What Are We Praying For?

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76 Responses

  1. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    What does “revival” look like?

    I don’t pray for revival as I don’t think there is such a thing. Revival infers that right now the Holy Spirit is sitting on his hands and holding back something we should have that would “revive” us.

    Live in your justification and vocation and move on with the day. 🙂 .

  2. Michael says:

    I don’t think it necessarily means that at all.
    I think it means there are times when God does something extraordinary above his normal workings in the world.
    The “Jesus People” phenomena was extraordinary.

  3. Michael says:

    As was the Reformation…

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The Jesus People deal was the same time that the Bhagwan Rajneesh had a pretty good run in your state and the Beatles created a worldwide following of Maharishi Yogi’s eastern religion.

    I think is was the drugs … but I could be wrong. 😉 Was there a national crying out by the mainline churches for revival amongst their hippie kids?

  5. Michael says:

    MLD,

    I haven’t done the historical research to back this up, but my guess is that revival occurs spontaneously, not necessarily in response to prayers for it.
    Doesn’t hurt to ask,though.

    There is a percentage of prayers for revival that seem to me to be asking God to make more people think like the one’s praying…

  6. I think it’s amusing that Billy Graham and the conservative evangelicals who prayed so hard for “revival” during the ’70s were answered by God giving us The Jesus People Movement.

    I can see all around heaven the angels were facepalming saying, “Ingrates!” 😉

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/jesus-wasnt-concerned-with-taking-the-country-back-and-neither-should-we/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=formerlyfundie_050115UTC070516_daily&utm_content=&spMailingID=48563750&spUserID=MTAzNDkzMjEzNTk3S0&spJobID=680084981&spReportId=NjgwMDg0OTgxS0

  7. Xenia says:

    I have my hands full just praying regularly for the salvation of wayward family members.

    I think these are the kinds of prayers God hears. (Of course, He hears everything.)

    Vague “O Lord, bring revival to the nation!” type prayers seem ineffective to me.

    By the way, I am not a fan of the Jesus People movement. I think most of the things we complain about here on the PhxP can find their roots in the Jesus People movement.

  8. Xenia says:

    Of course, I am not a fan of the Reformation, either….

  9. Em says:

    “Was there a national crying out by the mainline churches for revival amongst their hippie kids?”
    We were young born agains with toddlers at the time, but you’d better believe those “mainline” churches were praying for their kids as their congregations dwindled and their families crumbled… at the same time, they were intimidated by the so called sophisticated, intellectual elites who claimed honesty and wisdom – new knowledge far beyond the timid, closed minds of God’s people… turn on tune in and drop out… it felt good and the kids did it
    and the ‘greatest generation’ had its Achilles’ heel, the war created an artificial sense of superiority… a twisted version of Kennedy’s later call: to do God’s work on earth – without God
    the charismatic move that broke out in the 50s among Presbyterians, Episcopalians and, later Catholics, happened as those folks gathered for prayer… must have been quite a surprise at first
    didn’t our Lord say that the Holy Spirit moves where He wills, like the wind? has me wondering tho, if the best point of contact might be prayer… dunno

  10. covered says:

    “The unspoken assumption is that there was a time when America walked with God…” I agree with this assumption but things have changed in our country. Exactly which god and who’s god are we praying to tomorrow? When I see the coexist bumper sticker it bothers me. What have we done to the only living, true God?

  11. Kevin H says:

    What does it mean for America to “return to God”?

    I think I commented something similar on a thread not too long ago, but to “return to God” would imply that America was with God in the first place. Yes, America has had a lot of Christian influences throughout its history, including during its founding. But this country has never been fully a Christian nation or completely devoted to God. Not from an official standpoint, at least federally. And not from a practical standpoint either.

    Yes, there used to be more people in this country who held to and practiced traditional Christian ethics and morals. And there was more respect for those ethics and morals and for those who held to them. Certainly there have been some issues and attitudes in this country where a significant, if not the mainstream, opinion has eroded from God’s standards over the years.

    However, when was this country ever totally following after God in their actions? When they were regularly driving the Native Americans out their lands? When the kidnapping of Africans to be forced into slavery was occurring? When those slaves were beaten, raped, and held in captivity? During the days of Jim Crow laws? Maybe when women were treated as second class citizens with many less rights than men?

    The point is, in some ways we are worse today, but in other ways we are better. But at no time has this country ever been totally committed to God, by official law or in practice. So how do you “return” to God when you were never fully with Him in the first place? (Nor have you ever totally left Him at any point.)

    I think the better phrasing would be praying for America to “turn” to God. But I believe the real effect of that happens when individuals turn to God, including those of us who are already Christians. If that were to happen in a significant amount of lives in this country, the natural outworking will be a positive one on our country and its government.

  12. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia,
    “Of course, I am not a fan of the Reformation, either….”

    Have you ever really thought this through? Are you saying that you think the Western Church would have been better off with the status quo?
    1.) Indulgences replacing repentance?
    2.) Works generated salvation?
    3.) The laity receiving only the bread at communion and not the wine?
    4.) The treasuries of merit controlled by the Pope?
    5.) Scripture and preaching in a language foreign to the congregation?

    There was much more to the Reformation other that the Sola to which you object.

  13. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    I couldn’t possibly agree with you more…well said.

  14. Xenia says:

    Rather than pray that America return to God (which as has been noted, is problematic), better to pray that Americans turn to God. Especially we can pray that the individual Americans in our circle of acquaintances turn to God.

    “…let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.”

  15. Michael says:

    Xenia @ 14… precisely.

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Why pray? – just get off our own butts and do what is pleasing to God to rebuild a society.

    What does it say about my faith if i need to pray that God do something to me?

  17. Xenia says:

    1.) Indulgences replacing repentance?

    This assumes that individual Catholic Christians never genuinely repented but exclusively relied on indulgences, which I do not believe is the case. The descendants of the Reformers (modern Protestants/ evangelicals) also make merchandise of the people, a topic we discuss here endlessly. You cannot read medieval literature without noting that repentance is a major theme.

    2.) Works generated salvation?

    We’ve beaten this horse to death, I think.

    3.) The laity receiving only the bread at communion and not the wine?

    Many children of the Reformation (some Protestants) don’t believe in the Real Presence at all, thanks to the reformer Zwingli. So yes, receiving only the Body is better than not receiving anything at all.

    4.) The treasuries of merit controlled by the Pope?

    I do not believe in the treasury of merits but this idea still hangs on in Reformation thinking where Christ’s merits are sufficient to save us. I prefer not to use the language of “merits” at all.

    5.) Scripture and preaching in a language foreign to the congregation?

    Ok, I agree with this one.

    I am not a fan of the modern, post Vatican 2 RCC.. I have considerable admiration for traditional Roman Catholicism. When I read medieval European literature I see people practicing a form of Christianity that is very similar to my own.

  18. Kevin H says:

    Just one furthering point from what I said before. I do truly believe the turning to more good in this country will happen when more individuals turn to God in the first place. I don’t think that means we should just sit on our hands and give no concern whatsoever to the current rule of law and current culture. We should be concerned about the current rule of law and culture, at the very least, to protect those who can’t protect themselves. To protect the millions of unborn who are killed. To protect the children who are made to grow up under the parenting of a gay marriage. To protect the immigrant who is only trying to protect and provide for their family and is dealt with coldly with no measure of mercy at all.

    So I think we should be concerned with these things. But again, ultimately and in the long run, I think they are dealt with most effectively when there is a significant turning to God in people’s individual lives.

  19. Jim says:

    Agree on the “return to God” fallacy, but also agree with Michael that “it doesn’t hurt to ask” re revival. There’s no formula to make it happen, but history is clear-there are times that God chooses to move in extraordinary ways among large groups of people.

  20. Papias says:

    Agreed that we should likely phrase it as “America – Turn to God” rather than a “Return to God”. The latter implies that our country was once turned to God in the first place.

    The Return to God also is a not so subtly trying to guilt us into thinking that the ills our country is experiencing is because of the Church not doing what it was supposed to be doing – whatever that was. Used to hear it all the time on Dobson when I listened to him. So his remedies usually involved sending money or getting more politically rilled up.

    Pray for Revival? – Sure. I’d like to see revival in my own life before worrying about it happening in a wider sense.

  21. Jim says:

    I think that we’re supposed to vote for Huckaby, who will fix everything.

  22. Xenia says:

    If it comes to Huckabee vs Clinton (Lord have mercy) I will vote for Huckabee because I think Ms. Clinton is an anti-christ. In fact, I will vote for whatever Salieri mediocrity the Repubs put up if it is possible. It may not be possible.

  23. Michael says:

    In my area, “returning to God” means a Republican sweep.

    In my mind it means internalizing the truths of Matt 25 and the Sermon on the Mount and living them both individually and corporately.

    That probably won’t fly tomorrow…

  24. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am voting for Hillary just to get the woman president thing out of the way. We survived the black president thing, we can move on now to the woman president thing and show the world how modern and with it we are.

    Remember, it doesn’t matter – If voting mattered, they wouldn’t let us do it.

  25. Papias says:

    Michael – Are you planning to have a Prayer thread tomorrow?

  26. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    It’s funny about claiming Christian nationalism for the early Americans. There are no Bible references in the founding documents and just general “god” type mentions – no Jesus.

    The closest we come is around 1954 when “under God” was added to the pledge and “In God we Trust” became a national motto. So was this a turn to God or our voodoo worship to ward off the powers of communism?

  27. Kevin H says:

    MLD,

    A lot of states and lower governing bodies had a good amount of Christian and biblical references and requirements, even after the founding of our country. But yes, from a federal standpoint, outside of general references to God, there is little to no reference to Christianity or the Bible in the founding documents.

  28. Michael says:

    papias,

    Not sure.
    I was thinking of an article about prayer, but the prayer thread we have doesn’t get much attention.

  29. Xenia says:

    Compare the Declaration of Independence with the sayings of Jesus.

  30. Michael says:

    Xenia…flesh that out if you have time…

  31. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    That does not make the documents any more Christian or godly than my neighborhood Chinese restaurant. Many of the fortune cookies sound like Jesus.

    Seriously, in a multicultural society do we really want to force a Christian model on citizens? This is why I say the best we can hope for and the only thing we should ask for is a revival of one – me.

  32. Dan from Georgia says:

    Funny, in that when some speak of America (or, ‘Murica, if you will), “returning to God”, they speak of a time (usually the founding fathers time, or the 1950s, and you KNOW it!), when, for example, some people groups did not enjoy the rights that they deserved to have for so long, and that was withheld from them.

    I personally would love to see another revival that would confound our so-called Christian leaders (you KNOW who they are)!

    just my $0.02.

  33. Bob says:

    “do we really want to force a Christian model on citizens?:”

    What a negative way of saying such thing. If you mean should Christian lead and promote laws which bring about order, peace and justice in the best ways possible then clearly the answer is yes, they should do such a thing.

    But if your wording is more akin to the idea of Muslims “forcing” sharia law on the nation then the answer is no.

    I for see the Judeo/Christian/Godly values as neither repressive or negative. Over the centuries they have brought a fairness and justice historically unknown in the world. Sadly they will be over run and changed by personal greed and evilness.

    An excerpt, often overlooked, from the ‘Declaration of Independence:’

    “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. ”

    “deriving their powers from the consent…”

    “whenever any sort of government becomes destructive of these ends…”

    Do not confuse salvation and peace with God from the command to institute a fair and just form of government.

  34. Bob says:

    BTW

    I believe our prayers should be more about receiving wisdom rather than holy intervention. History, including the Bible, indicates that God warns people and it is up to them to act. If we sit around idly and do nothing are we not also culpable for the sin?

  35. Jim says:

    The Declaration of Independence doesn’t sound like it was written by Jesus, or even a Christian to me. It’s author was a deist who believed in a creator, “nature’s god”.

    I do think that natural law adherents and Christians can agree that life is sacred.

    Our govt schools don’t teach what men like Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams thought of the Constitution, as the winners write history, but it was obviously folly to think that the solution to a corrupt, powerful central state was another powerful central state.

  36. Bob says:

    In Jesus’ day there was a group of people who were very religious, believed they would be the leaders who would bring in the Messiah and defeat the evil of the world. They preserved the Bible, held to very strict religious practice, minted their own coins, and referred to themselves as “Sons of Light.”

    One problem, they were separatist and are even pointed to in a parable by Jesus. While they survived for almost 200 years their visions of eschatology and elitism of faith died with them. But they did lived future generations one precious gift, they recorded and preserved God’s written word (and many other writings).

    Yes vote, caucus, promote, and do whatever can be done those Christian values which bring peace and order to a lost world!

  37. Bob says:

    Jim:

    You miss the point and lead a red herring with that one.

    If you think government has to quote scripture or refer to Jesus to be both Godly and Judeo/Christian in value then you to may be, a “Son of Light.”

  38. Jim says:

    Bob,

    I was responding to Xenia and MLD. I personally don’t believe that men are fit to govern anything but themselves.

    I’d love a return to a constitutional republic, but have no delusions that it would last any longer that ours did.

  39. Em says:

    praying for America to “return to God?” somehow i just don’t picture God hearing that prayer and declaring “wrong verb! can’t answer that one.”

    what He’d hear – IMV – is a soul with a sorrowful heart asking God to fix things down here…

    what is sad is the fact that nothing can happen in this country that will *make* the nation turn to God… as has been noted here and is declared in Scripture, disasters, looming or materialized, don’t turn nations to God… they tend to blame God…

    pray for souls, for ears to hears, eyes to see and hearts to believe what God the Holy Spirit would deliver to us

    the only hope is prayer for hearts to hear

  40. Xenia says:

    Michael, I am expecting some out-of-town relatives to arrive any time now, so I’ll just touch on it briefly, but even the first few paragraphs contain statements that are at odds with the words of Christ and the teaching of the NT:

    For example, there is nothing in the New Testament that says God (or Jefferson’s “Nature’s God”) has given men the obligation to separate from another nation if they feel oppressed, by taxes or by anything else.

    Are “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” (especially the latter) ever spoken of as “rights” in the NT?

    One more example, out of many: Jefferson claims quartering troops is a just cause to separate from Britain, but what does Christ say? He says, regarding soldiers (so the comparison is apt) to carry the soldier’s burden the extra mile.

    But I don’t want to be misunderstood. I do not think any nation can build a government based on turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, etc. The Beatitudes are a good life rule for individual Christians but could not compromise a nation’s Constitution. I think the best you can hope for in a government is fairness and honesty. I do not believe we have even this bare minimum at the national or state level today.

    I only bring this up to demonstrate that the US government was not founded on so-called Christian principles. It was founded on Enlightenment principles, which in many ways are diametrically opposed to Christianity BUT might make a pretty good basis for a secular government.

    But I think democracies are doomed to failure, ultimately.

    You know, the basic idea of Communism is rather Christian: Work hard and take only what you need. <<< This is a good motto for Christians. But what a disaster when attempted to be put into practice!

  41. Xenia says:

    “compromise” should be “comprise.”

  42. Xenia says:

    To carry the Communism idea a little further, some of the goals of basic Communism are:

    1. To share everything
    2. To abolish poverty
    3. To treat all humans equally
    4. To cooperate with each other

    All worthy, some might say godly goals. But they go against human nature and can only be implemented by brute force.

  43. Paige says:

    I have long since given up on specific prayer ‘requests’. I have thoroughly learned that I know nothing about the actual ‘will of God”…. If the Holy Spirit doesn’t re-translate my prayers ‘according the the Will of God”, via Romans 8:29, my breath is worthless.

    I pray “Your will be done. Your kingdom come on this earth, as it is done in Your heavenly realm”. I do ask for mercies in the cases of Saeed, his family and those suffering in Nepal and for persecuted Christians…. God’s mercies according to His Will. His Best for His Glory.
    In reality, I have no idea what that might look like. God’s Will is a mystery to me.

    ‘Murica; every day should be the national day of prayer. Things might improve for some.

  44. Bob says:

    Jim:

    “I personally don’t believe that men are fit to govern anything but themselves.”

    Don’t you think men governing themselves is the whole intent of God, or am I missing something?

    A problem, I allude to, with the Day of Prayer is this crying out to God for some sort of mystical and miraculous intervention in the affairs of humanity by God. When people quote the scripture, “If my people will pray…” they fail to read the whole thing, let alone the context in which it is taken.

    I do believe God clearly warns people through various means and in the end it is up to the creation, us, to deal with the injustices in governing.

    But why do we even need “Godly” laws?

    Example:

    Why outlaw abortion?

    Some would say such a law restricts the rights of women and yet they forget the reason for the law is to protect the rights of the unborn. But yet the argument is, do these unborn have rights? A Christian might say yes while an atheist would say no, not yet.

    Why outlaw weapons which, using hot gasses, propel deadly metallic objects through the air (I was trying to be nice and not say, “ban guns”)?

    Some might say, “I have the right to not be threatened by others who would harm me with such a weapon.” Additionally some might also say by banning guns we might protect and save the lives of those who are shot to death each year.

    Of course other, we gun owners, might argue that our rights were being taken away and in the end we would not only not be safer we would not reduce the number of violent deaths.

    Which of these possible laws are “Christian” and Godly?

    What’s my point?

    We should humble our selves and ask God for wisdom and then trust He is ultimately in control of the outcome.

    What would an America that “returned to God” look like? It may not have churches on every corner, but those who love Him will care about the rights of others (including the unborn) over themselves.

    Oh I did forget one thing; While I believe the unborn have rights (which includes even those yet to be physically conceived) the “undead” have none. Double tap…

    😉

  45. Xenia says:

    From Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams:

    ” And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.”

    ^^^ This is the mind of the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence.

    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mtj1&fileName=mtj1page053.db&recNum=840

    http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

  46. Bob says:

    Xenia

    What’s your point?

    Does that “revelation” invalidate the “Declaration Of Independence” and its use by God to establish His desires?

    Does it mean we should be “sons of light” also?

  47. Xenia says:

    That whole letter, in Jefferson’s own handwriting, is fascinating.

    He calls John Calvin an atheist.

  48. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    Thank you…that’s fascinating and much to chew on…

  49. Jim says:

    Xenia,

    No one who has studied the matter thinks that Jefferson was a Christian.

  50. Xenia says:

    Hi Bob,

    My point is this: it’s ridiculous to make the claim that America’s founding documents are based on Christianity, as many people insist. You can, as you have, make the claim that God has used these documents to accomplish some of His purposes.

  51. Xenia says:

    Jim, you might be surprised.

    But as far as life in America goes, it doesn’t matter if he was a Christian or not. We all have our own salvation to work out, no matter what government we have. I think the US Constitution is a good document no matter who wrote it. But corruption can ruin any good thing.

  52. Xenia says:

    (I like the US Constitution better than the Declaration of Independence.)

  53. Bob says:

    Xenia:

    The topic is, what should people who love God pray for on the Day of Prayer?

    Since none (and not just here on PP) can agree on what revival is or what it means for a nation to return to God, what should we pray for?

    It also seems to me many of the “Republican” or “Democratic” sides of the politics would be happy with the true “Kingdom of God/Heaven.”

  54. Em says:

    “But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer [Jesus] of human errors.”

    … ? … calling scaffolding artificial seems strange

    but we, too, could pray for the artificial scaffolding to fall away as we don’t need to prop God up or repair Him … wonder what Jefferson thinks of Jesus now…

  55. Em says:

    and speaking of scaffolding, which Jefferson and i are doing … 😎

    isn’t it strange how long the Capitol’s dome has been scaffolded? maybe there’s some symbolism there … dunno

  56. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Seriously, do people really pray differently on the “day of prayer” than they would any other day – or pray for something different?

    If you do, what does that say about your day to day prayer life? If you don’t, why would you even pay attention to a made up “day of prayer”?

  57. Ixtlan says:

    What does revival look like? There are many different definitions to such a question. I think revival is when people have their hearts turned toward the things of God and more importantly, seeking God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. More often we hear that the evidence of such a revival will be seen in a higher sense of morality in the church that extends to our culture. Some say revival is the manifestation of some type of supernatural demonstration. I think the first stage in revival will be seen in the turning from the desire for entertaining worship and association with celebrities to a simpler expression of worship and the development of real community. And that community will seek to associate with the poor the widows and orphans rather than a false sense of greatness and God’s presence in the weekly production that we now call church.

  58. Em says:

    “the weekly production that we now call church.” how did we come to this state of affairs, anyway… there’s something to pray for… Lord deliver us from that

  59. Em says:

    a day of prayer? a whole day? we couldn’t do it

  60. passin throgh says:

    This, from Plitico article, seems as relevant as ever. This is what happens when the church stops speaking Truth to Power. Too bad corporate $$ has completely corrupted our political system as well as “God and country” fundamentalist Christian religion:

    “Handsome, tall, and somewhat gangly, the 41-year-old Congregationalist minister bore more than a passing resemblance to Jimmy Stewart. Addressing the crowd of business leaders, Fifield delivered a passionate defense of the American system of free enterprise and a withering assault on its perceived enemies in Franklin D. Roosevelt’s administration. Decrying the New Deal’s “encroachment upon our American freedoms,” the minister listed a litany of sins committed by the Democratic government, ranging from its devaluation of currency to its disrespect for the Supreme Court. Singling out the regulatory state for condemnation, he denounced “the multitude of federal agencies attached to the executive branch” and warned ominously of “the menace of autocracy approaching through bureaucracy.”

    It all sounds familiar enough today, but Fifield’s audience of executives was stunned. Over the preceding decade, as America first descended into and then crawled its way out of the Great Depression, the these titans of industry had been told, time and time again, that they were to blame for the nation’s downfall. Fifield, in contrast, insisted that they were the source of its salvation.

    They just needed to do one thing: Get religion.

    Fifield told the industrialists that clergymen would be crucial in regaining the upper hand in their war with Roosevelt. As men of God, ministers could voice the same conservative complaints as business leaders, but without any suspicion that they were motivated solely by self-interest. They could push back against claims, made often by Roosevelt and his allies, that business had somehow sinned and the welfare state was doing God’s work. The assembled industrialists gave a rousing amen. “When he had finished,” a journalist noted, “rumors report that the N.A.M. applause could be heard in Hoboken.”

    It was a watershed moment—the beginning of a movement that would advance over the 1940s and early 1950s a new blend of conservative religion, economics and politics that one observer aptly anointed “Christian libertarianism.” Fifield and like-minded ministers saw Christianity and capitalism as inextricably intertwined, and argued that spreading the gospel of one required spreading the gospel of the other. The two systems had been linked before, of course, but always in terms of their shared social characteristics. Fifield’s innovation was his insistence that Christianity and capitalism were political soul mates, first and foremost.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/04/corporate-america-invented-religious-right-conservative-roosevelt-princeton-117030.html#ixzz3ZQ4frzP0

  61. filbertz says:

    America will return to God if it is a boomerang He has thrown.

  62. filbertz says:

    Revival looks a lot like CPR on a dying human–breath and blood.

  63. mike says:

    Revival is personal first, body of Christ second.
    We are not theocratic Israel. There is no such thing as National Repentance or revival.
    Just another catchy way for Christians to be whipped up into meaningless and moon bat activity that makes us and christianity look pathetically deluded idiots.
    -mike

  64. filbertz says:

    Overall, I will largely ignore the NDP for many of the reasons stated above by others. Further, it is contrary to my understanding of the nature of prayer as taught and modeled by biblical writers and characters. Finally, I’ll largely ignore it because I’m a rather lousy Christian.

  65. London says:

    And a slacker 😉

  66. filbertz says:

    that goes without saying… 😉

  67. Jim says:

    …”new blend of conservative religion, economics and politics”..

    The author has no sense of history, as the clergy were basically agents of the state for 1300 years. When their usefulness waned, the state focused on academia.

  68. Bob says:

    EM wrote:

    ““the weekly production that we now call church.” how did we come to this state of affairs, anyway… there’s something to pray for… Lord deliver us from that”

    How about instead of praying we just do it daily????

    Sometimes I think, no I know, when most people say, “I’ll pray for it…” I go to someone else because they really won’t do anything.

    “Lord teach us to pray…”

    “…give us this day…”

  69. UnCCed@UnCCed.com says:

    I thoroughly enjoy the irony the Jesus peeps were thoroughly ignored by Republican puppets (oops!, I mean mainline American Christians), who in turn became those who do the ignoring/hypocritical judging, etc.
    IMHO, I think revival is already occurring, but God has chosen (again) to reach out to those ignored by the religious, who seem to only care about protecting the status quo (again), and (if they were honest) don’t give a dam about those are repenting to Jesus and following His “way, truth, and life,” but all they want to do is look for ways they (those who are getting “saved”) violate their traditions, political whoredom, personal preferences, etc.
    Gimme a break.
    The fact that SO MANY “seeking revival” have been out-maneuvered by Jesus to the extent they haven’t even noticed it, has been VERY interesting to me.
    By the way, some CCs are becoming more and more a part of this work in various ways (following Jesus as opposed to idols), I would list them here and how they are carrying on what I consider to be the real work of CC, but I don’t want to out them, I’m being very serious.
    Believe me, they have already and continue to speak in ways which return piles of fear and ignorance, yet they continue to endure.
    Also, though my ignorance of other ministries is still shrinking, I have been delighted by some parts of certain denominations joining in.

  70. UnCCed@UnCCed.com says:

    While CCs continue to replicate right down the street from each other, many of them just cloning each other and thereby becoming irrelevant, as God CLEARLY moves through a plethora of other ministries in their areas, the fact all they can do is throw tantrums (I’ve heard MANY in “leadership” meetings) proves their irrelevance, well in part.
    While I won’t apologize for this (I’ve suffered enough trying to lovingly speak to “leaders” about their carnality and wasted energies), AND certain CC leaders have very publicly spoken about we can learn from other works of God (though largely ignored), I am sorry to see this.
    Unlike the gatekeepers of old wine skins, I don’t revel is seeing this, calling it out, nor do I relish a movement I’ve loved for decades spend more time on their phylacteries than keeping humble and flexible before God.
    It’s so sad a leadership model intended to allow a man the flexibility to do church outside the box has been twisted into a prison of narcissism, producing mutations resembling disciples only in name.

  71. spent last evening with a lifelong friend and her son, musicians, talented, songwriters

    he’s fixated on “the mark of the beast”, that it’s a human technology interface where “they” will be able to influence and control our every thought, manipulate us into buying what “thy” want us to buy, rewarding us with extended health, human genome solutions to grievous diseases, and that once someone “takes the mark” there will be no turning back, no way of salvation even if they change their mind…

    what a waste of a talented mind to be so consumed with such things

    I told him something he had never considered, that The Revelation was an apocalyptic writing aimed as a full on swipe against the Rome of the political prisoner / writer’s time, positioning Jesus as greater than the whole thing, an encouragement to the Jesus followers against what felt like an indomitable and pervasive culture.

    Hopefully he will find balance, comfort and a true mission. I asked him to take a beak from “the mark of the beast” and spend the next few months in the 4Gospels, focused on Jesus, seeking to be immersed in Him, emulating Him, taking to heart everything He said & did.

    On this National Day of Prayer I pray for a return to Jesus and an abandonment of the unneeded and unhealthy obsession with End Times, culture wars & “Taking Back America”

    I pray this in Jesus’ Name, in His power, as His representative

  72. Nonnie says:

    Phil. 3: 20 & 21 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

    2 Corinthians 5:20
    Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

    Mat. 6:19-13
    In this manner, therefore, pray:
    Our Father in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your name.
    Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done
    On earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread.
    And forgive us our debts,
    As we forgive our debtors.
    And do not lead us into temptation,
    But deliver us from the evil one.
    For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen

  73. Alex says:

    Well, the Evangelicals sects like Calvary Chapel certainly aren’t praying for 1 Corinthians 5:12 because they do the exact opposite which is their true Doctrine and Belief.

  74. Em says:

    praying for God the Holy Spirit to keep our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus and for our number to increase

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