Things I Think…

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72 Responses

  1. Xenia says:

    When a person cares more about the 4-week embryo in the womb than they care about the 4-year old in the pen on the border, they are not pro-life, they are just anti-abortion.

    And while I’m on the subject, for those of you who consider abortion to be the murder of children… what the Aitch EEE Double Toothpicks are you doing sitting at home? If you REALLY thought children were being murdered in your town, wouldn’t you gather a posse and raid the slaughter house and save those children from being murdered? If I though my neighbor was murdering 4-year olds across the street, I would risk everything to bring those kids to safety. But most anti-abortion advocated don’t do this. Therefore, I conclude that EITHER they are the most craven of cowards OR they don’t really believe abortion is murder.

  2. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    I amen your first sentence…I do not comprehend how a life isn’t a life…

  3. JoelG says:

    Good thoughts to soak up Michael. There’s a ton here. Thank you.

  4. Michael says:

    JoelG,

    Thank you…I never know if I’m thinking or babbling…sometimes I do both…

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    As you know, a Hispanic lawyer friend of mine from LA has been working on the border in Texas seeking to offer help to those who have had their children taken from them. Of his clients, 9 out of 10 are evangelicals…

  6. Michael says:

    Duane,

    God bless your friend…it seems we need to choose which kingdom we will serve…

  7. bob1 says:

    #8

    I think it’s Confucius who’s credited with a similar saying:

    When you’re out for revenge, dig two graves.

  8. Kevin H says:

    “We now judge information based on whether it “leans” right or left rather than discerning whether it is “true”… thus, we make all truth subjective and believe many lies…”

    I just popped in briefly at Facebook and saw a meme had been posted by two family members that was quoting some really ridiculous statements from some top Democratic politicians. One of the family members also added how scary the quotes are and how people who think like that don’t belong in our country.

    …..Turns out the quotes came straight from the Babylon Bee. Of course, the meme gave no attribution to the Bee and made the stand alone quotes to look real.

    Before I had even seen in the comments of one of the postings that the quotes came from the Babylon Bee, my BS detector had gone off and did not think the quotes were believable or realistic. I wasn’t even going to waste my time trying to look them up because they appeared to be so obviously fake, even though they were being presented as real.

    Both of the these family members are educated people who love the Lord and are faithful Christians. And yet, they fall for this type of stuff and even pass on what amounts to be preposterous slander. Seemingly and wholly, because the “other side” has been so badly demonized that it is now easy to automatically believe anything bad about them. Additionally, they seemingly feel the need to help spread the word of such. This is far from the first time I have seen things like this from these two, although this may have been the most foolish episode.

    And I point this out because this type of behavior is all the more becoming the norm all around us, and not the exception to the rule. We are in a bad place in this country.

  9. Kevin H says:

    I just checked back to the original source from where they had shared the meme. It’s been shared over 5,000 times from that original source in less than 20 hours. And who knows how many times it’s been re-shared from those original shares. We’ve got a sickness.

  10. Em says:

    we’ve got a sickness, indeed… but, as i look around it is infesting folks from every viewpoint… i can’t tell you how disturbing this maniacal group tantrum looks to me (guess i don’t have to 🙂 ) … tantrums almost always break something- as do mobs

    i listened to Mother Angelica this a.m. give her opinion on abortion back in the year 2000 – of course she condemned it unequivocally … but she added something that brings my mind back to consider just how much of human behavior we can legislate … she noted that God gave us free will, that it is His intended design and it is up to each us to use it correctly … she did of course add that this, too, is a sin that can be forgiven (her way of asking for forgiveness differs from mine, but the principle is the same)

  11. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia,
    How can I be nice with this? Your moral equivilence of a 4 yr old being temporally detained in a facility (even if unjustly) – even 2,000 of them – compared with 60 million abortion deaths is just immoral BS on your part.
    The kids on the border are being cared for and will be released with their parents to run free in the US while 200,000 aborted human beings will be run down the garbage disposal in this same time period.
    Anyone who nodded their head in agreement with you suggestion should be shamed.
    If you really thought there was danger to those kids, you should be down on the border planning rescue raids.

  12. Michael says:

    MLD,

    The BS is entirely on your side.
    We now have 3 year olds representing themselves in court.
    Many of the families are not reunited.
    Our country helped create these problems as has been well documented elsewhere.

    The moral equilivance is very simple…life.
    Many of those we send back will now be killed as surely as the Jews we turned away from our shores in the 40’s.
    Either all human life matters or none of it does…

  13. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    We are in a mess…one that panders to the worst of our natures and can only lead to destruction.

    The church has to take the lead in trying to bring some honesty and reconciliation back to the country.

  14. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Not a single one of the 4,000 aborted this very day July 2nd 2018 had legal representation.

  15. Michael says:

    MLD,

    Abortion is wicked.
    So is separating children from their parents and sending people home to die.

    See, I’m actually pro-life…

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am too. I think we should keep those who are in actual danger. But that does not include everyone – so this is why they are detained, to sort them out.

    To use Xenia’s moral equivilence tactic on you; if you just say abortion is wicked and not personally do something about that is wicked also.
    Did you march for the border families over the weekend or just send best wishes? We are all limited in time and energy for ’causes’.

  17. Michael says:

    MLD,

    Most of them are in danger…that’s why parents send their kids through hell to get here.

    There are many evils in this world…we can’t possibly dedicate ourselves fully to every cause.

    What we can do is support, encourage, and affirm people where they are called.

    I’ve probably talked to more people for more years on the immigration issues than all of those protesting in my town have taken together and multiplied by 100.

    Now as to Xenias piece on if we really thought abortion was murder we’d be much more extreme in our reactions…I’ve thought that for years…it is a place of cognitive dissonance.

  18. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael,
    I agree about how we should treat the “cognitive dissonance” it is tough, but her plea was that since we really don’t believe it is murder, we should move our activity to the border.
    Unless she was blogging from outside a detention center, I don’t believe her.

  19. Cori says:

    My job is to accompany many of these kids at the high school. I love these kids. Many are not educated at all. Some are go-getters and love to learn and others not so much. Most have been sent alone to cross the border with their coyote escorts. They have had to stay in the camp and didn’t mind the camp at all. They eat well, play video games, and sleep in a clean bed. Once they do their time ( I think 90 days), they are sent to a host ( someone they call their aunt or uncle but I get the feeling they are not related). I have one student that came straight out of the sex trade. He is 17 but looks like he is 12. He doesn’t speak English, nor Spanish. He is indigenous from Guatemala. They trust me and, in my eyes, they are here legally because Obama permitted them to come. What worries me is who they are placed with once they get here. Most of the young men work before and after school. Some have confided that their host treats them poorly. Granted, these are teens and teens complain, no matter where they are from. The girls seem to be better off then the young men. The young men seem to be burdened a lot. Most of my male students quit school because someone in Ohio is recruiting them to work. They tell me this but do not give me details as to what they will be doing. We do have laws and they are not being considered. Laws will protect us. We need to change things, give amnesty to the kids that are here, but enforce laws so this doesn’t keep happening. These are consequences to failed policy and lack of law enforcement. I also work with the kids from Syria but that’s a whole different story. I don’t care if they are from Timbuktu, I will love them. But laws for the sake of structure and order would help so much. I know that is an understatement but the problem is so convoluted.Sorry for the long post.

  20. Michael says:

    Cori,

    Thank you for the long post. 🙂

    We are always glad to hear perspectives from the front lines…

  21. Linnea says:

    Don’t find myself agreeing with MLD much, but do agree with his logic in #11. I think we all need to examine our hearts and see how much moralizing we do without backing up our judgments. There is so much injustice everywhere that it is disheartening to see one cause stacked up against another in a way that demeans others. We are all parts of Christ’s body. Some of us are called to deal with abortion, some with heresy, some with border issues and hospitality, others with prayer and supplication, and still others with prophecy and the building up of the body of Christ. Why do we think what we are called to do is what all should be called to do? It’s minimizing the Body of Christ and gives Jesus a bad name. It’s divisive.

  22. Michael says:

    Linnea,

    That was exactly the point I was trying to make in the article.
    All of these issues compete for our attention and to be really invested takes a sacrifice of time.
    There’s no way to be invested in all of them.

    I know my callings…and I know my callings may not be yours.

    My job is to affirm each in their own works…wherever people are moving with compassion, I want to affirm that.

  23. David says:

    John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed

    If you’re not continuing in the Bible, you’re not a disciple of Jesus Christ, no matter what else you do.

    And the “dark night of the soul” is unbiblical. Disciples don’t go through such nonsense. Only unbelievers that think they’re “christians” would go through such silliness.

  24. Michael says:

    David,

    I worship God, not a book.
    As I’m just barely peeping out of a dark night of the soul because Christ has held me, I think you are both wrong and cruel.

    Really, you should be ashamed, but you think you’re holy.

  25. Em says:

    I am wading in Xenia’s turf here, but…
    When did the conquistadores hit the shores of the New World? Early 1500s? They found a civilization or more than one that were steeped in idol worship… some to the point of human sacrifice. The Spanish came to take over and they brought Priests with them to “save” the natives… some good was done… Christ became known to a new land…. after a fashion, perhaps… but mostly Europe saw these new lands as worlds to conquer, did they not? Correct me, if my impression is incorrect, but hasn’t Central America been exploited and in turmoil for centuries?
    Sometimes it feels like the United States’ struggle to live up to the ideals of our founders (most of them) isn’t possible in this crippled fallen world….. So….
    My question is, putting Faith into action to solve the present chaos…? how do we do that?
    I think, if they are well treated, being separated from parents while things are sorted out is not the worst thing that could happen by far…
    Perhaps our job should be to keep this tangled bureaucracy’s feet to the fire, so that they don’t lose anyone? I say that because, realistically, i don’t think the ache in our hearts and the confusion in our heads are able to achieve a good outcome.
    We need a King, but only God qualifies…

  26. Duane Arnold says:

    The dark night of the soul is real to anyone who has struggled with faith in this world. Our one certainty is God… and God alone. The cruelty of those who see their faith as all butterflies and rainbows while condemning others is beyond my understanding….

  27. Michael says:

    Em,

    The U.S. interventions in Central American governments are well known.
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvnyzq/central-america-atrocities-caused-immigration-crisis

    There are more scholarly articles online as well as books detailing the Reagan administration selling crack to finance their mess.

    Here’s what my faith requires of me.

    That I care about the human condition regardless of borders and that I seek ways to overcome suffering and oppression where I’m able.

    It also demands that I refuse to make political pawns of those who are suffering and oppressed.

    There are no political solutions probable, though they exist.
    Both sides have made this an issue to create division and I don’t think either side politically gives a hoot in hell about the human carnage.

    So I’ll keep speaking to what I can and pray that real leaders arise from the muck of today to lead tomorrow.

  28. Linnea says:

    Michael…more power to you for using your platform to do what God’s called you to do.

    I just rankle at either/or prospects. If we believe God’s resources are unlimited, we should also believe that He will equip each and every one to take up the banner of something He’s put on one’s heart. Those banners will differ, but they each show a facet in the gem of His spirit. That’s my take on it, for what it’s worth…

  29. Michael says:

    Linnea,

    I completely concur with #28…

  30. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    When someone goes through this dark night of the soul, are the only options atheism,agnostism or Christianity? Does anyone come out a Hindu or a Buddhist?

  31. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I suppose that’s possible.

  32. Duane Arnold says:

    #30

    It’s the Cross…

  33. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael & Duane,
    I am probably unfamiliar with the concept. Is this a Christian thing and you fight off losing your faith and either come out an atheist, agnostic or with a renewed faith?

    Or can anyone go through it? Does the atheist go through this? A Muslim? Or is it just Christians? Has someone written on this? Been a Christian 36 yrs, never heard of it.

  34. Michael says:

    MLD,

    It was originally a poem by St.John of the Cross.
    It has come to be a term used to describe a time of deep emotional and spiritual darkness.

  35. Michael says:

    “Has someone written on this?”

    Thousands of people for 500 years…

  36. Em says:

    #27 – it wasn’t my intention to leave the U.S. out of the scenario… rather to point out that Central America, as far as i know, has always suffered as it is now – making me wonder if today’s trouble is a solvable in this world’s economy

    #28 – good food for thought. 😶

  37. Steve says:

    I have to agree with MLD on the abortion issue. Its important to a Christian because our Lord and savior Jesus was once a 4-week embryo and Xenia’s comments in #1 are very sad because just think if Jesus was one of those 4000 aborted today alone, where would that leave any of us?

  38. Ike says:

    The “dark night of the soul” was first pointed out to me by a pastor when life wasn’t going the way I thought it should.

    He had me read Richard Foster’s Celebration of Discipline book.
    The chapter on solitude and the explanation of the dark night showed me I wasn’t crazy!

    At 22 I thought if I did everything right life would be happy! happy! joy! joy!

    I was never taught in church what dying to self was and it is painful!

    But God’s purpose for my life is always much better than how I think HE should do it.

    Ike

  39. Michael says:

    Ike,

    Amen and amen…

  40. Dan from Georgia says:

    #7. Mercy is the default position of the Christian heart.

    Agreed. I wish those on twitter and Facebook would take heed. I wish I would too.

  41. Xenia says:

    FYI, I believe abortion is a grievous sin.

    I have participated in anti-abortion marches and was a volunteer for many years for the local Crisis Pregnancy Center. I was phone counselor and was awakened in the middle of the night by desperate women. I am very anti-abortion.

    My points:

    1. If you really think abortion is murder, you should take action because I don’t think anyone here would stand by and allow their neighbor to regularly murder toddlers in his basement. If you are using the word “murder” as a rhetorical flourish, drop it. If you are sincere in its use, maybe it’s time to up your game.

    2. Have respect for other pro-life issues. Don’t be dismissive of people who work for other pro-life causes other than abortion.

  42. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia, what is the grievous sin being committed if not murder? The fact that this murder has been legalized just complicates the matter, as the only remedy is to commit non legalized murder for immediate relief.

    But where I initially disagreed with you was your point that if one does not agree with you on the border issue, then you impose on them that they are no longer ‘pro life’
    but demoted to a lower rung of just anti abortion.
    This is so similar to what Rachel Held wrote this week, that pro life people are racists. Similarly silly.
    I am pro life, I am anti abortion, anti war and anti death penalty – and I will not allow my views to be diminished because I don’t fall into someone else’ position on the border.

  43. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    And one other thing, not directed to Xenia, but the border issue is temporary – or at least could be. If Trump is the bad guy he can be voted out of office. If Kamala Harris is elected president, by fiat she can order everyone release from detention, disband ICE and let everyone run off in to the wind.
    But not so when advocating for the individual unborn victim run down the garbage disposal.

  44. Steve says:

    Xenia @ 41 said:
    “If you are using the word “murder” as a rhetorical flourish, drop it.”
    ____________________________________________________________________
    Are you telling Jesus to drop it as well? Jesus said if you even have hate for a brother or sister its “murder”. In your own understanding of moral equivalence, I think abortion is a a lot worse than simply hating someone. I guess your argument is with Jesus and not me.

  45. Michael says:

    It’s not a position “on the border”.

    It’s a position about what to do with human beings fleeing poverty and violence…literally running for their lives.

  46. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well I guess we could keep trying to trump each other’s examples.
    My taxes are paying to shelter and care for how many thousands of fleeing immigrants today. All tax payingAmericans are supporting the refugees financially – see, we care and we are doing something. Everyone being detained is being cared for.

    4,000 unborn babies killed (see, I don’t need to offend others here using the word murder) yesterday alone. Another 4,000 will be killed on Thursday (I am assuming that even the killers of unborn babies will take off on the 4th.
    So what are we doing about that?

  47. Michael says:

    I’m weary of this to the point of anger.

    The church is more mobilized and active on the issue of abortion than on anything else in my lifetime.

    My concern for refugees and migrants doesn’t have anything to do with the issue of abortion other than it being an extension of my own biblical ethics and being “pro-life”.

    The issue of migrations and people fleeing poverty and violence is the issue that we will all have to deal with and will be the issue that most greatly affects our children and grandchildren.

    We can choose to b deal with it soberly and legislate wisely and compassionately or we can be flippant and coarse until the problem really does overwhelm us.

    There are many complex threads (including taxation) that need to be addressed, but this sort of discourse gets us nowhere.

  48. Em says:

    Pontification alert… feel free to bypass the followig… 😶
    Sigh… At least there are no pollyannas here… It would be hard to deny there is a problem…. set aside the drug and child trafficking and there is still a problem to be solved and its name is chaos. The accomplishments of Western Civilization as we know it today were achieved under the various banners of the Christian faith. They were achieved smack in the middle of Satan’s baileywick. If you don’t believe that, there goes my premise, i guess. But i see this as a naturally entropic world today.
    Of course we dont want the law and order of the worlds of Stalin, Hitler or Ayatollah Khomeini. So?
    So, how do we get these good people across our southern border in an orderly and legal fashion? Assimilated into the economy of the nation productively?
    Christian mercies and charity as so many point out here cries out rescue…. Who is my neighbor is a good question… Another question that i would ask is, have you ever tried to rescue someone who is drowning? Our nation needs wisdom and a plan or we’ll all drown in the chaos… and, since our God is a God of order and not confusion, i don’t think the principle of the good Samaritan is our solution here either. We are looking at tens of thousands of souls. Lets not be finger pointing … We dont follow king tut-tut. This problem is the making of the kingdoms of this world. It may well provide us opportunities to live our Faith… perhaps in ways we don’t always recognize?
    Too long and drawn out here. I’ll stop with this – give the families guest worker visas carrying the privilege of living and working in the U.S.
    The unaccompanied children is another problem altogether AND is fraught with risks for the children and the nation.

    Folks, if i may, this is not a problem that can be solved by simple Christian charity …
    Probably shouldn’t hit submit without an edit, but…

  49. Xenia says:

    I have been around charitable organizations in the area for decades. I see what groups of Christians participate and what groups don’t show up. I have been part of a woman’s ministry that thought feeding the poor was “salvation by works.” I know what kinds of lives are valued and what kinds of lives are dismissed and I know the Scriptures that are used to justify these attitudes.

    Steve, you have not understood one word I have written. However, you mean well and you care about unborn children so I commend you. God bless you.

  50. Steve says:

    Xenia,
    I know you mean well too. And I know you care tremendously about the sojourner and immigrant and I commend you for that. God bless you as well.

  51. Xenia says:

    MLD asks (rightly): So what are we doing about that?

    Here’s the thing. This isn’t Communist China. No one is forced to have an abortion.*

    A better question to ask is this: What has happened in our society that so many women get pregnant who do not wish to be mothers?

    That’s a whole lot of unmarried sex going on, folks. This immorality is the root cause of the abortion problem. From my time as a counselor I can tell you that most women seeking abortion are not married.

    Do you watch movies? TV? Listen to music on the radio? The media is Satan’s propaganda tool that tells girls all day every day that sex before marriage is normal and even virtuous. If you support Hollywood, you are part of the problem. If you play music that’s all about fornication (and from what I can remember, it is all about fornication) then you are part of the problem. You (we) are part of the degeneration of our culture that encourages pre-marital sex and this will lead to abortion. We want to cut off the fruit but we enjoy the roots too much to get out the shovel. To turn off the TV and refuse to listen to popular music, that’s too much to ask.

    The Catholics predicted this when birth control became widely available. Who here wants’ to address that? You might even say birth control is the gateway drug for abortion. It’s all about not being willing to accept children. The methods just got harsher.

    *Note: Some women in America *are* forced to have abortions by the men in their lives. Almost every women I counseled said they would be happy to keep the baby except some man- usually the boyfriend, baby’s father or the woman’s father- was intimidating them. They were scared of losing the lover, being kicked out of the house, etc. But it is possible to stand up to these terrible men and with the help of your local CPC, many women can. And have.

  52. bob1 says:

    #23

    Job’s comforters have nothing on you…

    Who hasn’t felt that God was very far from them, at some point in their Xn lives?

    I have…

  53. Steve says:

    Xenia, said “The Catholics predicted this when birth control became widely available. Who here wants’ to address that? You might even say birth control is the gateway drug for abortion. It’s all about not being willing to accept children. The methods just got harsher.”
    ____________________________________________________________________

    Xenia, you should stick with immigration issues because you keep digging a hole for yourself. Catholics have been completely wrong about birth control and to equate it with taking of a life is rather bizarre to me.

    The emerging science in fertility is about to explode. I have seen research going on now with artificial wombs where the mother doesn’t need to carry the baby any longer herself. I predict this will completely change the abortion debate when this technology becomes mainstream with humans. They are doing it with other mammals now.

  54. Michael says:

    Steve,
    Xenia is my dear friend and a wise and godly person.
    Speak with respect to her if you choose to speak.
    Period.

  55. Steve says:

    Michael, I highly respect Xenia and I don’t believe I said anything disrespectful at all to her. If I have, I apologize to you and her. I hope I am able to challenge her though on the abortion issue that she raised herself at #1 and is continuing to address throughout her comments. We are both in agreement to the grievous sin abortion is but apparently have widely differing views on why.

  56. Xenia says:

    Steve, set aside what I said about the Catholics view of life. Half of them don’t believe it anymore, either. (I believe it, though.)

    What about the effect the entertainment industry has had on our culture? Do you feel any responsibility for supporting (assuming you do, maybe you don’t) movies, TV shows and music that encourages fornication? Fornication that often results in abortion?

    We don’t want to take any responsibility for abortion but it didn’t just appear in a vacuum. Plenty of “It’s just a movie, it’s just clothes, let’s not be legalistic about music” had to happen first. And we all participated in that, me included. We degraded our own culture, told kids that it didn’t matter what they wore or listened to, let our daughters go out on the town and stay out all hours because we were afraid we’d lose their affection if we didn’t…. This is all on US.

  57. Xenia says:

    Steve, I believe abortion is a terrible sin. I would outlaw it if I could but that will not change the hearts of people who have been sold the lie that there can be sex without consequences. The pro-fornication propaganda has been around for decades and I don’t see it going away anytime soon. Fornication —> abortions, very often. Why support an industry that promotes the very thing that causes a large % of abortions?

    Cut down the whole noxious weed, not the the rotten fruit.

  58. Xenia says:

    *not just the rotten fruit, I meant to say.

  59. Xenia says:

    Steve, no apology necessary.

    I am being provocative today, I know.

  60. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I plead guilty. – I took the grandkids to see Incredibles 2 last week. 🙂

  61. Xenia says:

    Next time take them for a hike. 🙂

  62. Steve says:

    Xenia,

    I am no fan of Hollywood or the entertainment business and with a 2 year old daughter at home these things are definitely on my mind as I try to raise her in godliness. You have a good point about our culture but I’m not connecting the dots that fornication in itself leads to abortion. I’m not sure what the root cause of the decay in our culture other than sin itself but I do think the Catholics themselves have emphasized sex being bad that they never talked about the positive side of sex being a good thing. Hearing always the negative in church and not the positive about sex is also a trap. This is why I really can’t not get onboard with the anti-contraceptive bandwagon because it just makes the assumption that all sex is bad and the only purpose for sex is procreation.

  63. Xenia says:

    Ok folks, I’ve said enough on this subject and I am just repeating myself.. (Those of you wishing for my return are probably regretting it. ) 🙂

    I want to end my part in this conversation by once more repeating my theme which says abortion is merely the evil fruit of a noxious plant, the plant of sexual immorality that has been watered and nourished by the entertainment industry that we all love and support. Yes, (to anticipate objections) there have always been women who have sought to end their unwanted pregnancies; it’s not new. But today we have easy access to abortions (pills, even) PLUS the added encouragement for immorality by the entertainment industry. Those two together = many abortions. The Soviet Union had a very high abortion rate and this is because they were atheists. Lots of unbelievers around today, too, who see no problem with abortion and other sins. I don’t know if making abortion illegal will save many babies at this stage of the game. One can only hope. Hearts have to change but are we making it impossible for hearts to change? Are we feeding the beast?

  64. Steve says:

    Xenia, thank you for your graciousness to me today. To end my part of the discussion, I’m not sure the saving of babies is the end goal of some of the pro-life folks as you have suggested. You as well as anybody knows that probably won’t work well. Personally, I think the reasons go much deeper to the very core of who we are as a nation. With that said, I think you are on to something with the entertainment industry because that as well goes to the core of who we are as a nation as well.

  65. Xenia says:

    Steve, thank you for your graciousness! I agree, it has to do with who we are as a nation.

    We were born as a nation of rebels whose war cry could well be “Ain’t nobody gonna tell me what to do!”

    Still, I wouldn’t live anywhere else. (Well maybe Scotland….)

  66. Em says:

    When we were young marrieds a half century ago… permissiveness was just gaining a toe hold in the U.S. Censorship became a bad word. “We cant get that past the censors” became a joke. Christian benchmarks gave way to secular loosie-goosy compromise. Tell it/show it like it is, was celebrated as honesty. So those who were serious about morality would get up and walk out (not too quietly) when a movie became too raw. Sacrificing their admission $$s as they left, no one much cared what those uptight, holier than thou types did. To accommodate those of us “easily offended,” the compromise resulting was rating movies for nudity, sex and violence.
    Knowing where, when and how to stand effectively hasn’t been the Christian’s strong suit in this complicated age….

  67. Em says:

    #66 – my tribe half of whom came from Scotland, BTW, preferred “We have no king, but Jesus!”. 😀

    However, i do remember telling my mother, as i stamped my roller skate scarred shoe, “No one came make me do anything! All “i have to do is be born and die!”. LOL …so maybe there was some bone deep rebel in there, too…. sigh

    It is sobering to think that there are no new worlds to run to anymore…. Alaska?

  68. Duane Arnold says:

    #66 Xenia

    Scotland… it’s cold and wet, but the views are spectacular… when you can see them. 😊

  69. Linnea says:

    Xenia @ 51…agreed. These issues encompass entire cultural and national problems that are not easily unwound, and often times, take years to bear fruit. My thought is that the Church, even if not the government, stands to be that bridge between bad choices or bad governments and the children God loves. These are not issues that will be solved by government, at least without unforeseen consequences. They are issues that fall firmly into the Church’s venue. Are we members of the body of Christ? Then we are members of his Church, and we must wrestle with our role in bridging the gap. Again, FWIW…

  70. Xenia says:

    Duane, when I visit Scotland I feel like I am at home.

    I even like lorne sausage.

  71. Duane Arnold says:

    #72 Xenia

    Over the line, “full kilt”….😊

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