says:

    MLD

    I have to disagree… but you know that already 😁

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