Things I Think

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119 Responses

  1. Duane Arnold says:

    Makes one wonder if early Christians spent an enormous time wondering about who the Praetorian Guard was going to murder or proclaim emperor.

    Clearly, there is the City of God and the City of Man. I think I’m going to stick with the one that’s eternal…

  2. Michael says:

    Duane,

    It’s not only eternal, but present today, as you know.

    I only wish it’s progress was as well reported as the events in the other city…

  3. Dallas says:

    “sitting comfortably on the sidelines”

    Sometimes sitting on the sideline is what faith dictates when to act is to support evil.

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As both candidates are not only non Christian but actually anti Christian – I find it impossible to vote for either. What I don’t understand is how any Christian can and will vote for either.

    I know I will not vote on the presidential line just because I cannot participate in the hoax. Maybe, just maybe I will write in the name Jesus Christ – but that may dirty him.

    Watch what out what you do.

  5. Michael says:

    Dallas,

    True, when it comes to partisan politics.
    There are uncountable activities that the kingdom provides for us to participate in besides them.

  6. Em ... again says:

    1- no , i don’t think that is quite correct… while i’d agree that depraved thinking was on display, i also saw some honest declarations – even if they were couched in accusatory language 🙂
    2- as to “evangelical leaders” … i’d say to them, who made you the boss of me? … that said, i saw a declaration of God’s truth this morning as Pence (whatever your politics) declared the situation of the human race – “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” and he did so thoughtfully, not in a glib and dismissive manner… that must count for something?
    3- the god of pragmatism? along the lines of, ‘for the good of all, it is necessary for holiness to step aside?’ sigh, that is right on target, i think
    4- AMEN
    5- ‘boys will be boys?’ – well, then, maybe, we need a clearer definition of manhood?
    6- thank God… for peace of mind 🙂
    7- love it! love it!
    8- yes, hang onto what is true… make sure one’s growth does not contradict that
    9- a good new petition to add to my prayers… Lord, help us all to make You more visible – thank you…
    10- very sober ponder here… 1 Cor 13:3-8

  7. Dallas says:

    Michael, absolutely agree, just commenting within that very small framework.

    MLD, I’m in complete agreement. I’m just glad that I have taken the advice that I’ve seen here at various times and interacted with it very little on Facebook. I didn’t feed the algorithm, so it has mostly died.

    I do still occasionally get little snippets of people that I respect, saying things that make my brain want to vomit, but it’s too a lesser extent than I think it otherwise would be.

  8. Michael says:

    Em,

    At the end of the day our job is to do what you wrote…make Christ more visible and assure the world that He’s assessable.
    The rest of this is vanity…

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “saying things that make my brain want to vomit, ”

    love that one 🙂

  10. filbertz says:

    What has been strangely absent is a call to prayer for wisdom regarding the vote. Christians seem to be intent on advising each other about the vote instead of turning to the Head. Perhaps God will lead his people to do something other than what they have assumed He would.

    the Vikings appear to be the cream of the crop right now…though my Lions won again… 😉

    listening to the debate and the various ‘tapes’ etc. has been horribly deflating for me personally, though it has provided great opportunities to talk with my kids about our culture, politicians, values, etc.

  11. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    Absolutely, the City of God is a present reality and under-reported. Additionally, we don’t see it in the triumphalism of those who want a “seat at the table” of the powerful. Instead we see in the hands of those feeding the hungry, caring for the stranger, expressing love instead of hate, and looking after the needs, physical and spiritual, of “the least of these”…

  12. Bob Sweat says:

    I’m going to post the Moore quote on Facebook. Now I will eaten alive by family and friends.

  13. Jean says:

    “If “the greatest of these is love”…what happened?”

    Nothing happened…Jesus still loves you Michael!

    It’s incredibly ironic that the Christian leaders you speak of are supporting Trump because of pragmatism. Pragmatism is antithetical to conservatism. Conservatism is premised on principles. Pragmatism is premised on situational ethics. The only thing that Trump has corrupted more than the GOP this election cycle is the American conservative church.

  14. filbertz says:

    This political season has validated what Sebastian Junger wrote in “Tribe,” his latest book—that soldiers/vets returned from Afghanistan or Iraq are so disenchanted and depressed because they sacrificed so much & risked so much “for this?” Our culture/society isn’t worthy of their service.

  15. Michael says:

    Bob,

    We loved you and you were a good man… 🙂

  16. Michael says:

    Duane,

    Your # 11 is pure gold…

  17. Michael says:

    fil,

    There have been lots of calls to prayer…that assumed that God would answer with a Republican. 🙂

    This has been a challenging season at my house trying to explain all this mess to T who has taken an interest in it all.

    Very challenging…

  18. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    Thanks… It has struck me, maybe the real issue is the desire for power and influence. I’m trying to think of any NT passage that commends seeking after power and influence, but really can’t think of one. I can find plenty a passages that commend “taking the lower seat”…

  19. Babylon's Dread says:

    I do not think I can possibly vote for a major party candidate in this election.

  20. Michael says:

    Duane,

    “It has struck me, maybe the real issue is the desire for power and influence.”

    Because we have chosen a corporate model of ecclesiology, this was inevitable.

    What I would like someone to state are the concerns of the kingdom of God that have been unchanged since Jesus spoke them…and then apply those concerns to today.

  21. Michael says:

    BD,

    Which then brings up the question…do Christians have a biblical duty to vote?

  22. Em ... again says:

    BD – that is one valid conclusion… on the other hand, i don’t believe that it is in any way sinful for a Christian to vote for one of these two people… we aren’t nominating them for heaven, after all… for me the question that Believers have to ask themselves is, what are the ambitions, track record and goals of the one who’s getting my vote, if i decide to so do… right now my puzzle is, does lechery trump lying? 🙂

    here’s an interesting theory that i heard… long ago, working behind the scenes to get Trump nominated were the Clinton Democrats because they’d concluded he was the one they could beat hands down… too far fetched? dunno

    if we are responsible voters, we’ll elect good congressmen if there are such things out there …politics is really the devil’s playground or so it seems to me… hmmm … maybe BD is right …

  23. ( |o )====::: says:

    “Christians have a biblical duty to vote?”

    As we have a system where we have a voice, can influence the outcomes of the general well being, and a duty to those around us who are less fortunate…

    …yes

  24. Em ... again says:

    “do Christians have a biblical duty to vote?” render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s? nah, he’s not on the ballot … wait does that mean that, if he were, we’d have a duty to vote for him? … sorry

    i don’t get why we’d have a biblical duty to anything belongs to the commerce of the world, the flesh and the devil… well, taking a bath might be a duty to the world and the flesh… dunno

    doesn’t it seem like we have a lot of biblical duties that we’re letting slide that should be higher priorities than voting? like praying for those in authority, for instance?

  25. ( |o )====::: says:

    We have the blessing of free coffee at work.
    Some of my co-workers leave empty pots.
    I’m one of those who learned that it takes 5min to brew a fresh pot.
    I stopped bitching about empty pots and decided the privilege of brewing outweighs the alternative.

  26. Em ... again says:

    G.’s point seems a valid one to me… and that raises the question, are the Christian leaders who urge support of a particular candidate doing so out of concern for the health and well being of our fellows?

  27. Xenia says:

    he problem in my mind with ancient confessions is not that they are inaccurate…it’s that they assume that God ceased giving illumination of His word through the Holy Spirit after the confession was written…<<<

    This is not true in the Orthodox Church, or the Catholic Church. We have Saints who hear from the Holy Spirit!

  28. Em ... again says:

    crossed comments again LOL – i was reacting to G’s #23 … i think that the reason to go get a cup of coffee was always the excuse it gave one to get up and walk around a bit… back in my day

    hope you make a good strong pot, G…

  29. Duane Arnold says:

    #20

    Michael

    Amen and Amen…

  30. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    But is that hearing ever reflected in a change of doctrinal positions or even nuance?

  31. Xenia says:

    What has been strangely absent is a call to prayer for wisdom regarding the vote<<<

    I had a depressing conversation with an evangelical pastor who, after deflecting every critique I had about his pet candidate with responses like "Ben Carson likes him and Ben Carson has [I forget how many] honorary degrees so *** would make a wonder president" I figured it was hopeless and then he said "Well, you just need to pray about it."

    I do not need to pray about it, folks.

    Meanwhile…. There's been a police helicopter circling our immediate neighborhood for an hour. There was a stabbing a few streets away and the stabbers are on the loose. Our doors are locked!

  32. Xenia says:

    Michael, why in the world would we ever want to change our doctrinal positions????

  33. Michael says:

    Em,

    I assume that those who are Christians supporting one candidate or the other believe they are doing so righteously.

    My thought is that for fifty years we’ve tried to accomplish politically what only the Gospel can do…

  34. Xenia says:

    This copter is gonna run out of gas soon and will probably crash into my vegetable garden….

  35. Jean says:

    Perhaps a chopped or cobb salad. 🙂

  36. Xenia says:

    Chopped salad 🙂

  37. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    At least if they’re hovering they probably have the stabbers in sight…

  38. Xenia says:

    No! According the the police scanner, they haven’t found them yet.

    The police are going door-to-door now. I’d better put the dog away…

  39. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    When it comes to a biblical obligation to vote – are we in sin if we do not?
    I had this as an ending to a comment on the other thread; from Matt 10:23

    ““23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”

    Perhaps Jesus should have said – “don’t flee that city – run for city council …” this is the way the Religious Right has interpreted this passage 😉 ”

    I am hard pressed to see anywhere in scripture that Christians are mandated to participate in the governing system. I am not saying we can’t – but it is not by command.

    When the situation is bad and the “town” is not friendly we are to flee – it says nothing about making changes.Well these political choices have made the town unfriendly – I will ‘politically’ flee.

  40. Duane Arnold says:

    #33

    “My thought is that for fifty years we’ve tried to accomplish politically what only the Gospel can do…”

    In my opinion, the business we are in is about changing people’s hearts, not their politics.

  41. Paige says:

    7. As I get older, the doctrinal minutiae that used to fascinate me, now bores me. My eternity will be based on a relationship, not an entrance exam…

    Amen. Amen. 100% agree! Why was I so obsessed for so long? Every moment is a gift from God, and the beauty of life in His Creation just blows my mind.

    8. The problem in my mind with ancient confessions is not that they are inaccurate…it’s that they assume that God ceased giving illumination of His word through the Holy Spirit after the confession was written…

    Hmmm interesting thought….I still like them. ‘Fellowship with the ancients’. Good company.

    9. As I get older all my “Christian” issues are becoming pastoral…How can I use this (fill in the blank) to help people see Jesus more clearly? Everything else is a waste of my time…

    Amen! Amen! Life IS ministry…the mundane is precious.

    10. If “the greatest of these is love”…what happened?

    Exactly…. Love God. Love people.

  42. Michael says:

    Duane,

    “In my opinion, the business we are in is about changing people’s hearts, not their politics.”

    For most of the outcomes we desire politically, only a change of heart will accomplish them.

    Especially on issues like abortion…

  43. Michael says:

    Paige,

    I love the ancient creeds and confessions…but I’m also open to God making minor corrections as we go…

  44. Michael says:

    “I am hard pressed to see anywhere in scripture that Christians are mandated to participate in the governing system. I am not saying we can’t – but it is not by command.”

    100% agree…

  45. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    Christianity Today has an op-ed just out on the subject we are discussing… (I hope this is allowed.)

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/october-web-only/speak-truth-to-trump.html?start=1

  46. Cash says:

    I do believe there is a duty to vote. I don’t know if it’s a Christian duty as much as the duty of a citizen. It’s ok if you don’t like either candidate, I believe all states have a mechanism for writing in a candidate not on the ballot. What must be remembered too is that there are down ballot races and races for judges, and initiatives for the people to decide. So you’re really missing a lot if you stay home.

  47. Michael says:

    Duane,

    It’s allowed…I have some great stuff ready for tomorrow too…

  48. Michael says:

    Cash,

    I will always vote for the local measures, even if I ignore the national travesty.

  49. Dan from Georgia says:

    Always agree with number5!

    Couldn’t have said numbers 1 and 2 any better. I know Russell Moore gets bashed from time to time, especially from fundies, but his words directed at the nameless, but we know who he is referring to, are prophetic and unfortunately true. So sad that those who were once guardians of our faith (DOBSON for one!) are now on the verge of losing their moral voice and the respect of many. At least Wayne Grudem did the right thing.

  50. Michael says:

    Jean,

    My only take on this is that I’ve heard the same kinds of deflections from people defending rogue pastors…

  51. Bob Sweat says:

    Didn’t take long. I’m now a self-righteous Christian. This election has generated so much hate and division. I completely understand that a no vote is a vote for Clinton, but voting the lessor of 2 evils is something that I will not do.

    Also, there is a separation of powers in our Constitution that limits the power of the President. If evangelicals are so concerned, they better start praying that the Republicans maintain control of Congress.

  52. Dan from Georgia says:

    Oh, I meant total support for item 6 – Go Vikes!

  53. Jean says:

    Bob, there righteous indignation has blinded them. There going to sacrifice their party.

  54. Michael says:

    Bob,

    If you think they were rude to you, go look at what they did to Larry Taylor…unbelievable.

  55. JTK says:

    #9
    “All my “Christian” issues are becoming pastoral”

    That warms my heart.
    And I’m not as old as you.
    😛

    Nobody has ever asked me about an end times chart in 2 decades of outreach

  56. Jean says:

    Apology for the typos in #54.

  57. JTK says:

    Two things about the election:

    I’m glad I decided to not try to persuade anyone this year on whom to vote for. I’ve seen many try to manipulate, guilt trip or coerce votes for Trump, and it sickens me.

    If someone us uncomfortable voting for a particular candidate, don’t vote for them.

    I hate “compromises” usually, but voting for the “lesser of two evils” can be acceptable too, it’s up to your conscience.

    I couldn’t vote for either major party 4 years ago.

    Second, I think as Christians we ABSOLUTELY should vote in every election. No, MLD, true refugees CAN BE excluded.

    A bad vote seems, deep down, worse than no vote.
    No citation, just a plea for everyone who is a Christian to vote.

  58. Eric says:

    In Australia, we don’t vote directly for the head of government. The Prime Minister is the leader of the party with a majority of seats in the House of Reps. If a party doesn’t like their leader, they can choose a new one. And they do! In the last 30 years, there have been 7 changes of Prime Minister. 3 were at elections, when the people voted the other party in. 4 times the party in government has changed leader.

    The new PM will be taunted by the opposition for not having been elected by the people, but everything moves on. The party in opposition changes leader more often. The prime motivation is usually to choose a leader who will make their party more electable. I’m sure many on both sides of US politics are wishing they had this arrangement this year.

  59. Michael says:

    Eric,

    Sounds good to me… 🙂

  60. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    If you vote for the “lesser” of 2 evils, are you not still voting for evil?

    To me the only Christian response is to abstain from the entire process (at least on the Presidential level.) What better message could the Church give than to state firmly and loudly – we will not participate in this hoax.

    Now I do vote on the local issues – I firmly vote no on all state and local initiates.

  61. Em ... again says:

    still waiting to hear that Xenia and family are safe – praying

  62. Xenia says:

    Hi Em, everything’s calmed down. The helicopter is gone and they are not talking about it on the scanner anymore. I think the stabbers are probably inside a house and probably don’t pose a danger to ordinary people. Thanks for the concern!

  63. sue says:

    #49 The Washington post is a very to the ‘left’ media publication. They have been for Hilary all along and against Trump at every turn. In other words, they are extremely biased. So they love talking about and putting an emphasize on this Trump ‘sin’, but avoid doing the same kind of thing about the ‘sins’ made by Hilary, etc. that make her look awful. I for one do not know any ‘righteous’ Christian men or non Christian men who have not erred somewhere sexually either in ‘comments’ when alone with other men (or in their fantasies) or in action in the shadows where they think no one will ever know. I am looking at what these candidates positions are instead. I am for Trump. I am tired of being told I have to see myself as a globalist. I think you take care of your own first and our country needs plenty of help here especially in our inner cities. I am tired of hearing of people losing their jobs as corporations leave our country. I am tired of being told its not ok to secure our borders, when I always secure my home, just like the white house does too. I am tired of hearing of people I knew as kids that they are now hooked on heroin because it is epidemic now in America, flowing freely across our borders. I could go on and on but I am voting for the candidate that is the closest to values that I think Jesus would approve of. If I were to consider if a candidate is ‘saintly’ enough, I wouldn’t be voting ever for anyone, male or female. lol

  64. Erunner says:

    I’m surrounded by Trump folks in my life. I thought the narrative was that Paula White led Trump to Christ this year as was announced by James Dobson. If people believe this then a vulgar video tape from ten years ago while tremendously humiliating took place before his conversion. In that case God has forgiven him and he is no longer that man.

    If believers who support Trump hold to the above being true then I don’t berate them if they choose to still support him. At least they are being consistent.

    If Trump loses (which now seems likely) believers who have been fear mongering as far as what a Clinton presidency means for the country will now need to come to grips with that reality.

    I don’t personally believe a national repentance is coming any time soon so however things unfold the hope of the believer will be in God through Jesus Christ.

    The rapture of the church and the future of the world does not center around the United States. Thankfully we aren’t a third world country where people live in conditions that seem to resemble the great tribulation.

    We live in some very strange days.

  65. Michael says:

    Sue,

    I hate to break it to you, but the border is about as secure as it can get.
    A wall will not make it any more secure, but will put billions in the pockets of government contractors.
    Drugs come over the border because both countries economies are dependent on the money…it’s a cash only business…

    The war on drugs is almost fifty years old…and today the quantity and quality of drugs is better and the price is lower than ever in history.

    We have no will to stop the drug trade and if we did it could be stopped only at the expense of international commerce…which would plunge both countries into a depression.

    The migrant problem cured itself…we’ve been in a reverse migration for at least five years.

    My guess is that you haven’t heard that…

  66. Josh the Baptist says:

    ” I am voting for the candidate that is the closest to values that I think Jesus would approve of. ”

    See, that’s a shame. Wow.

  67. Michael says:

    Josh,

    Russell Moore is now one of my favorite guys…but how is he perceived by real Southern Baptists?

    If I would have wrote what he wrote the fire department would have to camp outside my house…

  68. Josh the Baptist says:

    His very tight friendship with Mohler shields him a bit, but the natives are getting restless so to speak. Usually when I hear him mentioned it’s in the sense of “a liberal like Russell Moore”.

  69. Xenia says:

    I am voting for the candidate that is the closest to values that I think Jesus would approve of. <<<

    My goodness. Well you have to follow your conscious but what are Jesus' values?

    * Love your enemies
    * Love the stranger
    * Be faithful to your spouse
    * Humility
    * Hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven
    * Lay up riches for yourself in Heaven, not on earth
    * Blessed are the peacemakers
    * Blessed are the pure in heart
    * Pay your taxes
    * Pay your workers, don't stiff them
    * Repent, repent, repent

    Well, I could go on.

    I don't want to hear the response "Well Hillary is worse!" That's the response, to quote Anderson Cooper, of a five year old.

    We don't have to vote for either of these people.

  70. Michael says:

    Josh,

    He’s never struck me as liberal…this election is redefining all sorts of things…

  71. Josh the Baptist says:

    He’s not liberal at all, but that’s kind of how he is being painted by the old guard of the SBC. Since he hasn’t just jumped in line, he must be one of them liberals!

    I’ll be curious to how he is spoken of at next summer’s convention after this particular year. We should hail him as a hero, but I’m afraid that won’t be the case.

  72. Dan from Georgia says:

    Xenia (71), that’s awesome!

    Wouldn’t bother me if Russell Moore was referred to as a liberal anyways…I think at times Jesus would have been called a liberal.

  73. Xenia says:

    Sometimes, in the midst of all our charts and studies and polls and politics and what not, sometimes we forget what kind of Person Jesus actually was and what kinds of things He was in favor of.

  74. Em ... again says:

    the nation – national mindset – in which i have lived most of my life does not exist anymore and we cannot regain it… at least that it how it appears from where i sit
    when i vote this November it won’t be in hopes of gaining back what we have lost… if i vote for President and i think i am compelled to do so for some reason, it will be a vote against the candidate and the power behind them that i find the most repugnant… it will be from human viewpoint, i fear – anger and malice possibly – it won’t be voting for the best candidate at all… we have no best candidate and, truth be told, i really don’t want citizenship in this new nation now forming… but, neither do i want to go live on a boat 🙂
    well, that’s not entirely true, i love being on the water… when it’s not blowing too hard

  75. sue says:

    On #65 Of course what I wrote is my opinions, and I stand by them. I believe also Xenia #71 that you don’t have to vote for either. I know many who are going to write in other names or not vote at all. This is America and we have wonderful freedoms here – we are not forced to vote, although some people would like to make it mandatory here like it is in some other socialist leftwing countries. I’ve also heard the response “Trump is the worse of the two”, so it does go both ways. And neither are ‘saints’.
    Michael, I have seen part of the border near where I live, have walked up to it, and it is pathetic, rickety, and not secure at all. What I saw was falling apart and in need of repairs. Drugs have been flowing in here for a long time and it is getting worse. There are much more harder drugs like heroin in the US. It is epidemic now. When I was young heroin was around but not like now. It is everywhere in California and epidemic. Even our teens have access to it now like I’ve never seen before, and many young people are getting addicted and are dying. I know personally the tragedy of a childhood friend who got addicted and blew his brains out one night. I am aware of the economic problem connected with it. The cartels are operating here and have spread throughout our country. I think in all good conscience that we have to try to stop them, deport them, etc., although I realize this problem is out of control, but I don’t think it would be the thing to do to just throw up our hands. And there are still plenty of people pouring across our borders still that we know nothing about. That problem is not ‘cured’. Take care

  76. Josh the Baptist says:

    What makes you think Trump will fight the drug problem?

    Does he really seem anti-drug to you?

  77. surfer51 says:

    Ever since the fall of Adam man has been selfish and self centered.

    In God’s realm there is peace and tranquility, He is the Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

    He gives to us a peace that the world cannot give and it cannot take away.

    The Hebrew word for “peace,” shalom, is often used in reference to an appearance of calm and tranquility of individuals, groups, and nations.

    The Greek word eirene means “unity and accord”;

    Paul uses eirene to describe the objective of the New Testament church.

    But the deeper, more foundational meaning of peace is “the spiritual harmony brought about by an individual’s restoration with God.”

    Because of Christ’s sacrifice, we are restored to a relationship of peace with God (Romans 5:1).

    Lets all step out of the muck of this world and be at peace.

    http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2016/10/bart-loves-mud-puddles.html

  78. Jean says:

    “Does he really seem anti-drug to you?”

    Not based on the sniffing we heard during Sunday evening’s debate.

  79. Em ... again says:

    everyone whose posts i read here really wants things set right, just and fair…
    somehow, myself included, we’re buying into the myth that we can elect men (generic) who can and will set things right… perhaps there is such a person out there – the Bible describes an anti-christ with such delusional promises… no saint is so depicted, tho. is he? – that’s not new news to anyone here, i know
    do we want law and order, no matter how tough? do we prefer the empty promises presented as a nurturing, caring head of state?
    God give us strength and wisdom – voting is not a sin, nor is it necessarily a virtue…
    but all in all it’s a good thing for Christians to participate, i think…
    one thing we can’t deny is that we are directed to pray for those in authority over us (parents, teachers, law officers, for some military commanders, pastors (?), judges)… does this include politicians? i thot they were supposed to do our bidding, not vice versa… this isn’t the nation we wanted, but …?…
    what is is – to quote somebody or other who posts comments here on Michael’s blogsite 🙂

  80. Em ... again says:

    #79- FWIW… my daughter who is not a Trump fan, but has to deal with coke users on occasion remarked that the sniffing we watched Sunday eve was likely a habit of some sort, but not the sort of sniffles that drug use produces

  81. Em ... again says:

    glad to see Xenia is safe, but if that fella isn’t caught, keep things locked up at your house tonight … just sayin’ 🙂

  82. surfer51 says:

    Ever since the fall of Adam man has been selfish and self centered.

    In God’s realm there is peace and tranquility, He is the Prince of Peace.

    He gives to us a peace that the world cannot give and it cannot take away.

    The Hebrew word for “peace,” shalom, is often used in reference to an appearance of calm and tranquility of individuals, groups, and nations.

    The Greek word eirene means “unity and accord”;

    Paul uses eirene to describe the objective of the New Testament church.

    But the deeper, more foundational meaning of peace is “the spiritual harmony brought about by an individual’s restoration with God.”

    Because of Christ’s sacrifice, we are restored to a relationship of peace with God

    Lets all step out of the muck of this world and be at peace.

    http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2016/10/bart-loves-mud-puddles.html

  83. Jean says:

    Do you hear it?

    “Doe Rae Me Fa So La Dee Da”

    She’s warming up. It won’t be long now.

  84. Jean says:

    Good word Sufer!

  85. ( |o )====::: says:

    Excellent. Shared.

    “what are Jesus’ values?

    * Love your enemies
    * Love the stranger
    * Be faithful to your spouse
    * Humility
    * Hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven
    * Lay up riches for yourself in Heaven, not on earth
    * Blessed are the peacemakers
    * Blessed are the pure in heart
    * Pay your taxes
    * Pay your workers, don’t stiff them
    * Repent, repent, repent”

  86. Babylon's Dread says:

    Jesus values

    My Father’s business
    My Father’s house
    My Father’s kingdom
    My Father’s commandments
    My Father’s will

    Voting is NOT Christian duty … doing good to all men is

  87. Surfer51 says:

    Good pastoral word bab

  88. sue says:

    Trump is anti hard drugs – has said many times he wants to do what he can to help stop the heroin epidemic here.
    ‘Loving the stranger’ could include others coming here you do not know and perhaps not dissing them because they think different from you.
    ‘Loving the stranger’ could mean manning a food pantry to feed needy people I don’t know personally, but it doesn’t mean I might leave my door open where a stranger can just walk into my home, especially at night.
    Voting is a privilege and one of our freedoms of choice to vote or not to vote

  89. Nonnie says:

    “To me the only Christian response is to abstain from the entire process (at least on the Presidential level.) What better message could the Church give than to state firmly and loudly – we will not participate in this hoax.”

    “Voting is NOT Christian duty … doing good to all men is”

    Yes! Yes! Yes!
    Thank you, MLD and Babs for putting it so well.

  90. Josh the Baptist says:

    “Trump is anti hard drugs”

    His history leaves me unconvinced.

  91. Al says:

    I have the luxury of casting a Protest Vote again b/c I’m in a solidly Red State.

    In the Trump vs. Clinton public orgy, I think the Hypocrisy tilts greater to the DNC, Democrats and Left/Liberals for calling out Trump for bad comments, while embracing the Clintons. Bill Clinton is likely a Rapist and has as many accusers as Bill Cosby, maybe more.

    Are Evangelicals hypocrites as well? Certainly. They make their version of Morality a big deal…until the Republican Nominee turns out to be Bill Clinton Jr.

    I’ll write in Rand Paul or Ron Paul and vote my Conscience.

  92. Al says:

    The “Voting for the lesser of two evils is evil!” Sword cuts both ways. If you vote Clinton b/c of Trump you are voting for evil.

  93. Josh the Baptist says:

    Bill Clinton isn’t running for president. You can’t really blame a wife for the infidelities of her husband.

    Hillary is a bad choice for completely different reasons.

  94. ( |o )====::: says:

    Voting IS Christian duty, just as much as flushing the toilet and taking out the trash. Neglect it at the peril of yourself & your neighbor whom you love

  95. Em ... again says:

    #84- thank you for the link to that, it is funnier than anything… but, too, it makes one wonder just how susceptible we are to performance politics?

  96. Em ... again says:

    #97 is more Biblical than opinion (in my opinion) because we are to be good ambassadors for the Kingdom as we live in whatever here and now land we’re placed in… are we not?
    that said, our one puny vote is almost a token – let each man examine his heart and vote accordingly, bearing in mind that God is judging your heart… err something like that 🙂

  97. Josh the Baptist says:

    My choice, years ago, to abstain from voting has never seemed wiser.

  98. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “Voting IS Christian duty, just as much as flushing the toilet and taking out the trash. Neglect it at the peril of yourself & your neighbor whom you love”

    All 3 may be great examples of civil duty – but a long way off from a Christian duty

    Lutherans would call this adiaphora – something that is not commanded or forbidden in scripture – the Christian is to be guided by his / her conscience.

    The question – if it is a Christian duty, is it sin if you do not?

  99. Al says:

    “Bill Clinton isn’t running for president. You can’t really blame a wife for the infidelities of her husband.

    Hillary is a bad choice for completely different reasons.”

    Bill Clinton is part of the deal. Hillary appealed to having Bill on her Economic Team b/c he is perceived as appealing in that regard…yet then it’s “Well Bill isn’t running for president!” when it comes to all the rape allegations and confirmed harassment and mistreatment of women etc.

    Nice trick, but typical of slimy politicians like the Clintons and DNC.

  100. Al says:

    The Democrats has a good chance to nominate a Non-Establishment decent man in Bernie Sanders.

    Instead, they cheated and lied and gave us the Clintons once again. Thanks.

  101. Al says:

    “had” above. Typing fast while I’m working. Someone has to pay the bills for all the free-loaders and illegals. 😉

  102. Al says:

    Actually, the Illegals probably works as much as I do. I’ll edit that to the “freeloaders” and Entitlement Crowd.

  103. Al says:

    “you can’t really blame a wife for the infidelities of her husband”

    If it was just infidelities, but last I checked RAPE and sex assault etc is not “infidelity”

  104. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Al, perhaps you should feel sorry for Hillary and offer moral support as being one in an abusive marriage (living with a cheater and rapist) and still getting out there trying to make the best of her life in this presidential run.

  105. Al says:

    “perhaps you should feel sorry for Hillary”

    I read and watched 13 Hours. Hillary can burn in the pit of a fiery hell screaming in agony for eternity as far as I’m concerned. Evil woman. If hell is real, it was invented for people like her.

  106. Em ... again says:

    we aren’t there, weren’t there for the past 40 + or – years of the Bill/Hillary episode, so we can’t really say for certain who is the abuser and who is the abused… i’d put my money on just an unholy alliance that is an offense to God’s design – serving the two players’ ambitions and affections very well…
    i do see a woman who is a master at disguising a heart full of hate – hate for anything that thwarts her insatiable ambitions … that’s what i see and i know that doesn’t make it fact, but these two people and their political machine scare me … a lot … one aspect is that their enemies abroad are equally scary; all fitting uncannily into the end time scenario

  107. Jean says:

    If there is ever a time when Christians prove that any righteousness they have is alien and that there is no moral or ethical difference which sets us apart from the world, it is during election season. The sins may be different, the young buck lusting while the senior is content to gossip and bear false witness, but we’re 100% sinners who need God’s grace as much, perhaps more, than anyone else.

  108. j2theperson says:

    Trump and Hillary embody the two main aspects of what is sometimes termed “rape culture”. Trump is the person who feels entitled to harass assault and take with impunity and Hillary is the person who covers it up and demeans, dismisses, and attacks those victims brave enough to come forward. She has no excuse and is as morally corrupt on this issue ad Trump.

  109. Em ... again says:

    J2 is correct – i recall a woman, a church going Lutheran, BTW, telling me that this behavior is nothing to be upset about as this is the way it’s always been – she was half right

    the lusting bucks and gossiping seniors …?… and the sun sets in west and rises in the east however, i’ve heard of gossiping bucks and lusting seniors, too 🙂 the difference between the 2 groups is that there’s a good chance those seniors know what they’re talking about and … never mind LOL

    then there’s those 3 monkeys who make nice desk ornaments

  110. Babylon's Dread says:

    Hold your nose and vote for the party if you struggle with the candidate.

    Or not

  111. Josh the Baptist says:

    Here’s a quote from G-man on my facebook pagein 2012_

    “The real world is the complex world neither “party” sees, the world of a million colours, tints and tones, notes and rests and harmonies expressed by individuals of every walk of life, which is why we artists are always on the outside, writing songs and painting images which cannot be commented on with a simple ballot vote. It’s why when we’ve connected with someone it’s on a completely different level of humanity other than politics. Politics is the herd mentality of a lynch mob of human suppression whereas the arts is about the freedom of human expression –

  112. Josh the Baptist says:

    Woops – Didn’t mean to include the name at the end. Sorry G!

    Michael, can you fix that for me?

  113. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Babs – it now looks like the party won’t even hold it’s nose and vote for Trump.

  114. Josh the Baptist says:

    What if you have problems with the party and the candidate?

  115. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – in my state we have eliminated the 2 party system – it’s Democrat or nothing. Republicans need not apply.

    We have an open Senate seat (which is rare) and only 2 Democrats are on the ballot.The election system is rigged from top to bottom and i think that Christians fail by participating in the system.

    It is the equivalent to offering a pinch of incense to Caesar as god. Beware Church!!

  116. Josh the Baptist says:

    I’m with you.

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