Things I Think…

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67 Responses

  1. Jackie did an entire podcast on me? Really?

    I don’t listen to her and I am sorry you had to Dude…..she’s never been one to let the facts get in the way of spreading a little gossip…..

  2. Josh the Baptist says:

    Phil, do you think Michael and other are right to think you are still unknowingly a Christian who will be back one day?

  3. Michael says:

    Josh,

    If you can find where I said that, please refer me to the place so I can correct it.

    All I’m saying is what Jesus said…which is that He will lose none who were His.

    I believe in the amazing grace and love of God that overcomes all our sins and failures and I refuse with violence to condemn someone in the middle of a long process.

    I respect Phil’s choice and take him at his word…but I take Jesus at His too…

  4. Hey Michael,

    Just listened to this mess and I must say the only thing dear Jackie got correct was the pronunciation of my last name…….

  5. Babylon's Dread says:

    I think it would be more disturbing to be judged orthodox by Rapture Ready than apostate.

    I’ve never thought of leaving the faith. I already know what it is like without Christ. The church on its worst day is not worse than being without God and without hope in this world. But I understand the sentiment.

    As for being disappointed in God, I’m pretty sure that John the Baptist was disappointed and we can certainly get in enough pain to ask the question he asked. But we live on this side of the revelation that says, “blessed is the man who is not offended by me.” I guess having focus on this passage for the last two weeks and many times over the last few years has kind of insulated me a bit from that sentiment. Again, having come to Christ from the world, he owes me nothing that has not been given.

    I’m not picking a fight, I have too many of those on my hands, I am just expressing another thought process.

    As for being hurt by the church it is no different to me than being hurt by the family or by friends, the church is filled with worldly and saintly saints.

    I just thought Phil stopped blogging, I doubt he stopped praying but what do I know?

    Finally, Jackie getting facts straight is about as likely as her getting eschatology straight. So, no one is safe.

  6. Josh the Baptist says:

    THanks Phil.

    My point to the others is that Phil is not a Christian. He does not want to be. IF you want him to be a Christian, the proper strategy is evangleism.

  7. Michael says:

    BD,

    Sometimes being in the faith can still feel like one is without Christ…if God in His mercy has spared you from such, then I thank Him for His grace toward you.

  8. Michael says:

    Josh,

    @ 7…that fits your theological paradigm.
    It doesn’t fit mine.

    We will agree to disagree.

  9. Josh,

    Evangelizing me would be a HUGE waste of time. Much like listening to the trash Jackie Alnor spewed on her podcast.

  10. Babylon's Dread says:

    Ok I just read Phil for himself.

    Like I said, “what do I know?”

    Still Dread

  11. John 20:29 says:

    It was interesting to read what i did of Phil N’s declaration of the death of his faith (yes, it is possible, Phil, that you are working thru somethings that have thrown you off temporarily – dunno, tho, … do i? ? )
    But yesterday i listened to an unbeliever (promoting a recent book) of some standing, David Berlinski declare that today outside the restrictive, biased walls of academia, honest scientists agree that there is no way to declare that God does not exist scientifically – it was interesting to listen to the man as it has been my understanding that science had moved in that direction…. made the prophesy, which used to seem impossibke, believable… The one that anti-christ will gain control as “god” with lying signs and wonders… pitiful proof for “smart” people ? or so it seems to me

  12. Josh the Baptist says:

    @ 9 – Michael, no one comes to faith without evangelism. If you want Phil to be a Christian one day, you will have to evangelize.

    @10 – Phil, I get it. I’d just like to see these guys stop spinning fantasy about you. I believe what you say about yourself and do not think you will be back without a major work from God himself.

  13. Michael says:

    Josh,

    As I said, we will agree to disagree…and we disagree substantially here.

  14. Josh the Baptist says:

    Phil disagrees with you too.

  15. Michael says:

    Phil disagrees with the caricature you’ve presented of what I believe…and I do too.

  16. John 20:29,

    The only issue I’m currently working through is moving my sites to a larger server 🙂

  17. @16….I know EXACTLY what you meant Michael…..and caricatures seem to be the theme of the day lol

    Alright, that’s going to do it for me…….again, thank you all for listening to Calvin’s Corner. Thanks also for putting up with me. I am very sorry to have disappointed you all……take care and thanks again!!

  18. #4 – Great insight, Michael

  19. Josh the Baptist says:

    “All I’m saying is what Jesus said…which is that He will lose none who were His.”

    AS to not caricature, and I apologize for having done so, what I am saying is Phil wants us to know that Phil is not His.

    We may want him to be, but Phil doesn’t want to be. Dreaming up fancy scenarios that Phil still is doesn’t bring Phil into the faith.

  20. Michael says:

    Josh,

    I really don’t want to pursue this as you and I have radically different views on the matter.

    There was a long period of time when Phil (and other friends as well) believed they were in the faith.

    They say they’ve changed their minds.

    I respect that and I don’t argue with them.

    I do take my Lord at His word, however…that He will lose none of His own and that he will pursue those who jump the pasture fence.

    Some of you think that they who were once born again have now been voluntarily aborted or were never in the faith in first place.

    I don’t… nor do I have any desire to determine their eternal destiny based on where they are today.

    I love my friends and hope in the grace and love of Jesus…and trust that His word will be truer than theirs.

    Sometimes, love and patience are the greatest tools of “evangelism”…

  21. Josh the Baptist says:

    “Sometimes, love and patience are the greatest tools of “evangelism”…”

    As long as you are doing it 🙂

  22. JoelG says:

    “Sometimes, love and patience are the greatest tools of “evangelism”…”

    Quit making me cry at work 😉

    Thanks Michael!

  23. Michael says:

    Josh,

    I’m just going to be a friend…

  24. Michael says:

    JoelG,

    No crying at work! 🙂

  25. Babylon's Dread says:

    Knowing Christ is not a set of propositions, it is not a relationship to the text of scripture, those things serve us but they do not establish the matter. Knowing Christ is to encounter the living God in the face of Jesus.

    There are many kinds of knowledge. The knowledge of Christ is quite beyond rational discourse though not particularly contrary to it. Like Paul he revealed himself in me. I cannot unknown him by struggling with either his ‘servants’ or the text that presents him. The scriptures reveal Christ but they do not prove him.

    Anyway, this is a very sad day on PP.

  26. Michael says:

    “Knowing Christ is not a set of propositions, it is not a relationship to the text of scripture, those things serve us but they do not establish the matter. Knowing Christ is to encounter the living God in the face of Jesus.”

    Well said, and I agree.

    Sometimes, however, life conspires to present evidence that our faith was in vain…and that begins a process that can take a long time to conclude otherwise.

    My hope for my friends isn’t in whether they know Jesus, but in whether He knows them…

  27. dusty says:

    Phil, (((((hugs)))))

  28. Michael says:

    I find this all incredibly tedious.

    I know so many rat bastards who claim to be “in the faith”…the abusive,the charlatans, and the whores for fame and power…yet no one talks about “evangelizing” them…they’re good to go.

    I take my leave before i expound on this matter even more…

  29. One last thing…..lol

    Jackie Alnor is so full of crap that when she dies the mortician will have an easy job……they will give her an enema and bury her in a shoebox 🙂

    Adios all

  30. Dan from Georgia says:

    I can’t speak for Jackie but sounds like she grabbed into this because it fits her narrative.

    The whole questioning the faith issue in items 1-5…it always bothered me when I used to listen to Focus On The Family and James Dobson would always ask his guests if they ever questioned God in their hardest if times, and the guest would always say “never” – like they were some sort of super Christian and never could admit they were human…I always felt alone and broken somehow that all these super Christians didn’t struggle with the faith.

    And you’re right Michael, we do not know the end of the story of every persons life.

  31. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    I’ve always liked the poem, “The Hound of Heaven” by Francis Thompson (if you’ve not read it, you should!)… that being said, I think CS Lewis made the observation that God is the “Hound of Heaven” not us. He stays after us – you, me and, yes, Phil – even as we run, duck, dodge and swerve. As I’ve gotten older, I found that I love a number of people in very different stages of their journey. I’m also glad to say that the end of the journey is not in my hands… That would be WAY above my pay grade…

    I’ll miss the podcast.

  32. David H says:

    Dan,

    I hear you. We are inundated with a kind of pseudo reality of the Faith. It’s like some folks leave you twisting in the wind. “I never question God” is a pretty pat statement from the church I used to attend. Now, looking back, they were essentially lying.

    I’ve had my struggles with Faith. I still believe in Jesus, but I don’t fit the American Civil Christianity anymore. I walked away as a disgruntled follower. Now, four years later, I’m back at a church. Not really at home in a church, for reasons less about faith, than about the social climate in most churches in our area. My son is very connected at this church, and quite involved. I’ve just become wary of “church folks.”

  33. John 20:29 says:

    Well, i can empathize with Phil on one thing… nothing tries my nice Christian persona more than someone analyzing me. ?. but the swipe at Jackie A ? Was phil john mcenroe’s court decorum coach? Sigh….

    That said, i’m with Pastor Dread @ 26

    Wooden racket em here….

  34. bob1 says:

    #1

    I’m certainly not an Anglican scholar, so anything I say isn’t necessarily accurate…

    But I think it would be a mistake to only ID someone like John Stott as a Calvinist. When in fact, many like him hold to what I would call a moderate form of Calvinism, a la some
    of the folks who teach at Regent College. For example, if you look at his works on
    evangelism, etc., there’s little mention of the man.

    So, you won’t find much of Calvin in Stott’s writings. And I think he was fairly conversant with the various types of Anglicanism, though, of course, he himself IDed as an ‘evangelical’ Anglican. He was a churchman.

    Plus, doesn’t Anglicanism have fairly heavy roots in Calvinism?

    Stott actually wrote a book on the efficacy of infant baptism to persuade fellow
    evangelical Anglicans of that position. Not a Calvinistic view!

  35. Michael says:

    Too much to unpack here and I’m away from my conputer.
    The Reformed practice infant baptism…

  36. UnCCed says:

    Too bad Jackie hasn’t bothered to learn anything about church history or she’d discover MOST of her beliefs came from people who at one time were heretics, at least according to our “advanced” theological positions.
    Just reading the writings of those involved in the deliberations of the deity of Jesus alone is really humbling.
    I feel sorry for her for two things:
    1) Heaven’s not nearly going to be as empty as she seems to think/hopes.
    2) Jesus isn’t nearly lucky to have her input as she wants/thinks. I wouldn’t be surprised if her position in the Kingdom is to be silent. I know that would be a really great 1,000 years!

  37. filbertz says:

    the ‘multitude’ will consist of plenty of those about whom our guesses were wrong.

    the lines God draws are significantly wiser, more precise, and far more insightful than ours.

    respectful acceptance of one’s choice is appropriate. It is not the same as sanction or agreement. Love covers a multitude…

    ‘not keeping one’s eyes on Jesus’ is a sanctimonious load o’ bull sniff that amounts to insult on top of injury.

  38. Duane Arnold says:

    #35 Bob

    I’m certainly not an expert in Calvinism, but I would say that much of Anglican thought has a “tinge of Calvinism” from the era of the Reformation. That being said, Calvinism in Anglicanism tends to be on a scale of 1 – 10. J.I. Packer would be an 8 or 9. Michael Ramsey would be 2 or 3. Stott might be a 5 or 6. Yet, none of this defines them as Anglicans. My old friend, James Atkinson, was Lutheran in his doctrine through and through, but he was an Anglican. John Wesley had Arminian tendencies…

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that it is not where exactly you are on the scale of of a doctrinal system that defines you as an Anglican. It is rather the acceptance of the Creeds, assent to the 39 Articles (which are very broad) and having Episcopal government within the Church. Stott preferred to to simply be known as an “Evangelical” Anglican, yet still in fellowship with others who were Anglo-Catholics.

    Does this help?

  39. Duane Arnold says:

    #39 Addendum

    AND… the worship and guidance of the Book of Common Prayer!!!

    (If I forgot that, Michael would be coming after me with a lethal weapon…) 🙂

  40. Dan from Georgia says:

    David H, thanks for your response of being able to relate! I appreciate it very much! I’d like to respond more when I’m able to get to a computer instead of plucking away like a chicken on this iPhone keyboard!

    Now off to the gym to blast my quads!! Can’t wait to get my Blue Murder T-shirt and show it off at the gym…ha!

  41. Corbachev says:

    2. To pretend that stories such as the ones about Job and the Flood are not difficult to parse in light of the love of God is as strange as the stories themselves…

    I think that depends on what one means by “the love of God” and with which things that conflicts in these accounts.

    Speaking to the flood, if I use John 3:16-17 as a definition of the love of God and it potentially conflicting with the idea that only 8 people were saved and the rest of humanity died in judgment, John actually helps me make sense of it. One way of salvation, relatively few will take it.

    I realize you know that. So perhaps its a matter of “emotional wiring.” People are wired differently and process things differently. I can be pragmatic to a fault. I care about how people feel, but its usually last on the of my list of considerations. So I can see how someone might say it’s strange to say that its not difficult to parse such passages. I, personally, don’t find it difficult at least in the flood case. Again, for me, having gone through and continuing to go through my own challenges, I have to let faith in God’s love for me rule over my feelings of the apparent-lack-thereof. Because His love for me is not demonstrated in my #blessedlife. It’s demonstrated in that while I was still a sinner, Christ died for me.

  42. Nathan Priddis says:

    2. Well, I’m not thinking so much about the Flood in this comment as much as I’m thinking of Job. But there was a moment when it made a lot of sense.
    In the early 2000’s, I was laying in bed sick. Permanently. I had read the Psalms a lot, and since I was in the neighborhood, I just wondered over to Job. Its sort of sand in the Systematic Theology gearbox, and that may be the problem. It just contradicts the typical Sunday AM message.
    Reading what Job says, and realizing you have thought the same things, was an eye opener. It came down to the ambience of the moment that helped with comprehension.

  43. JoelG says:

    #31

    Here’s a quote from Brennan Manning that is a bit more realistic about the Christian faith, if we’re honest:

    “When I get honest, I admit I am a bundle of paradoxes. I believe and I doubt, I hope and get discouraged, I love and I hate, I feel bad about feeling good, I feel guilty about not feeling guilty. I am trusting and suspicious. I am honest and I still play games. Aristotle said I am a rational animal; I say I am an angel with an incredible capacity for beer.
    To live by grace means to acknowledge my whole life story, the light side and the dark. In admitting my shadow side I learn who I am and what God’s grace means. As Thomas Merton put it, “A saint is not someone who is good but who experiences the goodness of God.”

    The gospel of grace nullifies our adulation of televangelists, charismatic superstars, and local church heroes. It obliterates the two-class citizenship theory operative in many American churches. For grace proclaims the awesome truth that all is gift. All that is good is ours not by right but by the sheer bounty of a gracious God. While there is much we may have earned–our degree and our salary, our home and garden, a Miller Lite and a good night’s sleep–all this is possible only because we have been given so much: life itself, eyes to see and hands to touch, a mind to shape ideas, and a heart to beat with love. We have been given God in our souls and Christ in our flesh. We have the power to believe where others deny, to hope where others despair, to love where others hurt. This and so much more is sheer gift; it is not reward for our faithfulness, our generous disposition, or our heroic life of prayer. Even our fidelity is a gift, “If we but turn to God,” said St. Augustine, “that itself is a gift of God.”

    My deepest awareness of myself is that I am deeply loved by Jesus Christ and I have done nothing to earn it or deserve it.”

  44. Josh the Baptist says:

    I just can’t do it man. I can’t hold my friends hand and walk them away from the faith. I will fight to win them. It is the only thing that matters to me.

  45. Michael says:

    Josh,

    I find # 45 deeply offensive…as if it doesn’t matter to me.

    What do you propose I do?

    Chastise them daily?
    Threaten them with hell every chance I get?
    Perhaps the four spiritual laws snuck into text messages?

    Loving people where they are is the roughest combat I can wage …

  46. Josh the Baptist says:

    Michael, I hope it does bother you. Me too. Wage that combat, man. I don’t have a better way, but this is one of those things I’ll never sugar coat.

  47. Captain Kevin says:

    #’s 2, 3 and 4, those stories are difficult to reconcile…
    I’ve considered leaving more times than I can recount.
    Going through some disappointment right now. Lord, you showed me the beauty of this mountain then kicked me off a cliff into the valley below. Why?

  48. bob1 says:

    #39

    Yes, Dr. Duane, very helpful. Thank you!

    What I’ve always appreciated about Stott is that he was the consummate churchman. Even though he IDed as evangelical, he wasn’t a showboat. he was also, in my understanding, very faithful to the 39 Articles and the Book of Common Prayer. He got into a quite public debate with Martyn Lloyd-Jones over Anglicanism, with the latter convinced Stott was a fool to stay in the Anglican church.

  49. CM says:

    Just my observation here,

    I have noticed that Jackie is more concerned with the dreaded Calvinist (or alternative “high-church” or confessional person) bogeyman that the abuse, sin, and general Biblical unfitness of CC pastors of the “Old Guard (including the pastoral disqualifications of Chuck Smith).

    It seems that being a Calvinist, Lutheran, Anglican, a paedo-baptist, or amillienial is more worthy of hell-fire from Jackie than the dealing with the problems in her own tribe.

  50. filbertz says:

    too often we make our efforts with ‘the tried and true’ as though one size fits all, instead of prayerfully waiting for further orders. I don’t throw the pork tenderloin on the grill when it needs to marinate forty-eight hours in equal parts soy, canola, and shredded ginger. We plunge ahead as though the tenderloin is a hotdog. Praying is the best way to mark time.

    mixedmetaphorsfil

  51. I have some friends who have walked away from the faith, a few quite adamantly. I know they understand the message of the Gospel, so I don’t feel the need to spend a lot of time repeating what they are already aware of. Most of my energy goes into loving them, praying for them and trying to provide an authentic example of what the gospel looks like in real life. They are my friends, although the relationship can be challenging.

  52. filbertz says:

    there is such a range of ‘walking away’ that simply asking open-ended questions can clarify. Since my wife and I walked away from regular attendance at a church, many have assumed we are apostate. Yet, they won’t approach me and ask a simple clarifying question. People outside the walls are among the most open, frank, and clear-thinking people I have met, and are often as full of faith and vibrancy as anyone within. Caring enough to ask, not confront or correct, is a great step.

    Piney, your model is solid, from my point of view.

  53. All in all, this was a solid “things I think.” I resonated deeply with every point.

  54. JoelG says:

    Those are some insightful comments, filbertz and PH.

    I tend to forget that Christ loves the ones we love more than we do. The best we can do is commit them to His care. I’ve heard it said that sometimes it’s better to talk to God about people than to people about God. He knows each person is unique and I believe He will bring everyone home who wants to be with Him, eventually. I know this isn’t orthodox thinking. But my gut tells me so. ?

  55. Stephen says:

    Michael,

    I could not agree more about #5

  56. Jim says:

    “All I’m saying is what Jesus said…which is that He will lose none who were His.

    I believe in the amazing grace and love of God that overcomes all our sins and failures and I refuse with violence to condemn someone in the middle of a long process.

    I respect Phil’s choice and take him at his word…but I take Jesus at His too…”

    Yes!

  57. Dan from Georgia says:

    David H (#32),

    I can relate. I have a hard time going to church because most churches down here are off-kilter (want money for miracles, KJV-only, WAAAY to conservative, weak, using church-growth methods abandoned by most churches last decade, to name a few), and I too am really leery and overly cautious around evangelicals, especially the evangelical “nice guys.” Wife and I go to church irregularly, and it doesn’t do well for our spirit, growth, and fellowship. But we still love Jesus. I just HATE feeling like I have to pretend and put on some kind of show so that I appear to have it all together as a Christian.

  58. Jerod says:

    #1 was a waste of time. Jackie doesn’t need permission. Phil made a public statement meant for public consumption and realizes, I’m sure, that many people are getting his facts wrong as they respond to his announcement. But Jackie is a bigger name and has been here a long time.

    Phil’s not a Christian for reasons neither he, Michael, nor Jackie will ever realize, so nobody has their facts straight, especially Phil. If he did, he’d still be a Christian. Using this thread to bash Jackie is pretty hypocritical.

    Josh is right. Evangelism is what we are commanded to do. The bible says so. Of course, like Andy Stanley, you can pretend it away and fashion your own explanation.

    Matthew 25 is not social gospel, imo. Whomever we think he means by “the least of these” are not those whose plights we post up on Twitter or aggrandise ourselves with, either purposefully or inadvertently. That distinction of “the least of these”, I bet, changes with the leading of the Holy Spirit.

  59. JM says:

    Extraordinary post, Michael. Extraordinary responses. REALLY liked #50 by CM. Highlights the blindness and hypocrisy that pervades a lot of “watchdog” ministries that continue to use CC as an example of moral goodness or perfect teaching. These people need a prescription for a better moral lens. Theirs are cloudy.

    I Have been away and am trying to catch up. Before commenting more, I just wish to acknowledge I also saw an older post about you being in the hospital, Michael. We, here, offer our condolences for what you have been through and our prayers. We Really hope you are better. So sorry this is well after the fact.

    Sadness and prayers also for Phil. This is not a small thing. One cannot help but grieve.

    Another point that was made here was if any of us were ever tempted to “walk away”. That struck me hard because when I asked myself that question–what I came up with was interesting even to me.

    From the time I was a baby Christian in the busy-ness of the waning Jesus Revolution, I had to deal with coming out of isolation, poverty, extreme immorality (including rapes), terrible sickness and seizures, having my life threatened by a family member who was badly influenced by their cult. Strangely, that’s not when I questioned my faith.

    I escaped all the above even to suffering temporary homelessness, hoping to land in a place that I had only heard about where a Christian could worship in freedom and joy. In my isolation, I read the Bible and knew what was required of pastors and how people should regard each other in fellowship. That’s what I was expecting. In reality, what I found bore no resemblance to what I read– abusive pastors, immorality of all kinds in both leadership and laity–even stalkers, people complaining about not getting what they wanted and calling it suffering, no church financial accounting that was open to the people (one pastor essentially embezzled with immunity because of Moses Model), no “helps program” for the truly needy in the congregations, secretive meetings among leadership, church “spin offs” that were really splits, heavy handed interference by the “Mother Church” even though it was supposed to be a loose association, not to mention slander and character assassinations of those that simply asked questions, etc., etc., etc.

    That’s when I hit bottom. That was when I questioned my faith. Sadly, when I thought of how good it would be to die and escape all my trouble, my hope was maintained because I thought that everything would be better once I could get to church and experience the support of a fellowship. Well, I went to four reputedly “perfect” churches–including the Mother Church–and couldn’t even find the “scent of water” in any of them. At that time, I was so indoctrinated, I had to journey through a few of their churches before I saw that the problems were systemic. What a degeneration from any Biblical ideal. The blindness that was thick around me meant so many could not see that it had became a cult around a man’s personality and nothing else. Once I saw that–I was actually okay. The truth set me free.

    The moral filth that was underneath it all was covered up and God did not approve of it. The fact that it was still standing was not proof of rightness any more than it would be true of Latter Day theology because the growing number of Mormon Temples that were going up. Knowing the truth gave me the freedom to protest any and all of the lies without worry that I was somehow going against “God” or “His Anointed”. It did not mean a lack of push back and suffering for me, but I was still free where it counted. Coming from a background with cult influence always in the shadows ready to constrict your very mind, and then finally being free to think unfettered and in a non-PC fashion was wonderful. It is still a great gift in my book. Resolving who God is–and who He isn’t—can give one real liberty.

  60. Michael says:

    CM,

    Thank you as always for the kind words and prayers…

  61. Jerod says:

    Phil,
    Would you say that Jesus’s parable of the sower and the four types of soil could apply here? I don’t think we are destined to remain static in one type.
    So, was good soul left unattended? Did the sun get too high, and did you find yourself with no root? Or was it thorns, both?

    Listening to you and Michael was one of the ways God opened my mind to finding validity and preciousness in other expressions of the faith.

    I don’t know you so I can’t say that I’m particularly heartbroken to see you leave the faith. But what is sad is to know that should you die tomorrow I will never be able to meet you in heaven and say 🙂 thanks brother :-). I think I can speak for God when I say that he is heartbroken. Hence my question about the soils; what do you think Jesus meant for you?

  62. Jerod says:

    Phil,
    Would you say that Jesus’s parable of the sower and the four types of soil could apply here? I don’t think we are destined to remain static in one type.
    So, was good soil left unattended? Did the sun get too high, and did you find yourself with no root? Or was it thorns, both?

    Listening to you and Michael was one of the ways God opened my mind to finding validity and preciousness in other expressions of the faith.

    I don’t know you so I can’t say that I’m particularly heartbroken to see you leave the faith. But what is sad is to know that should you die tomorrow I will never be able to meet you in heaven and say 🙂 thanks brother :-). I think I can speak for God when I say that he is heartbroken. Hence my question about the soils; what do you think Jesus meant for you?

  63. John 20:29 says:

    since the non believer feels comfortable in asserting their reason for denying God, here an excerpt from a book promo by a non believer who is not convinced that there is no god, but on the other hand – David Berlinski has the bona fides to move in almost any intellectual circle if he so chose – look him up, if interested

    “A secular Jew, Berlinski nonetheless delivers a biting defense of religious thought. An acclaimed author who has spent his career writing about mathematics and the sciences, he turns the scientific community’s cherished skepticism back on itself, daring to ask and answer some rather embarrassing questions:

    Has anyone provided a proof of God’s inexistence? Not even close.

    Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here? Not even close.

    Have the sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life? Not even close.

    Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought? Close enough.

    Has rationalism in moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral? Not close enough.

    Has secularism in the terrible twentieth century been a force for good? Not even close to being close.

    Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy of thought and opinion within the sciences? Close enough.

    Does anything in the sciences or in their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational? Not even ballpark.

    Is scientific atheism a frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt? Dead on.

    Berlinski does not dismiss the achievements of western science. The great physical theories, he observes, are among the treasures of the human race. But they do nothing to answer the questions that religion asks, and they fail to offer a coherent description of the cosmos or the methods by which it might be investigated.”

    just sayin … again

  64. ( |o )====::: says:

    The insufferably, endlessly relentless Jackie Alnor continues her journey, passing her gas all the while.

    Step by step…
    “Poot!” by “Poot!”

    Perhaps some day someone will tell her it’s bad form and off-putting to the rest of us

  65. Sylvia says:

    I have noticed that other people have sometimes a special burst of compassion and love for a friend when he leaves the faith. I’m not quite like that. Though I am convicted to act with compassion and love, my foremost feeling is “I thought we both loved Jesus most of all! I thought we had the same best friend, now you don’t love Him anymore. Of course everything has changed!” There’s a coldness to it, but I think it’s valid on its own level.
    I think I’m glad that both of those responses exist in the body of Christ. We don’t ever know another person’s heart, so our emotions are processing the outward as best they can. We just gotta keep acting like Christians. Practical outworkings aside, I’d like to see those of us who are in the faith appreciating one another in this regard.
    Sorry to butt in.

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