Things I Think

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46 Responses

  1. filbertz says:

    I’m having a hard time generating concern for the decline of American evangelicalism. Most of its rise was based on cultural cues which have run their course as well. The Church will stand.

    Your observation 9 is so true. Few things cut through the BS like mortality.

    Baseball…now they’re talking of messing with the strike zone to make the game move, faster, generate more offence, and raise interest…they’ll ruin the beautiful game for sure.

  2. Jean says:

    “10. When did this become optional? “Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone….”

    There is a dichotomy in American culture between “strength” and “weakness”. Strength is considered virtuous and weakness is a vice.

    But what gets counted as “weakness” are terms such as forgiving, peaceful, patient, reasonable, etc.. So, Christianity which attaches itself to American culture has to shed many of the biblical attributes of its namesake. But it is remaking Him in a different image (let the reader imagine).

  3. Michael says:

    Fil,

    Well said…

    Jean,

    Your last paragraph is true and should shake us from our idolatry and truly “false Gospel”.

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Does anyone have a clue who Head is? And why do they have Whosoever in their name? You must really need to be an insider to even have a clue what they were talking about in the beginning of that video from Oakland?

  5. Michael says:

    MLD,

    They do Thursday nights at CCCM.

    Ryan Ries is Rauls kid

  6. Phil Metzger says:

    I had the privilege of sharing on Thursday night at CCCM for Shine with Ryan. It was such a great night of getting to reach people that I’d say most of us Christians don’t get to normally. I’m glad Costa Mesa is willing to provide this kind of opportunity.

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    CCCM has hooked up with John Crowder and Jonathan Welton???? If so, Oakland just may be right. I am only 8 min in but if this is what they are up to… well let’s just say they have gone over to the dark side.

    This is not just cultural stuff to draw people in – if they keep going to see this stuff every Thursday, they will make false professions and remain damned.

    John Crowder is absolutely crazy and Jonathan Welton, although he seems like a nice guy is just as crazy. I have looked at a lot of his materials – but I can’t remember for sure, but isn’t he of the grave sucking movement?

  8. Michael says:

    MLD,

    One of the members of the band hangs out with some highly questionable characters.
    It would be incorrect to say that CCCM has hooked up with the insane.
    It would be correct that I would flush the Thursday night nonsense in a heartbeat…

  9. EricL says:

    #7- The video reminds me of an article by Roger Olson last week about fundamentalism. It isn’t enough that you separate from the “bad folks”, but you also must separate from those who dare to associate with the wrong people.

    Some aged rock star hangs out with folks who are questionable in their theology… sad. A handful of pastors try to paper over his lack of discernment… sadder. Another “pastor” tries to paint the rock star as satanic and the pastors as tools of Satan… saddest of all.

    What a miserable life those CC Fundies must lead, always worrying about catching cooties from someone who may have touched someone who was sneezed on by an untouchable (anyone who isn’t as doctrinally pure as they are).

  10. EricL says:

    The rock star is part of their ministry team at CCCM? I missed that in Oakland’s screed.

  11. Ryan Ashton says:

    The problem with poo-pooing the video because it was made by a fundy is, by so doing, we overlook what CCCM is trying to gloss over. Laughing at a lack of “perfect theology” (and even the phrase) is exactly what led my house church—also fans of John Crowder—down the rabbit hole of heresy.

    Head and Ryan Ries have some major repenting to do, otherwise Thursday nights at CCCM are in for a treat…

  12. ( |o )====::: says:

    “One of the members of the band hangs out with some highly questionable characters.”

    So did Jesus & His friends.

  13. ( |o )====::: says:

    So does God, all the time

  14. ( |o )====::: says:

    So do i whenever I visit this place, it feels like home

  15. ( |o )====::: says:

    “look what the cat drug in…”
    …always highly appropriate

  16. ( |o )====::: says:

    There was a guy who had some cogent thoughts on something quite similar

    “So in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.”

  17. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    ( |o )====:::

    He doesn’t hang around with some highly questionable characters – he is the highly questionable character.

  18. ( |o )====::: says:

    MLD,
    So am I, so are you, so is everybody.

    My big questions are,

    Is he, are they kind?
    Is he, are they welcoming & loving?
    Are widows and orphans getting fed, clothed, housed?
    Are lives changed for the better?
    Are broken families being healed?
    According to the statements of faith and how to locate God, there’s a whole lot that is a great basis for christian spirituality, so if anyone goes off course there can be an appeal to those stated things and it can be fixed.

  19. ( |o )====::: says:

    On our journies with God we mess up.
    ML messed up about Jewish people.
    Many of our Southern mess up about Black people.

    Call it out and lovingly embrace and attempt to engage but don’t write anyone off.

  20. Jean says:

    Shouldn’t the “testimony” churches share and focus be the testimony of the Redeemer?

  21. ( |o )====::: says:

    Jean,
    Not primarily.
    Fruit, actions springing from character are to be the distinctive of those who name Jesus as their God.

  22. ( |o )====::: says:

    God calls His people, He tells them they are to be a blessing.
    Anyone can carve laws into tablets.
    Only He can change the character and therefore the choices of those who He calls and empowers.

  23. That Guy Over There says:

    MLD,

    “Head” is Brian Welch’s stage name. When I was in High School he played in the band Korn, then became a christian. I guess he plays shows with Korn again since the other guys have kicked their drug habits or something. But it makes sense for him to keep the stage name since it’s what the kids from the sub culture he is trying to reach know him as.

    It would be the same for Peter Hernandez (Bruno Mars), Reggie Dwight (Elton John), David Evans (The Edge) or Marvin Aday (Meatloaf) i suppose.

  24. ( |o )====::: says:

    Choosing to share your lunch among a crowd of over 5,000 because this Jesus guy says something which touches and changes you, and being in His presence causes you to connect with Him so you see your neighbors’ need as equal to or greater than your own, and the miracle comes in the sharing.

  25. ( |o )====::: says:

    So Jesus impacts head and Head still has some friends who are part of the Metal subculture…

    …yeah, so?

  26. That Guy Over There says:

    Someone is gonna have to talk me through the Roger Oakland thing a bit… and the Head thing too I guess…

    Roger’s article seemed more about defending (and promoting) himself. I didn’t read Brian Broderson into it anywhere. Any critique he had of Calvary Pastors felt aimed at all of us, the whole movement.

    the “Head Video” seems to be by exclusionary Fundamentalists for exclusionary Fundamentalists. People would would be inclined to agree with RO will be firmer in their view if they see a video like that, and people who find it silly will most likely find the video silly.

    Someone help me see otherwise on this

  27. Papias says:

    That Oakland video is as rambling, nonsensical, guilty by association as his writings.

  28. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Head is welcome in my church any day.

    I guess going back to the initial video of Ken Sutton’s questions and there was no challenge to the bad theology – I guess at that point Brodersen as the chief should have said – “I will look into this – we can’t have bad theology center stage every Thursday night.” – he was sitting right there – but then we didn’t get the whole program so perhaps he did fire him.

  29. London says:

    This guy is the guy in question?

    http://www.iamsecond.com/seconds/brian-welch/

  30. Michael says:

    If you read all of Oaklands commentaries as well as watch any of his conference speeches, you will soon understand that he and his fellow travelers specifically target “some” CC pastors.

    He has a contingent of equally whacked friends and fans in the “movement”

    The maker of that video has been an advocate for Paul Smith and the depose Brodersen faction from the beginning.

  31. Michael says:

    London,

    That’s the guy…

  32. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    London,
    This guy is the guy in question?

    Hmmm, I thought Brodersen and Ken Sutton were the guys in question.

  33. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Does anyone here admit to reading Oakland’s stuff. I read it when Michael posts but I have never searched it out to read on my own.

    Come on – own up, who reads this? He is John Crowder on a different plane.

  34. Reuben says:

    Thought 3, truer words have never been spoken regarding the survivability of some subgroups of church.

    Thought 5, the reason I love baseball. My son will grow up learning the art, and in his 4th year, he has managed to see the field as a strategy, where he hits, where he throws, where he runs, how he swings, and how to better himself as a player. He is the smallest kid on the team, and everyone revels in his skill, coaches, players, parents, and he has learned that his skill will gain him respect, so he tries even harder. The lessons learned in baseball are infinitely more valuable than what the pace of other sports are capable of providing.

  35. Eric says:

    If you think baseball is a game of patience, not fitting the cultural temperament, consider cricket. The longest games go for five days. When half-day games came in at the elite level, critics complained that it was more like baseball than cricket.

  36. Erunner says:

    Our doorbell rang a few hours ago. I opened it and two men, one playing guitar, sang through most of a Chris Tomlin song. They then told me they were Pilipino , handed me a plastic card and proceeded to ask for a donation for their organization. I was taken aback and told them we support others through our church. They then told me any amount would help but I sent them on their way as they continued to sing their way through our neighborhood.

  37. SJ says:

    Michael,
    #10 was a confirmation/affirmation to our fam this evening. My 80 something folks all worked up over flying to the Deep South from CA for the first marriage of a grandchild. The father (son and my brother) in and out of jail, drugs/alcohol etc….will he make it to walk daughter down the isle? Is he capable….etc….etc…..Folks using this as variable on they themselves attending wedding. Worry stress worry worry!

    Me and my other brother busted out that verse with folks to discuss this evening before hopping on the blog and reading your 10. ……..it is what we all should be having on our frontal lobe daily, make your own application…..we did! I know wrong day, right?

  38. Dan from Georgia says:

    Amen to number 1 Michael!

  39. luke says:

    #5 and 6 —

    Hey, don’t tell that to millions of Cubs fans! Not just in Chi-town but all over the Midwest.

  40. once a cc guru says:

    The fact the none of you couch potatoes are not the least bit alarmed by the video of korn head brian shows just how far Christendom has backslid into apostasy…

    god help the frog church cooking in boiling water

  41. nathan priddis says:

    @ 42.

    I live in a sleepy town. We have a pastor that orgasm-ed with Jesus and has been chasing that initial high for twenty years. Again, it’s a sleepy town. This is pretty run of the mill stuff and not new.

    About the video..
    It was a mess. The video did a poor job of outlining their point. If you follow the comments above, people are unable to identify what, who and where the focus is, even after watching.

    You are a little behind the times. Bill Bright and Loren Cunningham had visions from (god) in 1975. (god) outline a new plan for a fascist society that is called Seven Mountains Theology. Don’t forget about Lonnie Frisbee.

    In fact, the question is not who has had a visitation, but who has not.

    About CCCM..

    They are toast. It’s not that they will be judged for this crap, but rather, the crap is the judgement. I have only met a couple of people that came back after a visitation. They never returned to normal.

    http://www.the7mountains.com/history/

  42. Alan says:

    Your point #3 is outstanding. And, A comment about your point #1, that also relates to point #3.

    I’m a registered independent, but am very conservative politically. Yet even I grew weary of the mega churches cozying up to the political right. One of the things I like most when I occasionally attend an Eastern Orthodox Church is that the Priest never says anything about politics. Rather, it’s all about Christ and everything else, politics included, pales in comparison, so it just isn’t worth mentioning during the service.

  43. Alan says:

    Sorry for the back to back posts. I meant to add, Amen to #8.

    As far as baseball, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve totally lost interest in the NBA and the NFL, but my love for baseball seems to grow stronger with each passing season.

  44. Descended says:

    #9
    True immanence. Hope you are feeling better today than at this time last year 🙂

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