The Weekend Word

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24 Responses

  1. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jesus is so cntrary to what we sometimes preached from the pupit.
    1.) We hear that Jesus is the peace giver – but here he speaks of not bringing peace but the sword (non peace)
    2.) Jesus created the family, marriage as such as the unit to carry on society – and here he speaks of destroying families.
    3.) As I was speaking with someone yesterday, we think of Jesus being the one to reveal truth about the kingdom and to make everyone understand the kingdom – but as we will see in chapter 13 in the parables, Jesus uses the parables to hide truth from people – in this case the masses.

    I like to tell people, and I will probably remind my class this morning – whenever you think you have Jesus figured out, take your understanding and turn it on it’s head as it is probably the opposite. 😉

  2. Em ... again says:

    it’s your two kingdom principle at work, MLD 🙂

    Truths purposely hid from the wise?

    coming off of reading this week’s prayer and thinking that, if ever there was a testament to the Holy Spirit at work within us, it is the fact that Clement’s declarations still resonate in our hearts after all these years of waiting (we are sensible and realistic people, no matter what the world says)…

    from where i sit this morning….

  3. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, I don’t know where you pick any two kingdom theology here.
    You ask “Truths purposely hid from the wise?” No, it seems to be kept hidden from the masses. Look who the parable is addressed to – “Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. Then he told them many things in parables, saying:…”

    Now the disciples seem to understand that Jesus’ parables were not understood by the crowd, so they asked – “The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

    And Jesus’ reply seems to be pretty clear – he did not want them to understand. “He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.”
    Sounds like Jesus has a purpose in leaving the masses standing on the outside looking in.

    But to stay on topic of the actual text, why is Jesus bring division where there should be peace and harmony?

  4. Em ... again says:

    well, let’s drop the two kingdoms as we probably do have different definitions

    as to using the term “wise”… well, the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God – Yes, i think we agree that He wasn’t ever much concerned with making sense to the world at large – beyond the basic message of salvation… we have a problem when we are at odds within the Family of Believers… a problem, not necessarily a condemnation – but…
    i’m here to tell you we do walk a fine line with those who are not Believers… how to stand, to take the hits and accusations and hostility that tends to be subtle or condescending most of the time in this land, yet as you’ve observed in your lesson, it can escalate to real persecution and even death – death just because we are what we are
    Do you really teach that we CAN live in peace and harmony with the world? or just that we should TRY to do so even though it’s not always going to happen?

    most of what we call mixed messages are really resolved when we stop to consider who our Lord was addressing – or the problem being addressed – are they not?

    just from where i sit this beautiful Sunday morning after the storm

  5. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, well I think it is clear that Jesus is addressing the disciples alone as he is sending them out into the world. He wants our message to be decisive.

    He is making clear that his message must bring division and break up families or it is not being delivered properly.

    Which is my point – the message we hear from many pulpits in pop American Christianity is the opposite – come to Jesus and life will be better, peaceful, fix your marriage fix your kids. Nope, like will be in turmoil with those folks.

    “Do you really teach that we CAN live in peace and harmony with the world? or just that we should TRY to do so even though it’s not always going to happen?”
    Well, now there is a 2 kingdom question 😉

  6. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    To all – what about my question?
    “What does it mean to “take up your cross”? I think it is used as a big ‘throw everything in it’ statement.

    What does Jesus what us to do – and how do you know that? Also, this is before Jesus on the cross – does it have meaning to the disciples?

  7. Em ... again says:

    good teaching MLD – teach on… hope some good answers come back to you here

  8. Jean says:

    MLD,

    “2.) Jesus created the family, marriage as such as the unit to carry on society – and here he speaks of destroying families.”

    The families Jesus is destroying are family structures corrupted by the fall. Jesus still is in favor of families, but he is redeeming God’s original intent for the family.

    “What does it mean to “take up your cross”? I think it is used as a big ‘throw everything in it’ statement.”

    I’ll give you a clue: “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” 🙂

  9. Jean,
    The 2nd half of the question how do we know that. The disciples didn’t know or understand that Jesus was going to the cross. Would it have an about saying? Now we could just leave it like of many Jesus’ sayings – unknown for their times ‘ all they would find out at their own persecution.

    What about that those those who say “my cross to bear is, my husband or my kids or my well fill in the blank. This is the throw everything in saying.

  10. I was asking was this a common saying for the cultural?

  11. John 20:29 says:

    since no one else is responding right now… i never noticed this timing thing before, but now that i think on it, weren’t most condemned to crucifixion people required to carry their own cross to the hill?
    maybe we all, or most, have crosses to bear as we pass through this world, Christian or not? hmmm

  12. So last question. Done anyone have an opinion on my take on John the B in prison? Crisis Of faith or a teacher’s tool?

  13. Jean says:

    “So last question. Done anyone have an opinion on my take on John the B in prison?”

    Crisis of faith.

  14. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Heretic 😉

    It’s an odd placement of this story – 3 chapter before we hear the story of John the B be tossed into prison.

  15. John 20:29 says:

    well, since faith doesn’t equal omniscience, couldn’t the man just have had a crisis of understanding?

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em – of course he could have but he did have some pretty spectacular events of his life intersecting with Jesus

  17. Jean says:

    Although you are asking us to speculate **again, which is your proclivity ( 🙂 ), there is good exegetical evidence to lump John in with the other Jews of his time who were expecting a messiah who would bring a more traditional reign:

    “Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

    “His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

    Very apocalyptic sounding.

  18. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I ask questions to stir up conversation – remember, I am a classroom teacher and do not have the luxury of a pulpit minister who just disseminates information from his mouth to the pewster’s ear. So my lessons are set up for this 2 way exchange.

    John the B had the experience of leaping in the womb when first confronted with the savior and he did see the heavens open and God make the declaration of who Jesus was. That would hard to forget.

    Since John the B knows he will die shortly he needs to prepare his disciple ahead to trust Just – perhaps in just telling them himself – he finds it to be more helpful to hear it from the horse’ mouth – Jesus … but I think I explain that in more detail in the next lesson. (I taught this probably a year ago and give them to Michael some weeks in advance that I would need to go back and look myself.)

  19. Jean says:

    MLD,

    Your argument doesn’t hold up. This apparently happened after the transfiguration:

    “And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, ‘Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?’”

    If the disciples didn’t get it, why wouldn’t John the B?

  20. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Doesn’t the Latin language term for your reasoning? Non-Sequitur?
    The fact that some disciples didn’t get it does not mean that John the B did not get it.

    But I could be off – it’s raining here today and we don’t know what to make of it. Some of my co workers are hiding under their desks 😉

  21. Jean says:

    Let’s take a survey…What are your favorite memories from your youth in your mother’s womb?

  22. Michael says:

    I don’t have much doubt that John was expecting a triumphant Messiah who would throw off Rome and keep guys like him from getting their heads lopped off.

  23. Xenia says:

    Didn’t the disciples “get it?” They did not have have all the theology down pat but they did know Christ was Someone who could call fire down from heaven.

  24. Jean says:

    By “get it”, we are talking about the extent to which John the B or the disciples understood during Jesus’ ministry the nature of the coming kingdom.

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