Things I Think…

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36 Responses

  1. filbertz says:

    perhaps the aggrieved people observation is a symptom of a lack of thankfulness, an abundance of entitlement, and general dissatisfaction with ones lot.

  2. filbertz says:

    the supreme court nominee is certainly in a beehive of nastiness. the explanations I’ve heard that may excuse those accusations ring hollow for sure. on the other hand, the politicalization of the charges of abuse–to hold them in hand until all else has failed–is a shameful example of the lack of true empathy on the part of most democrats. They are not the heroes and saviors of the #metoo movement, but used the victim to bail out their failed attempts to subvert the SC appointment. The whole matter is shameful.

  3. filbertz says:

    “Things I Think: brought to you by Percoset” Advertisement? Confession? Recommendation? 🙂

  4. Michael says:

    fil,

    All of the above…

  5. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – “reasonable people would give both a hearing ”
    Why would you suggest that these people have not been given a proper hearing? Both women’s stories have been written up in every major newspaper in the country (probably the world) and discussed on every broadcast network – how is that not a hearing? As to Kavanaugh’s side, he too has been given a hearing and has repeatedly denied the claims.

    The women can keep saying it happened, and Kavanaugh can keep saying “not so!” What else does anyone need to hear at this point?

  6. Michael says:

    MLD,

    A true hearing is one that seeks truth not political gain.
    As fil pointed out eloquently, both sides have failed miserably at that.

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    No, a hearing is letting a person be heard. Not giving a person a hearing would be demanding silence.
    Any and all of these people could make a personal appearance on Oprah or Ellen today with welcome arms.
    In your view, who is the arbiter of this truth?

  8. Jean says:

    The arbiter for all practical purposes is the Senate, which must advise and consent. The proper place of the hearing is in front of that tribunal.

  9. Duane Arnold says:

    #5 Having volunteered from time to time in a women’s shelter, my experience has been the same. Even then, however, the majority of women are reluctant to seek legal redress, even if there is incontrovertible evidence. I have found the same to be true in pastoral counseling.

  10. Sher Starr says:

    “Hell is separation from God and the love of each other…the more we separate and isolate, the more our lives and society resemble what God intended to save us from…”

    What a great quote! (There’s a sermon in there!)

  11. Em says:

    #7…..
    What worries me now, i’ve lived to see popular opinion swap ends in this nation. We’ve gone from teaching our children that they are little sinners, dear, but human, to fear God and seek His mercy on to now teaching them that they are dear, sweet little entitled humans and there is no god interested in their welfare, but mommy and/or daddy will lie, cheat, steal and, if necessary die for your advancement as well they should as they created you…
    Or so it seems to me this morning…. Michael has me thinking again
    That said, perhaps the PhxP’s reasoned discussions of late are a sign of things to come in this world….
    Hope so, because, if not, “the end is near” or we’ll wish it were

  12. Steve says:

    Right in wrong the most reasonable way to process the Kavanaugh accusations are to accept the FACT that it’s all a political smear job which should be blatantly obvious. Everything from the timing, to the leaks to the delays and to the unusual demands in dictating Senate rules, processes and procedures. This is nothing more than trying to derail Kavanaugh confirmation.

  13. Kevin H says:

    Steve,

    It is not “FACT” that it’s alla political smear job. The accusations most certainly have been politicized by the Left, starting with the fact that they held onto the original accusation to use it at the last minute. But all the politicization does not disprove the allegations and they very well could still be true. Nobody in the public can know for sure one way or the other on this, and to speak otherwise probably is the result of allowing political bias to skew fairness and reason.

  14. Kevin H says:

    *all a*

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Kevin H, No one needs to “disprove” the allegations – they must be proved.

    Jean said that the Senate is the arbiter of truth in this instance – but we don’t see anyone adhering to that claim when 27 years later people feel free to bring up Anita Hill and say that no truth was affirmed.

    Your statement “Nobody in the public can know for sure one way or the other on this, …” is true – this is why the senate must just move on to vote.

  16. Duane Arnold says:

    Need I remind all… 51% of a vote, any vote, is not an indication of “Truth”. It is merely a political function…

  17. Steve says:

    Kevin,

    You are right. Actually there are no verifiable FACTs surrounding the accusations. The FACTS are all the politicalization that you referred to. Unfortunately people like senator Diane Fienstein who hasn’t even given the letter to senator Grassly and has kept this entire accusation secret for months until after the heariing is despicable if not evil. If we give the accusers the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately the accused are now guilty until they proove their innocent. This radical left wing nonsense should be labeled for what it is.

  18. bob says:

    Was refreshing to read # 3… Thank you for that Michael!

  19. Anonymouse says:

    5. From my experience here as a blogger I can testify that women’s stories of abuse have always been denigrated and discounted by the church. When I get a report I assume it’s true based on past experience. I have also received false reports, so each story has to be heard on it’s own merit…but it has to be heard…

    Me too.
    Sexual assault happened to a close family member, sexual violence to me.

    The abysmally low reporting of sexual violence and assault disturbs me.

    Yet when it and if it is false (I don’t claim to know about the current accusations)..
    Or
    when people say they wholeheartedly believe women or believe the victim AND ITS NOT TRUE,
    the consequences will be horrific!
    True victims will not be believed!

    We’ve got to get these things right!

  20. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane, this is why I asked in response to a “hearing” to arrive at truth, who is the arbiter of truth?

  21. Em says:

    No conclusions, but just pondering… IF
    Ford and Kavanaugh were a pair of teenagers at a unsupervised, probably without homeowner’s oermission, wild teenage party and drinking themselves stupid, leading to action that, sober, neither person would have allowed themselves to get into…. It could have been a car crash set up by the same partying out of bounds…
    Does this disqualify the man from the scotus? Yes, i know another woman has come forward claiming the man performed another offensive act as a college freshman drinking party…
    Seems to me we might be concerned that the man has a drinking problem? Or can we prove or disprove his participation in these parties? Such an investigation might uncover a whole lot of disqualified scotus members…
    Not saying what is true here just hypothesizing … But i admit i wish we had more noble people leading the nation, period!

  22. Duane Arnold says:

    MLD

    You almost asked the “Pilate” question…

  23. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane, mine was not a general question as was Pilate’s. Mine was specific to to Michael’s point at 8:49 this morning that hearings should be seeking truth.

    My claim is that there is nothing more to hear. Dr Ford has voiced her accusations, they were heard (received) by her congresswoman, by the Democrat lead on the Senate committee and forwarded to the FBI. Everything done in the open and reported on.
    On Judge K’s side denial. What more could be sought to determine ‘truth’? It is all out there.

    Each party has received their hearing. The Senate vote is not about truth of these accusations and should not be.

  24. j2theperson says:

    Her hearing could have happened today, if she hadn’t dragged her feet on it. We’ll see if it happens on Thursday.

    Women have a right to be heard. They don’t have a right to be believed. I believe that women have frequently not been listened to, and have not been believed even in the face of a lot of evidence to back them up.

    At the same time, when you come forward 3 decades after the fact, I believe you have a responsibility to have some actual evidence to support your claims. Ford clearly has no support for her claim and is contradicted by the 3 witnesses she named (one of whom is a longterm female friend who shares her political persuasions).

    I’m holding off judgement on the new claims to see if any evidence ends up coming out. Certainly none was offered in the original news story.

  25. Kevin H says:

    Steve,

    You said the FACT was that it was “all” a political smear job. That is where you and many others have spoken much further than you can. If the allegations are indeed false, then it truly is “all” a political smear job. If the allegations are true, than it most certainly is not “all” a political smear job. We do not know if the allegations are true or not, so we cannot state that it is FACT that the whole thing or “all” of it is a political smear job. This is where political biases cause people to speak wrongfully when they speak as if something is FACT when it has not been established as so.

  26. Duane Arnold says:

    j2theperson

    Not taking sides in this matter, but in the RCC numerous people have come foreword after 30 years reporting abuse with little but their own word. Just saying…

  27. Kevin H says:

    MLD,

    “Kevin H, No one needs to “disprove” the allegations – they must be proved.”

    This had nothing to do with my point. I was not arguing how the allegations can/should/need to be proved or disproved. I am saying that at this point, we don’t know whether or not the allegations are true with certainty, so we cannot make statements such as it’s “fact” that it’s “all” a political smear job.

  28. Em says:

    Everyone’s comments this morning have added facets of this scotus appointment and women’s vulnerability worth thinking on
    That said, no one in their right (or left ?. ) mind can deny that the handling of Ford’s claim by Feinstein and company hasn’t exploitive and political – masterfully political

  29. j2theperson says:

    ***in the RCC numerous people have come foreword after 30 years reporting abuse with little but their own word.***

    There were actual details that could be investigated in those cases, orphanage, parish, and diocesan records, and a wealth of unrelated people making similar claims, and a record of at least some of those claims having been made throughout the years–not just suddenly, out of the blue 3 decades later. So, I would say there was actually a lot more to go on in the RCC cases then in Ford’s case where she has no location, no time, admittedly spoke to no one about it, and the only 4 other people who were there (one of whom is sympathetic to the person making the accusations) all say it didn’t happen. There nothing left to investigate, and seems highly unlikely to have happened.

  30. Steve says:

    Kevin,

    I am correcting myself. I have fallen for the snair in confusing accusations with FACTs. I corrected and said there are zero verible facts in this case. The accusations maybe true but an accusation is not a material fact. The FACTS that we do know of are very disturbing. The facts I am referring to now are in how senator Fienstein has withheld potential evidence from the judiciary committee with the letter from Ford. This completely undercuts Fords credibility if she is telling the truth which to me is doubtfull at this point but God certainly knows if that is any comfort.

  31. Kevin H says:

    Steve,

    I appreciate the correction. I agree that the facts that we do know about Feinstein withholding the accusation until the last minute are quite disturbing. I would not say this completely undercuts Ford’s credibility, but it certainly does not help her case.

  32. Kevin H says:

    As an aside, I previously sent an article to Michael that I imagine he’ll run sometime soon where one of the points I address is someone making the declaration that this is all a political smear when in fact they can’t know that, at least not the part of it being “all”. The primary focus of the article is not on the Kavanaugh case, but it does touch on it in some regards.

    I just didn’t want the article to be posted and for you or others to think I wrote it in reaction to the comments here on this thread. The article had already been written. It is just ironic that it covers some of the same ground.

  33. pstrmike says:

    This is a great article Michael. I would agree that we have lost our ability to be reasonable, and one of the reasons why is that I think we want so badly to win the argument. Never mind that we haven’t spent any time considering the other alternatives, we grab ahold of an argument that is generated from our political corner and run with.

    I might weigh in more later, I’ve been working through Pentecostal atonement theology for some work I’m doing on healing and trying to represent it accurately and fairly. It may be that Johnson and company might be right on this one.

  34. j2theperson says:

    It’s really kind of sad that terror over the miniscule chance that Roe v Wade could be overturned and there might be more restrictions placed on killing babies has motivated people to act so hysterically and unjustly.

  35. Jim says:

    #7-I’ve been at that age for almost 4 decades. Children (and grandkids) change everything.

  36. Steve says:

    Kevin,

    I also believe Ford’s attorney Katz is not representing her well or helping her case much.

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