Things I Think…

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17 Responses

  1. eyeswideshut says:

    #7

    Many of us are obsessed with this Michael, we just don’t know what the hell to do??? One thing is for sure, stay far away from their “show business”…

  2. Steve says:

    I don’t think #5 is really fair to churches that are not abusive but view the pulpit where God’s word is preached. In other words conflating the pulpit with a Moses model pastor or equivalent seems unfair. Many times the pulpit is shared among many gifted ordained pastors with no one sole leader. Not sure much difference between a lectern vs. pulpit but seems most are used and are necessary in church.

  3. Jtk says:

    “..we reported on almost a hundred young people who had their hearts and souls ripped apart by cultic practices and even their testimonies don’t seem to bother anyone…“

    You KNOW this isn’t the case.
    Stories and testimonies have great and wide impact.

    And wouldn’t you call what happened with PFM a success? At least a partial success?

  4. Jtk says:

    The stories matter.

    You’ve had many tell you so, right, Michael?

    That’s my point.

  5. Michael says:

    What happened so far at PFM is a disaster.

  6. Jean says:

    “One of the most bizarre features of current evangelical thought is that an abusive pastor can get away with almost anything…as long as his doctrine is “sound” ”

    They can say that, but in the final analysis, I don’t think it’s possible. There is enough teaching in the Bible opposed to abuse, that I can’t imagine a doctrinally sound abuser.

  7. Michael says:

    Jean,
    It’s a fact.
    As long as you check off the right moral and eschatological boxes in your preaching , you are good to go no matter how many lives are ruined.

  8. Duane Arnold says:

    Jean

    I’ve seen abusers – Lutherans, Anglicans and RCs – who were both intellectually, and by appearance, doctrinally sound as far as could be observed. It is something in their soul that is twisted… Not a great explanation, but I’ve seen it often.

  9. Jean says:

    I’m not denying that someone could not subjectively view himself as doctrinally sound, but I’m just saying that according to the what the Bible says about shepherding and church leadership, an abuser (i.e., one who practices abuse) is not doctrinally orthodox IMO.

    Just two out of perhaps dozens of examples:

    “And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ”

    “Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.’

    The emphasis in those passages is on “building up.” Abuse tears down.

  10. Michael says:

    Jean,
    The point is that the congregation makes the judgment on whether the doctrine is sound. If they decide it is, abuse is irrelevant to them.

  11. Not an Attorney says:

    “If you attend a church because it supports your political beliefs…that’s not a church…”

    Michael this one is a tough one to swallow but you called it like it is. Many folks get caught up in this.

  12. Xenia says:

    “If you attend a church because it supports your political beliefs…that’s not a church…”<<<

    This statement is entirely too broad.

  13. Xenia says:

    I could say: If your place of worship does not serve the Body and Blood of Christ… that’s not a church.

  14. Jessica says:

    #7 If you attend a church because it supports your political beliefs…that’s not a church…
    So true, just got done watching the documentary on Netflix called The Family. It re-enforces this statement to me. Every one of the points from 1 to 10 is accurate. Sad to see the Rozells and PFM just fade away like it never was, while the broken are left behind. Someone needs to do a documentary on this and its roots. But look at the documentary on Scientology, and people still attend.

  15. I question why my CC is spending almost 3/4 of a million dollars on what appear to be a mixture of maybe necessary and from what I see superficial upgrades. At least they are transparent. I haven’t seen any transparency about what money goes into the community. I haven’t been in 3 weeks. I need to find somewhere else and stop being lazy…

  16. Michael says:

    “If you attend a church because it supports your political beliefs…that’s not a church…”<<< This statement is entirely too broad." Probably...

  17. Em says:

    I am aware that there are warnings in Scripture regarding abusing/exploiting the sheep… BUT….
    I believe that if we can teach a young Christian that growing is a key part of walking in the Faith, there will be good teachers crossing our paths….
    As this website attests searching out Truth continues for most of us all our human lives…. Dunno, tho, do I? 😁

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