Things I Think

You may also like...

119 Responses

  1. Steve Wright says:

    Truth, wherever it may be found on whatever subject it may be found, is never a threat to the truth of the Word of God. All truth is God’s truth.
    —————————————————————–
    I say this often. All truth is God’s truth.

    It is especially relevant in discussing Proverbs, given how other ancient civilizations had their own wisdom literature, much of it similar to Proverbs.

  2. Nonnie says:

    You are batting 1000 today!! So much to think on here.

  3. Julie Anne says:

    Word comes of yet another scandal ridden dirtbag being restored to “ministry”. The only thing that would end his career (for that is what it is) would be for everyone in the assembly to walk out upon his occupation of the pulpit. That won’t happen, so why should I care when they don’t?

    Why should you care? I don’t know about you, but I care because I was once one who sat under one of those kinds of pastor/teachers. I think there is an element of brainwashing going on in which you lose sense of normalcy, right/wrong, the ability to think for yourself, etc. Is that an excuse? I don’t know, but I know the destruction and the aftermath and I wish there was something that could be done. But the reality is I know nothing can be done until they wake up and see the truth for themselves. Usually that happens when something serious rocks their boat.

  4. filbertz says:

    This is a list with real heft. May get a sore jaw from chewing on it.

  5. Gary says:

    1. “All we really want in life is for someone to acknowledge our pain.” Brueggemann

    That’s pretty close to what I see. We want to be listened to. We want a level of acknowledgement and compassion. When we get that we are open to listening in return.

  6. Xenia says:

    All truth is God’s truth.<<<

    While all truth is God's truth, pieces of truth can be arranged in such a way that it is no longer true.

  7. Michael says:

    Gary,

    Well said.

  8. Gary says:

    2. I might as well get this off my chest…it’s shameful that we care more about Israel than Mexico. It’s also short sighted and ignorant.

    Who is ‘we’? Yeah, I know who. I disagree. Not much I can do for Mexico even though they are mentioned a lot in the bible. *ducks*

  9. Michael says:

    Julie Anne,

    I can name four guys who were part of well publicized scandals who are now being supported and “restored” by the very people who at one time wrote me about how abusive they were.
    At some point, people have to take responsibility for their spiritual health.
    We live in a country of free market religion…one can only lead if others are willing to follow…and support financially.

  10. Gary says:

    3. You are the means that God is using to change the part of the world you dwell in. Your actions are the answer to someones prayers.

    I like this one. It’s something I like to focus on. Hopefully my actions (and my words) are helpful, ministering, and edifying.

  11. Michael says:

    Gary,

    You know who is mentioned a lot in the Bible?
    Your neighbor.

  12. Gary says:

    4. What will the spiritual state be of those who were expecting a Rapture and instead received life under a beast empire?

    Many would fall away. Maybe 95%.

  13. Michael says:

    Gary,

    You know who is mentioned a lot in the Bible?
    The immigrant and the stranger among us.

  14. Lutheran says:

    You know who is mentioned a lot in the Bible?
    Your neighbor.

    “God doesn’t need your good works.
    But your neighbor does.”

    — Luther

  15. Gary says:

    Yes, Michael.
    I suspected that’s what you were getting at. I tried to dodge it in a benign way. Re your #9 post. I am so glad to hear that!!

    5. The more we worship the idol of youth, the more we rob our youth of the virtues of age.
    Not sure what this means but there sure is a disconnect in our self centered culture.

  16. Gary says:

    6. Truth, wherever it may be found on whatever subject it may be found, is never a threat to the truth of the Word of God. All truth is God’s truth.

    Yeppers. If a thing is true it’s from God.

    I’ve worked along side a lot of immigrants and strangers. Many types of strangers.

  17. Gary says:

    7. If the Calvinists of today ever bothered to read the works of Calvin himself they would soon realize that his main concerns were always pastoral, even when expositing doctrine. I am appalled at the lack of pastoral concern among my tribe…and the namesake of the tribe would be as well.

    …umm 😉

  18. Gary says:

    8. Those of us who have been given the faith to believe the entire canon need to remember that genocide ordered by God should be a difficult thing to reconcile with the concept of a God who is love.

    It wasn’t difficult until I started thinking about it from the non believers viewpoint but everything has to be taken in context. There are a lot of passages where God is shown to be gracious and merciful so I have to believe that where the bible is silent God was also gracious and merciful. An example was when he blinded the perverts of Sodom. He could’ve kilt ’em. By blinding them He was giving them an opportunity to come to their senses and repent.
    I like God.

  19. Gary says:

    9. Word comes of yet another scandal ridden dirtbag being restored to “ministry”. The only thing that would end his career (for that is what it is) would be for everyone in the assembly to walk out upon his occupation of the pulpit. That won’t happen, so why should I care when they don’t?

    Even if the whole congregation walked out in the middle of a sermon one by one making pithy comments as they left, the dirtbag would still have a building which he would soon fill again.

  20. Gary says:

    10. I spent my free time last week reading a book called “Dirty Wars” that speaks of how our country wages secret wars with secret prisons all over the world and targets American citizens for assassination without charges or warrant. It is heavily researched and footnoted. We also learned last week of the incredible invasion of our privacy by our government in the NSA scandal. These have far more eschatological meaning to me than who Rick Warren has lunch with…

    Did I read that right? Our govt assasinates our own citizens who are in prisons around the world? Or do you mean to say the foreign govts do that? lol regarding Rick Warren.

  21. Michael says:

    Gary,

    Not so.
    Most of these guys are not paid by a denomination…so without the support of the people, they lose the building too.

  22. Michael says:

    Gary,

    Read the book.
    If you end up on the enemies list they will send a drone after you…without filing any charges and without any constitutional protections.

  23. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, question.

    Do you see ‘neighbor’ in terms of mostly a geographic?

    In other words, if one was still an American, and a Christian, but living in Asia or Europe, would one be excused from concerns over Mexico? Or at least allowed to drop them significantly on the scale of concern as compared to others closer by rail or car?

    Isn’t part of the teaching of the Good Samaritan (given in response to the question ‘who is my neighbor’) telling us that neighbor does not exclude anyone.

    Also, does “Israel” include Jews persecuted in other parts of the world.

    (Your point as to Israel is understood and I hear you if by ‘care’ you mean Christians obsessed with the inner workings of every little government decision as the prophecy wonks would desire. Not looking to debate really – plus, I have to run. 🙂 )

  24. Julie Anne says:

    Michael said: I can name four guys who were part of well publicized scandals who are now being supported and “restored” by the very people who at one time wrote me about how abusive they were.

    Yes, good point and very true. That is a bit different than being in a church without a scandal and finally realizing something is wrong.

  25. Gary says:

    Oh, I see. I was thinking of the Moses model. Are thinking of a specific denom?

  26. Crowned1 says:

    1. I go back and forth with this one. Many times I do not want attention even if in pain. Attention tends to exacerbate pain’s ‘sting’, at least for myself.
    2. I agree. I support ‘the world’, and Christ’s saving of it in its entirety.
    3. Amen
    4. I pray for my family who are still in the CC rapture web. I pray that I am here to encourage them should the beast empire fully realize itself in our lifetime.
    5. I agree. I enjoy the process of balding and greying. Well, technically the hair on my head simply moved to my back.
    6. Absolutely. There is ‘truth’, and there are our ‘guesses’ at it.
    7. More ‘of Christ’ and less ‘of Calvin’ imo
    8. True. Although I would add that the giver of life has every right to take it…and that the pot has no business questioning the potter. Why did God allow this to happen? Because He is God with a plan for humanity. Our moral understandings are irrelevant.
    9. Let the blind lead the blind. God will call out His sheep.
    10. This has been going on for a long time. People who spoke about it prior were labeled “conspiracy nuts”. Mainstream media covers it and suddenly it’s gospel.

  27. Gary says:

    My neighbor is the one I come in contact with. Now that I remember, I have blessed Mexico as my neighbor.

  28. Michael says:

    Steve,

    I’ll answer that with a story.
    Back in the wild and wooly days of the blog there was one guy who simply couldn’t stand me.
    He was a pastor and he felt I was very unfair to CC.
    He wrote me the most scathing emails I ever received….and I sent a bunch right back at him.
    Fast forward five years…I hear from him again.
    This time he’s inviting me to go with him to Mexico…to what might be the most dangerous place in a very dangerous country.
    He’s sneaking in badly needed food and medical supplies at the risk of his own life.
    Now, he’s pretrib dispensational and supports Israel…but his heart is also turned toward the needs of his neighbor.
    My enemy has become someone I hold in the highest regard.

  29. jtk says:

    Michael, the exposing prophet….

    Keep it up.

    I had a fascinating conversation in my travels last night with a foreign missionary.

    “Cultivating a heart of thanksgiving” to me (and what that should look like for our nation) for the immigrants (and their demographic) we have here who do most of our dirty jobs is pretty easy; if it’s hard for you, consider what the demographics are for the immigrants who do the dirty jobs in other parts of the world is. We have it good. And that is just thanking God for how good we have it relatively, as it is worse in a lot of other parts of the world (does anyone even understand what I’m saying here….?).

    We have ALOT to thank God for in the GOOD our immigrants bring as well!

    It isn’t Mexico’s fault we’ve aborted 30 million (what would be) 16-40 year olds, the people who do the jobs most of our immigrants occupy….

    Mexico and Israel–what a fascinating comparison you bring up, nuestro jefe de PP.

  30. Nonnie says:

    I attended a service at a church and the person up front was doing the prayer time. Prayers for the sick, the pastor, our community were said, then prayers for Israel. No other country was mentioned, despite the fact that a horrible earthquake had killed thousands in China a day or 2 before. Also a little girl in a city not too far away had been kidnapped and murdered. Her family was forgotten, but not Israel. I had to pray and repent of my attitude.

  31. Nonnie says:

    “Now, he’s pretrib dispensational and supports Israel…but his heart is also turned toward the needs of his neighbor.”

    And there is the needed balance!

  32. Michael says:

    Julie Anne,

    It’s my firm conviction after years of blogging that the very best thing writers like yourself and me can do is educate people to see the warning signs before a scandal hits and to teach people to take responsibility for their own spiritual health.
    That’s what I hope to start this week.
    It won’t draw big numbers but it might make a dent.

  33. Michael says:

    jtk,

    I both hear and appreciate you.

  34. Michael says:

    Nonnie,

    I think there should be a petition to clone you… 🙂
    Much love to you, my friend.

  35. Michael says:

    Crowned1,

    I have learned much of Christ sitting at Calvin’s feet.
    As to #8, my argument is for pastoral sensitivity to the questions of those who doubt or disbelieve.

  36. Josh Hamrick says:

    Things I am thinking…possibly related or unrelated to Michael’s things:

    1. Job – Got my head immersed in Job for the last two weeks, and for about 7 more to come. Super interesting book. I see Job as kind of a 1st amendment to Proverbs. Proverbs basically says, if you make good decisions you will get good results. Job points out that sometimes you make all the good decisions and everything still falls apart. Job is NOT an instruction manual on how to act during times of disaster.
    2. I am looking into New Orleans Baptist Seminary next year. I think it’s going to work out. I am excited about the prospect.
    3. I’ll take a good pastoral/devotional commentary over a more scholarly commentary every day. Not to say that two can’t overlap, because they sometimes do. Also, a bad devotional commentary is a waste of good paper.
    4. Lunch was good. Bacon Cheeseburger. Probably sinful…I’ll repent later 🙂
    5. Had our first goat birth yesterday. My daughter named him Harry Potter. Remember, we live next to a fundy college, surrounded by long-denim skirts and white Keds. Gotta love her rebellious streak. Must have got it from her mom 🙂

  37. Kevin H says:

    “Back in the wild and wooly days of the blog there was one guy who simply couldn’t stand me.”

    There was only one? 🙂

  38. Nonnie says:

    Keven H. LOL!!!

  39. Michael says:

    Josh,

    Your #5 cracked me up…

  40. CrucifiED says:

    I know it’s an unpopular opinion because we Americans like to keep creepy happenings relegated to television, movies, books, music, etc., but if you believe that God was most likely dealing with a gene pool problem when he commanded whole groups of people to be wiped out, it doesn’t really offend my understanding of a God of love.

    Reading about the kinds of genetic mutations occurring today and what is in store for us in the future, it’s not so far fetched anymore to believe that the same things may have happened once before after mankind had been on this earth for 2000 years or more.

    I’m starting to believe our ancient world was more like our modern world and less like the pictures we saw in Sunday school would have us believe. It is pretty clear that they had some cool technology that we are still trying to understand.

  41. Josh Hamrick says:

    # 41 – The name cracked me up too. She wants me to teach at this college, but I try to explain to her that they won’t have me. Why not? Well, look. Is mom dressed like those ladies?
    You mean they won’t hire you because of FASHION?!?!?!

    So, we have these conversation constantly. She has chosen Rowling over having a dad work across the street 🙂

  42. monax says:

    great thoughts, Michael.

    for lack of time let me merely reiterate what most comforted and resonated with me:

    You are the means that God is using to change the part of the world you dwell in. Your actions are the answer to someone’s prayers.

    amen

    and

    thank you

  43. Crowned1 says:

    Michael @ 36 “I have learned much of Christ sitting at Calvin’s feet.
    As to #8, my argument is for pastoral sensitivity to the questions of those who doubt or disbelieve.”

    I too have learned about Christ from things God has spoken ‘through’ His vessel Calvin. But have I learned anything about Christ ‘from’ Calvin? No, Calvin was always the mouthpiece, God could have used a donkey or a rock. I have to keep this perspective to avoid idolizing men…a sin I struggled with in my past spiritual life.

    To your #8, yes…it would assist you in being a fisher of men to not deliver a westboro baptist doctrine as your ‘opener’. 🙂

  44. Steve Wright says:

    Michael,

    You know I hear you on your main point here. FWIW, we (the church) are about to start supporting our 3rd worker in Mexico..we don’t support anyone in Israel, though I have friends that minister to the very poor and needy there in the name of Christ – and I praise God for them. These friends also have ministered in Africa and the Ukraine for lengthy periods of time as well. God has them in Israel now.

    My larger point was the issue of neighbor. Syria, Darfur, North Korea, Iran – we see the needs and feel so helpless – and of course those places are not geographically close to the USA.

    Thus my question as to Mexico. As an aside, in our case, the question is moot. Our church has a much larger proportion of Hispanics than the average church with a gringo pastor – and our local neighborhood is largely Hispanic.

  45. Julie Anne says:

    Michael said: It’s my firm conviction after years of blogging that the very best thing writers like yourself and me can do is educate people to see the warning signs before a scandal hits and to teach people to take responsibility for their own spiritual health.

    I agree with you and that is what I was attempting to do regarding the Arminian nightmare children’s book. But I think I stepped on your toes because the guy is Calvinist.

    What I saw was bully behavior starting from the cover of the book. Others noticed it, too. Later when the author came to dialogue on my blog, he displayed more bad behavior there as well as with me and others on Twitter. There is a way to respectfully dialogue. What kind of pastor calls a woman a pig? There was a purpose to my madness. And as I said, I’m an equal opportunity blogger as far as doctrinal backgrounds. I’ve done several articles on BG – he’s Arminian, right?

    Mr. Hall (and I won’t refer to him as Pastor Hall because he got dethroned in my mind by his behavior) did not show himself to be a shepherd, but a spiritual tyrant.

  46. Michael says:

    Julie Anne,

    Go look at the covers of some anti-Calvinist books…where it’s described as everything from unbiblical to Satanic.
    I don’t know how he interacts with his own flock or what sort of church government he has in place…I can’t judge his ministry, just his book title that is making all of us in the camp look like an ass.

  47. Gary says:

    The Happy Calvinist

    I love to go a-Calvining
    Along the mountain track
    And as I go, I love to sing
    My TULIPS on my back

    Chorus
    Val-deri, val-dera
    Val-deri, val-dera,
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
    Ha
    Val-dera
    My TULIPS on my back

    I love to Calvin by the stream
    That dances in the sun
    So joyously it calls to me
    Come join my happy song

    Val-eri, val-dera
    Val-deri, val-dera
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
    Ha
    Val-era
    Come join my happy song

    I wave my hat to all I meet
    And They wave back to me
    And blackbirds call so loud and sweet
    From ev’ry green wood tree

    Val-eri, val-dera
    Val-deri, val-dera
    Val-deri, val-dera

    Oh, may I go a-Calvining
    Until the day I die
    Oh, may I always laugh and sing
    Beneath God’s clear blue sky

    Val-eri, val-dera
    Val-eri, val-dera
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
    Ha
    val-dera
    Beneath the clear blue sky

    Beneath the clear blue sky

  48. Julie Anne says:

    Gary – I’m “lifting” that to my funnies page. haha

  49. Gary says:

    “The thing that matters is that no ‘truth’, ‘doctrine’, theory or teaching, whether it be good or doubtful, must ever be allowed to become either an end in itself, or a sidetrack. It must never be taken out of the essential context of God’s full purpose.” Or Sparks will fly.

  50. monax says:

    fwiw, on my way to bed last night i snagged Calvin’s commentary on Ephesians from the library and read his thoughts on the nature of the “Children of Light” (Ch.5)—the essence of which is found in their “obedience” to God.

    as I don’t often consult Calvin, I thought to myself last night how I should consider Calvin’s perspective more often.

    so, JA, some “pastor” called a woman a pig @ SSB? You got a link for that?

  51. Josh re: #37

    My former Platoon Sergeant is attending New Orleans Baptist Seminary right now.

  52. Michael says:

    monax,

    All of Calvin’s commentaries are free online in various formats.

  53. Josh Hamrick says:

    @52 – That’s cool Derek! New Orleans is an amazing school.

  54. 1. Yep.
    2. True.
    3. Glad for that even if I don’t always see those answers myself.
    4. I hope they can adapt.
    10. Everyday some new revelation of govt. abuse is getting depressing. Indeed, the realm of conspiracy grows more real everyday. I had an overload of that info this weekend and my brain has said no more. Not burying my head, just gotta get away from it. Unfortunately, I will probably see some new thing that will set it off again. wondering what the govt. can do with phone data and not your conversations. Go to the link below and find out what a german politician did.
    http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-data-retention

  55. monax says:

    that’s good to know, Michael, glad they’re available free online. . i just looked in my Libronix Logos (which has just about everything) and found only the Acts and John commentaries by Calvin. . it’s nice to have access to both hard and digital copies. .

  56. Steve Wright says:

    Not burying my head, just gotta get away from it.
    ———————————————-
    That’s been me since about 8:30PM PST on 11/06/12.

  57. Michael says:

    Steve,

    The thing is…that all the practices in that book and all of the ones being exposed in regards to surveillance crossed party lines.
    There are no good guys here…

  58. Julie Anne says:

    Monax: “JA, some “pastor” called a woman a pig @ SSB? You got a link for that?”

    No, on Twitter. It was implied if you know the context. He said “casting pearls before feminists” to another guy in the conversation in which I was the only female involved at the time (I think someone later joined in). Earlier, either on public or private Twitter, he had asked me if I was feminist. Check his Twitter feed. https://twitter.com/PulpitAndPen on June 5.

  59. Michael says:

    Julie Anne,

    I’m now reading the book in question…will speak to it soon.
    You cost me 3.99… 🙂

  60. Gary says:

    Whenever I’m going through the door with someone I open the door for them and say “Pearls before swine”.

  61. Michael’s #58. Yep. Used to be a conservative Republican. They have lost me and turned me to a more libertarian approach along the lines of Rand Paul. D or R it is all the same anymore. The lie, cheat and steal method of govt. rules now.

  62. 4. What will the spiritual state be of those who were expecting a Rapture and instead received life under a beast empire?

    Thriving as she has throughout all of history, no longer distracted by a ridiculous false hope of escapism spawned in the mid 1800s

  63. Michael says:

    Derek,

    I just want to move to Switzerland… 🙂

  64. Michael says:

    Gman,

    I don’t think that those expecting a pretrib Rapture will be thriving…I think it’s going to take a huge toll.

  65. Gary says:

    Turn off the lights. The Republican party is over. It will dissolve into liberals or split. Either way I don’t see it winning anything of significance.

  66. Michael says:

    My…what a rotten little book that is.
    Took about 15 minutes to read…and it won’t be on my sons reading list.

  67. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, I recognize the bipartisan nature of both issues. I’m just saying something really switched on election night. And it certainly wasn’t because I thought Romney was some savior for the country either….

  68. Gary says:

    The party of power is the media.

  69. Josh Hamrick says:

    There have been a lot of expected Rapture dates, and none of them have been correct.

    Usually, the people pick-up and move-on. Some disillusioned, some smarter and stronger.

  70. monax says:

    Julie Anne, that’s funny!

    i’m off to my happy hour of Belgian’s. . kickin it off with a St Bernardus quad!

    i’ll plan on checking it out later

    peace out

  71. Gary says:

    Josh,
    I got distracted before I had a chance to be disillusioned.

    monax Watou drinkin’?

  72. Gary says:

    What I mean is that I got involved in ministry and the rapture took a back seat. I think it’s still sitting there. Waiting.

  73. Scott Barber says:

    Great Post Michael,

    Calvin would indeed be shocked by the lack of pastoral love in “Calvinism.” I wonder if this stems from the rigidity of modern Reformed systematics (particularly that written at a popular level by Calvinist pastors), where mystery is set aside as a sort of lazy thinking. There is the sense that our responsibility is to convince people of the logic of our theological system, rather than to comunicate God’s love through the loving proclamation of God’s loving action. I’m reading a great book right now by the Catholic theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar called “Love Alone is Credible” which does a great job in balancing love and truth. It is a bit heavy in philosophy for my abilities but really worth the read.

  74. Michael says:

    Scott,

    You nailed it…that is the problem in a nutshell.
    I just read this authors interactions with Julie Anne on Twitter and the lack of love mixed with the certainty of doctrine was really hard to swallow.

  75. Steve Wright says:

    There is the sense that our responsibility is to convince people of the logic of our theological system, rather than to comunicate God’s love through the loving proclamation of God’s loving action.
    ———————————————————–
    That is very, very well stated. And has been my experience often as (some) Calvinists try to argue me into their beliefs.

  76. Reuben says:

    Steve,

    I may be wrong, and out of line, but it is my observed understanding that Bush Jr. started the surveillance oversteps under the patriot act and Obama has since actually made small efforts to back those measures off. The guilty as sin party in the last 12 years has been Repiblicans.

    Before that, I dont know.

  77. Michael says:

    Honestly, I’m saddened by what I read…a book review is forthcoming.
    Might as well get completely kicked to the curb…

  78. Michael says:

    Rueben,

    According to the book I referenced and the insane amount of research I’ve done in the middle of the night…Obama has taken all these measures and run like a cat on fire with them.

  79. Michael says:

    Oh, and the book was written by a liberal.
    Very liberal, I suspect. 🙂

  80. Julie Anne says:

    Michael said: “I’m now reading the book in question…will speak to it soon.
    You cost me 3.99… ”

    haha – sucker!! I’ll bet it’s not as bad as the cover, but I still have huge issues with the cover. Be sure to see how he interacted w/folks on my comments below.

    Michael: send me your e-mail and I’ll send you more conversation. spiritualsb @ gmail

    And feel free to delete, Michael, but here is JD from a comment on my blog. I’ll save your readers from having to click on a link. 🙂

    1. No, I do not believe teaching “the essentials” are enough. Primarily, because we are told to teach “the whole counsel of God’s Word” and because “all of the Scripture is good for reproof, correction, formation of sound doctrine,” etc.. Secondarily, because the only way we can determine what “the essentials” are is by our own standards of priority. Who’s the person that decides that? Who decides what is an essential? Third, the Doctrines of Grace deal directly with the topic of salvation (what it is, how it works, how it’s given etc) which I feel to be pretty darn essential.

    2. No, correctly understanding salvation is not a requirement FOR salvation. However (speaking for myself and my own development as a believer), understanding the grace-aspect of salvation GREATLY benefits my understanding of God’s glory and elevates my worship to understand the vast depths and heights of his saving grace. Also, it IS necessary for Biblical ecclesiology, missiology, etc. It plays into so much of how we Christians conduct ourselves both in our own lives and within the church.

    3. It doesn’t concern me (as in, “keep me up at night”) that people would take issue with the cover, assuming they would read the contents. Ironically, most complaints about the cover include some insult toward me not being open-minded, which I find less than sincere if they didn’t read the content. The cover is meant as a novelty – something we can laugh about. If we can’t laugh about things, we’re pretty messed up people.

    4. Concerning big words, I’ve often used this example: If you went to the doctor and he diagnosed you with “Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis” (which is an actual medical disorder, I didn’t make that up) you would not only soak in everything the doctor had to say about it, but ask for a brochure and literature that you could go home and read. You would search on WebMD and Google it and learn everything there is to know about it. You would talk about it to all your friends. You wouldn’t say, “I just can’t figure out these big words.” You can learn about what’s important to you. That’s #1 – we are a smart, literate people. Words like “Ordo Salutis” and “Monergism” aren’t complicated. We can handle them. And to anyone that says kids can’t handle these words, I can introduce you to a whole lot of kids that not only know those words, but can explain other words like “propitiation, expiation, sanctification, justification” and those are Biblical words (man didn’t make them up). Those are within the Text itself.

    And so I would fundamentally deny that we need to keep our teachings “simple.” This is the Word of God we’re talking about. If he gave it to us, it’s for us to know. And there’s nothing wrong about being intellectual about it. I call the opposite thinking of this “bumper-sticker theology” (if it’s too big to fit in a catchy slogan on a bumper sticker it’s too big). It creates the watered down and (not trying to be mean) basically ignorant Christianity that’s prevalent in modern evangelicalism.

    I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to answer these questions, but I’ll say this concerning much of what I’ve seen here and in a few Amazon reviews: If people want others to be nicer, they don’t need to be so mean in the process.

    Does anyone have an extra mirror I can hand JD with regard to his last paragraph?

    signed,
    Little Miss Piggy, snort snort

  81. Michael says:

    Julie Anne,

    There are some points there I would agree with, particularly #4.

    The question is how we address these issues as much as the content of the address itself.

  82. Crowned1 says:

    Josh @ 70

    That awkward moment, when you realize your faith was in man and not in God.

    You are correct, the next steps are different for each person. For me, finding out my childhood senior pastor was a false prophet strengthened my faith.

  83. Steve Wright says:

    I think it is very hard for me to discuss the trade-off of privacy rights versus protection of the citizenry as someone on the sidelines. I just watched a clip of President Obama speaking the exact opposite of candidate Obama. I don’t think it is because the guy got corrupted by the office, I think it is because he discovered the awesome responsibility he has once becoming President. (You see, I can say nice things about Obama sometimes 🙂 )

    Like in the church, it is easy to be critical of those who hold responsibility for others and thus have to make decisions that others never have to make.

    It always has been a challenge for our country. Even the sainted Lincoln and the sainted FDR did things in times of war that we are shocked by, but we try not to think too much about as we praise these men of history.

    And I do believe, totally, that we are at war with an enemy that somehow has political correctness protection in our media and government. An enemy that seems to keep pulling off successful attacks that kill a few more Americans here, a few more there.

    Honestly, I am less concerned with the government snooping on me in fighting this enemy than I am with the actual legislation, deficit spending, legal decisions and such that are, in my opinion, directly destroying our nation.

    (The above comment is more focused on the NSA spying and not the drone murder of citizens without trial, which speaks for itself in my opinion as a terrible sin of a far too powerful government)

  84. Steve Wright says:

    As an aside, I think there is a reason ex-Presidents with different ideologies often are good friends. They really do belong to a small, unique club.

  85. Gary says:

    Michael,
    If I went to my doc and he said Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis” to me I would tell him to say that in plain English. Or Spanish if I was in Mexico. Someone on that thread pointed out that it was a made up generic word. By the way I do look upwards, I mean up words when I don’t know their meaning. I’ve done it today.

  86. PP Vet says:

    “False prophet”?

    You mean, like, a Benny-Hinn-is-a-false-prophet kind of false prophet?

    And Fred-Price-and-anybody-else-I-don’t-like-is-a-false-prophet kind of false prophet?

    Or a real false prophet?

  87. Gary says:

    Benny Hinn isn’t a prophet or a false prophet. He’s the Wizard of Oz.

  88. The Patriots signed Tebow. The End is Near!
    ____________
    On a more serious note, I am actually happy for Tebow, who was treated badly by the Jets.

  89. PP Vet says:

    Sorry to interrupt this excellent thread – but there is some major breaking news: Sources say Tim Tebow signed with the Patriots. Not yet confirmed, but hey, it’s hope.

    Nice to know (probably) who I will be rooting for this year.

  90. PP Vet says:

    Oops looks like DT beat me on this scoop 🙂

  91. I found out ’cause one of my old army buddies, who is a Patriots fan, is in shock on FB. I will probably be rooting for the Patriots also.

  92. On a principled level I don’t like the government listening in. On a practical level, I really don’t care. I usually only talk with my wife on the phone – what are they going to track? Me saying “yes dear”? 🙂

  93. PP Vet says:

    Belichick and I grew up in the same county and played football at the same college, not quite at the same time (just missed him).

    And now, for once, I like him. 🙂

  94. Michael says:

    MLD,

    LOL 🙂

  95. ( |o )====::: says:

    Michael,
    You said,

    “Gman,

    I don’t think that those expecting a pretrib Rapture will be thriving…I think it’s going to take a huge toll.”

    Which is why we need to be students of all of history, church included.

    Expecting life & death are what sobers a person, focuses a person to live for future generations and legacy, a truth I never realized until I abandoned belief in any sort of a rapture.

  96. MLD’s #93.
    Check that link out. They can recreate a lot. I admit that the chances of any individual being directly affected by this are slim, but a future govt. targeting political enemies….that puts a whole ‘nother spin on it, especially in the light of the IRS scandal. No govt. should have these powers, too much room for abuse and political blackmail. I want no one Rep. or Dem. to be able to use this at some point in the future.

    Here is another good article i read this weekend.
    http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/06/08/the-era-of-metadata/?fb_action_ids=4461527471016&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

    Excerpt:
    The security age began on Sept. 12, 2001. The enormity of the surveillance state since has grown. Americans, in the shock after 9/11, didn’t mind enhanced security, and in fact were mostly grateful for it and supportive of it. But built into that support, and the acceptance of the surveillance mentality’s intrusions, was I suspect a broadly held assumption that we’ll just do it now, and down the road we can stop it. It’s just an emergency thing. We can make it go away when we no longer want it. But can we? Do government programs tend to remain static, or wither? Or do they tend to grow?

  97. The link I referred to in the beginning of #97 was the link in #55.

  98. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Tebow sucks as a QB, Could care less about him, he’s an irrelevant player

  99. Crowned1 says:

    Steve @ 85 “As an aside, I think there is a reason ex-Presidents with different ideologies often are good friends.”

    Of course, fraternal bonds. Do your brother no harm. Set religion aside for the common good of humanity.

  100. Neo. says:

    Looks like I’m a Patriots fan, now. I hated Tom Brady. 🙂

  101. Neo. says:

    Re: Genocide in the OT.

    I’ve been wrestling with this one for some time.

    I’m finding difficulties in Scripture are God’s invitation for me to wrestle/dance/converse with Him and stand in awe of mystery.

  102. Michael says:

    “I’m finding difficulties in Scripture are God’s invitation for me to wrestle/dance/converse with Him and stand in awe of mystery.”

    There you go…amen.

  103. Neo. says:

    Re: Genocide in OT.

    I read it through the lens of Jesus. And that’s what is confusing.

    Perhaps there is a trend or trajectory.

    From the transition of human sacrifice (see: Gen 22) to animal sacrifice to a single Divine sacrifice…. Maybe there is an evolving relationship with God?

  104. Gary says:

    The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him and he will show them His covenant.

  105. Gary says:

    I think there is, Neo in a personal way.

  106. Gary says:

    God is the Great Physician doing emergency surgery and he uses human scalpels sometimes.

  107. Dave says:

    #8 – I don’t find it difficult at all to reconcile from the viewpoint of fairness and consequence; but as a sinner with a human perspective who favors mans logic at times I find it hard to reconcile. A society that favors emotion and feeling over truth will have huge problems with it. And they do…

  108. Crowned1,
    “Of course, fraternal bonds. Do your brother no harm. Set religion aside for the common good of humanity.”

    And what is the option – religious wars?

    I set religion aside at family gatherings for the good of the family. I find no value in being disruptive.

  109. Neo. says:

    “I find no value in being disruptive.” – MLD

    L….M….A…O!

  110. Gary says:

    It could happen.

  111. TIT is one of my favorite few minutes of every week. This week is especially fun but as soon as I claim to love Mexico more than Israel I will be MORE responsible than I really want to be. OR than I can prove.

    As for the RAPTURE I offer a special look at a old verse.Hebrews 9:27–28 (ESV)

    27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

    Will appear a second time NOT TO DEAL WITH SIN… oh my how lovely.

    However, I do not struggle with the judgment of God upon the Canaanites as it is contexted in his longsuffering and in the unfolding covenant to bless all nations. I struggle no more with it than with the flood. As for the ‘God of love’ that is not a free floating idea either. He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who is the love of God. Death though horrific is not to be compared with judgment with is far more horrifying and in Christ he deals with both. We are not merely lovers of love we are objects of grace.

    Partial Calvinist Dread.

  112. Babylon's Dread says:

    It would be ever so much more fun if you would name the ‘scandal ridden dirt bag’ so we can all be gleefully appalled.

  113. Gary says:

    I thought this was clever-
    “I struggle no more with it than with the flood. As for the ‘God of love’ that is not a free floating idea either.”

  114. Crowned1 says:

    MLD @ 109

    I see nothing wrong with setting aside one’s differences for peace…as long as I do not have to compromise my beliefs (or accept others as valid) in order to maintain it. Taking up one’s cross daily does not allow for compromise.

    As an example, being a man of honor, I would probably make a very good free mason, I know several. Alas, my religious beliefs do not allow me to join the fraternity, because I would have to compromise who I am to entertain the great architect philosophy.

    On the same token, noting your point, I see no reason to fight someone because they don’t agree with me either. And yes, at family gatherings, I am overcome with muteness regarding theology & politics.

  115. Ixtlan says:

    4. What will the spiritual state be of those who were expecting a Rapture and instead received life under a beast empire?

    I have wondered the same thing ever since someone first challenged me with that question several years ago. Allow me to speculate. I would expect great denial, great confusion, apostasy that will set the stage for the Day of the Lord.

    See Habakkuk 1.

    9. Word comes of yet another scandal ridden dirtbag being restored to “ministry”. The only thing that would end his career (for that is what it is) would be for everyone in the assembly to walk out upon his occupation of the pulpit. That won’t happen, so why should I care when they don’t?

    Exactly. If people don’t have enough discernment and biblical sense to get out, then there is very little that can be done for them. They have become like the frog in the kettle. Abraham understood this when he told the rich man that it would be futile for one to return from the dead to warn his brothers. They have Moses and the prophets, if they do not hear them, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead. (Luke 16:31)

  116. Muff Potter says:

    8. Those of us who have been given the faith to believe the entire canon need to remember that genocide ordered by God should be a difficult thing to reconcile with the concept of a God who is love.

    It really is a difficult thing to reconcile. The standard appeals to the mystery and sovereignty of the Almighty might be enough for some but not for me. I have my own theory and it does not point to a bloodthirsty dessert God exacting his vengeance on kids and animals simply because he can by virtue of unlimited power.

    Many years ago when I was in the VA hospital there was an old retired Lutheran pastor who used to come around just to talk and be with us. He said something concerning Scripture which I never forgot and which stood in stark contrast to the teachings of Chuck Smith in the old glory days of Calvary Chapel: “…What was descriptive of then is not necessarily prescriptive for now, God has given you a conscience and an internal moral compass, you decide which is which…”

  117. Ricky Bobby says:

    Muff, very much in agreement with your take, that resonates with me.

  118. Good one, Muff!

    Hey Ricky Bobby.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.